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Are consoles going to hurt the MMORPG genre?

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  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
     Unlike you people on PC - I HAVE VIBRATE.

    ha - nice

  • ChicagoCubChicagoCub Chicago, ILPosts: 301Member

    10 fingers vs. four.  You tell me.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Greenwich, CTPosts: 2,837Member Uncommon
    I would argue that MMO combat has already been dumbed down to the point where it is easier regardless of amount of buttons.  Dark Souls is a controller only game and it's combat/strategy is more complex then pretty much any MMO you will see out today.  Unfortunately the day when MMOs were primarily very complex real time turn based games seems to be over.  Now you generally win without having to put in much effort.  If you fail to win you can always pull out your credit card.
  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    The mmo genre hurts the mmo genre because mmos are not that good anymore. Everything is the same game with a different theme settings, rehashed ideas and just about everything is dumbed down for the masses. People just turn to other games or even different platforms for their gaming entertainment because mmos have become pretty disappointing. 
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  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    It already has, just look at the recent games.

    Doesn't really add up considering they're not much different than games releasing for the PC only, going all the way back to 05. IE GW1, The Matrix OL, COH/V ( outside of deep character building it was a very shallow game especially environmentally not unlike the matrix MMO), so on and so forth. YOu're blaming consoles for what was essentially caused by chasing the casual market WOW style.

    How many MMO's actually try and release on consoles? I can think of just a few... FF, DCUO, AOC and ESO. The rest seem to have no plans what so ever of doing so.

    Again the pursuit of the casual market is what people should really be blaming here, not consoles.

     

     

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  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    It already has, just look at the recent games.

    Doesn't really add up considering they're not much different than games releasing for the PC only, going all the way back to 05. IE GW1, The Matrix OL, COH/V ( outside of deep character building it was a very shallow game especially environmentally not unlike the matrix MMO), so on and so forth. YOu're blaming consoles for what was essentially caused by chasing the casual market WOW style.

    How many MMO's actually try and release on consoles? I can think of just a few... FF, DCUO, AOC and ESO. The rest seem to have no plans what so ever of doing so.

    Again the pursuit of the casual market is what people should really be blaming here, not consoles.

     

     

    Many of the recent mmo have been designed with limitation due to having to be compatible with controllers and to work with consoles.

    There is no denying they are trying to tap into the console market and it is affecting how they make mmo.

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  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    It already has, just look at the recent games.

    Doesn't really add up considering they're not much different than games releasing for the PC only, going all the way back to 05. IE GW1, The Matrix OL, COH/V ( outside of deep character building it was a very shallow game especially environmentally not unlike the matrix MMO), so on and so forth. YOu're blaming consoles for what was essentially caused by chasing the casual market WOW style.

    How many MMO's actually try and release on consoles? I can think of just a few... FF, DCUO, AOC and ESO. The rest seem to have no plans what so ever of doing so.

    Again the pursuit of the casual market is what people should really be blaming here, not consoles.

     

     

    Many of the recent mmo have been designed with limitation due to having to be compatible with controllers and to work with consoles.

    There is no denying they are trying to tap into the console market and it is affecting how they make mmo.

    Many? I'm not trying to give you a hard time but I can only think of two recent MMORPG's that have any sight on consoles FFXIV and ESO. That's not exactly many in my eyes.

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  • phoenix_genma_kenphoenix_genma_ken everPosts: 34Member

    guy say consoles are cancer...lol

    go play the metal gear saga

    the uncharted series

    Little big planet games

    the jak and daxter series

    the kingdom hearts series

    gran turismo series and many many many more

    thx that consoles are still here,they have the best AAA games out there

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,989Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Yes I think they  will.

    that said I think consoles are a cancer on the entire gaming industry.

    Lol, here's the thing, consoles have brought games into the living room, making it more accessible to a larger market, and provided a single, solitary platform to develop against. How that is cancerous for the gaming industry, I fail to see. 

     

    Well the issue is then developers are encouraged to design MMORPGS to a lower common denominator in terms of hardware and player base. This limits what these titles could have become in order to cater to the greatest potential profit.

    That doesn't really have anything to do with consoles.  World of Warcraft has used the same graphics for years and is only finally upgrading now.  Most people are just not interested in buying a gaming PC these days.  I'm not sure they ever were.  It's a niche market.

    The industry needs to develop more towards a niche market if it every hopes to really advance the genre.  We won't get VR based games and other improvements if they worry too much about people not being willing to spend the money for the headsets and what not.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by phoenix_genma_ken

    guy say consoles are cancer...lol

    go play the metal gear saga

    the uncharted series

    Little big planet games

    the jak and daxter series

    the kingdom hearts series

    gran turismo series and many many many more

    thx that consoles are still here,they have the best AAA games out there

    Precisely. There are many great games that would not exist if the console culture had not existed.

     

    Currently the option is: either you own just a PC, or you own a PC + consoles. 

  • chronoss2015chronoss2015 peterborough, ONPosts: 155Member Uncommon

    yes 

     

    dumbed down key use and lack a mouse use , all make for mister stupid games ( my view) 

     

    on flipside the stupi dpeople that buy them are often stupid rich and will gte lots of games and paystupid prices for crap.

    this means more games but less quality

     

    we see games launch with such shit that if they were car products you'd be seeing a recall order from a judge and lawsuits

     

    add the fact you start off when they new on level playign field gf wise and just suck money out of your console users for years and dont get card upgrades while us pc users move WELL ON....

     

    the fact is consoles suck in this respect totally 

  • severiusseverius sacramento, CAPosts: 1,514Member Common
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    I believe designing MMOs for consoles will. I had pre ordered FFXIV and enjoyed the game for several months. But one thing was clear, the game was designed for an aging console platform. Every where you went, you were always in a tunnel, you could hardly walk in any direction without running into a wall. Limitations of the PS3 was what I heard explained. EQN is going to introduce a controller friendly combat system. And I doubt it will be great. 

    I have recently taken up playing a new game of Skyrim. And while this is one of my all time favorite video games, one thing that I am painfully aware of, every minute I play is that it's a console game. The menu system is awful for someone with a keyboard. I also miss some the MMORPG flavored combat, again, to meet the action style of a controller.

    It just seems to me that Hybrid designs in this genre will sacrifice too much on both sides to work with the other. Console gamers will have too much action removed and most menu systems will end up being overly clunky And PC gamers will lose their complex combat systems and will also have to deal with the overly clunkiness of controller friendly menu systems. Etc etc.

    And while the major positive is that the genre is now open to an entirely new market, I still wonder how long this new market will stick with any one given title. So now we have games that are designed to work within the limitations of a console, but after a few short months, many of those console players have moved on to the next title.

    Those are my concerns, But what of the benefits? And what are some other concerns?

    For all intents and purposes consoles are on their last legs.  They exist because computers were too damn expensive and not really designed with multimedia at their heart.  As computers are getting smaller and less expensive the reason for a playstation, nintendo or xbox become less and less especially as those are getting more and more expensive.  Why spend 4 or 5 hundred on a console when you can spend that on a computer for equal performance and more utility?  Then in 3 years you buy a new video card, slide out the old, slide in the new and you are set for the lifecycle of that generation's consoles and into the next gen.  Kinect is probably the only thing that is actually "revolutionary" for this generation but like betamax and smellovision it isn't enough as evidenced with Microsoft's debundling of Kinect and the xbone.

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  • BadOrbBadOrb ManchesterPosts: 791Member Uncommon

    I think you title is wrong to start with , so your side of the argument , it shouldn't be future tense at all , MMO's have been on console since 1998-99. Now a good example of the limitations programmed into an MMO because it was on a console is PSU , it was limited in the fact there was no hard drive worldwide on the PS2. granted it wasn't really SEGA's fault ( how things change though ;/ ) as it was supposed to have a HD but it got ditched. SO in that sense yes consoles have already hurt the MMORPG genre years ago.

     

    Now your other argument falls flat on it's face , I have a 360 controller and play a PC MMO using 40 skills from my skill bar with ease. Consoles have always used a keyboard to communicate and use emotes ( PSO in 1999 ) so that's another mute argument.

     

    So come to 2014 all consoles have large HD's in them so there are no more excuses really. So it has been the developers fault mostly. They can easily have many skills designed to use on a controller they just chose not to.

     

    A personal opinion is , with all the BS that comes with PC's then I much preferred my console MMO days , for which I played for about 10 - 11 years. A console only MMO would be great , or make completely separate versions for console and PC.

     

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

    PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
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  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by severius
     Why spend 4 or 5 hundred on a console when you can spend that on a computer for equal performance and more utility?  

    Because every middle class home already has a computer and as long as there exists multiple great console-exclusive titles there is a reason to pay for them. 

  • deathx91deathx91 bs asPosts: 7Member Uncommon

    Played Skyrim, FFXIV and DC UO on both PC and PS3.

    I totally hated PS3 versions. I don't think consoles are a good platform to play MMORPGs.

    I played more than 200 MMORPGs and i can say that almost any of them would be good on a console (maybe some 2d games).

    If you are just concerned by the control, then just use a control with your PC.

  • deathx91deathx91 bs asPosts: 7Member Uncommon

    Played Skyrim, FFXIV and DC UO on both PC and PS3.

    I totally hated PS3 versions. I don't think consoles are a good platform to play MMORPGs.

    I played more than 200 MMORPGs and i can say that almost any of them would be good on a console (maybe some 2d games).

    If you are just concerned by the control, then just use a control with your PC.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by deathx91

    If you are just concerned by the control, then just use a control with your PC.

    You would be surprised how many PC purists refuse to use anything but mouse & keyboard on a PC out of principle. It is stubborness such as that, that prevents the PC market to completely absorb the console market. Certain great games need to have a different control scheme than mouse+keyboard to feel great.

     

     

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,661Member Uncommon

    Oh my god, this whole PC master race is just ridiculous and shows that some of your have the maturity of a 12 year old.

    Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps. Current games we see are not representative of the capabilities of this new generation.

    And can you please stop talking like there are no hardware limitations when designing for the PC. Trust me no one designs a game with the 2% super high end PCs in mind. They are tons of games coming out that run on Core 2 Duos which is technology as old as the last generation consoles. 

    You guys spent $5k on a 100 billion core CPU with a GDRR5000 GPU and 1000GB Ram? Good for you. Games are designed for low end to mid end pcs in mind. Also have you seen the way MMOs look? They look like a piece of shit! All MMO games look horrible compared to other high end graphics games which btw run perfectly fine on consoles.

    Have you seen ESO? That game looks worse than Skyrim which is a game from 2011.

     

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  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by deathx91

    If you are just concerned by the control, then just use a control with your PC.

    You would be surprised how many PC purists refuse to use anything but mouse & keyboard on a PC out of principle. It is stubborness such as that, that prevents the PC market to completely absorb the console market. Certain great games need to have a different control scheme than mouse+keyboard to feel great.

    That would mostly be fighting games and car racing games.

    Platform games work quite well with both a keyboard or a controller.

    And any first or third person 3D game (FPS shooter, MMORPG, etc...) is definitely better with a mouse than with a controller. The mouse just permits faster and more precise movement. No contest.

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  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,113Member Uncommon

    I just feel that companies are limiting what they could do with  some mmo for that sake of console crossover, seem to me last games I have played have been this way.

     

    Now IMHO this is how it should be
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  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Yes, I think they will travel back in time and hurt the MMORPG genre AGAIN!

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,289Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Oh my god, this whole PC master race is just ridiculous and shows that some of your have the maturity of a 12 year old.

    Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps. Current games we see are not representative of the capabilities of this new generation.

    And can you please stop talking like there are no hardware limitations when designing for the PC. Trust me no one designs a game with the 2% super high end PCs in mind. They are tons of games coming out that run on Core 2 Duos which is technology as old as the last generation consoles. 

    You guys spent $5k on a 100 billion core CPU with a GDRR5000 GPU and 1000GB Ram? Good for you. Games are designed for low end to mid end pcs in mind. Also have you seen the way MMOs look? They look like a piece of shit! All MMO games look horrible compared to other high end graphics games which btw run perfectly fine on consoles.

    Have you seen ESO? That game looks worse than Skyrim which is a game from 2011.

     

    Actually, no, they can't. Increasingly consoles are relegated to running at just 30fps, which is barely acceptable, even worse, they do so, particularly in the case of the Xbone, at barely more than 720p, which really can't be considered to be HD.

       The reason is fairly simple, hardware limitations, the Xbone suffers worse than the PS4 simply because it is unable to utilise gddr5 ram, which is, if you hadn't noticed, what all modern GPU's are using, for games its practically a necessity, and the fact that the CPU is only 1.6ghz is also a limiting factor, doesn't matter how many of them there are, it still means that where the GPU is limited, the CPU is unable to take up the slack. Why else do you think that PC's are able to run games in such high definition with frame rates that will forever be unattainable by the current next gen consoles, in what way can an 8 core 1.6ghz CPU possibly be compared to a 4+ core 3.0+ ghz CPU in a PC? and we're not even talking about high end gaming PC's here, but just mid range PC's that would cost well under $1000 to build. This has everything to do with why PC's often run these games at 60+ fps at full 1080 HD, and oddly enough, why the next gen consoles.. can't, and its not because they don't want to.image

  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXPosts: 949Member Uncommon

    Exactly, the worst thing for PC gaming is the consolification of our games.  The UI mechanics, the combat mechanics, None of which are any good.  The only solution is to be able to switch from a console centric game engine to a PC centric game engine.  Dev’s won't enjoy the added cost, but F’um.  Devs will have to eat the cost and get over it if they want our money.  If they don’t, they won’t get our money.

    I’ve said it for years, the dumbing down of MMOs is caused by and attempt to attract console gamers.The more the industry caters to this demographics the worse we can expect PC gaming to become.   Thou shalt not suffer a console gamer to thrive.

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  • BadOrbBadOrb ManchesterPosts: 791Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Konfess

    Exactly, the worst thing for PC gaming is the consolification of our games.  The UI mechanics, the combat mechanics, None of which are any good.  The only solution is to be able to switch from a console centric game engine to a PC centric game engine.  Dev’s won't enjoy the added cost, but F’um.  Devs will have to eat the cost and get over it if they want our money.  If they don’t, they won’t get our money.

    I’ve said it for years, the dumbing down of MMOs is caused by and attempt to attract console gamers.The more the industry caters to this demographics the worse we can expect PC gaming to become.   Thou shalt not suffer a console gamer to thrive.

    Nothing to do with attracting , we where forced to go over to the PC for our MMO's. PSO2 PC only ( unless you count the vita as a console ) and SWTOR not on a console. So me being a sci-fi MMO gamer , had to buy a PC , to fulfill my sci-fi MMO needs.Again MMO's have been on consoles since 1998.

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

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  • thecapitainethecapitaine West Chester, PAPosts: 401Member Uncommon

    There's nothing intrinsic to consoles that makes them hurtful to MMOs or to the genre itself, except of course the MMO gamer's fetishism of having twenty-eleven buttons to push to feel smarter than everyone else.  Some of the issues that plague PC-based MMOs (for example, just glance at any "Technical Problems" forum for any game) may find answers in the world of consoles.  The resistance to rampant RMT that console players seem to have could help curb publisher's bad practices.  An influx of new blood could spark publishers to double down on making solid MMOs rather than the next great shooter.  Who knows?

     

    Bottom line, the platform is far from a deciding factor-- it's the design principles and aims of developers and their partners that will help or hinder the genre.  As it's always been.

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