And the ocean is filled with salt water......random irrelevant comment is random...
I am very much aware of when the dungeon finder was implemented in WoW....the question was, was WoW the first to do it?.....the answer quite clearly is yes, yes it was....it doesnt matter when it did it, the fact is that it was the first to do it....sheesh
the OP referred to specifically LFG tech - not dungeon finders
game tools to assist you with LFG beyond using chat
thats the only reason i mentioned the DF came years later - WOW had LFG tech but it wasnt a dungeonfinder
I am pretty sure the OP was tlaking about LFG in its current form, you kow, the one that released in 2009. I guess we will let the OP clarify.
Edit: Lets pretend for a moment that he wasnt talking about the LFG tool in its current form....that would be pretty silly, seeing as it would be pretty much the only thing in his entire list that WoW truly invented, and to not have that on his list, would be bonkers...
And the ocean is filled with salt water......random irrelevant comment is random...
I am very much aware of when the dungeon finder was implemented in WoW....the question was, was WoW the first to do it?.....the answer quite clearly is yes, yes it was....it doesnt matter when it did it, the fact is that it was the first to do it....sheesh
the OP referred to specifically LFG tech - not dungeon finders
game tools to assist you with LFG beyond using chat
thats the only reason i mentioned the DF came years later - WOW had LFG tech but it wasnt a dungeonfinder
I am pretty sure the OP was tlaking about LFG in its current form, you kow, the one that released in 2009. I guess we will let the OP clarify.
Edit: Lets pretend for a moment that he wasnt talking about the LFG tool in its current form....that would be pretty silly, seeing as it would be pretty much the only thing in his entire list that WoW truly invented, and to not have that on his list, would be bonkers...
Ok.. so that's it, right? WoW invented the Dungeon Finder Tool with OneClick insta porting.. but nothing else? Well and that is not even a feature but more a convenient tool. Though.. the true strength from Blizzard was alwas redefining already available features, game modes and models and polishing. They are most probably the best development team for doing that.. which they proved in several games like Warcraft/Starcraft(RTS model from Dune2), WoW(MMO Themepark Model from a lot of MMOs before), Hearthstone (TCG from Magic the Gathering).. and now they try it with MOBAs. And Diablo maybe the only unique(or at least not a complete derivate) was bought and called then Blizzard North.
You have to give them credits for redefining and polishing.. but not really for innovation.
Many of WoWs systems came from Ultima/city of heros/everquest and other mmos. What WoW did was found a way to "improve" them as many would say but WoW did not come up with to much original stuff, They just took from other mmos and put them all togeather. Its why every mmo seems like its copying WoW, because WoW copied others lol.
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I thought id jump over here to check with some MMO 'experts' in response to a discussion currently underway on a Wow forum... thats a discussion about what features in MMO gaming did Wow introduce into MMO gaming?
Im sure that the vast knowledge on these forums can shed some light on what MMOs were first to use any of the features below
1. LFG - Looking For Group, tech to find groups.
2. Flex Raiding - a raid which can be made up with variable numbers of players.
3. Flying
4. Rated Battlegrounds - not sure how this can be claimed by Wow as a first lol
5. Challenge Modes - to do dungeons in a timer
6. Phasing - multi layered areas in the MMO world
7. Auction House
8. Crossrealm tech - basically all realms now play out in the world together.
9. Instances
10. Talent tree
11. Seamless mapping - all the zones in 1 large map without loading screens.
Ok lots of these r obviously not created by Wow first but if anyone can tell us what games they remember did them first would be awesome
The only thing on that list that I believe WoW is actually 'first' in, is the LFG / LFR tools. Before then people primarilly relied on chat, and going to town hubs to ask for invites. Rated Battlegrounds are a bit iffy, that might be another first, but it's hard to say (numerous games had that at around the same time).
WoW invented the Dungeon Finder Tool with OneClick insta porting.. but nothing else? Well and that is not even a feature but more a convenient tool. Though.. the true strength from Blizzard was alwas redefining already available features, game modes and models and polishing. They are most probably the best development team for doing that.
You have to give them credits for redefining and polishing.. but not really for innovation.
polish is HUGE -- WOW gave mmos mass appeal (for better or worse)
Wow is the reason the MMO genre today is as bad as it is.
Dont blame WoW for todays level of incompetence in mmo development. Blizzard has done something right and that is make content at the highest level of polish we can have, no matter if it was new or pre-existing content. They are unmatched in terms of polishing the content. If other companies cant match that then they are the problem.
Originally posted by Azmodeus Is there anything wrong with a sim world? I agree everyone will have different opinions on this matter, but did anyone really want online arcade games?
No. Nothing "wrong" with a sim world, except that is not my preference.
And yes, i do want online arcade games ... (if you consider D3 one). Is there anything wrong with an online arcade game?
Originally posted by jircris Many of WoWs systems came from Ultima/city of heros/everquest and other mmos. What WoW did was found a way to "improve" them as many would say but WoW did not come up with to much original stuff, They just took from other mmos and put them all togeather. Its why every mmo seems like its copying WoW, because WoW copied others lol.
Games in a genre copying other successful implementations of other games is a never ending thing. Its also not a bad thing if done properly. Heck, since WoW invented the dungeon finder, here is a list of games that ripped it straight from WoW:
SWTOR
Rift
DCUO
Wildstar
DDO
Tera
EQ2
FFXIV: AAR
LotRO
...I am probably forgetting some as well, as this is just off the top of my head.
Pretty much easy to say WoW was not the first at anything. I know its a common misconception, because of WoWs popularity, but they were 5-8 years late into the market, all they did was make MMOs mainstream. That being said, what WoW did do, was put many of those features into one place, whereas if you are truly looking for the first of this or that, you would need to look at multiple MMOs.
The biggest contributers to MMO "firsts" is:
Meridian 59 - 1996 (8 years before WOW)
Ultima Online - 1997 (7 years before WOW)
Everquest - 1999 (5 years before WOW).
Pretty much those 3 titles did "everything" first, in one form or another, and anything not in those games could still be found before 2004. Asherons Call was about 8 months AFTER Everquest in '99, and Dark Age of Camelot was in '01. Final Fantasy XI was in '03 and hell even Runescape was BEFORE WoW.
Granted, I know I didnt give you any specifics on certain features that you were looking for. But I can pretty much guarantee that WoW was never first at anything. Its just not what WoW did. They took things that worked in other games, made them their own, and put them all together into one place to make a very good, appealing MMO from parts of all the other MMOs.
Pretty much easy to say WoW was not the first at anything.
Granted, I know I didnt give you any specifics on certain features that you were looking for. But I can pretty much guarantee that WoW was never first at anything.
WoW wasnt first at much, but it was 100% first in its dungeon finder, which was subsequently copied by almost every major themepark MMO in existance afterwards.
Dungeon finder is definitely a first for WoW. LFG option in previous MMOs is a different functionality.
Another thing which i thought WoW did first was rested state. Or was there another MMO which came up with this before WoW? WoW had this at launch I think.
Skill trees - honestly I haven't seen this in RPGs/MMORPGs before Diablo 2. But then again someone said that Meridian 59 did this. I have never played that game so god knows.
Another thing is the quest based approach. Obviously everyone will tell you that quests have been in games for like ever. The difference is that WoW made its entire levelling experience based around unique non repeatable quests. I don't think that was the case in ANY MMO before that. Also I am pretty sure the game had the largest number of quests when it launched.
Ooh and btw guys, make sure you are actually looking at the dates various features were implemented NOT when the game was released. So for example if game X had flying mounts in 2009 but was released in 2000 that doesn't mean it had it before WoW lol.
Also about the flying mounts thing, did CoH have like flying mounts? Or did they have superheroes who can fly? Technically that's not the same thing. Cause then I can give shitloads of examples of games where you can fly.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Originally posted by doodphace it was 100% first in its dungeon finder, which was subsequently copied by almost every major themepark MMO in existance afterwards.
gamers will have different opinions but probably most favor dungeonfinders
I dislike dungeon finders because it feels like mmos have become an instanced lobby game
prior to Blizzard's dungeonfinder
-- you would queue for PVP battegrounds but not for PVE
I think Dungeonfinders / Raidfinders are a step backwards for mmos (only my opinion)
Originally posted by doodphace it was 100% first in its dungeon finder, which was subsequently copied by almost every major themepark MMO in existance afterwards.
gamers will have different opinions but probably most favor dungeonfinders
I dislike dungeon finders because it feels like mmos have become an instanced lobby game
prior to Blizzard's dungeonfinder
-- you would queue for PVP battegrounds but not for PVE
I think Dungeonfinders / Raidfinders are a step backwards for mmos (only my opinion)
I understand your point, but also understand that dungeon finders are make or break for people who do not have the time to spam chat for ages looking for groups. Also keep in mind that dungeon finders do not prevent you from finding a group the old fashioned way, and it still happens quite a bit in WoW, especiall challenge mode dungeons (LFG doesnt work for challenge modes or scenerios). All it is, is another option. In SWTOR, I would literally spend 30-45 min on a packed server at launch spamming chat looking for a group as a healer....as soon as they implemented WoW esque LFG, it was seconds before finding a group.
MMOs are what you make them. Having options available, doesn't mean that you have to use them. Not having the option available, on the other hand, just hurts your game in general. (IMO)
Dungeon finders is much needed, we know this from experience, and we know that it works fine enough because of the size of the group and scope for the group ability v requirement. LFR is a frigging train wreck of an idea - 20 random people? Obviously there is a high risk of a raid breaking down with 20 individuals, obviously the solution is to dumb down to lowest common denominator, and therefore destroying any sense of achievment. Raids should be for guilds, dungeons for more casual play (but can still be difficult)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Ende I thought id jump over here to check with some MMO 'experts' in response to a discussion currently underway on a Wow forum... thats a discussion about what features in MMO gaming did Wow introduce into MMO gaming?Im sure that the vast knowledge on these forums can shed some light on what MMOs were first to use any of the features below 1. LFG - Looking For Group, tech to find groups.
This was iterative. its like it was not there, then it was.
First version was table which showed qued individuals. Then it progressed to actually putting those individuals into a group. After that it put together the group, sent you to a dungeon. And finally it went cross realm.
while this was happening various other companies were working at their own solutions to the problem.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Ingame GMs were more common pre-WoW. As MMOs have evolved, now it's easy to do more tasks automated or with tools that are more effective than GM taking avatar to move around the game-world.
Trinity combat comes from tabletop RPGs and predates computer games.
Comments
I am pretty sure the OP was tlaking about LFG in its current form, you kow, the one that released in 2009. I guess we will let the OP clarify.
Edit: Lets pretend for a moment that he wasnt talking about the LFG tool in its current form....that would be pretty silly, seeing as it would be pretty much the only thing in his entire list that WoW truly invented, and to not have that on his list, would be bonkers...
Ok.. so that's it, right? WoW invented the Dungeon Finder Tool with OneClick insta porting.. but nothing else? Well and that is not even a feature but more a convenient tool. Though.. the true strength from Blizzard was alwas redefining already available features, game modes and models and polishing. They are most probably the best development team for doing that.. which they proved in several games like Warcraft/Starcraft(RTS model from Dune2), WoW(MMO Themepark Model from a lot of MMOs before), Hearthstone (TCG from Magic the Gathering).. and now they try it with MOBAs. And Diablo maybe the only unique(or at least not a complete derivate) was bought and called then Blizzard North.
You have to give them credits for redefining and polishing.. but not really for innovation.
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The only thing on that list that I believe WoW is actually 'first' in, is the LFG / LFR tools. Before then people primarilly relied on chat, and going to town hubs to ask for invites. Rated Battlegrounds are a bit iffy, that might be another first, but it's hard to say (numerous games had that at around the same time).
Everything else had been done before
polish is HUGE -- WOW gave mmos mass appeal (for better or worse)
EQ2 fan sites
Dont blame WoW for todays level of incompetence in mmo development. Blizzard has done something right and that is make content at the highest level of polish we can have, no matter if it was new or pre-existing content. They are unmatched in terms of polishing the content. If other companies cant match that then they are the problem.
horizons and shadowbane you could fly.. both released in 2003.
skill trees were in at least asherons call 2..
WoW was good at stealing a ton of features and putting them into one great game
No. Nothing "wrong" with a sim world, except that is not my preference.
And yes, i do want online arcade games ... (if you consider D3 one). Is there anything wrong with an online arcade game?
Games in a genre copying other successful implementations of other games is a never ending thing. Its also not a bad thing if done properly. Heck, since WoW invented the dungeon finder, here is a list of games that ripped it straight from WoW:
SWTOR
Rift
DCUO
Wildstar
DDO
Tera
EQ2
FFXIV: AAR
LotRO
...I am probably forgetting some as well, as this is just off the top of my head.
you could mod EQ UI since around 2002
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches.html
or maybe it was 2003 -- looking at Enchanter messageboard UIs
http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=11&start=50
EQ2 fan sites
Pretty much easy to say WoW was not the first at anything. I know its a common misconception, because of WoWs popularity, but they were 5-8 years late into the market, all they did was make MMOs mainstream. That being said, what WoW did do, was put many of those features into one place, whereas if you are truly looking for the first of this or that, you would need to look at multiple MMOs.
The biggest contributers to MMO "firsts" is:
Meridian 59 - 1996 (8 years before WOW)
Ultima Online - 1997 (7 years before WOW)
Everquest - 1999 (5 years before WOW).
Pretty much those 3 titles did "everything" first, in one form or another, and anything not in those games could still be found before 2004. Asherons Call was about 8 months AFTER Everquest in '99, and Dark Age of Camelot was in '01. Final Fantasy XI was in '03 and hell even Runescape was BEFORE WoW.
Granted, I know I didnt give you any specifics on certain features that you were looking for. But I can pretty much guarantee that WoW was never first at anything. Its just not what WoW did. They took things that worked in other games, made them their own, and put them all together into one place to make a very good, appealing MMO from parts of all the other MMOs.
WoW wasnt first at much, but it was 100% first in its dungeon finder, which was subsequently copied by almost every major themepark MMO in existance afterwards.
Dungeon finder is definitely a first for WoW. LFG option in previous MMOs is a different functionality.
Another thing which i thought WoW did first was rested state. Or was there another MMO which came up with this before WoW? WoW had this at launch I think.
Skill trees - honestly I haven't seen this in RPGs/MMORPGs before Diablo 2. But then again someone said that Meridian 59 did this. I have never played that game so god knows.
Another thing is the quest based approach. Obviously everyone will tell you that quests have been in games for like ever. The difference is that WoW made its entire levelling experience based around unique non repeatable quests. I don't think that was the case in ANY MMO before that. Also I am pretty sure the game had the largest number of quests when it launched.
Ooh and btw guys, make sure you are actually looking at the dates various features were implemented NOT when the game was released. So for example if game X had flying mounts in 2009 but was released in 2000 that doesn't mean it had it before WoW lol.
Also about the flying mounts thing, did CoH have like flying mounts? Or did they have superheroes who can fly? Technically that's not the same thing. Cause then I can give shitloads of examples of games where you can fly.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
gamers will have different opinions but probably most favor dungeonfinders
I dislike dungeon finders because it feels like mmos have become an instanced lobby game
prior to Blizzard's dungeonfinder
-- you would queue for PVP battegrounds but not for PVE
I think Dungeonfinders / Raidfinders are a step backwards for mmos (only my opinion)
EQ2 fan sites
I understand your point, but also understand that dungeon finders are make or break for people who do not have the time to spam chat for ages looking for groups. Also keep in mind that dungeon finders do not prevent you from finding a group the old fashioned way, and it still happens quite a bit in WoW, especiall challenge mode dungeons (LFG doesnt work for challenge modes or scenerios). All it is, is another option. In SWTOR, I would literally spend 30-45 min on a packed server at launch spamming chat looking for a group as a healer....as soon as they implemented WoW esque LFG, it was seconds before finding a group.
MMOs are what you make them. Having options available, doesn't mean that you have to use them. Not having the option available, on the other hand, just hurts your game in general. (IMO)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
This was iterative. its like it was not there, then it was.
First version was table which showed qued individuals.
Then it progressed to actually putting those individuals into a group.
After that it put together the group, sent you to a dungeon.
And finally it went cross realm.
while this was happening various other companies were working at their own solutions to the problem.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Hey guys thanks for the awesome information, much respect to u all
A couple of other items have come up as possibly Wow firsts...?
12. ingame GMS and support tickets.
13.Trinity Combat system
I know for a fact that the trinity system came about with the original EQ. The developers original trinity I believe was Warrior/Cleric/Enchanter.
The game has changed a lot over the years but still uses a tank/healer/dps trinity. Enchanters just have no use anymore, the poor guys.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
EQ, DAOC and other mmos had ingame GMs and Guides
you would even see these players sometimes - while playing the game
Everquest Guide program http://guide_info.tripod.com/
I remember getting a free rez by a Guide as he was passing through the zone
I *never* saw a WOW GM unless it was related to ticket
EQ2 fan sites
wow was 1st at nothing and leader of all
but do i dare to ask ..why the the list of "1st at XXX?"
Ingame GMs were more common pre-WoW. As MMOs have evolved, now it's easy to do more tasks automated or with tools that are more effective than GM taking avatar to move around the game-world.
Trinity combat comes from tabletop RPGs and predates computer games.
I've heard lots of people in these forums say that about people who like wow though.