Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

4,528,187,928 possible skill combos!

LustmordLustmord Mt. Gilead, OHPosts: 1,095Member Uncommon

Jesus Christ! Over 4.5 billion combinations for skills alone, in the upcomming Custom Roles patch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt_T_ejO8gI&list=UUeXzGHiwbo1U_7CLdHrAjKw

 

And it's coming next week!!

«1

Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,980Member Uncommon
    Anything beyond 50 is probably too many.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • CaaahlCaaahl LeipzigPosts: 229Member
    Awsomesauce!

    Caaahl / DAA KAPUTTMACHAA ---DF/DFUW

  • nbtscannbtscan Phoenix, AZPosts: 774Member Uncommon
    And when it comes down to it, there's probably only 5 that are actually viable.
  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,535Member Uncommon

    Nice! More options are always good.

    Sadly, due to players' obsession with having to find "The Best Builds",  that 4,428,187,928 combos will inevitably be reduced to a handful of "accepted builds" deemed "the standard". Experimentation with alternative setups will be mocked and/or otherwise discouraged.

    Why?

    Because there are very, very few players in the MMO genre who truly embrace experimentation; who enjoy trying different combinations, to find what works through trial and error. Something like this is a gold-mine to them.

    Many - perhaps even most? - players just want to look up a guide online and be shown/told exactly what build to use and exactly how to play it. The idea of having to learn or figure things out for themselves is anathema. They just want to be told/shown "the best way to play", and let others do "all that boring research".

  • LustmordLustmord Mt. Gilead, OHPosts: 1,095Member Uncommon

    I think there will be a lot more than a handful..

    Just look at the Ultimates..

    There are currently 12 Ultimates in the game, and each is useful and viable for different things.

    Alot of healers for example, might choose Spirit Bond, but others would prefer Stoic Defense.

    Will heavy melee builds pick Pulverize, or Heightened Reflexes, or maybe Static Field?

    In a siege when you want AOE, are you gonna pick Salvo, or Blizzard, or Pall of Pandemonium?

    There's tons of options, and they are each viable.

     

  • Cramit845Cramit845 Port Ewen, NYPosts: 343Member Uncommon

    That's definitely nice but I agree, it will turn into a hand full of options that are considered "viable".

     

    Although it does make me wanna try this game even more.

    image

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    How in the seven hells will they balance that? 100 maybe, 300 ok, but 4 bil? Prepare to see nuke builds and people crying imba/op.

    image
  • Deerhunter71Deerhunter71 Richmond, VAPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by nbtscan
    And when it comes down to it, there's probably only 5 that are actually viable.

    +1 just like before in DF1.  A few people will find the few that are the best and then you will see everyone following suit.  I give them props for giving folks options BUT should have been in a long time ago.

  • LustmordLustmord Mt. Gilead, OHPosts: 1,095Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71
    Originally posted by nbtscan
    And when it comes down to it, there's probably only 5 that are actually viable.

    +1 just like before in DF1.  A few people will find the few that are the best and then you will see everyone following suit.  I give them props for giving folks options BUT should have been in a long time ago.

    Disagree.

    The difference between this and DF1, is the Ultimates.

    You can only choose 1 ultimate.

    With 12 Ults in the game, this alone will open a lot of different playstyles.

    Also, people are going to stay in their comfort zones. People who play primarily Warrior pre-patch, will continue to play Warrior builds post-patch. People who liked Skirmishers before, will continue to be a Skirmisher, just with a few different abilities sprinkled in.

    I will likely be a combination build of Elementalist/Primalist, because that is my comfort zone.

    And there will also be lots of  specialized builds.. Mobility builds, Blind Builds, Stam Drain builds, AOE builds, Max Damage Builds, Max Defense builds, Healing Builds, CC builds, etc.

     

    Q: Why is it so easy to predict there will be only a few options, yet nobody on this forum can say what those options will be?

    A: Because there too many good options.

     

     

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Lustmord
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71
    Originally posted by nbtscan
    And when it comes down to it, there's probably only 5 that are actually viable.

    +1 just like before in DF1.  A few people will find the few that are the best and then you will see everyone following suit.  I give them props for giving folks options BUT should have been in a long time ago.

    Disagree.

    The difference between this and DF1, is the Ultimates.

    You can only choose 1 ultimate.

    With 12 Ults in the game, this alone will open a lot of different playstyles.

    Also, people are going to stay in their comfort zones. People who play primarily Warrior pre-patch, will continue to play Warrior builds post-patch. People who liked Skirmishers before, will continue to be a Skirmisher, just with a few different abilities sprinkled in.

    I will likely be a combination build of Elementalist/Primalist, because that is my comfort zone.

    And there will also be lots of  specialized builds.. Mobility builds, Blind Builds, Stam Drain builds, AOE builds, Max Damage Builds, Max Defense builds, Healing Builds, CC builds, etc.

     

    Q: Why is it so easy to predict there will be only a few options, yet nobody on this forum can say what those options will be?

    A: Because there too many good options.

     

     

    Can be said about this game as a whole.

    image
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,766Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nbtscan
    And when it comes down to it, there's probably only 5 that are actually viable.

    viable and actually different from the rest.

    image
  • mmoesportsmmoesports TokyoPosts: 159Member
    Originally posted by Lustmord

    Jesus Christ! Over 4.5 billion combinations for skills alone, in the upcomming Custom Roles patch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt_T_ejO8gI&list=UUeXzGHiwbo1U_7CLdHrAjKw

     

    And it's coming next week!!

    We need Super Computer for theory crafting!

  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Vimont, QCPosts: 1,625Member
    Originally posted by TangentPoint

    Nice! More options are always good.

    Sadly, due to players' obsession with having to find "The Best Builds",  that 4,428,187,928 combos will inevitably be reduced to a handful of "accepted builds" deemed "the standard". Experimentation with alternative setups will be mocked and/or otherwise discouraged.

    Why?

    Because there are very, very few players in the MMO genre who truly embrace experimentation; who enjoy trying different combinations, to find what works through trial and error. Something like this is a gold-mine to them.

    Many - perhaps even most? - players just want to look up a guide online and be shown/told exactly what build to use and exactly how to play it. The idea of having to learn or figure things out for themselves is anathema. They just want to be told/shown "the best way to play", and let others do "all that boring research".

    Not if balanced in a way to allow all combinations to be viable and fun. Not everything has to be the best. Destroyers in DFO was not so good, but players made that build because it was viable and fun and you still had enough tools to be good in all areas. If you were the best in DFO, it was even possible to be the best as a destro. 

    To allow all those builds to be viable and fun, they will have to balance everything based on the fact that DF is a sandbox. They shouldnt in no way balance DF like a dev usually balance a moba like league of legends and DF UW at first, was balanced with a moba in mind.

    All that mobility spells ruined roles that didnt had any.  Those roles were good in large scale or 1on1, but not in between. Even if they are good in both of those, there is just no way for them to dictate the fight against a role that can run away or prevent the mage from running away. Everyone who plays DF see 2 goals, surviving or killing.

    Mobas are always 5v5, you have towers, you start at level 1 and 0 gold, you got all type of CC's and they can last as long as 5+ sec. Counters in mobas are real simple. You don't like champs that can escape so easily? Use stun. You hate the fact that they can chase you down so easily? Use your towers if they're not tanky enough to get you in there. So many counters in mobas. Unlike a sandbox, a character that can escape in moba's can't escape from the game. They're must finish the game and if they logout, they lose. In a sandbox, you don't lose for escaping from the whole fight so you won because you survived(Moral victory right there).

    DF is not heavy on CC and again, it's a sandbox. Fights are not always fair so with all that in mind, some aspect on skills can never be balanced. If you don't have all mobility spells and someone else does, than that character will have a chance to be good in more areas. 

    I usually prefer to be original, but once that customization patch drops, we all know what everyone is gonna get. I said since the start that mobility spells either have to be common or removed or the roles that got most of those will be the FOTM.

    C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member

    Yay! Can't wait for a 12yr old guild leader to tell me which one to choose or else, I can't join them.

    I call 3 cookie-cutters tops.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • Iceman8235Iceman8235 Bordentown, NJPosts: 194Member Uncommon

    skill combos:  4.5 billion

    people playing the game:  7

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    If hybrids are the only viable builds the game fails to deliver diversity. 

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,289Member Uncommon

    Reminds me of the 'cable tv' joke, 1000 channels and nothing on worth watching.

    Im not sure whether taking off the class restrictions that they had in place will really work tbh, i thought the whole idea of them having the game setup the way they did with classes etc, was to prevent FOTM imbalances. Does this mean that it will have the same disadvantages that DFO had with the horribad afk skill grinding.. i suspect it will. And the return of the 'everyone has the same combat skills' in PvP will no doubt rear its ugly head, what does it matter if there are a bazillion possible combinations, if everyone is just going to go for the most effective ones, which means, there really will only be 1 or 2 viable combinations at best. Hopefully i am wrong, but isn't this exactly what happened before? image

  • GreymoorGreymoor ManchesterPosts: 801Member

    Clearly I agree with people saying you won't see 4.5 billion viable combinations. That's just impossible.

    But like the OP points out, in DFUW you're only allowed to select a single ultimate skill. This alone will create massive amounts of diversity based on what people are aiming to achieve with their role.

    Then you have to consider that every solid group will need a mix of capabilities; tankier people, pushers, ranged, support, aoe etc.

    It will open up the possibility of having groups all speccing in a similar fashion to achieve a common purpose, such as x5 high mobility assassins to zip in and out on called targets.

    And the faact you cn choose the armours for their different bonuses, heavy with KB resist to medium with speed or light with extra damage. You'll never know what to expect from your opponents.

    The excitement building up to this patch is incredible and the ingame population has already felt that tremendously as people try to brush up on their skills in advance.

  • GreymoorGreymoor ManchesterPosts: 801Member
    Originally posted by Phry

    Reminds me of the 'cable tv' joke, 1000 channels and nothing on worth watching.

    Im not sure whether taking off the class restrictions that they had in place will really work tbh, i thought the whole idea of them having the game setup the way they did with classes etc, was to prevent FOTM imbalances. Does this mean that it will have the same disadvantages that DFO had with the horribad afk skill grinding.. i suspect it will. And the return of the 'everyone has the same combat skills' in PvP will no doubt rear its ugly head, what does it matter if there are a bazillion possible combinations, if everyone is just going to go for the most effective ones, which means, there really will only be 1 or 2 viable combinations at best. Hopefully i am wrong, but isn't this exactly what happened before? image

    In DF1 you had access to every single ability at the same time, there were no restrictions to how many you could have bound and there were no ultimate abilities. This lead to everyone having to be good at archery, melee and spamming spells to win a fight. So you were a hybrid master of everything or something known as a destroyer (no magic allowed, extra damage to staff users).

    The game changers here are;

    - The maximum number of abilities that are equippable at a time

    - Each ability being unique and useful in different situations

    - Being able to select one of 12 useful ultimates

     

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    and there will be like two decent builds that everyone will use.

    image

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    and there will be like two decent builds that everyone will use.

    Right. Because there were already only 2 decent builds to begin with when locked into classes, and now with freedom to mix any skills, weapons, and armor it's totally going to stay that way too....

    Ignorance is so amusing.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    and there will be like two decent builds that everyone will use.

    Right. Because there were already only 2 decent builds to begin with when locked into classes, and now with freedom to mix any skills, weapons, and armor it's totally going to stay that way too....

    Ignorance is so amusing.

    In EVE-Online the possible permutations for ship fittings are also astronomical, the valid permutations less so and the number of "decent" builds per ship for PvP or PvE and the meta shifts every now and then with patches or via player build innovations but at any one given time the number of fits per ship is 3-4 total and the number of ships used in PVP for example is small though CCP has taken steps to improve that in recent years but holding thine breath for AV to be even half as smart as 2 neurons from Monoclegate era CCP is a recipe for hypoxia.

    image
  • HolophonistHolophonist Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 2,086Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phry

    Reminds me of the 'cable tv' joke, 1000 channels and nothing on worth watching.

    Im not sure whether taking off the class restrictions that they had in place will really work tbh, i thought the whole idea of them having the game setup the way they did with classes etc, was to prevent FOTM imbalances. Does this mean that it will have the same disadvantages that DFO had with the horribad afk skill grinding.. i suspect it will. And the return of the 'everyone has the same combat skills' in PvP will no doubt rear its ugly head, what does it matter if there are a bazillion possible combinations, if everyone is just going to go for the most effective ones, which means, there really will only be 1 or 2 viable combinations at best. Hopefully i am wrong, but isn't this exactly what happened before? image

    Huh?? No, it doesn't mean the return of AFK skill grinding. You don't level up skills by using them anymore. 

     

    And no, this isn't what happened before. What happened before was you had access to ALL the skills in the game. There were no tradeoffs. In this, you can pick a maximum of 8 skills and 1 ultimate. It's completely different. Everytime I talk with people about what build they're gonna do, they all say something different. People are excited to be able to play a playstyle they want to play.

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member

    One of my favorite skill system set ups was GW1.  The upcoming change to UW mimics by having you choose your skills from a pool of available skills.  This is going to be great. 

    Also sounds like knives will be getting a buff as well.  I doubt they will be useful in pvp, but will definitely try them out.

«1
Sign In or Register to comment.