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The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
in order to answer the current situation @ the darkfall cafe.. you need to analyse what's is going with both the design of the game and the company choices that are being made..
Ill start with saying that i played df1 for around 3 years straight and recetly resubbed to uw and see what happends with this rollpatch..
the whole gamedesign of uw is simple not logic.. and fails in common sense..
while selling uw with core factors like hardcore pvp reinvented, major siege pvp battles and sandbox.. the logic that you will see ingame dont correspond with the core elements that should have been ingame..
A couple of simple examples:
- holdings are useless they dont have any form valuable assets so sieging holdings are very care..
- raiding a city is pretty much pointless during oftime sieges.. no tools are giving to climb over walls.. except doing asset destrucion to a wall to get insde when the cannons and other siege equipment costs shitton of mats to produce, dont forget to mention the fact of dmg of the towers in cities
- completly destroyed solo and small scale coopartive gameplay when not only getting 3/4 hitted by enemies but missing tools to help eachother during combat.. the TTK in this game is just a mess
- game is unplayble for an average computer.. big battle are simply not accuring not only due to low population but also the problem with low FPS and crashes during so called big battles.
- when a red player enters your city the developers of uw seems to see that as a none important intraction and place the alert, of some enemy(reds) entering your city, in the most right down corner of your screen with no alert or anything going on.
- lootables are just not well thought of.. its a big mess
- by implenting the market system to uw.. the developers didnt thought have the concequenses of that. and totally destroyed the aspects of having a vendor on your house.
- sandbox? well sandbox means that developers are giving tools to players to be creative ingame.. these tools are simple missing from the whole game.. DF1 had the creativity combat wise with 150 dps/utilities and so forth to make the combat very dynamic and alot of space for creativity to players
i can make alot of more examples to this list.. but its simple not worth it because the company behind uw simply dont get it and never will
Lets analyse what's going on ingame and forumwise and choices that a being made by the company..
since i recetly resubbed to the game.. i can honestly say that the population on both eu and na is worser then it has even been in timespan of the whole darkfall franshise
not only can you see that ingame, when after 1.3 years of uw lifespan 40/50% of all the houses are not even build yet and/ or abended, most big clans of df1 not playing the game, holdings mostly empty, pvp happing.. being talked over in global,no forum intraction concerning sieges and so forth
Av thought by going more wowish style they attract more and new players to the game.. which simply backfired by wrong game design and failing common sense.
Currently they are sweating their asses of because of the low population and trying make the game more like df1..
This upcoming rollpatch i forsee alot more trouble then actually profit.. when the game is hanging between casual and hardcore pvp...it will simple dont attract the hardcore pvp'ers and simply chase away the casuals because of broken builds which last the upcoming months after this patch
The company did excatly the opposite of what a game company should have been doing..
- create a game called darkfall... sell around 150k copies of that game.. which means that people are intrested in this sort of mmofps.. then dont give any intraction with you customers and leave the game to rot..
- create a new game go into a different direction... fail to deliver... reckonise the fact that failed, but not openly admitting to it.
- start doing patches on your new game and start intraction on the forum with developers because its so sucessfull
This company seriously had a big chance to go from a nichy project to a company like ccp.. if they would have handle the problems the game had.. but instead of that they redirected their vision and gamedesign, reckon they failed @ it, introduced elements into the game which caused @least 2/3 problem with it, and now they are trying to revert things back..
Yes this rollpatch will be bring some players back to the game.. but the skills and abilities that are setup with a design to classes will simple not work if you let total freedom take place concerning these abilities
The window of opportunity is closing fast AV.. terrible situation requirers hard measures and not bandaid fixes..
Also shutting your hardcore playerbase up by deleting thread regarding the old game and/or banning players is not gonna work
stubborn or to much pride on your failing game?
I chose the Xfinity speed test because it does not reveal my ISP.
Edit: Cant even read my own poll.
There are a lot of people who won't play the game because...
Originally posted by Holophonist This new system is NOT, I repeat NOT like DFO. I'm not sure why so many people are making this false claim.
Its real close to it. I predict that someone will find that ONE spec that everyone MUST have to be good.
I just hope they kill bunny hopping. Its already starting to rear its ugly face and was the worst part of DF1.0 outside of the FPS kiddies.
Originally posted by -Zeno- Originally posted by Holophonist This new system is NOT, I repeat NOT like DFO. I'm not sure why so many people are making this false claim.
It's not really close to it. The entire problem with DF1 was that everybody could do everything. That's quite simply not the case with this system, regardless of what you predict.
Darkfall always had and always will have the vocal observers... Maybe (though likely not), they've played the game for a week or so... Those who actually play the game (i'm not one of them) are mostly optimistic of the coming Jesus patch.. I'm someone who has played previously and will play again with the Jesus patch.. I played just enough to know what I really don't like about the game.. I'm extremely excited about the Jesus patch... Which brings me to my point.. There seems to be a lot of people who are tremendously pessimistic about everything related to Darkfall but really have no personal knowledge of the past/current/intended gamestate.
Incognitowww.incognito-gaming.us"You're either with us or against us"
Do you mean that I can reroll as *Wolf* not f**king owlcat or dog?
Can I b***h about 4leg run again?
Sorry, I never made 400hp...
Playing: Smite, Marvel HeroesPlayed: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAgeWaiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Originally posted by Holophonist Originally posted by -Zeno- Originally posted by Holophonist This new system is NOT, I repeat NOT like DFO. I'm not sure why so many people are making this false claim.
No, that was the second problem, the first problem was that it took over a year of consta-macro-exploit-grinding to even get to having all the skills at max, so you could compete for more than the 9 seconds it took for the macro-exploit-grinders to kill you.
That, and the fact that over time, we as an audience have sussed out that AV just does not understand game design, nor their own game.
Originally posted by Ket_Viliano Originally posted by Holophonist Originally posted by -Zeno- Originally posted by Holophonist This new system is NOT, I repeat NOT like DFO. I'm not sure why so many people are making this false claim.
Not sure what any of that has to do with this new skill system. Point is what they're implementing now is not at all like DFO.
I predict that your wrong.
Which ultimate will this ONE spec use?
Pall of Pandemonium?
Wall of Righteous Force?
There are too many good Ultimates to warrant one single good build.
People will build their other abilities, likely around their Ultimate.
What nuke should people pick up?
Bolt of Bedlam?
Each have their own strengths, ranges, and cooldowns.
Do you want the stat drain of virtuous wrath, the CC of bitterstep?
If you are going to use Frostbite, you may also want to use thunderbolt for increased damage, OR you may just be content with the snare from Frostbite, and close in with melee.
What will you do when someone get's close range with you?
Will you open up with Lacerates, Vamp Strikes, or Powerattacks?
Or will you tornado/repel them away?
Do you feel you need more defense? What are you weak against? What do you need protection from?
Attunement to Air?
Attunement to Water?
Attunement to Fire?
Are you going to be playing solo or in a group?
Do you want to pick up Healing Blast to heal yourself or Exalted Sacrifice to cross heal?
Do you want to Consecrate for your group in a big fight?
Do you want Ranged Rez and Gank?
Do you want to pick up Buff Other spells for teamplay?
And more importantly, will you be building your character with the Boosters to make these spells effective?
Everyone can't be everything. A character with a lot of Strength and strong melee will likely not have the Wisdom to heal as effectively has a someone who does. His nukes will not be as effective as someone who invests in Intelligence.
To say that there will be ONE build is silly.
There are currently 4 roles in the game, and while Baresark/Slayer Warriors are dominate, there are still plenty of people playing different flavors of Warrior, as well as different flavors of Skirm, Prime, and Mage.
Originally posted by Ket_Viliano Do you mean that I can reroll as *Wolf* not f**king owlcat or dog? Can I b***h about 4leg run again? Sorry, I never made 400hp... lol
I picked the Marhirim for the same reason but found out that they ditched the hind-leg run at beta because it would be too OP
Originally posted by General-Zod Originally posted by Ket_Viliano Do you mean that I can reroll as *Wolf* not f**king owlcat or dog? Can I b***h about 4leg run again? Sorry, I never made 400hp... lol
I just want my wolf face back, and the funny gait.
Originally posted by Lustmord Originally posted by -Zeno- Originally posted by Holophonist This new system is NOT, I repeat NOT like DFO. I'm not sure why so many people are making this false claim.
To say that there will be ONE build is silly.
People are describing it poorly. I've touched on this in another thread.. or perhaps earlier in this one. It's not a "one-size fits all" thing. It's that there will be one build considered "the best" in any given role (dps, healing, etc).
The point is, as I've stated - and has proven to be the case across all MMOs, regardless of how many different options they provide (believe me, DF is not the first one to claim "many possible builds") - it ultimately doesn't matter how many possible options there are.
The players will run through various setups and then, in surprisinglyl short order, will declare a certain build to be "the absolute best" in any given role. It doesn't matter how much variety is possible through "Ultimates'. Which ever 'Ultimate' contributes most to the "best possible build" will be considered the go-to standard. All others will be deemed sub-optimal.
The ideal with systems like this are that the player find a build to suit their playstyle. What ends up happening instead, is that the players adapt their playstyle to the "standard best build" of the moment.
Again, to emphasize this, because some people seem to be taking it as a claim against the game, when it isn't. I'm not saying the game won't really offer you all those options. I'll even argue that many of them would be viable. What I'm saying is..
Players in general want to be as efficient, optimal and powerful as possible in whatever role they're playing. They want to know whatever gear they're using is the absolute best. They want to know whatever build they're using is the absolute best. They don't like having multiple options. They depend on things being broken down to a handful of "go-to" solutions, and they depend on others to figure that out so they can simply follow a guide.
And so, even in a game that offers myriad different possibilities... it's the players who will - in spite of all that - reduce all those options down to a handful that are deemed "optimum and standard".
I swear I remember having this exact debate/discussion before the launch of DF1, and there were people saying "nuh uhh! It won't work that way, because "insert reasons here"". And yet... that's exactly what happened anyway.
Why? Not because the game lacked those options. But because the players limited themselves to those few builds deemed "viable".
You can come back with lists of all these options and variables all day long. It don't matter. It's not the game imposing those limits. It's the players imposing it on themselves. That's the crucial detail that some don't seem to be getting.
The good news is, that dependence on specific builds, and the assumption that everyone is following the same builds (because that's usually what happens) can be used against opponents. If they're expecting you to do certain things, in a certain way, based on their assumption that you're using the same build and strategy as the other 500 people they've fought playing the same role... then that becomes a weakness you can easily exploit... assuming you're prepared and able to take them on. If they're expecting you to do "A, B, C", and you instead come at them with "X, Y, Z".. you've automatically thrown them off balance because they've prepared for something that didn't happen.
So... depending on which side of the fence you're on... it can work for you, or against you.
Originally posted by TangentPoint I swear I remember having this exact debate/discussion before the launch of DF1, and there were people saying "nuh uhh! It won't work that way, because "insert reasons here"". And yet... that's exactly what happened anyway. Why? Not because the game lacked those options. But because the players limited themselves to those few builds deemed "viable".
No, because the game had no hard caps on skills. Everyone had everything.
This one has a hard cap: 8 class skills + 1 Ultimate, (Out of a pool of 48 class skills + 12 Ultimates).
Look at UO, that game had a 700 skillpoint cap. Everyone wasn't the same build, there was a LARGE VARIETY of viable builds to choose and play through every stage of that games life.
Just like UO, there will be more possible combinations than actual viable builds, sure.. But there will still be a shit ton of good builds that are viable to play.
"I will never play Darkfall even if they paid me to no matter what they do to the game. - 32.7%"
Based on 55 votes.
55 * 32,7% = 18
This prove that there are more trolls/haters here than players interested in a game.I (for instance) am a veteran of MMOs (10+ years playing) and I never had interest in WoW, for me WoW is disgusting, however I NEVER went to WoW forum section to post as much vote in a poll, to be honest I never visit the forum section of a game I don't care.
Originally posted by SirBalin If you are going to post a poll...limit the choices...that was just dumb. However, the changes are exactly what the community masses have been asking for, so it's a good thing.
I had to put in a troll net in. It worked out pretty well.
4 legged running never made it into Darkfall 1.0. It is also funny how WoW got 4 legged running too (after Darkfall developers came up with that concept).
I do agree the models need to be updated to the "2010" Darkfall models. The developers say its in the pipeline but is not top priority right now. Who cares about fluff anyway? Ohh, EQ clone players do...
Originally posted by Crucial "I will never play Darkfall even if they paid me to no matter what they do to the game. - 32.7%" Based on 55 votes. 55 * 32,7% = 18 This prove that there are more trolls/haters here than players interested in a game. I (for instance) am a veteran of MMOs (10+ years playing) and I never had interest in WoW, for me WoW is disgusting, however I NEVER went to WoW forum section to post as much vote in a poll, to be honest I never visit the forum section of a game I don't care.
Just shows that DF touched many and they still loof after the game if its improving. While AV did alot of bad things to the franchise the current playerbase, haters, DF Fanboys, casual, hardcores and so on like the current game.
It still has its flaws but AV turned as a company and really acts as an indie developer now that improves the game together with the community. For example there were various implementations of the new role system presented by AV months ago and for example the bonuses on armor is a result of community interaction.
AV has changed to add meaningful content ingame like villages, AOI and mobs finally worth farming for there loot with a kinda regional loot table because you can aim for a specific ressource now and farm it.
Very happy with the game atm and after seeing the Dev-Stream with the new role system iam hyped as fuck.
Games:Currently playing:NothingWill play: Darkfall: Unholy WarsPast games:Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher DuminousXpiher's GW2GW 1 - Xpiher DuminousDarkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retiredAoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retiredWarhammer - Xpiher