Agree fully. Console games should stay console games, and PC games PC. I left console long ago because I wanted something more complex then joystick with few buttons.
Oh my god, this whole PC master race is just ridiculous and shows that some of your have the maturity of a 12 year old.
Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps. Current games we see are not representative of the capabilities of this new generation.
And can you please stop talking like there are no hardware limitations when designing for the PC. Trust me no one designs a game with the 2% super high end PCs in mind. They are tons of games coming out that run on Core 2 Duos which is technology as old as the last generation consoles.
You guys spent $5k on a 100 billion core CPU with a GDRR5000 GPU and 1000GB Ram? Good for you. Games are designed for low end to mid end pcs in mind. Also have you seen the way MMOs look? They look like a piece of shit! All MMO games look horrible compared to other high end graphics games which btw run perfectly fine on consoles.
Have you seen ESO? That game looks worse than Skyrim which is a game from 2011.
Actually, no, they can't. Increasingly consoles are relegated to running at just 30fps, which is barely acceptable, even worse, they do so, particularly in the case of the Xbone, at barely more than 720p, which really can't be considered to be HD.
The reason is fairly simple, hardware limitations, the Xbone suffers worse than the PS4 simply because it is unable to utilise gddr5 ram, which is, if you hadn't noticed, what all modern GPU's are using, for games its practically a necessity, and the fact that the CPU is only 1.6ghz is also a limiting factor, doesn't matter how many of them there are, it still means that where the GPU is limited, the CPU is unable to take up the slack. Why else do you think that PC's are able to run games in such high definition with frame rates that will forever be unattainable by the current next gen consoles, in what way can an 8 core 1.6ghz CPU possibly be compared to a 4+ core 3.0+ ghz CPU in a PC? and we're not even talking about high end gaming PC's here, but just mid range PC's that would cost well under $1000 to build. This has everything to do with why PC's often run these games at 60+ fps at full 1080 HD, and oddly enough, why the next gen consoles.. can't, and its not because they don't want to.
Metro 2033 has been confirmed to run 1080p at 60fps on PS4. Trust me you need more than a medium range PC to max out that game at 60fps.
Developers are only just beginning to find out what they can do with the new consoles. Games are not very optimised and the current game engines do not lend themselves to too many cores.
With the specs that PS4 has I fail to see how it will be unable to run games at 1080p at 60 fps. It has plenty of GDDR5 ram, has 8 cores which while not at a high frequency (tbh I haven't found info on the frequency) is still a lot of cores. And the GPU is okay too.
Or is your entire post based on how the Xbox one can't run games at 60 fps? Haven't looked that much into the Xbox one to be honest.
Killzone was 'confirmed' 1080p, 60fps prior to launch...
I agree that as the system ages graphical fidelity will improve as developers drain every last drop of performance from the machine (which arguably will see a smaller improvement than the ps3 saw throughout it's lifetime) and employ the good old tricks (lower fov etc).
Lets not even get into the 'Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps', which - coming from someone who has a ps4 - is a complete lie (running at 60fps when stationary with no action is a massive difference from an action packed screen (hell, forget action packed how many fps dips do you notice playing games on the new consoles that are pushing the graphics?), to say all consoles run at 60fps in every game is farcical and undermines your own point more so when there are games capped below 60fps). Correct me if I'm wrong, but Watchdogs PS4...900p, 30fps....
The cores on the PS4 iirc are 1.6Ghz. The reason it is failing to run modern high end games at 60fps in all cases is it's price point forcing cheaper components and as such a ceiling on what is achievable. A few years ago yes, this would have run most games, if not all, at 60fps, however games continue to get more and more demanding as new effects are added and utilised.
The XBoxOne is even further behind.
Regarding the OP, no I don't think consoles will hurt the genre. To think they will is naive, the PC MMORPG scene, to many, has been in free fall for the better part of a decade with the concept of virtual worlds slowly giving way to single player experiences alongside others. If anything it will bring more money into the genre and hopefully some new ideas, some of them even possibly being good!
The MMORPG genre has changed a great deal from what is was originally and will no doubt continue to do so in the future. It may just evolve to no longer be appealing to some of it's fans.
Do you know with how many fps KIllzone runs on PC? 0? If you have a PC, you can't even play the game.
Can you show me the kind of PC you would need to run Metro at 60fps at 1080p at ALL times? Cause that's not going to be that cheap. Of course, they could've packed £1000 (about $1680-1700) worth of hardware in the consoles but who would buy them?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Multiplatform games usually suck since they are a compromise to work on several different platforms with different input devices (mouse, gamecontrolers).
But I don't think single platform games will be affected negatively.
Oh my god, this whole PC master race is just ridiculous and shows that some of your have the maturity of a 12 year old.
Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps. Current games we see are not representative of the capabilities of this new generation.
And can you please stop talking like there are no hardware limitations when designing for the PC. Trust me no one designs a game with the 2% super high end PCs in mind. They are tons of games coming out that run on Core 2 Duos which is technology as old as the last generation consoles.
You guys spent $5k on a 100 billion core CPU with a GDRR5000 GPU and 1000GB Ram? Good for you. Games are designed for low end to mid end pcs in mind. Also have you seen the way MMOs look? They look like a piece of shit! All MMO games look horrible compared to other high end graphics games which btw run perfectly fine on consoles.
Have you seen ESO? That game looks worse than Skyrim which is a game from 2011.
Actually, no, they can't. Increasingly consoles are relegated to running at just 30fps, which is barely acceptable, even worse, they do so, particularly in the case of the Xbone, at barely more than 720p, which really can't be considered to be HD.
The reason is fairly simple, hardware limitations, the Xbone suffers worse than the PS4 simply because it is unable to utilise gddr5 ram, which is, if you hadn't noticed, what all modern GPU's are using, for games its practically a necessity, and the fact that the CPU is only 1.6ghz is also a limiting factor, doesn't matter how many of them there are, it still means that where the GPU is limited, the CPU is unable to take up the slack. Why else do you think that PC's are able to run games in such high definition with frame rates that will forever be unattainable by the current next gen consoles, in what way can an 8 core 1.6ghz CPU possibly be compared to a 4+ core 3.0+ ghz CPU in a PC? and we're not even talking about high end gaming PC's here, but just mid range PC's that would cost well under $1000 to build. This has everything to do with why PC's often run these games at 60+ fps at full 1080 HD, and oddly enough, why the next gen consoles.. can't, and its not because they don't want to.
Metro 2033 has been confirmed to run 1080p at 60fps on PS4. Trust me you need more than a medium range PC to max out that game at 60fps.
Developers are only just beginning to find out what they can do with the new consoles. Games are not very optimised and the current game engines do not lend themselves to too many cores.
With the specs that PS4 has I fail to see how it will be unable to run games at 1080p at 60 fps. It has plenty of GDDR5 ram, has 8 cores which while not at a high frequency (tbh I haven't found info on the frequency) is still a lot of cores. And the GPU is okay too.
Or is your entire post based on how the Xbox one can't run games at 60 fps? Haven't looked that much into the Xbox one to be honest.
Killzone was 'confirmed' 1080p, 60fps prior to launch...
I agree that as the system ages graphical fidelity will improve as developers drain every last drop of performance from the machine (which arguably will see a smaller improvement than the ps3 saw throughout it's lifetime) and employ the good old tricks (lower fov etc).
Lets not even get into the 'Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps', which - coming from someone who has a ps4 - is a complete lie (running at 60fps when stationary with no action is a massive difference from an action packed screen (hell, forget action packed how many fps dips do you notice playing games on the new consoles that are pushing the graphics?), to say all consoles run at 60fps in every game is farcical and undermines your own point more so when there are games capped below 60fps). Correct me if I'm wrong, but Watchdogs PS4...900p, 30fps....
The cores on the PS4 iirc are 1.6Ghz. The reason it is failing to run modern high end games at 60fps in all cases is it's price point forcing cheaper components and as such a ceiling on what is achievable. A few years ago yes, this would have run most games, if not all, at 60fps, however games continue to get more and more demanding as new effects are added and utilised.
The XBoxOne is even further behind.
Regarding the OP, no I don't think consoles will hurt the genre. To think they will is naive, the PC MMORPG scene, to many, has been in free fall for the better part of a decade with the concept of virtual worlds slowly giving way to single player experiences alongside others. If anything it will bring more money into the genre and hopefully some new ideas, some of them even possibly being good!
The MMORPG genre has changed a great deal from what is was originally and will no doubt continue to do so in the future. It may just evolve to no longer be appealing to some of it's fans.
Do you know with how many fps KIllzone runs on PC? 0? If you have a PC, you can't even play the game.
Can you show me the kind of PC you would need to run Metro at 60fps at 1080p at ALL times? Cause that's not going to be that cheap. Of course, they could've packed £1000 (about $1680-1700) worth of hardware in the consoles but who would buy them?
To run games on PC at 1080p 60FPS you probably need something like a core i5, a GTX 660/760, and 8 gig of RAM. You could probably built it for around 700-1000 dollars. I don't have a problem with consoles, but they will struggle to put out 1080p at 60 FPS regardless of how well the games are optimized for the hardware. The hardware is just not very good by modern standards. On the flip side it looks good enough for most people. I was playing games on both my PC and Xbox 360 last gen and the games on Xbox 360 seemed to be struggling to output even 30FPS on many games. It hurt my eyes to look at the screen. I played the same games on my PC at 1080p 60FPS and didn't experience the issues with my eyes hurting from looking at the screen.
Multiplatform games usually suck since they are a compromise to work on several different platforms with different input devices (mouse, gamecontrolers).
But I don't think single platform games will be affected negatively.
I don't agree with this. I play mostly games that are cross platform these days on PC and they are all fun to play and run almost flawlessly on PC. If we want games that are as complex as what PC games were originally like then we have to sacrifice graphics. There are a lot of indie games available on Steam like that if you can tolerate the older looking graphics.
No I personally don't think they will harm the MMO genre, but they will harm the games that do take console into consideration.
It could however bring some new blood into the genre from consoles wanting to taste a real MMO running on some hardware that's not out of a box of cereal like the "next gen" machines we have today.
Do you know with how many fps KIllzone runs on PC? 0? If you have a PC, you can't even play the game.
Can you show me the kind of PC you would need to run Metro at 60fps at 1080p at ALL times? Cause that's not going to be that cheap. Of course, they could've packed £1000 (about $1680-1700) worth of hardware in the consoles but who would buy them?
You are right Killzone never released on the PC, I was using that as a foil to your argument that they have confirmed 1080p 60fps, a claim that has been made many times in the past and then been rescinded as it wasn't possible to achieve.
Or are you claiming Killzone was held back from PC because it was too advanced for that platform?
We don't even know the quality disparity between the different redux version platform releases (turning off a lot of the post processing effects etc and yes my computer of 2 years could breeze 60fps at 1080, and it wasn't $1680-1700 back then let alone what it would cost now). Let alone how they will compare to the originals. I would be shocked if the console versions didn't perform better for their price point, I don't think anyone would argue that.
However the PS4 isn't quite the enormous upgrade many were expecting over the PS3 given almost a decade between them, yes it's an upgrade, and for many (myself included) that's more than enough without the need to become delusional about how limited the hardware may be in comparison to what is out there.
Consoles will save the MMORPG genre, they will expand mmos past European fantasy. Look at Destiny, The Crew and the Division. We will start to see great console mmos at the end of the PS4/XB1 generation and the generation following will be able to rival anything the PC has to offer.
You can quote me on that
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Oh my god, this whole PC master race is just ridiculous and shows that some of your have the maturity of a 12 year old.
Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps. Current games we see are not representative of the capabilities of this new generation.
And can you please stop talking like there are no hardware limitations when designing for the PC. Trust me no one designs a game with the 2% super high end PCs in mind. They are tons of games coming out that run on Core 2 Duos which is technology as old as the last generation consoles.
You guys spent $5k on a 100 billion core CPU with a GDRR5000 GPU and 1000GB Ram? Good for you. Games are designed for low end to mid end pcs in mind. Also have you seen the way MMOs look? They look like a piece of shit! All MMO games look horrible compared to other high end graphics games which btw run perfectly fine on consoles.
Have you seen ESO? That game looks worse than Skyrim which is a game from 2011.
Actually, no, they can't. Increasingly consoles are relegated to running at just 30fps, which is barely acceptable, even worse, they do so, particularly in the case of the Xbone, at barely more than 720p, which really can't be considered to be HD.
The reason is fairly simple, hardware limitations, the Xbone suffers worse than the PS4 simply because it is unable to utilise gddr5 ram, which is, if you hadn't noticed, what all modern GPU's are using, for games its practically a necessity, and the fact that the CPU is only 1.6ghz is also a limiting factor, doesn't matter how many of them there are, it still means that where the GPU is limited, the CPU is unable to take up the slack. Why else do you think that PC's are able to run games in such high definition with frame rates that will forever be unattainable by the current next gen consoles, in what way can an 8 core 1.6ghz CPU possibly be compared to a 4+ core 3.0+ ghz CPU in a PC? and we're not even talking about high end gaming PC's here, but just mid range PC's that would cost well under $1000 to build. This has everything to do with why PC's often run these games at 60+ fps at full 1080 HD, and oddly enough, why the next gen consoles.. can't, and its not because they don't want to.
Metro 2033 has been confirmed to run 1080p at 60fps on PS4. Trust me you need more than a medium range PC to max out that game at 60fps.
Off course you will. Even the current Metro 2033 requires a medium range PC let alone the new upcoming revamp.
But I don't think you will need more then a medium range PC to get the same graphics (at 1080p and 60 fps) as the PS4.
(unless your definition of medium range is the average pc people have according to the Steam survey)
I don't think all that many MMORPGs will be ported to consoles. A handful will, yes, but I'd expect most MMORPGs to remain PC-only. DRM is the primary reason for game consoles to still exist, and MMORPGs already have all they need in that regard simply by virtue of players having to connect to the company's servers to play the game.
No, I think Consoles are going to help the mmorpg. I believe its the main reason why games like ff11 lasted so long. It gives the gamer a cheaper alternative to gaming. Not every one can afford a top notch rig or laptop. I will be playing eso, ff14, wildstar, and neverwinter on console when they come out.
They already did and they will continue to do so. I can't understand how console fanboys like these kind of dumbed down gaming with 5 buttons and the akward interfaces we have been seeing in the last wave of craptastic MMOs.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Comments
Agree fully. Console games should stay console games, and PC games PC. I left console long ago because I wanted something more complex then joystick with few buttons.
If a MMO is also for console, I won't buy it. Why? Because I know that it will lack the depth & complexity that I need in order to have fun.
Do you know with how many fps KIllzone runs on PC? 0? If you have a PC, you can't even play the game.
Can you show me the kind of PC you would need to run Metro at 60fps at 1080p at ALL times? Cause that's not going to be that cheap. Of course, they could've packed £1000 (about $1680-1700) worth of hardware in the consoles but who would buy them?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Multiplatform games usually suck since they are a compromise to work on several different platforms with different input devices (mouse, gamecontrolers).
But I don't think single platform games will be affected negatively.
To run games on PC at 1080p 60FPS you probably need something like a core i5, a GTX 660/760, and 8 gig of RAM. You could probably built it for around 700-1000 dollars. I don't have a problem with consoles, but they will struggle to put out 1080p at 60 FPS regardless of how well the games are optimized for the hardware. The hardware is just not very good by modern standards. On the flip side it looks good enough for most people. I was playing games on both my PC and Xbox 360 last gen and the games on Xbox 360 seemed to be struggling to output even 30FPS on many games. It hurt my eyes to look at the screen. I played the same games on my PC at 1080p 60FPS and didn't experience the issues with my eyes hurting from looking at the screen.
I don't agree with this. I play mostly games that are cross platform these days on PC and they are all fun to play and run almost flawlessly on PC. If we want games that are as complex as what PC games were originally like then we have to sacrifice graphics. There are a lot of indie games available on Steam like that if you can tolerate the older looking graphics.
The players will, not the consoles.
No I personally don't think they will harm the MMO genre, but they will harm the games that do take console into consideration.
It could however bring some new blood into the genre from consoles wanting to taste a real MMO running on some hardware that's not out of a box of cereal like the "next gen" machines we have today.
You are right Killzone never released on the PC, I was using that as a foil to your argument that they have confirmed 1080p 60fps, a claim that has been made many times in the past and then been rescinded as it wasn't possible to achieve.
Or are you claiming Killzone was held back from PC because it was too advanced for that platform?
We don't even know the quality disparity between the different redux version platform releases (turning off a lot of the post processing effects etc and yes my computer of 2 years could breeze 60fps at 1080, and it wasn't $1680-1700 back then let alone what it would cost now). Let alone how they will compare to the originals. I would be shocked if the console versions didn't perform better for their price point, I don't think anyone would argue that.
However the PS4 isn't quite the enormous upgrade many were expecting over the PS3 given almost a decade between them, yes it's an upgrade, and for many (myself included) that's more than enough without the need to become delusional about how limited the hardware may be in comparison to what is out there.
Consoles will save the MMORPG genre, they will expand mmos past European fantasy. Look at Destiny, The Crew and the Division. We will start to see great console mmos at the end of the PS4/XB1 generation and the generation following will be able to rival anything the PC has to offer.
You can quote me on that
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Off course you will. Even the current Metro 2033 requires a medium range PC let alone the new upcoming revamp.
But I don't think you will need more then a medium range PC to get the same graphics (at 1080p and 60 fps) as the PS4.
(unless your definition of medium range is the average pc people have according to the Steam survey)
Edgar F Greenwood
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?