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Solo (lol) MMORPGs shouldn't have forced group contents .

iixviiiixiixviiiix GSPosts: 836Member Uncommon

From start of game to level 20 , you solo questing .

Then at level 20 the game force you group to finish dungeon quests.

manage to get pass the level 20 dungeon after finish it 1 time and never look back

then after 10 level solo , another dungeon force player to group lol .

Then solo 10 more levels , another force group contents appear .

 

Then after 10 more solo levels .... after 10 more  ... after ... 10 ... after ....

 

Okay , i don't know why they keep this retard design around .

If the game design total for solo , then why add group contents ? It feel like sweet candy with salt at core , seriously .

If they going to make solo MMORPGs from the start , never add forced group contents.

 

No trading (no bots lol) , no AH , no forced group . If they want to create solo (lol) MMORPGs.

 

Then how they disguised they game as MMORPGs to draw the crowd ?

Simple , the town are place where players see other ,

there are chat box for players to chat with other .

Players can make party at town

And when player join party , they become weaker so the contents become harder and more challenge . And the reward are same as solo playing.

They still Massively (at town and chat box ) multiplayer (optional) online (DRM lol) role-playing game

But build total for solo with multiplayer option.

 

No trading = no worry about bot , no worry about cheat , no more accounts hack .

Wonderful MMORPGs (lol) , so why keep (Forced) group contents when you build your MMORPG total for solo play ?

 

Yes! my question is

why keep (Forced) group contents when you build your MMORPG total for solo play ?

Seriously , who want sweet candy with salt at core ?

 

 

«1345

Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    The game is an attempt to create a hybrid between MMOS and single player games and the two designs clash glaringly at many times during gameplay, such as you mentioned with the infrequent dungeon content.

    Same goes for the mini bosses in the open world you need to group for, and as I understand it more and more they are making the VR content more group centric than solo.

    I think it would be better for titles to not try to cater to all, I'd prefer they start out as either group centric from the start, with game designs that strongly supported and encouraged grouping, or began as a solo experience with largely instanced content that was solo oriented and then stayed that way for good.

    Create either a very social,good grouping game, or a well built solo experience, but stop trying cater to both, ends up creating a mediocre experience for both designs.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    I find it dumb that you're playing a solo game and then bam there is a boss or dungeon or whatever that requires grouping.   A lot of times grouping at least at lower levels is just about numbers not so much tactics.  
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,116Member Uncommon

    What I find strange is people that play massively multiplayer games yet really want to solo like it was a single player game...

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  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by iixviiiix

    then after 10 level solo , another dungeon force player to group lol .

    what's so funny? Tell me so I can laugh too.

     

    on topic: You are right, MMOs should not allow solo leveling. It dilutes the MMO experience so much that it's hard to tell if it's a single-player with MMO stuff tossed in or an MMO with singleplayer stuff to close gaps.

     

    It's not what you meant to point out but it's actually a fundamental flaw with present MMOs.

     

    Many years ago in Heroic Mechanar I asked a hunter to freeze a mob. He replied "Let me find it in my spellbook".

     

    I was horrified back then but now...even realising he has that ability, and realising he has a spellbook is an achievements not all hunters are capable of. He at least processed the info enough to find the spell and put it on his bars instead of replying with "lol you need cc, shit tank" or better, with some 4chan'ish insults.

     

    We're living sad times in this genre. Truly a dark age of MMOs.

    image

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    I've never played an mmo solo. Why does it matter so much that other people have ? Is it the game that's built wrong or the people who can't make friends unless others are forced to play with them ?
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Asm0deus

    What I find strange is people that play massively multiplayer games yet really want to solo like it was a single player game...

     

    People thinking that MMORPG's have to have grouped combat to be social are far more of a problem then those wanting solo combat.  I guess the shallow nature of the genre leads if you group up in combat you're not being social.   Forced grouped combat is only one method of doing but many of the social experiences I had were in games you could solo combat like UO and SWG.  

  • HarikenHariken Brighton, MAPosts: 984Member Uncommon
    The one thing in GW2 that pissed me off. You solo your personal story all the way to the end and the last part you have to find a group for it. So many players freaked about this and they still refuse to change it. So now no one does the personal story anymore. Its called your story and it never really is. The very last mission you have to find a group. Mmo companies are all about the money thats why they mix in every kind of gameplay in the game. And it fails most of the time.  And i will never understand mixing PVP and PVE. It just really seems stupid to me.
  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
    Originally posted by Asm0deus

    What I find strange is people that play massively multiplayer games yet really want to solo like it was a single player game...

     

    People thinking that MMORPG's have to have grouped combat to be social are far more of a problem then those wanting solo combat.  I guess the shallow nature of the genre leads if you group up in combat you're not being social.   Forced grouped combat is only one method of doing but many of the social experiences I had were in games you could solo combat like UO and SWG.  

    Also, all MMORPGs can be social.  Its the people that have changed far more than the games.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    I've never played a game that forced me to play solo our forced me to do the dungeon. If I did then it was because I wanted to. I dont know you ate taking about.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • Swids2010Swids2010 plymouthPosts: 244Member

    Yes MMORPG's should have forced group content if you can complete the whole game solo then it shouldn't be called a MMORPG its just a RPG

    image
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Guess you missed the whole there are many other ways to interact and be social argument than just grouping.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon
    Playing in Craglorn in ESO reminds me of FFXI with forced grouping.  You get 24 people together and go rampant on the quests.  It's really easy with that many people, but it sure is fun to talk to others :)
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by iixviiiix

    From start of game to level 20 , you solo questing .

    Then at level 20 the game force you group to finish dungeon quests.

    manage to get pass the level 20 dungeon after finish it 1 time and never look back

    then after 10 level solo , another dungeon force player to group lol .

    Then solo 10 more levels , another force group contents appear .

     

    Then after 10 more solo levels .... after 10 more  ... after ... 10 ... after ....

     

    Okay , i don't know why they keep this retard design around .

    If the game design total for solo , then why add group contents ? It feel like sweet candy with salt at core , seriously .

    If they going to make solo MMORPGs from the start , never add forced group contents.

     

    No trading (no bots lol) , no AH , no forced group . If they want to create solo (lol) MMORPGs.

     

    Then how they disguised they game as MMORPGs to draw the crowd ?

    Simple , the town are place where players see other ,

    there are chat box for players to chat with other .

    Players can make party at town

    And when player join party , they become weaker so the contents become harder and more challenge . And the reward are same as solo playing.

    They still Massively (at town and chat box ) multiplayer (optional) online (DRM lol) role-playing game

    But build total for solo with multiplayer option.

     

    No trading = no worry about bot , no worry about cheat , no more accounts hack .

    Wonderful MMORPGs (lol) , so why keep (Forced) group contents when you build your MMORPG total for solo play ?

     

    Yes! my question is

    why keep (Forced) group contents when you build your MMORPG total for solo play ?

    Seriously , who want sweet candy with salt at core ?

     

     

    You are confused. MMO were never designed for solo.

     

    the filler content was designed for solo, since sits filler content and meaningless. That's why in most MMO, you notice the only solo parts are the leveling part of the game, and not the meaningful endgame content.

    image

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Well since most people don't get up endgame and endgame is arguable complained about more than the rest of the game we could definitely argue that the endgame is meaningless content. I definitely thinkso anyway.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kyleran
    The game is an attempt to create a hybrid between MMOS and single player games and the two designs clash glaringly at many times during gameplay, such as you mentioned with the infrequent dungeon content.

    Same goes for the mini bosses in the open world you need to group for, and as I understand it more and more they are making the VR content more group centric than solo.

    I think it would be better for titles to not try to cater to all, I'd prefer they start out as either group centric from the start, with game designs that strongly supported and encouraged grouping, or began as a solo experience with largely instanced content that was solo oriented and then stayed that way for good.

    Create either a very social,good grouping game, or a well built solo experience, but stop trying cater to both, ends up creating a mediocre experience for both designs.

    What is weird to me is that some of the first games (Lineage and Asheron's Call for examples) had a great system where people could play and progress both solo and grouped. There weren't weird artificial barriers to either. You didn't have to do content in any preconceived size. If two or three people were good enough they could go into very difficult areas and be successful. If you wanted to go with many people for safety and ease you could. If you were a great player you could go solo tons of stuff.

    The design template is there, but developers choose a simpler more confined method to designing content. Then again those early games weren't really heavy on scripted instanced content and quests. Maybe that's a huge factor in the design paradigm.

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Asm0deus

    What I find strange is people that play massively multiplayer games yet really want to solo like it was a single player game...

    [mod edit]

    I really like how you phrase things.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    You are confused. MMO were never designed for solo.

    the filler content was designed for solo, since sits filler content and meaningless. That's why in most MMO, you notice the only solo parts are the leveling part of the game, and not the meaningful endgame content.

    No, this time you are wrong. MMOs now aren't designed for solo-centric progression. At one time there was no arbitrary line defining playstyles. There was just content in the open world and you could play and progress with whatever number of players you wanted.

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Halifax, NSPosts: 777Member Uncommon
    I, personally, disagree entirely with this post. I think solo play should be a minor side feature in a group-based game, so those who can't find more than an 30 mins to 1 hour on occasion can still make SOME progression. I would never want a game that's entirely one or the other, though.
  • GhavriggGhavrigg Halifax, NSPosts: 777Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    You are confused. MMO were never designed for solo.

    the filler content was designed for solo, since sits filler content and meaningless. That's why in most MMO, you notice the only solo parts are the leveling part of the game, and not the meaningful endgame content.

    No, this time you are wrong. MMOs now aren't designed for solo-centric progression. At one time there was no arbitrary line defining playstyles. There was just content in the open world and you could play and progress with whatever number of players you wanted.

    They were designed no differently than today, really. If you didn't group, you were cut off to parts of the game that were too hard to solo, at least at the appropriate level, gear, whatever range, but soloing was possible, though a slower form of progression.

    They're pretty close in speed nowadays, though.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by iixviiiix

    Yes! my question is

    why keep (Forced) group contents when you build your MMORPG total for solo play ?

    Seriously , who want sweet candy with salt at core ?

     

     

    hmm .. there are games that don't .. like Diablo 3, and Marvel Heroes.

  • kabitoshinkabitoshin Posts: 758Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Asm0deus

    What I find strange is people that play massively multiplayer games yet really want to solo like it was a single player game...

    Honestly if I could find a SP with a massive world as some MMO's with fun PvE and updates every couple months I'd be done with this genre.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by iixviiiix

    From start of game to level 20 , you solo questing .

    Then at level 20 the game force you group to finish dungeon quests.

    manage to get pass the level 20 dungeon after finish it 1 time and never look back

    then after 10 level solo , another dungeon force player to group lol .

    Then solo 10 more levels , another force group contents appear .

     

    Then after 10 more solo levels .... after 10 more  ... after ... 10 ... after ....

     

    Okay , i don't know why they keep this retard design around .

    If the game design total for solo , then why add group contents ? It feel like sweet candy with salt at core , seriously .

    If they going to make solo MMORPGs from the start , never add forced group contents.

     

    No trading (no bots lol) , no AH , no forced group . If they want to create solo (lol) MMORPGs.

     

    Then how they disguised they game as MMORPGs to draw the crowd ?

    Simple , the town are place where players see other ,

    there are chat box for players to chat with other .

    Players can make party at town

    And when player join party , they become weaker so the contents become harder and more challenge . And the reward are same as solo playing.

    They still Massively (at town and chat box ) multiplayer (optional) online (DRM lol) role-playing game

    But build total for solo with multiplayer option.

     

    No trading = no worry about bot , no worry about cheat , no more accounts hack .

    Wonderful MMORPGs (lol) , so why keep (Forced) group contents when you build your MMORPG total for solo play ?

     

    Yes! my question is

    why keep (Forced) group contents when you build your MMORPG total for solo play ?

    Seriously , who want sweet candy with salt at core ?

     

     

    You are confused. MMO were never designed for solo.

     

    the filler content was designed for solo, since sits filler content and meaningless. That's why in most MMO, you notice the only solo parts are the leveling part of the game, and not the meaningful endgame content.

     

    There are a handful of MMORPGs that have majority forced grouped combat.  There hundreds that are solo combat.  Even EQ's community was more built around slow leveling, downtime and difficult.  

  • KopogeroKopogero Shevat, ONPosts: 897Member Uncommon

    I agree with OP and only in freedom friendly, sandbox worlds players can exceed in their specific role to do tasks that others would require to do together. In a themepark worlds where they are more directed how the player can approach them usually doesn't work that.

    For instance, me being a power light jedi knight. I find a rare, random krayt dragon patrolling the deserts of Tatooine. This powerful dragon required a squad of players to tackle it, but me with my powers I could manage it solo. So as I fought with it a squad came and whoever did the most damage to the creature was worthy of its loot.

    So yes, that is one example of a freedom and not a forced group content.

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Eglin AFB, FLPosts: 658Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ghavrigg
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    You are confused. MMO were never designed for solo.

    the filler content was designed for solo, since sits filler content and meaningless. That's why in most MMO, you notice the only solo parts are the leveling part of the game, and not the meaningful endgame content.

    No, this time you are wrong. MMOs now aren't designed for solo-centric progression. At one time there was no arbitrary line defining playstyles. There was just content in the open world and you could play and progress with whatever number of players you wanted.

    They were designed no differently than today, really. If you didn't group, you were cut off to parts of the game that were too hard to solo, at least at the appropriate level, gear, whatever range, but soloing was possible, though a slower form of progression.

    They're pretty close in speed nowadays, though.

    That's the problem.  While grouping shouldn't be an insta-accelerate button for leveling or grinding rep/honor/what have you, it's potential should be much higher than the solo progression's potential.  It's not.  ESO is probably the worst culprit I've seen of this: doing a rather challenging, instanced group dungeon (including the quest turn-in for completion) was literally the worst way to level.  It also provided very, very little in the way of monetary or loot rewards.  It was, overall, a complete waste of time to build that group and complete that dungeon.  That's just silly.

    Grouping should be the fastest method of leveling/grinding in the game when done effectively, period.  To provide a solo option that competes with having a good group is doing a disservice to what it originally meant to be an MMO, in my opinion.  It may look good on the box sales initially to have such a design in place, but it won't really last or make a permanent imprint on the field.

    image
  • GhavriggGhavrigg Halifax, NSPosts: 777Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MadFrenchie
    Originally posted by Ghavrigg
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    You are confused. MMO were never designed for solo.

    the filler content was designed for solo, since sits filler content and meaningless. That's why in most MMO, you notice the only solo parts are the leveling part of the game, and not the meaningful endgame content.

    No, this time you are wrong. MMOs now aren't designed for solo-centric progression. At one time there was no arbitrary line defining playstyles. There was just content in the open world and you could play and progress with whatever number of players you wanted.

    They were designed no differently than today, really. If you didn't group, you were cut off to parts of the game that were too hard to solo, at least at the appropriate level, gear, whatever range, but soloing was possible, though a slower form of progression.

    They're pretty close in speed nowadays, though.

    That's the problem.  While grouping shouldn't be an insta-accelerate button for leveling or grinding rep/honor/what have you, it's potential should be much higher than the solo progression's potential.  It's not.  ESO is probably the worst culprit I've seen of this: doing a rather challenging, instanced group dungeon (including the quest turn-in for completion) was literally the worst way to level.  It also provided very, very little in the way of monetary or loot rewards.  It was, overall, a complete waste of time to build that group and complete that dungeon.  That's just silly.

    Grouping should be the fastest method of leveling/grinding in the game when done effectively, period.  To provide a solo option that competes with having a good group is doing a disservice to what it originally meant to be an MMO, in my opinion.  It may look good on the box sales initially to have such a design in place, but it won't really last or make a permanent imprint on the field.

    Exactly.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Except it has made a permanent imprint and lasting impression. Those gangs last years. The original mmorpg games had soloing had a viable and real option. Eq broke that design. They are now coming back to their roots.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

«1345
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