Might I coin my own phrase? 'Never Safe For Wallet', that's rather closer to the truth I think.
Your average user in a F2P game spends considerably less than 5 dollars a month.
So either you think 5 dollars a month is very unreasonable (And therefore, a subscription is =3= times as unreasonable), or you have an interesting definition of the word 'never'.
nope, taht is a lie and you know it, if the average would only spend less then 5 dolar sa month we would never have that much games going for F2P, the average spend more then 15 monthly, and we always ahve the competitive crowd who spend a lot more then that to stay on top, course you can argue some don't spend anything, but at the same time some spend well over thousands to keep playing. but tossing that aside, the average is not only 5.
also if what I remember from defiance CS they never really sold anything there, course I would still need to play now, last time I played it was alpha, it was a cool game, some good things other no so much but in overall a nice one, but I enver saw me paying to play a monthly fee plus DLCs around, that never sold to me, I always played the monthly free with expansions happening without extras fees. but I consider this game more like something to pop in do some shooting, maybe hunt some arkfalls and be done, nothing else
Might I coin my own phrase? 'Never Safe For Wallet', that's rather closer to the truth I think.
Your average user in a F2P game spends considerably less than 5 dollars a month.
So either you think 5 dollars a month is very unreasonable (And therefore, a subscription is =3= times as unreasonable), or you have an interesting definition of the word 'never'.
nope, taht is a lie and you know it, if the average would only spend less then 5 dolar sa month we would never have that much games going for F2P, the average spend more then 15 monthly, and we always ahve the competitive crowd who spend a lot more then that to stay on top, course you can argue some don't spend anything, but at the same time some spend well over thousands to keep playing. but tossing that aside, the average is not only 5.
also if what I remember from defiance CS they never really sold anything there, course I would still need to play now, last time I played it was alpha, it was a cool game, some good things other no so much but in overall a nice one, but I enver saw me paying to play a monthly fee plus DLCs around, that never sold to me, I always played the monthly free with expansions happening without extras fees. but I consider this game more like something to pop in do some shooting, maybe hunt some arkfalls and be done, nothing else
Actually it's been shown on many different stats, many different times though many different companies and is right. The average user spends very little. The mode spend nothing, average is a little, and a tiny fraction spend a lot.
2 million at an average of $5/month is far far far more than 200,000 at $15/month.
Again the stats have been reported here many times.
Use swtor's last stats as an example. 2 million f2p and 500,000 subs. $300 million in the CS alone. We'll just use f2p because subs scew it a bit but see edit below. $150 million / 2 million = $150/year = $12.50 per month Average Revenue Per User. Not the $5 stated but less than $15.
- Edit - undoubtedly many of the subs bought in the CS as well making it more than 2 million players so they paid even less. But counting the subs as well makes things murky.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I don't understand. So are they admitting that Defiance, up to this point, has been a rip off? Because if it is Now Safe For Wallets, doesn't that imply that it was not safe before?
Yes. And what is the problem of admitting that if they are going to make more money?
long term harm on the industry's image...that's my guess.
I mean what's the problem with smoking if I'm enjoying it?
Exactly ... if you have full information, and decide that you would rather die young with painful lung cancel in exchange of some enjoyment, what is the problem?
And it is not like a single company needs to care about the image of the whole industry?
Did it even affect the amount of people that are playing the game? It didn't even break the steam top 100 list for being F2P, or is there a lot of people playing the game in the non steam client?
Originally posted by Panther2103 Did it even affect the amount of people that are playing the game? It didn't even break the steam top 100 list for being F2P, or is there a lot of people playing the game in the non steam client?
That's the plan I guess, increasing the playerbase. Can't say if it's working or not, haven't played on the last week, but before that date there was a notice-able increase in player count (probably they went back for the Season 2 content like I did). Actually the real influx is gonna happen when the show will launch as well, I think.
"It didn't even break the steam" can't say either, wasn't in the kitchen today... Ok, seriously, folks should finally detach themselves from those crap client/launcher/achievment BS's. Glyph included, might I add.
On a sidenote, the NSFW ad is great, kudos for the marketing team. Just look at this very thread, still going and quoting statistics etc., under an f2p model which has none of those issues peeps are mentioning. I'm not saying those are invalid facts or arguments, just that those are not fit for Defiance's model. And still, the thread is rolling on, just because of the NSFW. Great job, Trion
Defiance f2p is pretty decent so far. Still buggy as hell and the new model attracts a lot of hackers in pvp, but I haven't felt the need to pay for the minor gain to exp/resources or extra char/loadout slots that the patron pass gives.
That said, you could pick up Defiance before the conversion for $3 at gamestop and they had a free trial. If that didn't attract the impulse buyers, I don't know how successful this is going to be, especially after they stated that new DLC content would be free.
They can't exactly stick new classes behind a $50 paywall like they do in Rift this time ;P Unique-looking costumes, guns, and cars can probably keep it afloat, but they're going to need to entice people with something to start generating real profit.
Certainly some cash shops are better than others, we have all seen that. It was more the basic idea that a cash shop could be safe for wallets that I found rather amusing.
For all I know Defiance will not be a huge offender in the scamming that we see in many cash shops, this was about the statement not that MMO.
The general trend in cash shops over the years has been getting worse. Has any on here not seen how they mostly start well and end up selling must have, gameplay altering items within a year? The gambling on boxes, stars, diamonds or whatever, they often become casinos in all but name.
I don't think of the posters on here as the kind of person who presses YES before thinking, but you don't have to be stupid to do so. We have had many threads from posters on how they have been caught out. It is usually a 'once bittern' story, they may know never to go down that route again but had their wallet hit bad in the process. An assumption we make is that they are our age, these are often going to be guys in their teens. If you had been tempted like that then, can you say you would not be spending your parents money?
For all I know Defiance will not be a huge offender in the scamming that we see in many cash shops, this was about the statement not that MMO.
The general trend in cash shops over the years has been getting worse. Has any on here not seen how they mostly start well and end up selling must have, gameplay altering items within a year?
Yep, that's why I wrote that it was a great ad campaign idea, the statement itself bring in lots of emotions, raising different opinions, etc.
As for the "cash shops within a year" part, Defiance was b2p, with a cash shop, for a year and I don't see any game-breaking stuff in it, which means a lot, considering it's a shooter. Shooters are the weakest in this subject, shooters are slipping towards p2w easily, it's almost a built-in feature... "shooter with cash shop? lol, I'm sure it's massive p2w" is a common belief, and for the most cases it's a true one.
Defiance's f2p is simply remove the mandatory box purchase and giving the game for free. No changes in the mechanics, the shop is the same (cosmetics and convenience) as it was. For former players, there's the option now to get Patron boosts, and for newcomers there are a few restrictions, but nothing that would affect their gameplay. It's pretty much as cool as Rift's model was.
edit: just for the record, I'm not a fan, I've played maybe 2-3 months total with Defiance I just acknowledge Trion's work with the model.
They can't exactly stick new classes behind a $50 paywall like they do in Rift this time ;P Unique-looking costumes, guns, and cars can probably keep it afloat, but they're going to need to entice people with something to start generating real profit.
The question is whether it is actually a good shooter. There are so many f2p shooters out there that they need a compelling reason to attract an audience.
The question is whether it is actually a good shooter. There are so many f2p shooters out there that they need a compelling reason to attract an audience.
And if you want a fresh f2p review, mmohut made one after the f2p switch. It's more or less accurate and focusing onto the review itself, so no jokes on the side like in HL's case http://youtu.be/GvGKlSRagD0
Imo it's better than Firefall. Can't compare it to PS2 directly because that's full-on pvp, while Defiance is pve and story-focused. I had much more fun in Defiance, but for the shooter part I think it's not better, just on par (or a bit below) with PS2. But it has much better guns and you can roam around in vehicles without blowing up in every minute. True, only on ground, there are no air travel / combat in Defiance (not game issue, it's in the lore, besides some low-altitude carriers everyone is travelling on the wheels).
Originally posted by Aeonblades While I agree with the OP that most F2P games are highway robbery style business models such as NW, GW2, LOTRO, SWTOR, etc. Rift is actually the only F2P game I have played where spending no money at all was completely viable. If anyone can do F2P right, it's Trion. It's one of their few remaining strong suits.
I can't comprehend how is GW2 a F2P robbery. I spent 2000+ hours in the game without spending a cash at all and I have my legendary.
On topic. Defiance is fine as F2P, you can also upgrade your free account to owner with only $9. Owner status is permanent.
Maybe it is because you spent 2000+ hours in game that you have you legendary and never spent any cash? Many players take the short cut route and pay. Also 'on topic', I was not making a thread about Defiance, I don't have a clue what its cash shop is like, it is just the slogan that made me laugh.
I am not sure that Shooters are worse than MMO's, they don't have gambling for example. It does very much depend on the MMO, but over time the more decent cash shops always go sour. Lotro is a case in point, one of the best cash shops which inside two years became an example of bad practice.
Most people thought Rift had a good cash shop, yet a poster on here says that classes are now behind a 50$ paywall? They never stay decent guys that's the problem.
Most people thought Rift had a good cash shop, yet a poster on here says that classes are now behind a 50$ paywall? They never stay decent guys that's the problem.
Nothing stays decent if all it takes is one person telling a half truth to cause it to be judged that way. If putting new content behind a pay wall is considered a sign of a game being deceptive or bad....what does that say about p2p expansions ?
Most people thought Rift had a good cash shop, yet a poster on here says that classes are now behind a 50$ paywall? They never stay decent guys that's the problem.
Nothing stays decent if all it takes is one person telling a half truth to cause it to be judged that way. If putting new content behind a pay wall is considered a sign of a game being deceptive or bad....what does that say about p2p expansions ?
+1.
Rift has no 'classes', just souls. With the SL expansion (which you don't get automatically as a free player) the game got 4 additional souls. Then in last May, with BB update/dlc/mini-expansion arrived 4 more souls.
It's not for free obviously, and as DamonVile wrote it says nothing about deceptive or foul practice... also not sure about that 50, I think it's somewhere around 20-25 dollars/euros. Standard dlc / expansion price I guess.
Maybe it is because you spent 2000+ hours in game that you have you legendary and never spent any cash? Many players take the short cut route and pay. Also 'on topic', I was not making a thread about Defiance, I don't have a clue what its cash shop is like, it is just the slogan that made me laugh.
I am not sure that Shooters are worse than MMO's, they don't have gambling for example. It does very much depend on the MMO, but over time the more decent cash shops always go sour. Lotro is a case in point, one of the best cash shops which inside two years became an example of bad practice.
Most people thought Rift had a good cash shop, yet a poster on here says that classes are now behind a 50$ paywall? They never stay decent guys that's the problem.
That's just an option, not forced robbery, am I right?
On Rift, it's called an expansion. Do you ever play a P2P mmo that give expansions for free? Wow, paywall even in P2P games haha..
Most people thought Rift had a good cash shop, yet a poster on here says that classes are now behind a 50$ paywall? They never stay decent guys that's the problem.
Nothing stays decent if all it takes is one person telling a half truth to cause it to be judged that way. If putting new content behind a pay wall is considered a sign of a game being deceptive or bad....what does that say about p2p expansions ?
+1.
Rift has no 'classes', just souls. With the SL expansion (which you don't get automatically as a free player) the game got 4 additional souls. Then in last May, with BB update/dlc/mini-expansion arrived 4 more souls.
It's not for free obviously, and as DamonVile wrote it says nothing about deceptive or foul practice... also not sure about that 50, I think it's somewhere around 20-25 dollars/euros. Standard dlc / expansion price I guess.
I left Rift before it went F2P and should say I had a great time there. So I know that souls are in effect subclasses, which you can swap between within your 'main class' grouping. So it would seem some subclasses were put behind a paywall? I should point out that most players I hear from say that Rift still has a one of the more decent cash shops. But these days what does that mean?
To me decent cash shop new content is zone expansions, new skill line within existing classes, housing, that sort of thing. You may notice from that list I am happy that players have to pay to get more from the game, it is just what they need to pay for which I question. New classes often are an issue, as they tend to be the new best thing. They are hardly top of my list when it comes to bad cash shops, but they are on it.
A separate issue, but we have also moved from a position where you buy it all, the expansion, to a position were you pick an mix. I can understand some players seeing that as an advantage, but when you pay one fee and get the new zone, the new characters, the new whatever, that is the fairer system.
The question is whether it is actually a good shooter. There are so many f2p shooters out there that they need a compelling reason to attract an audience.
And if you want a fresh f2p review, mmohut made one after the f2p switch. It's more or less accurate and focusing onto the review itself, so no jokes on the side like in HL's case http://youtu.be/GvGKlSRagD0
Imo it's better than Firefall. Can't compare it to PS2 directly because that's full-on pvp, while Defiance is pve and story-focused. I had much more fun in Defiance, but for the shooter part I think it's not better, just on par (or a bit below) with PS2. But it has much better guns and you can roam around in vehicles without blowing up in every minute. True, only on ground, there are no air travel / combat in Defiance (not game issue, it's in the lore, besides some low-altitude carriers everyone is travelling on the wheels).
You do peak my interests .. may be i will check it out this weekend since it is F2P. I watched the pilot of the show and wasn't too impressed, but who knows, let's give the game a spin.
I really enjoyed this game when it first released, but it had the longevity of your average single-player game, which was a shame. I see no reason to return.
btw, is the show still going or was it cancelled? It was mediocre.
I really enjoyed this game when it first released, but it had the longevity of your average single-player game, which was a shame. I see no reason to return.
btw, is the show still going or was it cancelled? It was mediocre.
That's the whole point of the f2p switch - and with it the reason of returning: season 2 will start within a week I think (edit: just checked, 6 days from now). The lead-in story missions are already in the game.
Btw, imo season 1 wasn't mediocre, actually it was pretty decent, which means a lot considering SyFy's average quality
Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by ScotMost people thought Rift had a good cash shop, yet a poster on here says that classes are now behind a 50$ paywall? They never stay decent guys that's the problem.
Nothing stays decent if all it takes is one person telling a half truth to cause it to be judged that way. If putting new content behind a pay wall is considered a sign of a game being deceptive or bad....what does that say about p2p expansions ?
It says that P2P games are far more honest since they aren't claiming to be free. Scot hit the nail on the head. F2P is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get, or how long before it changes.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I really enjoyed this game when it first released, but it had the longevity of your average single-player game, which was a shame. I see no reason to return.
btw, is the show still going or was it cancelled? It was mediocre.
That's the whole point of the f2p switch - and with it the reason of returning: season 2 will start within a week I think (edit: just checked, 6 days from now). The lead-in story missions are already in the game.
Btw, imo season 1 wasn't mediocre, actually it was pretty decent, which means a lot considering SyFy's average quality
It was no BSG. it was the bad kind of absurdist Sci-fi that I hate. But each to their own. Unsubtle characters, cliched storylines, any arc given way to levered-in shocks. It was everything that was bad about sci-fi.
Comments
nope, taht is a lie and you know it, if the average would only spend less then 5 dolar sa month we would never have that much games going for F2P, the average spend more then 15 monthly, and we always ahve the competitive crowd who spend a lot more then that to stay on top, course you can argue some don't spend anything, but at the same time some spend well over thousands to keep playing. but tossing that aside, the average is not only 5.
also if what I remember from defiance CS they never really sold anything there, course I would still need to play now, last time I played it was alpha, it was a cool game, some good things other no so much but in overall a nice one, but I enver saw me paying to play a monthly fee plus DLCs around, that never sold to me, I always played the monthly free with expansions happening without extras fees. but I consider this game more like something to pop in do some shooting, maybe hunt some arkfalls and be done, nothing else
My wallet is safe... Trion doesn't know where it is and if I stupidly choose to tell them where it is, that's my fault, not theirs.
Those of you that have this need to purchase your way through a game are the ones with need of a spending limit... not the rest of us.
Actually it's been shown on many different stats, many different times though many different companies and is right. The average user spends very little. The mode spend nothing, average is a little, and a tiny fraction spend a lot.
2 million at an average of $5/month is far far far more than 200,000 at $15/month.
Again the stats have been reported here many times.
Use swtor's last stats as an example. 2 million f2p and 500,000 subs. $300 million in the CS alone. We'll just use f2p because subs scew it a bit but see edit below. $150 million / 2 million = $150/year = $12.50 per month Average Revenue Per User. Not the $5 stated but less than $15.
- Edit - undoubtedly many of the subs bought in the CS as well making it more than 2 million players so they paid even less. But counting the subs as well makes things murky.
Exactly ... if you have full information, and decide that you would rather die young with painful lung cancel in exchange of some enjoyment, what is the problem?
And it is not like a single company needs to care about the image of the whole industry?
That's the plan I guess, increasing the playerbase. Can't say if it's working or not, haven't played on the last week, but before that date there was a notice-able increase in player count (probably they went back for the Season 2 content like I did). Actually the real influx is gonna happen when the show will launch as well, I think.
"It didn't even break the steam" can't say either, wasn't in the kitchen today...
Ok, seriously, folks should finally detach themselves from those crap client/launcher/achievment BS's. Glyph included, might I add.
On a sidenote, the NSFW ad is great, kudos for the marketing team. Just look at this very thread, still going and quoting statistics etc., under an f2p model which has none of those issues peeps are mentioning. I'm not saying those are invalid facts or arguments, just that those are not fit for Defiance's model. And still, the thread is rolling on, just because of the NSFW. Great job, Trion
Defiance f2p is pretty decent so far. Still buggy as hell and the new model attracts a lot of hackers in pvp, but I haven't felt the need to pay for the minor gain to exp/resources or extra char/loadout slots that the patron pass gives.
That said, you could pick up Defiance before the conversion for $3 at gamestop and they had a free trial. If that didn't attract the impulse buyers, I don't know how successful this is going to be, especially after they stated that new DLC content would be free.
They can't exactly stick new classes behind a $50 paywall like they do in Rift this time ;P Unique-looking costumes, guns, and cars can probably keep it afloat, but they're going to need to entice people with something to start generating real profit.
Certainly some cash shops are better than others, we have all seen that. It was more the basic idea that a cash shop could be safe for wallets that I found rather amusing.
For all I know Defiance will not be a huge offender in the scamming that we see in many cash shops, this was about the statement not that MMO.
The general trend in cash shops over the years has been getting worse. Has any on here not seen how they mostly start well and end up selling must have, gameplay altering items within a year? The gambling on boxes, stars, diamonds or whatever, they often become casinos in all but name.
I don't think of the posters on here as the kind of person who presses YES before thinking, but you don't have to be stupid to do so. We have had many threads from posters on how they have been caught out. It is usually a 'once bittern' story, they may know never to go down that route again but had their wallet hit bad in the process. An assumption we make is that they are our age, these are often going to be guys in their teens. If you had been tempted like that then, can you say you would not be spending your parents money?
Yep, that's why I wrote that it was a great ad campaign idea, the statement itself bring in lots of emotions, raising different opinions, etc.
As for the "cash shops within a year" part, Defiance was b2p, with a cash shop, for a year
and I don't see any game-breaking stuff in it, which means a lot, considering it's a shooter. Shooters are the weakest in this subject, shooters are slipping towards p2w easily, it's almost a built-in feature... "shooter with cash shop? lol, I'm sure it's massive p2w" is a common belief, and for the most cases it's a true one.
Defiance's f2p is simply remove the mandatory box purchase and giving the game for free. No changes in the mechanics, the shop is the same (cosmetics and convenience) as it was. For former players, there's the option now to get Patron boosts, and for newcomers there are a few restrictions, but nothing that would affect their gameplay. It's pretty much as cool as Rift's model was.
edit: just for the record, I'm not a fan, I've played maybe 2-3 months total with Defiance
I just acknowledge Trion's work with the model.
The question is whether it is actually a good shooter. There are so many f2p shooters out there that they need a compelling reason to attract an audience.
It's pretty good actually. HL did a nice fun video of the game a year ago: http://youtu.be/ryzJnhgtNQU
And if you want a fresh f2p review, mmohut made one after the f2p switch. It's more or less accurate and focusing onto the review itself, so no jokes on the side like in HL's case
http://youtu.be/GvGKlSRagD0
Imo it's better than Firefall. Can't compare it to PS2 directly because that's full-on pvp, while Defiance is pve and story-focused. I had much more fun in Defiance, but for the shooter part I think it's not better, just on par (or a bit below) with PS2. But it has much better guns
and you can roam around in vehicles without blowing up in every minute. True, only on ground, there are no air travel / combat in Defiance (not game issue, it's in the lore, besides some low-altitude carriers everyone is travelling on the wheels).
I can't comprehend how is GW2 a F2P robbery. I spent 2000+ hours in the game without spending a cash at all and I have my legendary.
On topic. Defiance is fine as F2P, you can also upgrade your free account to owner with only $9. Owner status is permanent.
Maybe it is because you spent 2000+ hours in game that you have you legendary and never spent any cash? Many players take the short cut route and pay. Also 'on topic', I was not making a thread about Defiance, I don't have a clue what its cash shop is like, it is just the slogan that made me laugh.
I am not sure that Shooters are worse than MMO's, they don't have gambling for example. It does very much depend on the MMO, but over time the more decent cash shops always go sour. Lotro is a case in point, one of the best cash shops which inside two years became an example of bad practice.
Most people thought Rift had a good cash shop, yet a poster on here says that classes are now behind a 50$ paywall? They never stay decent guys that's the problem.
Nothing stays decent if all it takes is one person telling a half truth to cause it to be judged that way. If putting new content behind a pay wall is considered a sign of a game being deceptive or bad....what does that say about p2p expansions ?
+1.
Rift has no 'classes', just souls. With the SL expansion (which you don't get automatically as a free player) the game got 4 additional souls. Then in last May, with BB update/dlc/mini-expansion arrived 4 more souls.
It's not for free obviously, and as DamonVile wrote it says nothing about deceptive or foul practice... also not sure about that 50, I think it's somewhere around 20-25 dollars/euros. Standard dlc / expansion price I guess.
That's just an option, not forced robbery, am I right?
On Rift, it's called an expansion. Do you ever play a P2P mmo that give expansions for free? Wow, paywall even in P2P games haha..
I left Rift before it went F2P and should say I had a great time there. So I know that souls are in effect subclasses, which you can swap between within your 'main class' grouping. So it would seem some subclasses were put behind a paywall? I should point out that most players I hear from say that Rift still has a one of the more decent cash shops. But these days what does that mean?
To me decent cash shop new content is zone expansions, new skill line within existing classes, housing, that sort of thing. You may notice from that list I am happy that players have to pay to get more from the game, it is just what they need to pay for which I question. New classes often are an issue, as they tend to be the new best thing. They are hardly top of my list when it comes to bad cash shops, but they are on it.
A separate issue, but we have also moved from a position where you buy it all, the expansion, to a position were you pick an mix. I can understand some players seeing that as an advantage, but when you pay one fee and get the new zone, the new characters, the new whatever, that is the fairer system.
You do peak my interests .. may be i will check it out this weekend since it is F2P. I watched the pilot of the show and wasn't too impressed, but who knows, let's give the game a spin.
I really enjoyed this game when it first released, but it had the longevity of your average single-player game, which was a shame. I see no reason to return.
btw, is the show still going or was it cancelled? It was mediocre.
That's the whole point of the f2p switch - and with it the reason of returning: season 2 will start within a week I think (edit: just checked, 6 days from now). The lead-in story missions are already in the game.
Btw, imo season 1 wasn't mediocre, actually it was pretty decent, which means a lot considering SyFy's average quality
It says that P2P games are far more honest since they aren't claiming to be free. Scot hit the nail on the head. F2P is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get, or how long before it changes.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
It was no BSG. it was the bad kind of absurdist Sci-fi that I hate. But each to their own. Unsubtle characters, cliched storylines, any arc given way to levered-in shocks. It was everything that was bad about sci-fi.