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Is EQ just nostalgia, or was it really that good?

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  • NilenyaNilenya TMIPosts: 364Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mackaveli44
    Originally posted by rockin_ufo

    NOTE: This is not a hardcore versus casual thread. 

     

    When people bring up new ways MMOs should grasp an audience, especially recently with EQNext, a lot of people will jump up and down with their hand raised and when asked to give an answer..bring back the feel of Everquest. The first 3D MMO ever made..yet never been expanded on it's original formula outside of maybe Vanguard. So that brings me to my question..was EQ just nostalgia or was it really that good of an MMO? Possibly a combination? Are the mechanics/gamestyle just too outdated for modern gamers? I'm curious! 

    My personal opinion, [mod edit] I've realized while some things are indeed dated: I've seeing stuff that I don't ever see in any MMO, even 15 years later. Some modernization on small things are needed (command prompts for everything, really?), but all in all the game is still a solid experience even in it's skeleton. I don't see myself dropping it down anytime soon. 

    So yeah, discuss!

    EQ IS the king of all MMO's even more so then UO.  3D MMO's that is. Its the game that started it all.  The entire aspect of the game still beats many MMO's, if not all MMO''s currently out.  

    No instancing

    Massive open zones

    None of this BS "bind" gear

    GROUP oriented and it was difficult.

    You actually grew as a server, you knew a lot of players by their names vs nowadays you probably cant remember the last name of a person you grouped with because of the cross-server BS.

    Actual player trading and communication.

    You actually feel like you accomplished something or had that sense of satisfaction/accomplishment when you got a new item unlike today gear is just thrown to you with ease so you dont get that feeling anymore.

    I could go on and on and on.  To this very day, it still beats a ton, if not all MMOs out in a lot of things.  If you werent there when it was in its prime you surely missed out on the greatest MMO ever created.

    The gameplay feature I miss the most, well not the most but one that sticks out in my mind is that in EQ, you could attack pretty much anything, basically how Skyrim is.  You could go into a city and attack guards, class trainers, the head honchos of the city, and they actually dropped stuff.  They were challening as well.  It gave it a true open epic feeling to it.  Now games your basically restricted to only attacking monsters in the world.  Very linear gameplay now :(  Man I miss EQ... I truly do.

    I remember levelling on Luclin on some guards way off the beaten path. I cant remember the name of the zone now, except it had lots of water and little islands. I was 53/54 at the time, and killing guards. As a wizard I could bind myself wherever I wished. Being a stupid wizard I was bound next to a vendor for easy bag clearing between killing sessions. The vendor was next to the entrance to a town, with guards posted by the gate :) - After killing for some hours and gating back to sell, I had around 10 corpses and delevelled once before I made a successful getaway and a got a friend cleric to drag every corpse to a safe spot. OMG Ill never forget that. 

    Silly for me to be so distracted at the time, especially for a dark elf who had gotten amicable with felwithe by killing orcs. I loved grinding factions, but hadnt even once considered what my choice of kills was going to do for me :D - In Everquest actions had consequences, and corpses were pretty important to recover :) I want all that back. I was great even when it was scaring me at the time LOL.

  • MaquiameMaquiame Posts: 794Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nilenya
    Originally posted by Mackaveli44
    Originally posted by rockin_ufo

    NOTE: This is not a hardcore versus casual thread. 

     

    When people bring up new ways MMOs should grasp an audience, especially recently with EQNext, a lot of people will jump up and down with their hand raised and when asked to give an answer..bring back the feel of Everquest. The first 3D MMO ever made..yet never been expanded on it's original formula outside of maybe Vanguard. So that brings me to my question..was EQ just nostalgia or was it really that good of an MMO? Possibly a combination? Are the mechanics/gamestyle just too outdated for modern gamers? I'm curious! 

    My personal opinion, [mod edit] I've realized while some things are indeed dated: I've seeing stuff that I don't ever see in any MMO, even 15 years later. Some modernization on small things are needed (command prompts for everything, really?), but all in all the game is still a solid experience even in it's skeleton. I don't see myself dropping it down anytime soon. 

    So yeah, discuss!

    EQ IS the king of all MMO's even more so then UO.  3D MMO's that is. Its the game that started it all.  The entire aspect of the game still beats many MMO's, if not all MMO''s currently out.  

    No instancing

    Massive open zones

    None of this BS "bind" gear

    GROUP oriented and it was difficult.

    You actually grew as a server, you knew a lot of players by their names vs nowadays you probably cant remember the last name of a person you grouped with because of the cross-server BS.

    Actual player trading and communication.

    You actually feel like you accomplished something or had that sense of satisfaction/accomplishment when you got a new item unlike today gear is just thrown to you with ease so you dont get that feeling anymore.

    I could go on and on and on.  To this very day, it still beats a ton, if not all MMOs out in a lot of things.  If you werent there when it was in its prime you surely missed out on the greatest MMO ever created.

    The gameplay feature I miss the most, well not the most but one that sticks out in my mind is that in EQ, you could attack pretty much anything, basically how Skyrim is.  You could go into a city and attack guards, class trainers, the head honchos of the city, and they actually dropped stuff.  They were challening as well.  It gave it a true open epic feeling to it.  Now games your basically restricted to only attacking monsters in the world.  Very linear gameplay now :(  Man I miss EQ... I truly do.

    I remember levelling on Luclin on some guards way off the beaten path. I cant remember the name of the zone now, except it had lots of water and little islands. I was 53/54 at the time, and killing guards. As a wizard I could bind myself wherever I wished. Being a stupid wizard I was bound next to a vendor for easy bag clearing between killing sessions. The vendor was next to the entrance to a town, with guards posted by the gate :) - After killing for some hours and gating back to sell, I had around 10 corpses and delevelled once before I made a successful getaway and a got a friend cleric to drag every corpse to a safe spot. OMG Ill never forget that. 

    Silly for me to be so distracted at the time, especially for a dark elf who had gotten amicable with felwithe by killing orcs. I loved grinding factions, but hadnt even once considered what my choice of kills was going to do for me :D - In Everquest actions had consequences, and corpses were pretty important to recover :) I want all that back. I was great even when it was scaring me at the time LOL.

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  • cmorris975cmorris975 San Jose, CAPosts: 186Member
    Originally posted by AIMonster
    Originally posted by Dahkoht

    [mod edit]

    I left EQ once I believe the GoD expansion came out. There is no original EQ for me , I didn't quit it nor DAOC because I got tired of the original versions. I left because either expansions or major rule changes changed the game I originally loved.

    It may be nostalgia for some , but don't paint everyone with that , as there is no choice for those of us who do want the original style EQ and DAOC and so on.

    Many of us didn't leave because we got tired of the game , it was because they changed the game to no longer be close to what it was.

    Todays EQ cant even be considered remotely like the original EQ.

     

    [mod edit]

    And sure, for some people it's more than nostalgia, but I think for a lot of people (particularly the people who expect EQ:Next to basically be a reskinned EQ or complain that modern MMOs aren't more like EQ) it is in fact nostalgia.  They could go back and play the game they loved so much, but I think for a lot of people if they did they would realize the many improvements and innovations of modern MMOs that make them more fun.

    I recently went back to EQ after 5-6 years of trying to find another decent MMO.  I must have played 30 different MMOs.  GUild Wars 2 bored me to tears (I did like the first one though).  Eve was decent but not really my thing, and I liked Darkfall as well but the game has too many problems and glacial development speed.  EQ still does it for me after all these years.  I used to not be able to do this, but for some reason even the dated graphics don't bother me anymore.  EQ has the complexity and challenge and group mechanics done very well.  It is amazing to me that a 15 year old game is still the most fun MMORPG for me, but it is.

     

  • GaeluianGaeluian Dousman, WIPosts: 83Member Uncommon
    One important and very missed aspect of differences between EQ1 and other MMO's; it takes a long time to kill 1 mob in eq1. In most, if not all, modern MMO's , you kill mobs in a hit or 2. In EQ1, it can take anywhere from 5 min to 20 min.
  • cheyanecheyane Rome Posts: 3,002Member Uncommon

    I would love to go back to Everquest but who would I play with. Everyone I knew from that game has left this genre more or less.

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  • PuffyWigglesPuffyWiggles Shreveport, LAPosts: 2Member

       It wasn't Nostalgia and I can prove it. First id like to say that it may of been nostalgia for some and some nostalgia does take place, but thats not why the game was good nor why it was liked by its players.

      For it to be Nostalgia it would mean that its mechanics wouldn't hold up to todays games. That is blatantly false. Eve is a game built on a lot of the open world freedom and punishment that made Everquest great. Go tell those people they are only enjoying that game because they mistakenly think its a good game. 

      Lets move onto DayZ. A game praised for its hardcore mechanics. It has a focus on first person, immersion, eating and drinking to survive, losing all gear and all progress from dying, a need to group up if you want to survive, legit day and night cycles, you can get sick and die. All of the things that most of the pro "nostalgia" nay sayers say simply aren't good ideas, just old relics we thought were good. You are wrong and there is a million + buyers of DayZ to prove it, those mechanics are fun for a lot of people.

      Lets now move onto Dark Souls. Again, a game that focuses on throwing you out in the world completely and utterly helpless with no direction. A game that will punish you, harshly, for dying. Things that people who played Everquest enjoyed. If it was just "nostalgia" why are we still enjoying these things? Seems that the pro nostalgia arguments aren't adding up.

      Some people say that Everquest was clunky and didn't feel great. There is simply no going back, and while I do think improvements can always be made, you would be completely missing why people loved the game if you were focusing on the combat. Go play DayZ and tell me its as smooth as CoD, its not. Go play Dark Souls and tell me it has the same fluidity as something like Devil May Cry, it doesn't. Of course to be comparing that is so completely missing what made the game what it was its no wonder you think its nostalgia, the beauty of the game flew right over your head, much like im sure todays games of the sort do.

      Just because you don't like something or you have become more casual in your gameplay doesn't mean that people didn't have legitimate reasons for liking a game. Just because you can't wrap your mind around it doesn't mean it wasn't good. It just simply isn't for you and going on a crusade trying to convince people it was all in their heads is foolish, ignorant and a little insulting.

      Imagine if WoW decided, tomorrow, that they had lost too many subs and decided the game was going to return to what made BC so great and lets say they gained 2 million more subs. How long would it take for all the "hardcore" gamers to tell you that your love  for WoTLK - Pandaria was all in your head? 3 years? 4? Maybe 5? Imagine they said something like,  "Theres simply no way you could like that watered down, casual, kindergarden gameplay, the games evolved to become more complex and its better because of it!!" How insulting would that be to you? Think about it.

       We loved EQ because it was as close to a real live Tolkien world as any game had ever gotten at that time, unfortunately, its as close as any game has ever gotten. DayZ is the closest to actually surviving in a zombie apocalypse as any game has ever gotten and thats why people love it. It wasnt' nostalgia, it was immersion, heart, soul, mechanics, progression, passion, community, scale, difficulty, pain and a harsh world that made surviving feel all the more rewarding. Its also the only MMO where my spells actually leveled up with me, level 1 ignite on a druid turned into Starfire at max level and you could just look at the graphic and know I was a high level Druid. Games dont even bother with stuff like that anymore, no heart.

  • VelifaxVelifax Ogden, UTPosts: 125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PuffyWiggles

       It wasn't Nostalgia and I can prove it. First id like to say that it may of been nostalgia for some and some nostalgia does take place, but thats not why the game was good nor why it was liked by its players.

      For it to be Nostalgia it would mean that its mechanics wouldn't hold up to todays games. That is blatantly false. Eve is a game built on a lot of the open world freedom and punishment that made Everquest great. Go tell those people they are only enjoying that game because they mistakenly think its a good game. 

      Lets move onto DayZ. A game praised for its hardcore mechanics. It has a focus on first person, immersion, eating and drinking to survive, losing all gear and all progress from dying, a need to group up if you want to survive, legit day and night cycles, you can get sick and die. All of the things that most of the pro "nostalgia" nay sayers say simply aren't good ideas, just old relics we thought were good. You are wrong and there is a million + buyers of DayZ to prove it, those mechanics are fun for a lot of people.

      Lets now move onto Dark Souls. Again, a game that focuses on throwing you out in the world completely and utterly helpless with no direction. A game that will punish you, harshly, for dying. Things that people who played Everquest enjoyed. If it was just "nostalgia" why are we still enjoying these things? Seems that the pro nostalgia arguments aren't adding up.

      Some people say that Everquest was clunky and didn't feel great. There is simply no going back, and while I do think improvements can always be made, you would be completely missing why people loved the game if you were focusing on the combat. Go play DayZ and tell me its as smooth as CoD, its not. Go play Dark Souls and tell me it has the same fluidity as something like Devil May Cry, it doesn't. Of course to be comparing that is so completely missing what made the game what it was its no wonder you think its nostalgia, the beauty of the game flew right over your head, much like im sure todays games of the sort do.

      Just because you don't like something or you have become more casual in your gameplay doesn't mean that people didn't have legitimate reasons for liking a game. Just because you can't wrap your mind around it doesn't mean it wasn't good. It just simply isn't for you and going on a crusade trying to convince people it was all in their heads is foolish, ignorant and a little insulting.

      Imagine if WoW decided, tomorrow, that they had lost too many subs and decided the game was going to return to what made BC so great and lets say they gained 2 million more subs. How long would it take for all the "hardcore" gamers to tell you that your love  for WoTLK - Pandaria was all in your head? 3 years? 4? Maybe 5? Imagine they said something like,  "Theres simply no way you could like that watered down, casual, kindergarden gameplay, the games evolved to become more complex and its better because of it!!" How insulting would that be to you? Think about it.

       We loved EQ because it was as close to a real live Tolkien world as any game had ever gotten at that time, unfortunately, its as close as any game has ever gotten. DayZ is the closest to actually surviving in a zombie apocalypse as any game has ever gotten and thats why people love it. It wasnt' nostalgia, it was immersion, heart, soul, mechanics, progression, passion, community, scale, difficulty, pain and a harsh world that made surviving feel all the more rewarding. Its also the only MMO where my spells actually leveled up with me, level 1 ignite on a druid turned into Starfire at max level and you could just look at the graphic and know I was a high level Druid. Games dont even bother with stuff like that anymore, no heart.

    This is too much awesome for the internet. 

  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Behind you, ORPosts: 1,522Member Uncommon

    I don't care which version ppl are talking about.....

     

    IT WAS REALLY THAT GOOD!!

     

    Wish more were like it

    image
    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,579Member Uncommon
    It sucked.  AC was so much better than EQ.
  • RattenmannRattenmann ReitmehringPosts: 510Member Uncommon

    EQ was great for the fact that you needed other people. You know... the multiplayer part. It also rocked for the fact that getting items could take months, so it actually made others go "wow, look at that bard!" if they saw you in your shiny gear.

     

    Convenience "features" in modern MMOs eliminate these points, so current MMOs suck.

     

    Edit: Hell YES it was and IS that good.

    MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

    Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Behind you, ORPosts: 1,522Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Horusra
    It sucked.  AC was so much better than EQ.

    Wow...not biased at all

     

    So....no....

     

    AC RULED to those that loved the sub par. Sub par everything. But hey...you had a following of people that couldn't afford better or just "fell in love".

    image
    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Brooklyn, NYPosts: 1,164Member Uncommon

    I play a shitload of MMOs and I started EQ back in 2012.  Out of all the MMOs (including recent ones) NO MMO has come close to what EQ offered.  If you can get over the antiquated graphics and control scheme you are in for a great, challenging, exploratory experience.  Some of the things you can do in EQ you STILL cant do in today's MMOs.  The grouping. The role play. Housing. The Gear. The progression.  It truly is a virtual world.

    So I can't speak to Nostalgia but I can tell you as a recent gamer this game still rocks.

    JokerChyld - Vox Server - Knights of Vox

    image
  • DoomsDay01DoomsDay01 Charlotte, NCPosts: 780Member Common

    I have said it many times before. EQ has been the only mmo that really made you afraid. Fear was a huge part in that game. Fear of death. exp loss, corpse loss, item loss. Folks today get things handed to them on a platter and they dont really appreciate it. Sure it makes life easier, you dont have to spend an entire day trying to work your way into a dungeon and then spending the next day trying to recover your corpse. If a fight with a mob lasts more than 10 seconds people start bitching the game is to slow. Seriously? what is up with that?

    Community was also a huge part of EQ. You got a bad reputation, you simply couldnt get in groups. As Wil Wheaton likes to say, Dont be a dick! This was very important for grouping in EQ. How many here remember the good ol fire giants hollering YOU WONT EVADE ME SOANDSO!!! The cheers from others in the zone telling you to kick its ass! How many folks remember being in a huge fight and having folks standing around watching the fight and see spawns pop up that could wipe your group and the bystanders jump in and grab the adds so that you can win? Nowadays people stand and watch you fight waiting and hoping for you to die so they can jump in and steal the kill, that is if you are in a game that actually isnt instanced.

    Without these 2 main elements, Fear and community, the mmos of today will and continue to fall short!

  • BraindomeBraindome Posts: 769Member Uncommon
    The music and atmosphere of EQ is second to none.
  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Nice necro

    You make me like charity

  • Tiqabar45Tiqabar45 Carmel, INPosts: 17Member Uncommon
    While I enjoyed Everquest quite a bit, I do feel the need to point out Meridian 59 was the first 3d MMO on the market. You can argue it wasn't truly 3d like Everquest but it did hit the market I believe 3 years before Everquest and should be credited as the first truly graphical massive multiplayer online game or multi-user dungeon as many would point out and possibly throw The Realm in there from Sierra Online and Ultima Online as predecessors.  Those three games should be credited with launching the MMO world.  It was a very immersive and challenging game that required teamwork and actual knowledge of the world to really succeed since it was well before step by step quest trackers, world maps, and instant travel.  Both Meridian 59 and Everquest bring about a true feeling of nostalgia.  You can list all the complaints in the world, but cannot dispute the fact that Everquest and Meridian 59 before it launched us into the MMOs of today.
  • FoeHammerJTFoeHammerJT Broken Arrow, OKPosts: 148Member

    From reviewing this lovely thread of times remembered I see a couple of very common themes that I whole heartedly endorse. If someone parsed this I think two ideas I've been pushing around various forums and communities would be common to many of these posts:

    - Smaller Communities.

    - A dangerous world that encouraged/almost forced grouping.

     

    Both of these are missing from modern MMOs that currently strive and focus on MASSIVE and ACCESSIBLE.

    However much I and many other espouse how much these simple concepts can change a game, current developers are largely ignoring them. I see some glimmers of hope: Wildstar's focus on challenging raid content & even the more challenging world that ESO presented are both improvements on the more face-roll friendly games that have plagued the genre lately.

    I want a world where you get to know those around you, not just guild mates. Give me a smaller community, with a world that feels larger and more dangerous. Build a challenging environment with lots to do and lots to create by the players and turn us loose.

    The argument from solo players doesn't hold up, there are plenty of games that are solo friendly in the MMO space PLUS the single player games out there and ARPGs etc.

    I'd be willing to pay more for a niche friendly game that wouldn't have huge sub numbers. People will spend money on a game they want: See RSI/Space Citizen if you have any doubts.

    Here's to hoping!

     

     

  • VoqarVoqar Phoenix, AZPosts: 498Member

    It was really that good - at the time - and there's some nostalgia.  It's a mix.

     

    EQ was amazing at release since it was pretty much a new toy - Ultima online (didn't play it) wasn't 3D 1st/3rd person and obviously it was a bit more visual than text MUD style games.  So there was a lot of impact.  For me, coming from pnp D&D, it felt like heaven - it was like being able to play D&D nonstop.  D&D was all about me and a GROUP of friends doing PVE stuff - EQ was all about grouping and PvE stuff (EQ had PvP servers but it was like, here, have a server, no balance, ,no attempt at balance, nobody cares, kill each other, play at your own risk, crying gets you nowhere).

     

    The keys were you grouped - all the time.  There was challenge - all the time.  No hand outs.  No hand holding.  There was danger all the time.  Leveling took time and required effort.  Death was punishing.

     

    Community was strong because you had to group for everything - so you met and dealt with more people every day.  You had to behave and be decent at playing so people wanted you in groups.  When you endure the hardships, overcome the challenges, and do it with other people you make memories and forge communities.  It's something you absolutely will NEVER have in the modern MMORPGs full of soloists doing mundane ez mode on the same server.

     

    There are some memories from my EQ days I'll never forget.  Like all of the open dungeon zones ("train to zone!") like Crushbone, Unrest, Befallen, etc.  Gameplay is so different now and there's never anything remotely like those zones anymore.  The "open world" dungeons in new MMORPGs aren't remotely close to the same vibe.

     

    Some of the love of EQ is nostalgia.  I don't think I'd want to endure camp and grind style leveling again, for ex.  The plus with it is that you sometimes have brief downtimes while playing and you actually interact with the people you group with - instead of what you have in newer MMORPGs where you queue into and instance and spend an hour with strangers you don't even say "hi" or "bye" to.  But just parking for hours at a time and pulling mobs to mow down isn't exactly all that compelling - but yet - is doing 500-1000 ultra easy quests for idiots with quest trackers that do everything for you any more compelling?  For me it sure is not.

     

    Some of it is the nostalgia of EQ being your first MMORPG - and the "oh wow" moments of experiencing some things for the first time.  Other MMORPGs of that time didn't really "wow" me - until WoW itself, which was such a huge step up for the genre in so many ways - while also being the ruination of the genre in transforming it away from being niche and group-oriented into going for wider/casual appeal and heavy solo.  For all the respect and love I had/have for WoW (6.5yrs of playing) I also truly hate it for ruining my favorite gaming genre.

     

    MMORPGs went from being a niche genre of challenge, grouping, danger, and being the best genre of all to being a crapfest of solo heavy games that barely resemble MMORPGs at end game and worse, lots of F2P trash not even worth playing.  And it's pretty much Blizzard's fault.

     

    What I'd LIKE to see, since I feel like the WoW clone vomit formula of fail for MMORPGs has been done and flogged to utter death, is for SOME dev of quality to do an MMORPG more rooted in the classic style.  Forget about casuals, solists, BG PVPers, and wider appeal, and go back to niche.  Make a modern MMORPG that's group PVE heavy, full of challenge, and danger, and consequences for failing - like the EQ and similar games of old - but with the modern graphics and trappings and maybe with some modernized takes on conent to take it beyond simple camp and grind - yet without going full retard with the 1000's of generic and repetitive idiot-mode quests grinds that's ultimately no better.  There are some bright people out there in gaming design.  SURELY someone can come up with a group/challenge/danger filled MMORPG that extends leveling beyond ADD time frames.

     

    I think what is most upsetting to me is that the crappy trends in MMORPGs just get worse and worse.  Games like WildStar ship with built-in RMT - something that has always been bannable cheating - is now not only accepted by devs but facilitated by devs and players just don't care anymore.  F2P is pure rubbish for MMORPGs.  It's a model for more profit, and for lower quality games - and the fact that some players are confused on this and support F2P just shows how far the genre has fallen for player quality (and intelligence).

     

    Saddest of all, EverQuest is THE granddaddy of the genre.  When most people talk origins of MMORPGs, it's EQ they're thinking of.  And soon SOE is going to come out with a new EverQuest named game that's F2P, solo heavy, action-arcade style, part minecraft, and almost no part MMORPG.   And they're going to call it an MMORPG, and it's going to have EverQuest in the name even though it's nothing like EverQuestt, and is kind of the culmination of everything that sucks about modern MMORPG craptastic design.

    Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    Most of the design is honestly great. That's why most MMOs still use the blueprints (but miss all the details that made it actually work)

     

    A lot IS nostalgia though, as it was the first big 3d simulated D&D world. There are design aspects that were a bit too harsh, like how long you needed to rest, how long respawn was, how slow xp was, and how harsh the death penalty was.

     

    But those are all dials that can be tweaked. The core of the game, was great. The only real flaw in design was the item centric nature, which caused everyone to go to the same dungeons for the same items and end up waiting in a virtual line. This same exact flaw got copied into WoW, more or less, with an endless raising of level cap and more loot replacing more loot.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon

    The strong point of EQ was that it was new and felt frsh... the first AAA+ 3D graphics MMO...

     

    Compared to the current MMO´s it felt much more like a virtuall world and much less like a themepark...  You went out to discover and make friends.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Voqar

    It was really that good - at the time - and there's some nostalgia.  It's a mix.

     

    EQ was amazing at release since it was pretty much a new toy - Ultima online (didn't play it) wasn't 3D 1st/3rd person and obviously it was a bit more visual than text MUD style games.  So there was a lot of impact.  For me, coming from pnp D&D, it felt like heaven - it was like being able to play D&D nonstop.  D&D was all about me and a GROUP of friends doing PVE stuff - EQ was all about grouping and PvE stuff (EQ had PvP servers but it was like, here, have a server, no balance, ,no attempt at balance, nobody cares, kill each other, play at your own risk, crying gets you nowhere).

     

    The keys were you grouped - all the time.  There was challenge - all the time.  No hand outs.  No hand holding.  There was danger all the time.  Leveling took time and required effort.  Death was punishing.

     

    Community was strong because you had to group for everything - so you met and dealt with more people every day.  You had to behave and be decent at playing so people wanted you in groups.  When you endure the hardships, overcome the challenges, and do it with other people you make memories and forge communities.  It's something you absolutely will NEVER have in the modern MMORPGs full of soloists doing mundane ez mode on the same server.

     

    There are some memories from my EQ days I'll never forget.  Like all of the open dungeon zones ("train to zone!") like Crushbone, Unrest, Befallen, etc.  Gameplay is so different now and there's never anything remotely like those zones anymore.  The "open world" dungeons in new MMORPGs aren't remotely close to the same vibe.

     

    Some of the love of EQ is nostalgia.  I don't think I'd want to endure camp and grind style leveling again, for ex.  The plus with it is that you sometimes have brief downtimes while playing and you actually interact with the people you group with - instead of what you have in newer MMORPGs where you queue into and instance and spend an hour with strangers you don't even say "hi" or "bye" to.  But just parking for hours at a time and pulling mobs to mow down isn't exactly all that compelling - but yet - is doing 500-1000 ultra easy quests for idiots with quest trackers that do everything for you any more compelling?  For me it sure is not.

     

    Some of it is the nostalgia of EQ being your first MMORPG - and the "oh wow" moments of experiencing some things for the first time.  Other MMORPGs of that time didn't really "wow" me - until WoW itself, which was such a huge step up for the genre in so many ways - while also being the ruination of the genre in transforming it away from being niche and group-oriented into going for wider/casual appeal and heavy solo.  For all the respect and love I had/have for WoW (6.5yrs of playing) I also truly hate it for ruining my favorite gaming genre.

     

    MMORPGs went from being a niche genre of challenge, grouping, danger, and being the best genre of all to being a crapfest of solo heavy games that barely resemble MMORPGs at end game and worse, lots of F2P trash not even worth playing.  And it's pretty much Blizzard's fault.

     

    What I'd LIKE to see, since I feel like the WoW clone vomit formula of fail for MMORPGs has been done and flogged to utter death, is for SOME dev of quality to do an MMORPG more rooted in the classic style.  Forget about casuals, solists, BG PVPers, and wider appeal, and go back to niche.  Make a modern MMORPG that's group PVE heavy, full of challenge, and danger, and consequences for failing - like the EQ and similar games of old - but with the modern graphics and trappings and maybe with some modernized takes on conent to take it beyond simple camp and grind - yet without going full retard with the 1000's of generic and repetitive idiot-mode quests grinds that's ultimately no better.  There are some bright people out there in gaming design.  SURELY someone can come up with a group/challenge/danger filled MMORPG that extends leveling beyond ADD time frames.

     

    I think what is most upsetting to me is that the crappy trends in MMORPGs just get worse and worse.  Games like WildStar ship with built-in RMT - something that has always been bannable cheating - is now not only accepted by devs but facilitated by devs and players just don't care anymore.  F2P is pure rubbish for MMORPGs.  It's a model for more profit, and for lower quality games - and the fact that some players are confused on this and support F2P just shows how far the genre has fallen for player quality (and intelligence).

     

    Saddest of all, EverQuest is THE granddaddy of the genre.  When most people talk origins of MMORPGs, it's EQ they're thinking of.  And soon SOE is going to come out with a new EverQuest named game that's F2P, solo heavy, action-arcade style, part minecraft, and almost no part MMORPG.   And they're going to call it an MMORPG, and it's going to have EverQuest in the name even though it's nothing like EverQuestt, and is kind of the culmination of everything that sucks about modern MMORPG craptastic design.

    Pretty much this. Only it wasn't Blizzards fault everyone and their dog tried to copy them. Also EQNext voxels look like a cool innovation.

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    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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  • LerxstLerxst Phx, AZPosts: 550Member

    You know, I never played EQ. I played UO, but back then, if you really wanted a crisp, 3d experience, FPSes were the way to go - Quake II, Rainbow Six, etc.. I recall seeing the blockiness of the EQ graphics and thinking I'd prefer a game like UO... after all, that's what RPGs were back then! I wasn't until technology improves a bit that I really got into the 3d First-Person MMOs like DAoC and AC.

     

    On point - I think the EQ feel most people ring up is the sense of never having done something before. It was new, different and also difficult. Then WoW came along and homogenized the entire market. Today there are MMOs coming out a dime a dozen each year, many of them "indie" games. Problem is, companies now take it seriously and view it as a business, not just a hobby, so the indie developers are always going to be overshadowed by the AAA titles.

     

    It's like the history of Rock & Roll. Back in the 60's it was rare to meet someone who onwed a drum set, bass or guitar and played Rock music. Those few that did grouped up and formed bands. Those bands became famous simply due to the lack of any commercial competition. 20 years later, record companies moved in and these people's hobbies became multi-million dollar businesses. Today, almost everyone seems to play an instrument and has formed a garage band at some point that went nowhere.

     

    So... were The Beetles really that good, or do people like them for the nostalgia factor? from a musician standpoint, their music was simple and almost elementary. They happened to be in the right place at the right time and the rest is history.

     

    I view EQ and games like it to be like the Beetles; they happened in the right place at the right time in history/technology. It doesn't make them good, it just makes them successful.

  • SweedeSweede NorsborgPosts: 185Member
    I smile when i run trough Nektulos today and i see the newbie log, even marked on the map :) so many memories of that log :)

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  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by rockin_ufo
    One of the things I think adds to the complication of a "redo" of Everquest is that the game was obviously designed around a lower population then what we are used to now. I think it was 150k subs? That's chump change for even the lowest MMOs now.
    I could very well be mis-remembering; was along time ago. But it's in my head that EQ when it was the elephant in the room; before the wow bomb dropped; peeked around 800kish sustained. If I'm wrong someone correct me, as I said I could very well be mistaken. I do know it didn't get superseded by wow till 6-18months after wows launch.

    EDIT sorry didn't notice the necro...oops

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  • ZigZagsIIIZigZagsIII Lake Como, NEPosts: 18Member

    I truly believe it really was that good. To this day no other game can come close to offering the challenge or risk of doing PVE alone, let alone pvp. 

     

    Most modern MMOs give trophioes just for participation. Welfare loot. They make even the bad players feel like they are doing well which is horrible. Come to think of it, society in general is doing the same thing.

This discussion has been closed.