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Still no official sales numbers?

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  • MalaboogaMalabooga aadadaPosts: 1,541Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    Other than WoW, what company releases subscriber numbers?  The last I know of is either SWtOR, or EVE.  The former got bit in the ass after advertising 2 million subs only to have 1.5 of them drop after a few months.  The later stopped giving numbers out entirely a while back ago (probably because they were in decline).

    So what exactly is the problem with ESO not advertising numbers?

    Because if they were good it would be all over the place. Its a standard procedure.

  • MalaboogaMalabooga aadadaPosts: 1,541Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by amber-r

    I don't know how many they sold, we can guess about 500k max.

     

    However they obviously have no intention of going f2p anytime soon, they delayed the console version for 6 months so they won't go f2p for at least a year.  That alone shows they are decently happy with the game so far and money isn't an issue.

    Yes, B2P seems much more likely. somewhat like TSW. Paid DLCs. and such.

  • amber-ramber-r londonPosts: 323Member

    Also you should keep in mind that numbers aren't always a good thing, look at FFXIV for instance.  Square offer up silly, meaningless numbers of "players".

     

    If ESO followed FFXIV tactics and gave out registered player numbers they would be many millions (yes beta players are also calculated in the registered player number).

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    Other than WoW, what company releases subscriber numbers?  The last I know of is either SWtOR, or EVE.  The former got bit in the ass after advertising 2 million subs only to have 1.5 of them drop after a few months.  The later stopped giving numbers out entirely a while back ago (probably because they were in decline).

    So what exactly is the problem with ESO not advertising numbers?

    Copies sold after a month?

    Let's see: AoC, WAR, GW2, TOR.. Anyone selling a lot of copies do it since it is good advertisement. 

    Actual sub numbers is a different matter, frankly do most games just announce accounts created (F2P) or copies sold (P2P, B2P).

    I kinda doubt that ESOs copies sold really bad since the IP is popular and some of my friends play or have played but I also doubt they have been selling as much as they hope.

    Something between 800K and 1.5M is my guess since we havn't heard anything but that is of course just a guess, could be more or less. But if it had sold better than all earlier MMOs we would have heard about it.

    It is not exactly a problem that they havn't advertise any number but it is not a good sign either.

    Then again, it is very possible that ESO will be a huge success on console.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    Other than WoW, what company releases subscriber numbers?  The last I know of is either SWtOR, or EVE.  The former got bit in the ass after advertising 2 million subs only to have 1.5 of them drop after a few months.  The later stopped giving numbers out entirely a while back ago (probably because they were in decline).

    So what exactly is the problem with ESO not advertising numbers?

    Because if they were good it would be all over the place. Its a standard procedure.

    And that line of reasoning made complete sense right up until Bioware got screwed over by trumpeting great numbers too quickly.  Post-SWtOR, there's very little to benefit from trumpeting sub numbers unless they are approaching WoW.

    You make me like charity

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    Other than WoW, what company releases subscriber numbers?  The last I know of is either SWtOR, or EVE.  The former got bit in the ass after advertising 2 million subs only to have 1.5 of them drop after a few months.  The later stopped giving numbers out entirely a while back ago (probably because they were in decline).

    So what exactly is the problem with ESO not advertising numbers?

    Copies sold after a month?

    Let's see: AoC, WAR, GW2, TOR.. Anyone selling a lot of copies do it since it is good advertisement. 

    Actual sub numbers is a different matter, frankly do most games just announce accounts created (F2P) or copies sold (P2P, B2P).

    I kinda doubt that ESOs copies sold really bad since the IP is popular and some of my friends play or have played but I also doubt they have been selling as much as they hope.

    Something between 800K and 1.5M is my guess since we havn't heard anything but that is of course just a guess, could be more or less. But if it had sold better than all earlier MMOs we would have heard about it.

    It is not exactly a problem that they havn't advertise any number but it is not a good sign either.

    Then again, it is very possible that ESO will be a huge success on console.

    It can be good advertisement to put out the copies sold.  Or, as every game in that list of yours can attest to, it can backfire when the numbers don't stay very high after the first few months.  The MMO market is so toxic right now, with players basically looking for reasons to hate every game that comes out, that releasing any information is a double-edged sword.

    You make me like charity

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by asmkm22

      The MMO market is so toxic right now, with players basically looking for reasons to hate every game that comes out, that releasing any information is a double-edged sword.

    the negativity is probably only limited to gaming messageboards but i agree

  • LydarSynnLydarSynn Jonestown, ALPosts: 182Member
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by nilden
    I'm very interested in seeing box sales, subscriptions, or any official sales numbers. I've been keeping an eye out and guess it would be all over this site if it was released like the 5 million registered for beta but not seeing anything yet. It's been over a month since release, what gives? Do you think they will ever release sales figures or did they do so bad that they never will?

    Based on what I am personally seeing and hearing- I imagine they sold a ton of boxes. Perhaps close to recouping most of the dev cost. A very large portion of my friends purchased this game and a very small portion are still subbed at the current moment.

    I think you will hear alot more on this (Sales numbers) close to the console release- Its going to be HUGE. It will probably be a staple on nearly everyones Xbawx and PS4. Thats when the bragging will more likely start- To crate more hype . Then (if not shortly before) I would reckon it goes F2P. Then you will get more numbers.

     

    10 Billion served?

     

    The whole thing reeked of this setup. They spent a lot of money to develop the game and ended up with a mediocre MMO. They needed to get their money back on the box sales but they knew that this game would never hold a sub base. The plan was to bilk the early adopters and then later try to entice others to fill the void with FTP.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,262Member Uncommon

    Well, Raptr shows ESO having about 100k more active user than Gw2.

    ESO- 268,435

    Gw2- 179,967

     

    and about 20k less total members. 

    gw2 - 419,416

    ESO - 268,435

     

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/eso-subscription-numbers/page/7/#post-491291

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    no one knows but ZOS. all of this is speculation and a whole lot of bloviation.

    i learned a new word reading that link image

  • GravehillGravehill pickering, ONPosts: 95Member
    Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
    Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit
    Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
    Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit
    "10 millions of subscribed players."

    Oh, crap... has Knotwood returned with a new account name?

    ;-)

     

    Do you even Math ?

    How about 780 out of 800 on my math GRE's years ago... one of multiple degrees I hold.

    I've also been at every level of managment in very large companies, so I know "just a bit" about business.  Bad products do not end up with a large subscription base.

    So, kid aka Knotwood the second, do you do anything other than hype?

     

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Well, Raptr shows ESO having about 100k more active user than Gw2.

    ESO- 268,435

    Gw2- 179,967

     

    and about 20k less total members. 

    gw2 - 419,416

    ESO - 268,435

     

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/eso-subscription-numbers/page/7/#post-491291

    Interesting tidbit that.  If you go to http://raptr.com/dashboard/games and view the "Top Games Being Played By Everyone", and look at it using the "week" filter you will see that ESO is number 10 at 182K hours.  GW2 is at number 12 with 150K hours.  Since GW2 has been out for more than a year and ESO just came out last month, when do you think those numbers will start to flip flop? I would say in about another 2 to 3 weeks.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    Originally posted by nilden

    I'm very interested in seeing box sales, subscriptions, or any official sales numbers. I've been keeping an eye out and guess it would be all over this site if it was released like the 5 million registered for beta but not seeing anything yet. It's been over a month since release, what gives? Do you think they will ever release sales figures or did they do so bad that they never will?

     

    Most likely still many box sales still rolling in. Once the sales slow enough then they will release those numbers. To me it's a good sign.

    image

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    I doubt we'll see any box sales numbers before the console release, and then It will probably be "total sales across all platforms".

     

    Besides, if the numbers are "good", the haterz will simply say:

    • ZOS is lying or manipulating the numbers.
    • Sales do not mean subs.
    • Most of those sales stopped playing after 30 days.
    • Various other reasons why the "good" numbers are actually "bad".

     

    If the released numbers are bad, the haterz will accept them without question and say: "Look ! We told you so !"

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit
    Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
    Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit
    "10 millions of subscribed players."

    Oh, crap... has Knotwood returned with a new account name?

    ;-)

    Come on...

    ENTIRE MARKET OF ESO:

    2-3 million MMO playerse looking for a new game.

    2.8 million PC ES fans who bought Skyrim.

    17.2 million console ES fans who bought Skyrim.

    The fact that 4.8 million Oblivion copies sold.

    The fact that 4 million Morrowind copies sold.

    X million of console MMO players (unknown since no MMORPG has came to them since Xbox and PS2)

    X millions migrating to ESO from other gaems.

    PLUS:

    RETENTION RATE

    How well the retention rate you think this company can sustain with its updates and content expansions. Also considering its retention rate with its Single Player base as their first MMO ever. MMO player retention + ES fan player base retention.

    PLUS:

    ADVERTISMENT

    Amount of global advertisement. Will they run an advertisement campaign the size of WoW's with celebs, ect. world wide.

    EQUALS:

    10 million subs by the end of the year

    Do you even Math ?

    FFXIV is on (Xbox - not on xbox, my mistake) PS, released last year. There's Defiance as well and there's DUST for PS3. There's competition.

    Also as a console owner I never played a single mmorpg on it. I usually stick to the exclusive titles or some really good console games which I prefer playing while sitting or rather laying on a couch like Red Dead Redemption, GTA, Injustice, The Last of Us and similar.

    Now to comment on your numbers.

    I own a legendary edition of Skyrim on my steam account and I've been turned off by ESO in my first few hours in beta and never bought the game. So to say that ESO has that huge of a market is untrue and illogical. ESO has it's own market, just because it's an ES IP doesn't make any difference for it.

    The rest of the "millions numbers" I won't comment.

    I'm not sure how you came up with the idea that retention rate can be calculated by the IP fans or even that consumers care if the product they bought is the companies first type of the latter. Some parts of what I already wrote can be applied here as well and there's no certain way of telling how well will the game keep it's player base and for how long. Tho, judging by what I'm reading on forums and other web sources on how fast they're pushing out patches it's not looking bright for new content updates any time soon.

    Finally, the advertisment.

    To advertise something on the same scale as WOW did you need a lot of money first and that doesn't guarantee you'll even draw enough new customers to cover the costs of that advertisment. Global advertisment should be the last thing to pull.

    It's not a matter of simple math.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • nbtscannbtscan Phoenix, AZPosts: 774Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by amber-r

    Also you should keep in mind that numbers aren't always a good thing, look at FFXIV for instance.  Square offer up silly, meaningless numbers of "players".

     

    If ESO followed FFXIV tactics and gave out registered player numbers they would be many millions (yes beta players are also calculated in the registered player number).

    They said they had 2 million registered accounts with "500,000 unique daily logins" last time they reported.  I don't think the second number is meaningless.

     

    Originally posted by korent1991
    If I'm not mistaking, FFXIV is on Xbox and PS, released last year. There's Defiance as well and there's DUST for PS3. There's competition.

    FFXIV is on PS3, PS4 and PC.  Microsoft won't allow cross-platform play with XBL so Square-Enix haven't been able to come to terms with them to bring their game to their console.

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by nbtscan
    Originally posted by amber-r

    Also you should keep in mind that numbers aren't always a good thing, look at FFXIV for instance.  Square offer up silly, meaningless numbers of "players".

     

    If ESO followed FFXIV tactics and gave out registered player numbers they would be many millions (yes beta players are also calculated in the registered player number).

    They said they had 2 million registered accounts with "500,000 unique daily logins" last time they reported.  I don't think the second number is meaningless.

     

    Originally posted by korent1991
    If I'm not mistaking, FFXIV is on Xbox and PS, released last year. There's Defiance as well and there's DUST for PS3. There's competition.

    FFXIV is on PS3, PS4 and PC.  Microsoft won't allow cross-platform play with XBL so Square-Enix haven't been able to come to terms with them to bring their game to their console.

    My mistake, thanks for the report :)

    edited.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • CurragraigueCurragraigue PerthPosts: 84Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yoda_Clone

    Sales numbers are never put out early unless it's part of the marketing hype; that is, something they can clearly brag about as encouragement to others to buy the game and subscribe.

    Stockholders' quarterly sales reports and similar formal documentation required by law are the best indications of sales, and even those are usually full of double-talk.

    The only place I've ever been able to find accurate reports has been through investor channels; those aren't available to the general public.

    Given that they are private owned company and not publicly listed I don't think any of us will be seeing any of that information anytime soon. While I'm curious about sale figures I don't see how it really helps anyway to know at this stage, either you enjoy the game or you don't.

    I agree with other comments though if the sales figures had been great marketing would already have released those figures.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
    Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit
    Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
    Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit
    "10 millions of subscribed players."

    Oh, crap... has Knotwood returned with a new account name?

    ;-)

     

    Do you even Math ?

    How about 780 out of 800 on my math GRE's years ago... one of multiple degrees I hold.

    I've also been at every level of managment in very large companies, so I know "just a bit" about business.  Bad products do not end up with a large subscription base.

    So, kid aka Knotwood the second, do you do anything other than hype?

    That happens a lot here. I guess you have to be sarcastic to see it in others.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
    Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit
    Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
    Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit
    "10 millions of subscribed players."

    Oh, crap... has Knotwood returned with a new account name?

    ;-)

     

    Do you even Math ?

    How about 780 out of 800 on my math GRE's years ago... one of multiple degrees I hold.

    I've also been at every level of managment in very large companies, so I know "just a bit" about business.  Bad products do not end up with a large subscription base.

    So, kid aka Knotwood the second, do you do anything other than hype?

    That happens a lot here. I guess you have to be sarcastic to see it in others.

    That doesn't bode well for me because I got it right away and even chuckled out loud.

    I think it's curious that they haven't released numbers. I think if they were exceeding expectations we would see a news release. That makes me think sales and numbers aren't where they want them or aren't big enough to brag, but you never know. They could be waiting to rack up some numbers and then make a publicity stunt around the console release.

  • SephrosSephros Somewhere, CAPosts: 396Member Uncommon
    People with multiple degrees dont do jokes! Aint got time for dat!

    Error: No Keyboard Detected!
    Press F1 to continue......

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,742Member Uncommon

    They were so very quick to announce their beta numbers of 5 million. If they really sold very well they would be shouting it at the top of their lungs. Any game developer who shamelessly waves about beta figures as proof of its popularity would be very quick to show their sales if they were good.

    Knotwood has slunk away and not shown his face here since 6th of May . Probably afraid we may ask him about his outrageous predictions. Pity that thread got locked  or we could have used it when the figures come out.

     

    image

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
     

    That doesn't bode well for me because I got it right away and even chuckled out loud.

    I think it's curious that they haven't released numbers. I think if they were exceeding expectations we would see a news release. That makes me think sales and numbers aren't where they want them or aren't big enough to brag, but you never know. They could be waiting to rack up some numbers and then make a publicity stunt around the console release.

    No matter what they post the screaming morons on forums will spin it into a bad thing. Not knowing for as long as possible is the best play imo. It's obviously not good enough that they feel it will bring people in so why bother giving people more ammo...even if it's not a bad number.

    I'm sure you're very familiar with how much facts actually influence people who have a predetermined agenda to spout on about.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,262Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Well, Raptr shows ESO having about 100k more active user than Gw2.

    ESO- 268,435

    Gw2- 179,967

     

    and about 20k less total members. 

    gw2 - 419,416

    ESO - 268,435

     

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/eso-subscription-numbers/page/7/#post-491291

    Interesting tidbit that.  If you go to http://raptr.com/dashboard/games and view the "Top Games Being Played By Everyone", and look at it using the "week" filter you will see that ESO is number 10 at 182K hours.  GW2 is at number 12 with 150K hours.  Since GW2 has been out for more than a year and ESO just came out last month, when do you think those numbers will start to flip flop? I would say in about another 2 to 3 weeks.

    Here is something else interesting Xfire of the course of one month ESO has seen 0 decline. Steady as a rock. I can't recall seeing anything like that. They all dip.

  • reeereeereeereee Posts: 1,197Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
     

    That doesn't bode well for me because I got it right away and even chuckled out loud.

    I think it's curious that they haven't released numbers. I think if they were exceeding expectations we would see a news release. That makes me think sales and numbers aren't where they want them or aren't big enough to brag, but you never know. They could be waiting to rack up some numbers and then make a publicity stunt around the console release.

    No matter what they post the screaming morons on forums will spin it into a bad thing. Not knowing for as long as possible is the best play imo. It's obviously not good enough that they feel it will bring people in so why bother giving people more ammo...even if it's not a bad number.

    I'm sure you're very familiar with how much facts actually influence people who have a predetermined agenda to spout on about.

    I believe your statement would have been just as accurate and a bit more powerful if you had not included the section in red.

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