The game economy is directly linked with the real world economy (something that should not exist if your goal is to make a perfect game). If all it just shows further the purpose of why NCSoft made it...
It is the reason and difference between companies like Blizzard and NCsoft. Blizzard understands this better than NCsoft and it is why WOW is going strong now decade+. If all NCsoft has only lost the trust of many who once bought Guild Wars 2 and this is only further harming their reputation and their products. I'm just glad they introduced this on launch so players can make their own choices now than regret later.
I've only bought one product from NCSoft and that was Aion. Sadly, Aion was a decent MMORPG, but 5½ years from now I'm sure most know where it stands today.
Eve does the same thing and has been been around as long as wow, so not sure if your argument holds up there. In fact, its widely accepted that eve has one of the best economies yet it has the same system in place as ws.
If gold has any value in this game (and there isnt other currencies, like in PoE for example), then yes, its pay to win.
So those who are able to afford to buy the game this month have an advantage over those who have to wait until next month to afford it. They will be a whole month ahead of all those people.
And what of those who can afford to play more often? If I can afford to take a week off work to play that will certainly give me an advantage over those who can't. What about someone who can "afford" to be unemployed because someone else pays the bills? How much advantage does that buy them?
If I hire the kid across the street to mow my lawn I can use that two hours to farm gold. so I give him $20 for the work and he turns around and spends that $20 on a months subscription to Wildstar because he happens to play also. He gets a month of game time and I get more play time. How exactly is that different than if I gave some other kid a $20 CREDD for game time in exchange for some in game gold that makes it so I don't have to grind for gold a few nights out of the month but instead I can just raid with my guild? he gets a month of game time and I get more of time playing the game the way I want to play it.
CREDD is not pay to win. It is a time shifter. One person trades real money for someone elses time in game. That time taking the form of gold that would other wise require time spent grinding. The same thing goes for things like an exp boost potion. All it does is shift the time frame in which someone will be able to access a certain part or aspect of the game. Time shifters are not pay to win because MMOs are not a race. If you think it is you are playing it wrong. In a race everyone has to start out at the same time and in equal conditions. and races always have an end. MMOs, always have new people coming into the game at later points in time and there is not set end condition. Time shifters don't matter because everyone has access to what they offer regardless if they pay or not.
Real pay to win is when someone can buy an advantage THAT CANNOT BE REASONABLY OBTAINED OTHERWISE. Everybody can get gold in the game. you simply have to choose if you will get it by spending time playing or if you will trade that time for real money. But if the only way to get the 'Ring of Win' is either from the cash shop or getting it from a 1 in 1billion chance of a random drop from Boss Ultimate then yeah, that is pay to win, because while you can get it in game, in theory there is not a reasonable chance that you will actually get that lucky. Leaving the only reliable way to obtain the 'Ring of Win' being from the cash shop.
Now understand that I am not in anyway an NCSOFT fan. Their cash shops skate the razor's edge of pay to win all the time. They treat the NA market like an after thought constantly. The have made changes to the veteran's program of Aion that substantially reduced the value of my account in that game in order to "encourage" the repurchasing of items that were later added to the cash shop of that game. A practice that I would characterize as entirely unethical. I don't like NCSoft at all and while they do produce high quality titles I would still recommend that people be cautious in dealing with them.
But... While I fully expect NCSoft to find a way to screw things up on Wildstar and probably turn it into a pay to win wonderland someday, today is not that day and CREDD is not the means by which they do it. CREDD is fine. Just keep your eyes open for what comes next.
Originally posted by syriinx Originally posted by KopogeroSo, basically a player who chooses to spend more $ will be easily bulking up ingame currency, thus the economy won't be existant.
You do realize WoW has a similar thing, right? You can buy a pet in the store and sell it in game for money.
Yet you play WoW still don't you? Or at least have since it was introduced a few years ago?
Haha now that is very interesting. Kind of blows this whole thread up in the ops face
The game economy is directly linked with the real world economy (something that should not exist if your goal is to make a perfect game). If all it just shows further the purpose of why NCSoft made it...
It is the reason and difference between companies like Blizzard and NCsoft. Blizzard understands this better than NCsoft and it is why WOW is going strong now decade+. If all NCsoft has only lost the trust of many who once bought Guild Wars 2 and this is only further harming their reputation and their products. I'm just glad they introduced this on launch so players can make their own choices now than regret later.
If that's your problem why not lay it out that way in the first place? Why use begrudging terms like P2W?
Blizzard is selling pre-made toons now, so I don't know about Blizzard having some higher standard, it's ironic coming form someone who was just complaining about another company introducing something that supports P2W... to say blizzard knows better...Not that I care what Blizzard does or if they cross that line or not, I don't. However you seem to...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The game economy is directly linked with the real world economy (something that should not exist if your goal is to make a perfect game). If all it just shows further the purpose of why NCSoft made it...
It is the reason and difference between companies like Blizzard and NCsoft. Blizzard understands this better than NCsoft and it is why WOW is going strong now decade+. If all NCsoft has only lost the trust of many who once bought Guild Wars 2 and this is only further harming their reputation and their products. I'm just glad they introduced this on launch so players can make their own choices now than regret later.
I've only bought one product from NCSoft and that was Aion. Sadly, Aion was a decent MMORPG, but 5½ years from now I'm sure most know where it stands today.
So what your telling me is paying 60 bucks for a max level character is not a bad move on bliz's part. This is just a way for those who do not have money for a sub to play the game by buying the time with ingame gold.
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
Most free gamers see P2W as having to pay, period. You may think that p2w means buying and unfair advantage, that is a lie. As more and more of these post reach these forums you will come to realize what p2w really means. If a game makes them pay for anything it is pay 2 win. Because free gamers must churn out gold to buy C.R.E.E.D. in order to buy game time, that makes it pay to win. Not being absolutely free makes a game p2w.
p2w = p2p. (Nothing more, nothing less.)
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
So, basically a player who chooses to spend more $ will be easily bulking up ingame currency, thus the economy won't be existant.
You do realize WoW has a similar thing, right? You can buy a pet in the store and sell it in game for money.
Yet you play WoW still don't you? Or at least have since it was introduced a few years ago?
And it is one of the many reasons why WOW has been on the decline for couple years straight. The difference though between Blizzard and NCSoft is that Blizzard only did it to one or few specific "pets/mounts" while NCsoft did it to all items that can be bought with ingame currency, non the less yes Blizzard pushed the button, but many many years since WOW existed unlike WildStar.
WOW has took $50 most from me in the last year½. I'm just grateful I get to enjoy Diablo 3 for 10-11 days for free with the WOW's promotion and clearly one of the main reasons I have not touched their trading card game. I'm also 60-70% certain I won't be buying WOW:WoD.
Blizzard is the best example for all companies that the longlivity of their product and if its grows or diminish solely depends on what kind of choices they decide to do. No one else is responsible for the failure of one's game but those responsibile for it.
Also some of the posters above who complained at being at disadvantage in a given game for being unable or not willing to spend as much time as they would like on it and choose to do "other activities" and just fork the cash and get the currency ingame quickly and easily that's simply does not work..Games are meant to be virtual, fantasy, persistant worlds where reality, real life does not interfere with. When that happens it is known as breaking the immersion and potential of how great that world can be.
We all make choices and it's none but your own fault if your willing to spend your time/life to be involved and benefit from other activities over benefiting in that particular game. So, then you can't complain that someone elses efforts and sacrifices are rewarded more than yours.
So, basically a player who chooses to spend more $ will be easily bulking up ingame currency, thus the economy won't be existant.
You do realize WoW has a similar thing, right? You can buy a pet in the store and sell it in game for money.
Yet you play WoW still don't you? Or at least have since it was introduced a few years ago?
And it is one of the many reasons why WOW has been on the decline for couple years straight. The difference though between Blizzard and NCSoft is that Blizzard only did it to one or few specific "pets/mounts" while NCsoft did it to all items that can be bought with ingame currency, non the less yes Blizzard pushed the button, but many many years since WOW existed unlike WildStar.
WOW has took $50 most from me in the last year½. I'm just grateful I get to enjoy Diablo 3 for 10-11 days for free with the WOW's promotion and clearly one of the main reasons I have not touched their trading card game. I'm also 60-70% certain I won't be buying WOW:WoD.
Blizzard is the best example for all companies that the longlivity of their product and if its grows or diminish solely depends on what kind of choices they decide to do. No one else is responsible for the failure of one's game but those responsibile for it.
I see a lot of opinion and a very little data. Do you have any data to verify anything that you are saying? Drop in WoW popularity is most likely attributed to increased number of competitors on the field and its age. So do you have any data that correlates selling Pets in WoW to A SIGNIFICANT decrease in subscriptions?
Because saying things like "Well it is one of many factors" it totally meaningless. Because anything can be considered a factor in drop in WoW subscriptions! I can say that global warming is one of the factors that effected WoW subscriptions, and I would be right.
All I see is a lot of opinion and very little substance. You are playing on peoples emotions of calling something P2W which no on likes (and you know is not true to the extent to which you make it sound) and then you are looking for a narrow definition under which you can be technically correct. In order words you are just looking to start a flame war, because of your own misguided feelings.
So, basically a player who chooses to spend more $ will be easily bulking up ingame currency, thus the economy won't be existant.
You do realize WoW has a similar thing, right? You can buy a pet in the store and sell it in game for money.
Yet you play WoW still don't you? Or at least have since it was introduced a few years ago?
And it is one of the many reasons why WOW has been on the decline for couple years straight. The difference though between Blizzard and NCSoft is that Blizzard only did it to one or few specific "pets/mounts" while NCsoft did it to all items that can be bought with ingame currency, non the less yes Blizzard pushed the button, but many many years since WOW existed unlike WildStar.
WOW has took $50 most from me in the last year½. I'm just grateful I get to enjoy Diablo 3 for 10-11 days for free with the WOW's promotion and clearly one of the main reasons I have not touched their trading card game. I'm also 60-70% certain I won't be buying WOW:WoD.
Blizzard is the best example for all companies that the longlivity of their product and if its grows or diminish solely depends on what kind of choices they decide to do. No one else is responsible for the failure of one's game but those responsibile for it.
I see a lot of opinion and a very little data. Do you have any data to verify anything that you are saying? Drop in WoW popularity is most likely attributed to increased number of competitors on the field and its age. So do you have any data that correlates selling Pets in WoW to A SIGNIFICANT decrease in subscriptions?
Because saying things like "Well it is one of many factors" it totally meaningless. Because anything can be considered a factor in drop in WoW subscriptions! I can say that global warming is one of the factors that effected WoW subscriptions, and I would be right.
All I see is a lot of opinion and very little substance. You are playing on peoples emotions of calling something P2W which no on likes (and you know is not true to the extent to which you make it sound) and then you are looking for a narrow definition under which you can be technically correct. In order words you are just looking to start a flame war, because of your own misguided feelings.
Again, you just proved my point. When you said "drop in WOW's popularity is mostly attributed to increased number of competiors and its age" that you are doing the same, but in this case I do not demand "data" for your opinion to make a point unlike you. I clearly stated "one of many reasons" not the "most significant reason" so please don't twist my words. What you are asking is also something that does not exist because only Blizzard itself is closest to obtaining the most accurate data since they have the survey that asks every one of their subscribers why they choose to quit their game and I highly doubt they've given all that survey data to the public.
Finally, "you" is not "no one". You are welcome to disagree with my opinion on P2W, but sadly all that you posted did not contributed (in my opinion) to a slight change in my opinion that WIldStar is indeed P2W. The next time you try to contribute to a thread I suggess you focus more on your opinions and why you agree or disagree with a particular subject, rather than troll the OP as someone with misguided feelings that's looking to start a flame war.
Clearly, the purpose of this thread is this community to share it's views on WildStar C.R.E.D.D. system that's implemented and if it's P2W or not to them. This is something many (including I) are interested to get familiar with before further making decisions with WildStar or any future/current NCSoft product. This thread will surely be useful and informative to many (including me). If you see it otherwise you are welcome not to participate in it.
you play the game to buy your subscription to be able to win ?
But win what exactly? Many of the things I can do/obtain in the game would be related to currency so the entire "winning" experience would be severely diminished, thus making the game mediocre at best?
you play the game to buy your subscription to be able to win ?
But win what exactly? Many of the things I can do/obtain in the game would be related to currency so the entire "winning" experience would be severely diminished, thus making the game mediocre at best?
winning everything...since subscription grants you access to everything.
this is the flaw in your argument. what does a CREDD do?
you don't wear it.
you don't turn it into gold at a vendor.
you don't apply it as a buff.
you don't apply it as a debuff on your target.
you don't summon a companion with it to fight for you.
you trade it to another player.
it doesn't magically turn into gold. it's being traded. for gold obtained by non-CREDD means.
so when someone does use it all they get is...subscription. Not gear, not buffs. subscription.
it's as pay-to-win as playing your subscription is.
EVE has been doing it for half a decade. EVE's certainly not pay-to-win.
could not have said it better my self. I think the OP just wants to troll, also i like your pic in your siggy ..cant rememeber where its from though -_-
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
you play the game to buy your subscription to be able to win ?
But win what exactly? Many of the things I can do/obtain in the game would be related to currency so the entire "winning" experience would be severely diminished, thus making the game mediocre at best?
winning everything...since subscription grants you access to everything.
this is the flaw in your argument. what does a CREDD do?
you don't wear it.
you don't turn it into gold at a vendor.
you don't apply it as a buff.
you don't apply it as a debuff on your target.
you don't summon a companion with it to fight for you.
you trade it to another player.
it doesn't magically turn into gold. it's being traded. for gold obtained by non-CREDD means.
so when someone does use it all they get is...subscription. Not gear, not buffs. subscription.
it's as pay-to-win as playing your subscription is.
EVE has been doing it for half a decade. EVE's certainly not pay-to-win.
Wasn't the entire purpose and argument of many why P2P (pay to play) works as a better model over F2P (with cash shops) was because everyone in the game is equally treated and can equally plays it. No shortcuts, no ways to get advantage and so forth?
What this system does is creates an opportunity for someone who's willing to involve REAL LIFE currency to directly gain significant advantage over others over all items in the game that are obtainable through ingame currency. Thus making all items in the game obtainable with currency feel nonrewarding to obtain.
One of the many reasons why players choose to play MMORPG's is to progress and build something from nothing. See how far they can do and achieve within the game. All of that is lost when REAL LIFE economy is directly linked with the ingame economy.
you play the game to buy your subscription to be able to win ?
But win what exactly? Many of the things I can do/obtain in the game would be related to currency so the entire "winning" experience would be severely diminished, thus making the game mediocre at best?
winning everything...since subscription grants you access to everything.
this is the flaw in your argument. what does a CREDD do?
you don't wear it.
you don't turn it into gold at a vendor.
you don't apply it as a buff.
you don't apply it as a debuff on your target.
you don't summon a companion with it to fight for you.
you trade it to another player.
it doesn't magically turn into gold. it's being traded. for gold obtained by non-CREDD means.
so when someone does use it all they get is...subscription. Not gear, not buffs. subscription.
it's as pay-to-win as playing your subscription is.
EVE has been doing it for half a decade. EVE's certainly not pay-to-win.
Wasn't the entire purpose and argument of many why P2P (pay to play) works as a better model over F2P (with cash shops) was because everyone in the game is equally treated and can equally plays it. No shortcuts, no ways to get advantage and so forth?
What this system does is creates an opportunity for someone who's willing to involve REAL LIFE currency to directly gain significant advantage over others over all items in the game that are obtainable through ingame currency. Thus making all items in the game obtainable with currency feel nonrewarding to obtain.
One of the many reasons why players choose to play MMORPG's is to progress and build something from nothing. See how far they can do and achieve within the game. All of that is lost when REAL LIFE economy directly has a role in that.
What you fail to understand and many have told you is the fact that the "BEST" gear in t he game is bind on pickup. Meaning no matter how much money you have you will always need to work for the end game gear. And say they did not have the credd system, people would still buy gold from 3rd party sights, i mean look at every other mmo out there its all the same with the gold sellers and Plvlers. NCsoft just cut out the middle person when it came to gold. not to mention CREDD is 20 bucks ..meaning it is more expensive then a sub.
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
Wasn't the entire purpose and argument of many why P2P (pay to play) works as a better model over F2P (with cash shops) was because everyone in the game is equally treated and can equally plays it. No shortcuts, no ways to get advantage and so forth?
What this system does is creates an opportunity for someone who's willing to involve REAL LIFE currency to directly gain significant advantage over others over all items in the game that are obtainable through ingame currency. Thus making all items in the game obtainable with currency feel nonrewarding to obtain.
One of the many reasons why players choose to play MMORPG's is to progress and build something from nothing. See how far they can do and achieve within the game. All of that is lost when REAL LIFE economy is directly linked with the ingame economy.
AH I have found your confusion! I highlighted it!
It does NOT give you a 'significant' advantage. Currency in the game is not too hard to obtain, and you cannot BUY the best gear in the game, hence it does not give you an advantage at all over someone else.
If you have played a theme park game like WoW you'll know that theme park games that have a similar end game progression style would not be pay to win in their very nature.
What you fail to understand and many have told you is the fact that the "BEST" gear in t he game is bind on pickup. Meaning no matter how much money you have you will always need to work for the end game gear. And say they did not have the credd system, people would still buy gold from 3rd party sights, i mean look at every other mmo out there its all the same with the gold sellers and Plvlers. NCsoft just cut out the middle person when it came to gold. not to mention CREDD is 20 bucks ..meaning it is more expensive then a sub.
Oh I clearly understand the concept what you don't understand is that WIldStar is not just about obtaining the "best" gear. And no, you are wrong when you say "no matter how much $ I have I will still need to work for the end game gear. You are clearly not familiar with "services".
You've clearly not seen how people pay to get "piloted" and obtain not just BOP(bind on pick up) best gears but BOP mounts, titles (both pvp and pve), ranks in PvP/Battlegrounds and so forth for INGAME currency.
If there is illegal system in place that people can obtain things, again thats loss to the company itself for allowing such system be in place and there is a significant risk players have to take to go through such system.
NCSoft doesn't just cut out the middle person, they just prefer to be that person on top of asking its customers for box fee, monthly fee and expansion fee. The fact is more expensive just proves that there is more $ to be made by NCSoft (in their opinion), but again clearly the system they have going here clearly does not work with me since now not only I will never spend a dime for WildStar but I would never waste my time and participate in it even if it was free to play.
Yes, it is possible to trade C.R.E.D.D. for in-game gold. However, whether or not this gold can be used to gain a distinct advantage determines if it pay-to-win.
What you fail to understand and many have told you is the fact that the "BEST" gear in t he game is bind on pickup. Meaning no matter how much money you have you will always need to work for the end game gear. And say they did not have the credd system, people would still buy gold from 3rd party sights, i mean look at every other mmo out there its all the same with the gold sellers and Plvlers. NCsoft just cut out the middle person when it came to gold. not to mention CREDD is 20 bucks ..meaning it is more expensive then a sub.
Oh I clearly understand the concept what you don't understand is that WIldStar is not just about obtaining the "best" gear. And no, you are wrong when you say "no matter how much $ I have I will still need to work for the end game gear. You are clearly not familiar with "services".
You've clearly not seen how people pay to get "piloted" and obtain not just BOP(bind on pick up) best gears but BOP mounts, titles (both pvp and pve), ranks in PvP/Battlegrounds and so forth for INGAME currency.
If there is illegal system in place that people can obtain things, again thats loss to the company itself for allowing such system be in place and there is a significant risk players have to take to go through such system.
NCSoft doesn't just cut out the middle person, they just prefer to be that person on top of asking its customers for box fee, monthly fee and expansion fee. The fact is more expensive just proves that there is more $ to be made by NCSoft (in their opinion), but again clearly the system they have going here clearly does not work with me since now not only I will never spend a dime for WildStar but I would never waste my time and participate in it even if it was free to play.
The exact same behavior your describe HAPPENS in WoW, they trade REAL money to guilds under the table, the discussions happen in vent or teamspeak and then money changes hands.
So what you are concerned about will happen EITHER WAY, this way NCSoft gets to cut out the middle man.
Heck, in the last game I played (FFXIV) people were paying real money for all kinds of runs on the DL of course.
So let's stop kidding ourselves and face reality, this is a fix to a problem, a problem you don't like, I don't like, and the developrs don't like, but it does fix it.
Edit: Yes it is more expensive than a month's game time, it's the same price as the exact same service was on TERA. This is to discourage it's use but to enable people who really want to buy gold to have an outlet.
It's like a clean needle exchange man, some of these folks gotta have their fix.
Comments
The game economy is directly linked with the real world economy (something that should not exist if your goal is to make a perfect game). If all it just shows further the purpose of why NCSoft made it...
It is the reason and difference between companies like Blizzard and NCsoft. Blizzard understands this better than NCsoft and it is why WOW is going strong now decade+. If all NCsoft has only lost the trust of many who once bought Guild Wars 2 and this is only further harming their reputation and their products. I'm just glad they introduced this on launch so players can make their own choices now than regret later.
I've only bought one product from NCSoft and that was Aion. Sadly, Aion was a decent MMORPG, but 5½ years from now I'm sure most know where it stands today.
Hehe ok
Eve does the same thing and has been been around as long as wow, so not sure if your argument holds up there. In fact, its widely accepted that eve has one of the best economies yet it has the same system in place as ws.
You do realize WoW has a similar thing, right? You can buy a pet in the store and sell it in game for money.
Yet you play WoW still don't you? Or at least have since it was introduced a few years ago?
What in the fuck are you talking about?
So those who are able to afford to buy the game this month have an advantage over those who have to wait until next month to afford it. They will be a whole month ahead of all those people.
And what of those who can afford to play more often? If I can afford to take a week off work to play that will certainly give me an advantage over those who can't. What about someone who can "afford" to be unemployed because someone else pays the bills? How much advantage does that buy them?
If I hire the kid across the street to mow my lawn I can use that two hours to farm gold. so I give him $20 for the work and he turns around and spends that $20 on a months subscription to Wildstar because he happens to play also. He gets a month of game time and I get more play time. How exactly is that different than if I gave some other kid a $20 CREDD for game time in exchange for some in game gold that makes it so I don't have to grind for gold a few nights out of the month but instead I can just raid with my guild? he gets a month of game time and I get more of time playing the game the way I want to play it.
CREDD is not pay to win. It is a time shifter. One person trades real money for someone elses time in game. That time taking the form of gold that would other wise require time spent grinding. The same thing goes for things like an exp boost potion. All it does is shift the time frame in which someone will be able to access a certain part or aspect of the game. Time shifters are not pay to win because MMOs are not a race. If you think it is you are playing it wrong. In a race everyone has to start out at the same time and in equal conditions. and races always have an end. MMOs, always have new people coming into the game at later points in time and there is not set end condition. Time shifters don't matter because everyone has access to what they offer regardless if they pay or not.
Real pay to win is when someone can buy an advantage THAT CANNOT BE REASONABLY OBTAINED OTHERWISE. Everybody can get gold in the game. you simply have to choose if you will get it by spending time playing or if you will trade that time for real money. But if the only way to get the 'Ring of Win' is either from the cash shop or getting it from a 1 in 1billion chance of a random drop from Boss Ultimate then yeah, that is pay to win, because while you can get it in game, in theory there is not a reasonable chance that you will actually get that lucky. Leaving the only reliable way to obtain the 'Ring of Win' being from the cash shop.
Now understand that I am not in anyway an NCSOFT fan. Their cash shops skate the razor's edge of pay to win all the time. They treat the NA market like an after thought constantly. The have made changes to the veteran's program of Aion that substantially reduced the value of my account in that game in order to "encourage" the repurchasing of items that were later added to the cash shop of that game. A practice that I would characterize as entirely unethical. I don't like NCSoft at all and while they do produce high quality titles I would still recommend that people be cautious in dealing with them.
But... While I fully expect NCSoft to find a way to screw things up on Wildstar and probably turn it into a pay to win wonderland someday, today is not that day and CREDD is not the means by which they do it. CREDD is fine. Just keep your eyes open for what comes next.
All die, so die well.
Pay2Win: when a advantage can only be had by spending real money.
By this very simple defenition WS is not pay to win...
Now if it can/will break the economy is a better question and that i have answer for, it did not do it in Eve but they are two very different games.
And in all honesty people play the market and break it just fine on all other games.
This have been a good conversation
Yet you play WoW still don't you? Or at least have since it was introduced a few years ago?
Haha now that is very interesting. Kind of blows this whole thread up in the ops face
If that's your problem why not lay it out that way in the first place? Why use begrudging terms like P2W?
Blizzard is selling pre-made toons now, so I don't know about Blizzard having some higher standard, it's ironic coming form someone who was just complaining about another company introducing something that supports P2W... to say blizzard knows better...Not that I care what Blizzard does or if they cross that line or not, I don't. However you seem to...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So what your telling me is paying 60 bucks for a max level character is not a bad move on bliz's part. This is just a way for those who do not have money for a sub to play the game by buying the time with ingame gold.
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
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If this is the definition of P2W, then all buy to play and sub games are P2W, since if you don't pay, you can't even play
Most free gamers see P2W as having to pay, period. You may think that p2w means buying and unfair advantage, that is a lie. As more and more of these post reach these forums you will come to realize what p2w really means. If a game makes them pay for anything it is pay 2 win. Because free gamers must churn out gold to buy C.R.E.E.D. in order to buy game time, that makes it pay to win. Not being absolutely free makes a game p2w.
p2w = p2p. (Nothing more, nothing less.)Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
And it is one of the many reasons why WOW has been on the decline for couple years straight. The difference though between Blizzard and NCSoft is that Blizzard only did it to one or few specific "pets/mounts" while NCsoft did it to all items that can be bought with ingame currency, non the less yes Blizzard pushed the button, but many many years since WOW existed unlike WildStar.
WOW has took $50 most from me in the last year½. I'm just grateful I get to enjoy Diablo 3 for 10-11 days for free with the WOW's promotion and clearly one of the main reasons I have not touched their trading card game. I'm also 60-70% certain I won't be buying WOW:WoD.
Blizzard is the best example for all companies that the longlivity of their product and if its grows or diminish solely depends on what kind of choices they decide to do. No one else is responsible for the failure of one's game but those responsibile for it.
Also some of the posters above who complained at being at disadvantage in a given game for being unable or not willing to spend as much time as they would like on it and choose to do "other activities" and just fork the cash and get the currency ingame quickly and easily that's simply does not work..Games are meant to be virtual, fantasy, persistant worlds where reality, real life does not interfere with. When that happens it is known as breaking the immersion and potential of how great that world can be.
We all make choices and it's none but your own fault if your willing to spend your time/life to be involved and benefit from other activities over benefiting in that particular game. So, then you can't complain that someone elses efforts and sacrifices are rewarded more than yours.
I see a lot of opinion and a very little data. Do you have any data to verify anything that you are saying? Drop in WoW popularity is most likely attributed to increased number of competitors on the field and its age. So do you have any data that correlates selling Pets in WoW to A SIGNIFICANT decrease in subscriptions?
Because saying things like "Well it is one of many factors" it totally meaningless. Because anything can be considered a factor in drop in WoW subscriptions! I can say that global warming is one of the factors that effected WoW subscriptions, and I would be right.
All I see is a lot of opinion and very little substance. You are playing on peoples emotions of calling something P2W which no on likes (and you know is not true to the extent to which you make it sound) and then you are looking for a narrow definition under which you can be technically correct. In order words you are just looking to start a flame war, because of your own misguided feelings.
Again, you just proved my point. When you said "drop in WOW's popularity is mostly attributed to increased number of competiors and its age" that you are doing the same, but in this case I do not demand "data" for your opinion to make a point unlike you. I clearly stated "one of many reasons" not the "most significant reason" so please don't twist my words. What you are asking is also something that does not exist because only Blizzard itself is closest to obtaining the most accurate data since they have the survey that asks every one of their subscribers why they choose to quit their game and I highly doubt they've given all that survey data to the public.
Finally, "you" is not "no one". You are welcome to disagree with my opinion on P2W, but sadly all that you posted did not contributed (in my opinion) to a slight change in my opinion that WIldStar is indeed P2W. The next time you try to contribute to a thread I suggess you focus more on your opinions and why you agree or disagree with a particular subject, rather than troll the OP as someone with misguided feelings that's looking to start a flame war.
Clearly, the purpose of this thread is this community to share it's views on WildStar C.R.E.D.D. system that's implemented and if it's P2W or not to them. This is something many (including I) are interested to get familiar with before further making decisions with WildStar or any future/current NCSoft product. This thread will surely be useful and informative to many (including me). If you see it otherwise you are welcome not to participate in it.
Well so far 75% disagree with you.
But win what exactly? Many of the things I can do/obtain in the game would be related to currency so the entire "winning" experience would be severely diminished, thus making the game mediocre at best?
could not have said it better my self. I think the OP just wants to troll, also i like your pic in your siggy ..cant rememeber where its from though -_-
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Wasn't the entire purpose and argument of many why P2P (pay to play) works as a better model over F2P (with cash shops) was because everyone in the game is equally treated and can equally plays it. No shortcuts, no ways to get advantage and so forth?
What this system does is creates an opportunity for someone who's willing to involve REAL LIFE currency to directly gain significant advantage over others over all items in the game that are obtainable through ingame currency. Thus making all items in the game obtainable with currency feel nonrewarding to obtain.
One of the many reasons why players choose to play MMORPG's is to progress and build something from nothing. See how far they can do and achieve within the game. All of that is lost when REAL LIFE economy is directly linked with the ingame economy.
What you fail to understand and many have told you is the fact that the "BEST" gear in t he game is bind on pickup. Meaning no matter how much money you have you will always need to work for the end game gear. And say they did not have the credd system, people would still buy gold from 3rd party sights, i mean look at every other mmo out there its all the same with the gold sellers and Plvlers. NCsoft just cut out the middle person when it came to gold. not to mention CREDD is 20 bucks ..meaning it is more expensive then a sub.
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No.
P2W = buying an advantage a player who cannot obtain it UNLESS they are buying said advantage.
If you can EARN the thing in game then it doesn't mater. Especially in a game where the best items are only EARNED not PURCHASED.
Thing's are not as black and white as you think they are.
AH I have found your confusion! I highlighted it!
It does NOT give you a 'significant' advantage. Currency in the game is not too hard to obtain, and you cannot BUY the best gear in the game, hence it does not give you an advantage at all over someone else.
If you have played a theme park game like WoW you'll know that theme park games that have a similar end game progression style would not be pay to win in their very nature.
Hope this helps.
Oh I clearly understand the concept what you don't understand is that WIldStar is not just about obtaining the "best" gear. And no, you are wrong when you say "no matter how much $ I have I will still need to work for the end game gear. You are clearly not familiar with "services".
You've clearly not seen how people pay to get "piloted" and obtain not just BOP(bind on pick up) best gears but BOP mounts, titles (both pvp and pve), ranks in PvP/Battlegrounds and so forth for INGAME currency.
If there is illegal system in place that people can obtain things, again thats loss to the company itself for allowing such system be in place and there is a significant risk players have to take to go through such system.
NCSoft doesn't just cut out the middle person, they just prefer to be that person on top of asking its customers for box fee, monthly fee and expansion fee. The fact is more expensive just proves that there is more $ to be made by NCSoft (in their opinion), but again clearly the system they have going here clearly does not work with me since now not only I will never spend a dime for WildStar but I would never waste my time and participate in it even if it was free to play.
The exact same behavior your describe HAPPENS in WoW, they trade REAL money to guilds under the table, the discussions happen in vent or teamspeak and then money changes hands.
So what you are concerned about will happen EITHER WAY, this way NCSoft gets to cut out the middle man.
Heck, in the last game I played (FFXIV) people were paying real money for all kinds of runs on the DL of course.
So let's stop kidding ourselves and face reality, this is a fix to a problem, a problem you don't like, I don't like, and the developrs don't like, but it does fix it.
Edit: Yes it is more expensive than a month's game time, it's the same price as the exact same service was on TERA. This is to discourage it's use but to enable people who really want to buy gold to have an outlet.
It's like a clean needle exchange man, some of these folks gotta have their fix.