very well said. finally i can play mmo without pressure of gear grind, without worrying that i cant raid for 3 hours, 4 nights a week and cant be online at certain time and date or i will be replaced with someone else for raiding and wont get high end gears so i am not ready for next level of content and ask my friends and guild mates to run farm raids for me only and feel bad that i am slowing down others.this happened to me when i was playing rift and finally quit despite having friends there.
I LOVE GW2, and i am working on legendary weapon.no matter how long it will take i can just play and enjoy while working toward my goal.
Originally posted by Sajman01 The 'grind isn't necessary' argument that I hear from staunch supporters of GW2 has to be one of the dumbest arguments I've heard.
In what game is the grind necessary? You're not going to starve tomorrow if you don't raid in WoW. Seriously....
LOL!
Well you are right nobody would starve to death if they didn't raid in wow but since the game is built the way it is you would be really behind in anything you wanna do in the game with crap gear. This problem doesn't exist in GW2 so there is a difference.
Main reason it's boring to me is that no matter what level you achieve you can't never be that level as each area restrict you to the mobs level. So if I have beef with certain mob in certain area I can't ever say I'll be back for you in few levels to whoop your ass. Also I'm 37 I don't see anyone in all areas from lv 1- my current level, not a single person and this is supposed to be a mmo.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life" My opinion
My one true gripe with this game is armor damage. Sure it now costs nothing to have it repaired. But you still have to interrupt what you are doing to run off and have it repaired. With so many thing that will kill your char with a single hit why are we supposed to run off and get armor repairs. Last time it happened was fighting a champ, everything was going reasonably well with its hp down to under 1/4 then suddenly wham over a dozen chars with just one hit. I decide to leave complaining that it was pathetic, with people telling me that it is good to have a challenge. Which I agree with but you need to have a chance of survival to have a challenge other wise it is just a dead end waiting to happen. One of the replies to me complaining was that the game is not for lone wolf players to solo champs, no idea why they would say this with over a dozen dead chars...
Originally posted by Sajman01 The 'grind isn't necessary' argument that I hear from staunch supporters of GW2 has to be one of the dumbest arguments I've heard.
In what game is the grind necessary? You're not going to starve tomorrow if you don't raid in WoW. Seriously....
LOL!
Well you are right nobody would starve to death if they didn't raid in wow but since the game is built the way it is you would be really behind in anything you wanna do in the game with crap gear. This problem doesn't exist in GW2 so there is a difference.
No. There is no difference.
Since WoW introduced the LFR feature, there's nothing you can't do in the game anymore with the worst gear imaginable. Rift has chronicles, LoTRo has dungeon scaling, every game on the market now lets you see all the content in the game with terrible gear. It is no longer a Guild Wars 2 only feature.
Now that being said, Rift has hard modes, LoTRo has hard modes, WoW has hard modes, all of these are locked behind gear grinds. Guess what Guild Wars 2 has? Fractals, also locked behind a gear grind.
Is Arena gear better than Honor gear in WoW? Yup, about 15% better. Ascended gear vs Exotic gear? Yup, about 15% better.
They're all the same, which was the point I was trying to make. If you're going to sit here and say that the grind isn't necessary in Guild Wars 2 than it's not necessary in any of the other games either.
It's just ignorance to sit here and scream from the rooftops that GW2 doesn't force you to grind when it's the same as every other game on the planet.
Originally posted by Sajman01 The 'grind isn't necessary' argument that I hear from staunch supporters of GW2 has to be one of the dumbest arguments I've heard.
In what game is the grind necessary? You're not going to starve tomorrow if you don't raid in WoW. Seriously....
LOL!
Well you are right nobody would starve to death if they didn't raid in wow but since the game is built the way it is you would be really behind in anything you wanna do in the game with crap gear. This problem doesn't exist in GW2 so there is a difference.
No. There is no difference.
Since WoW introduced the LFR feature, there's nothing you can't do in the game anymore with the worst gear imaginable. Rift has chronicles, LoTRo has dungeon scaling, every game on the market now lets you see all the content in the game with terrible gear. It is no longer a Guild Wars 2 only feature.
Now that being said, Rift has hard modes, LoTRo has hard modes, WoW has hard modes, all of these are locked behind gear grinds. Guess what Guild Wars 2 has? Fractals, also locked behind a gear grind.
Is Arena gear better than Honor gear in WoW? Yup, about 15% better. Ascended gear vs Exotic gear? Yup, about 15% better.
They're all the same, which was the point I was trying to make. If you're going to sit here and say that the grind isn't necessary in Guild Wars 2 than it's not necessary in any of the other games either.
It's just ignorance to sit here and scream from the rooftops that GW2 doesn't force you to grind when it's the same as every other game on the planet.
Please enlighten us how does ascended gear compare to WoW Arena gear.
You dont even know what you compare. Someone mentioned dumb....
I just cant get into GW2. Id rather play guildwars. I have more fun creating random PvP chars in guildwars due to the skill system being so much more open.
Originally posted by Sajman01 The 'grind isn't necessary' argument that I hear from staunch supporters of GW2 has to be one of the dumbest arguments I've heard.
In what game is the grind necessary? You're not going to starve tomorrow if you don't raid in WoW. Seriously....
LOL!
Well you are right nobody would starve to death if they didn't raid in wow but since the game is built the way it is you would be really behind in anything you wanna do in the game with crap gear. This problem doesn't exist in GW2 so there is a difference.
No. There is no difference.
Since WoW introduced the LFR feature, there's nothing you can't do in the game anymore with the worst gear imaginable. Rift has chronicles, LoTRo has dungeon scaling, every game on the market now lets you see all the content in the game with terrible gear. It is no longer a Guild Wars 2 only feature.
Now that being said, Rift has hard modes, LoTRo has hard modes, WoW has hard modes, all of these are locked behind gear grinds. Guess what Guild Wars 2 has? Fractals, also locked behind a gear grind.
Is Arena gear better than Honor gear in WoW? Yup, about 15% better. Ascended gear vs Exotic gear? Yup, about 15% better.
They're all the same, which was the point I was trying to make. If you're going to sit here and say that the grind isn't necessary in Guild Wars 2 than it's not necessary in any of the other games either.
It's just ignorance to sit here and scream from the rooftops that GW2 doesn't force you to grind when it's the same as every other game on the planet.
(To show the equipped armor, accessory and weapon, click the Armor icon next to the Hexagon icon)
Power does have an 9.1% increase. (2033 *1.091 = 2218). Vitality shows a 2% increase. Ferocity, 6.7% increase.
Compare then Armor and Health, which increased 2.8% and 1.3% respectively. Finally, Crit Damage increased by 1.5%.
Average increase is 3.9%.
There is a limitation. Ascended accessories can only be slotted with infusion, which only grants 5 points to power in this test. Exotic accessories is more fluid since it can be slotted with any type of stat mixes.
I did the math before, and it's the reason why I don't bother with ascended gear.
PS: Also, you mentioned Arena and Honor gear. In GW2, sPvP is normalized, meaning everyone has the same tier of gear. No ascended gear in there. So if you want to sPvP (different from WvW), you don't have to grind for better gear, you don't have to grind for tokens to get better stats.
I won't lie though. There had been an implementation of skill purchase with the April 15 patch. Some of us hated that implementation, but it didn't give an unfair advantage to someone who plays their build properly. Granted, the new skills could open up new builds and could counter older builds.
Power does have an 9.1% increase. (2033 *1.091 = 2218). Vitality shows a 2% increase. Ferocity, 6.7% increase.
Compare then Armor and Health, which increased 2.8% and 1.3% respectively. Finally, Crit Damage increased by 1.5%.
Average increase is 3.9%.
There is a limitation. Ascended accessories can only be slotted with infusion, which only grants 5 points to power in this test. Exotic accessories is more fluid since it can be slotted with any type of stat mixes.
I did the math before, and it's the reason why I don't bother with ascended gear.
Ascended accessory gives 244 stat points with an infusion, an exotic accessory with gem gives 218 stat points. This is a 9% raw increase in stats. Ascended armor and weapon are much worse. Honestly, it doesn't make a difference to my argument. But you proved me wrong, I'll admit that.
Let's take Prideful which is WoW's arena gear, that's 7066 in stats. I know it's a stupid long number. Grievous which is WoW's honor gear has 5973 stats. That's an 8.5% difference, that's the difference between Ascended accessories and exotic accessories.
But again, the actual numbers don't matter. If you want to argue semantics, I'm not the guy to talk too, obviously terrible with numbers.
WoW's honor gear to arena gear is the same jump as exotic to ascended gear, more or less. If you can function in WvW with exotic gear than you can function in WoW with honor gear. If you say there isn't a necessity to grind Ascended gear in GW2 than you have to say there isn't a necessity to grind arena gear in WoW.
Both games are exactly the same. When you reach max level in GW2 you're in rares and with a little play you go to exotics. When you reach max level in WoW you're in rares and with a little play you go to epics. You can do everything in GW2 except fractals with exotics. You can do everything in WoW except hard modes with welfare epics.
Guild Wars 2 wasn't a WoW clone at launch but it is now. Outside of some sprinkles and terminology it's the same game.
Power does have an 9.1% increase. (2033 *1.091 = 2218). Vitality shows a 2% increase. Ferocity, 6.7% increase.
Compare then Armor and Health, which increased 2.8% and 1.3% respectively. Finally, Crit Damage increased by 1.5%.
Average increase is 3.9%.
There is a limitation. Ascended accessories can only be slotted with infusion, which only grants 5 points to power in this test. Exotic accessories is more fluid since it can be slotted with any type of stat mixes.
I did the math before, and it's the reason why I don't bother with ascended gear.
Ascended accessory gives 244 stat points with an infusion, an exotic accessory with gem gives 218 stat points. This is a 9% raw increase in stats. Ascended armor and weapon are much worse. Honestly, it doesn't make a difference to my argument. But you proved me wrong, I'll admit that.
Let's take Prideful which is WoW's arena gear, that's 7066 in stats. I know it's a stupid long number. Grievous which is WoW's honor gear has 5973 stats. That's an 8.5% difference, that's the difference between Ascended accessories and exotic accessories.
But again, the actual numbers don't matter. If you want to argue semantics, I'm not the guy to talk too, obviously terrible with numbers.
WoW's honor gear to arena gear is the same jump as exotic to ascended gear, more or less. If you can function in WvW with exotic gear than you can function in WoW with honor gear. If you say there isn't a necessity to grind Ascended gear in GW2 than you have to say there isn't a necessity to grind arena gear in WoW.
Both games are exactly the same. When you reach max level in GW2 you're in rares and with a little play you go to exotics. When you reach max level in WoW you're in rares and with a little play you go to epics. You can do everything in GW2 except fractals with exotics. You can do everything in WoW except hard modes with welfare epics.
Guild Wars 2 wasn't a WoW clone at launch but it is now. Outside of some sprinkles and terminology it's the same game.
Dude, just for comparing WvW and arenas gives you title of spotlight poster of the day
Power does have an 9.1% increase. (2033 *1.091 = 2218). Vitality shows a 2% increase. Ferocity, 6.7% increase.
Compare then Armor and Health, which increased 2.8% and 1.3% respectively. Finally, Crit Damage increased by 1.5%.
Average increase is 3.9%.
There is a limitation. Ascended accessories can only be slotted with infusion, which only grants 5 points to power in this test. Exotic accessories is more fluid since it can be slotted with any type of stat mixes.
I did the math before, and it's the reason why I don't bother with ascended gear.
Ascended accessory gives 244 stat points with an infusion, an exotic accessory with gem gives 218 stat points. This is a 9% raw increase in stats. Ascended armor and weapon are much worse. Honestly, it doesn't make a difference to my argument. But you proved me wrong, I'll admit that.
Let's take Prideful which is WoW's arena gear, that's 7066 in stats. I know it's a stupid long number. Grievous which is WoW's honor gear has 5973 stats. That's an 8.5% difference, that's the difference between Ascended accessories and exotic accessories.
But again, the actual numbers don't matter. If you want to argue semantics, I'm not the guy to talk too, obviously terrible with numbers.
WoW's honor gear to arena gear is the same jump as exotic to ascended gear, more or less. If you can function in WvW with exotic gear than you can function in WoW with honor gear. If you say there isn't a necessity to grind Ascended gear in GW2 than you have to say there isn't a necessity to grind arena gear in WoW.
Both games are exactly the same. When you reach max level in GW2 you're in rares and with a little play you go to exotics. When you reach max level in WoW you're in rares and with a little play you go to epics. You can do everything in GW2 except fractals with exotics. You can do everything in WoW except hard modes with welfare epics.
Guild Wars 2 wasn't a WoW clone at launch but it is now. Outside of some sprinkles and terminology it's the same game.
One thing that's different in GW2 is that there's no gear check. In WvW? You don't have to get Ascended gear, unless you're rolling with a hardcore WvW guild. Even then, with a hardcore WvW guild that I was in, they didn't ask for everyone to grind Ascended gear--just make sure you follow the commander, and you're good.
In sPvP? There's no ascended armor in sPvP. All armor is normalized. No need to grind for anything, unless you want the new healing skill and the new Grandmaster traits. The grandmaster traits you can acquire immediately in PvE and can also be bought with Skill Points and gold which you get in matches now.
In PvE? Now that's something else. I don't do dungeons, so I don't have a dog in that fight. I do see some LFG requests that players have Zerker sets, but sometimes I don't see "must have ascended". The only place I know that might require that is Fractals. Once again, I don't do dungeons since I'm more of a PvPer.
I will say that, yes, there is a gear grind in PvE if you want to max out your stats. And it could be the "WoW clone" part of the game.
But in PvP? Pfft. Our WvW guild is short on cash and couldn't afford ascended gear because we're constantly purchasing siege equipment, siege upgrades and food buffs. That's why they don't require you to get an ascended gear because WvW is the last place you'll grind for gold or mats.
And there's no season 1 gear, season 2 gear, season X gear in sPvP.
I haven't played WoW for a while (I do miss my DK), but comparing these two sets, assuming that Prideful is the next tier from Grievous, the average increase on all stats is 29.76%, not 15%.
Strength increased by 33.25% (6270 * 1.3325 = 8355). Stamina increased by 29%, Mastery by 38%, Armor by 8%, PvP Power by 29%, Crit Strike by 31%, Expertise by 31%, Haste by 31% and Hit rating by 33%.
Now, these numbers are unslotted.
Let's do a comparison with Ascended and Exotic unslotted and only five armor sets. You will see that Power increased by 1.08% (1197 * 1.0108 = 1210), Precision by 0.89%, Armor by 2% and Crit Damage by 0.61%.
PPS:
You said:
"Let's take Prideful which is WoW's arena gear, that's 7066 in stats. I know it's a stupid long number. Grievous which is WoW's honor gear has 5973 stats. That's an 8.5% difference, that's the difference between Ascended accessories and exotic accessories."
5973 * 1.085 = 6481. The math is wrong.
The real increase is 18.30% (5973 * 1.1830 = 7066)
(I am so bored. Working in accounting does that to ya'.)
Originally posted by Sajman01 The 'grind isn't necessary' argument that I hear from staunch supporters of GW2 has to be one of the dumbest arguments I've heard.
In what game is the grind necessary? You're not going to starve tomorrow if you don't raid in WoW. Seriously....
LOL!
Well you are right nobody would starve to death if they didn't raid in wow but since the game is built the way it is you would be really behind in anything you wanna do in the game with crap gear. This problem doesn't exist in GW2 so there is a difference.
No. There is no difference.
Since WoW introduced the LFR feature, there's nothing you can't do in the game anymore with the worst gear imaginable. Rift has chronicles, LoTRo has dungeon scaling, every game on the market now lets you see all the content in the game with terrible gear. It is no longer a Guild Wars 2 only feature.
Now that being said, Rift has hard modes, LoTRo has hard modes, WoW has hard modes, all of these are locked behind gear grinds. Guess what Guild Wars 2 has? Fractals, also locked behind a gear grind.
Is Arena gear better than Honor gear in WoW? Yup, about 15% better. Ascended gear vs Exotic gear? Yup, about 15% better.
They're all the same, which was the point I was trying to make. If you're going to sit here and say that the grind isn't necessary in Guild Wars 2 than it's not necessary in any of the other games either.
It's just ignorance to sit here and scream from the rooftops that GW2 doesn't force you to grind when it's the same as every other game on the planet.
Well I have played over 1200 hours and I havn't been forced to do the same dungeons over and over again, or chasing nodes and other stuff, Dailys get done just by playing the game doing what you want. I have never been denied doing a dungeon because I have low gear score or do low dps. I have been doing jumping puzzels because they are fun. I have done all dungeons atleast once, I play wvw on and of with my guildmates for fun, explored most of the map just didn't do all the hearts yet. Filled up a few spvp reward trees. storyline done, well to keep it short I have done everything except fractals cause haven't had time for them yet.
I have about 2000 gold and I don't have ascended or legendary weapons yet could by a legendary if I sold bank stuff but just haven't been needing one yet. I do have all the other ascended stuff.
I have been having fun in the game and sure if your only goal with a game is to get the best gear then I feel sorry for you and yes you are right if you want to grind in GW2 you can do that all day long every day of the week, maybe I haven't gotten to the point were I need to do that yet.
My point is that there are other stuff to do in GW2, it doesn't have the same linear end game like other mmos like wow. Althou I haven't played wow in a few years so I guess it could be that you can buy your whole armorset in AH and be apart of end game HC raids, is that possible?
In my days you wouldn't have a chance on playing an end game raid to kill the final boss of an expansion in wow with just AH bought gear.
I have been playing to have fun doing it more sandbox style insteed of the constant grind which is so boring, I think you should try it. Don't just buy a game and try to complete the end game in a week like your doing a job, try to take it slow and enjoy all aspects of the game.
I haven't played for a good few months now, but I will admit it's an absolutely fantastic game well worth the initial purchase.
Anyone on the fence should definitely give it a shot.
A lot of very intelligent game design work went into it and ArenaNet should be proud. I hope they're still enjoying great success with the title.
OH, also, I've never seen a game have so many updates... I swear when I was playing, every few weeks there was a new event, new content, etc. Just always something to do...
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
I do not post often anymore here cause I am to busy playing the game then posting on forums. So I to agree with the op this game offers more to me then most mmo's out there. In fact most mmo's have such a set path unlike some older titles that I can only play other mmo's for about 20 to 30 mins before I get really board and go play GW2 or Defiance cause they dont have a set path really your free to do as you please for the most part. They both have story missions and side stuff but you do not have to do them if you choose not to. I have 8 80's in GW2 none have leveled the same way or follow the zerker build most are builds I made to fit my playstyle which is a mix bag really I do decent damage and can do a mix of everything when needed.
To me most people play games for end game grind and that is cause most players have only ever done this one thing in end game they have not had the fun of just doing your own thing so they think if a game has no gear or some kind of path progression that the games lame or boring because all they know is what has become the norm in mmo's and that is gear grind for the best gear to do the next big thing the companies add to there game which is always a raid or dungeon that requires the top gear. GW2 did away with the need for top tier gear to play the max level content and instead made everything more equal across the board. The gear in GW2 is not that hard to get and once you do it becomes more clear that even with assended gear you do not get any better then when you had exotic I know I have full exotic on some of my characters and do not see the difference in it in any way other then Fractuals which A-net them selves said they put in for hard core players and I did that up to level 30 before I started to get assended gear and putting the mods for Agony resist. That is all Assended gear is really for anyway is to help you get more agony resist for fractuals.
So for me I will be playing more GW2 till a company can make a game that is better then it which might be a while sense ESO is not my type of game and nether is any game coming out over the next few years that I have seen. So have fun in what ever game your playing I am off.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Love the game as well. Not playing at the moment, for me it's work that is using all my free time at the moment, and that's the reason why the game works for me.
Fully intend to come back to the game, in fact I do once in a while, spend a bit of cash to show my support in the concept, and stop playing when real life gets in the way.
While I don't like everything about the game, the amount of fun I get by playing the game and levelling alts largely compensates for that.
To me most people play games for end game grind and that is cause most players have only ever done this one thing in end game they have not had the fun of just doing your own thing so they think if a game has no gear or some kind of path progression that the games lame or boring because all they know is what has become the norm in mmo's and that is gear grind for the best gear to do the next big thing the companies add to there game which is always a raid or dungeon that requires the top gear. GW2 did away with the need for top tier gear to play the max level content and instead made everything more equal across the board. The gear in GW2 is not that hard to get and once you do it becomes more clear that even with assended gear you do not get any better then when you had exotic I know I have full exotic on some of my characters and do not see the difference in it in any way other then Fractuals which A-net them selves said they put in for hard core players and I did that up to level 30 before I started to get assended gear and putting the mods for Agony resist. That is all Assended gear is really for anyway is to help you get more agony resist for fractuals.
Excellent ! I totally agree. Most people started with an MMO (WOW etc) that had quest after quest and gear as the carrot on the stick. It was a linear way to develop your character without much freedom.
I started with Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies. Both gave you tremendous freedom to play how you wanted.
I had a debate with a person on the Shroud of the Avatar main forums about this same issue. I proposed to make the gear like UO, (simple without drastic gear progression). Well, he was so used to WOW and getting the next great sword, he believed my idea was boring. He said he only plays to get the next great weapon or armor.
So he plays like a drone, just following a linear path in progression. He liked having his hand held as he played and didn't quite understand what sandbox or freedom to play meant.
Hey, for some people, thats what they enjoy. The hours and hours of raiding hoping for that "1" drop. I myself, I can't do that anymore. Too time consuming and I see it as a waste of time. You end up just worrying too much about gear and drops and don't enjoy everything the game has to offer. This leads players to only participate in content that improves their character's stats / gear and they begin to ignore : exploration, crafting, role playing and a slew of other content because those aspects of the game do not improve their gear directly.
This also leads those same people to only seek out guilds or players that are geared well enough to help them reach that elite status. In SWG, I witnessed so many guilds that split because some members weren't as well geared for high end PvP or PvE. They end up leaving good friends to succeed at the top level just because of gear.
GW2 is much more forgiving in this aspect. The gear is not crucial to participating, in most instances, only your skill and ability to communicate with your guild mates during events matters.
The good thing about gw2 is that I can log in and set my own goals. No required linear quest path. Oddly the same can be said for darkfall. You would think the two games couldnt be more different but they both can appeal to people that dont want their hand held.
To me most people play games for end game grind and that is cause most players have only ever done this one thing in end game they have not had the fun of just doing your own thing so they think if a game has no gear or some kind of path progression that the games lame or boring because all they know is what has become the norm in mmo's and that is gear grind for the best gear to do the next big thing the companies add to there game which is always a raid or dungeon that requires the top gear. GW2 did away with the need for top tier gear to play the max level content and instead made everything more equal across the board. The gear in GW2 is not that hard to get and once you do it becomes more clear that even with assended gear you do not get any better then when you had exotic I know I have full exotic on some of my characters and do not see the difference in it in any way other then Fractuals which A-net them selves said they put in for hard core players and I did that up to level 30 before I started to get assended gear and putting the mods for Agony resist. That is all Assended gear is really for anyway is to help you get more agony resist for fractuals.
Excellent ! I totally agree. Most people started with an MMO (WOW etc) that had quest after quest and gear as the carrot on the stick. It was a linear way to develop your character without much freedom.
I started with Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies. Both gave you tremendous freedom to play how you wanted.
I had a debate with a person on the Shroud of the Avatar main forums about this same issue. I proposed to make the gear like UO, (simple without drastic gear progression). Well, he was so used to WOW and getting the next great sword, he believed my idea was boring. He said he only plays to get the next great weapon or armor.
So he plays like a drone, just following a linear path in progression. He liked having his hand held as he played and didn't quite understand what sandbox or freedom to play meant.
Hey, for some people, thats what they enjoy. The hours and hours of raiding hoping for that "1" drop. I myself, I can't do that anymore. Too time consuming and I see it as a waste of time. You end up just worrying too much about gear and drops and don't enjoy everything the game has to offer. This leads players to only participate in content that improves their character's stats / gear and they begin to ignore : exploration, crafting, role playing and a slew of other content because those aspects of the game do not improve their gear directly.
This also leads those same people to only seek out guilds or players that are geared well enough to help them reach that elite status. In SWG, I witnessed so many guilds that split because some members weren't as well geared for high end PvP or PvE. They end up leaving good friends to succeed at the top level just because of gear.
GW2 is much more forgiving in this aspect. The gear is not crucial to participating, in most instances, only your skill and ability to communicate with your guild mates during events matters.
You have to understand a lot of people want their hand held, when they log in they want a game to tell them "go there do that then go there do that then go there do that then......" with big arrow leading the way. They dont want to think and want everything nicely laid out sprikled with ever (meaningless) increasing numbers to feel "leet". And thats fine, market is plagued with such games.
But to say GW2 is not good because it doesnt have that....is just moronic. "no endgame" "no progression (meaning meaningless gear progression"
Isnt getting to 80 with all classes progression? Isnt completing story with each race progression? Isnt getting gold to buy upgrades for your account progression? isnt getting better at the game, be it PvE/WvW/sPvP progression? Isnt decking out your character in nothing but rarest skins progression? Isnt finding all the hidden areas, or stuff that isnt marked (caves/events) on the map, or even in guides progression?
I wonder how many of those people ever won a tourney or participated in invitational tourney. So yes, they didnt move the progression from the first step, but ironically, bitch about progression.
Yes, its all progression, but many people cant wrap their head around it. Or that combat isnt so lazy and simplistic like trinity (first paragraph also applies on trinity).
To me most people play games for end game grind and that is cause most players have only ever done this one thing in end game they have not had the fun of just doing your own thing so they think if a game has no gear or some kind of path progression that the games lame or boring because all they know is what has become the norm in mmo's and that is gear grind for the best gear to do the next big thing the companies add to there game which is always a raid or dungeon that requires the top gear. GW2 did away with the need for top tier gear to play the max level content and instead made everything more equal across the board. The gear in GW2 is not that hard to get and once you do it becomes more clear that even with assended gear you do not get any better then when you had exotic I know I have full exotic on some of my characters and do not see the difference in it in any way other then Fractuals which A-net them selves said they put in for hard core players and I did that up to level 30 before I started to get assended gear and putting the mods for Agony resist. That is all Assended gear is really for anyway is to help you get more agony resist for fractuals.
Excellent ! I totally agree. Most people started with an MMO (WOW etc) that had quest after quest and gear as the carrot on the stick. It was a linear way to develop your character without much freedom.
I started with Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies. Both gave you tremendous freedom to play how you wanted.
I had a debate with a person on the Shroud of the Avatar main forums about this same issue. I proposed to make the gear like UO, (simple without drastic gear progression). Well, he was so used to WOW and getting the next great sword, he believed my idea was boring. He said he only plays to get the next great weapon or armor.
So he plays like a drone, just following a linear path in progression. He liked having his hand held as he played and didn't quite understand what sandbox or freedom to play meant.
Hey, for some people, thats what they enjoy. The hours and hours of raiding hoping for that "1" drop. I myself, I can't do that anymore. Too time consuming and I see it as a waste of time. You end up just worrying too much about gear and drops and don't enjoy everything the game has to offer. This leads players to only participate in content that improves their character's stats / gear and they begin to ignore : exploration, crafting, role playing and a slew of other content because those aspects of the game do not improve their gear directly.
This also leads those same people to only seek out guilds or players that are geared well enough to help them reach that elite status. In SWG, I witnessed so many guilds that split because some members weren't as well geared for high end PvP or PvE. They end up leaving good friends to succeed at the top level just because of gear.
GW2 is much more forgiving in this aspect. The gear is not crucial to participating, in most instances, only your skill and ability to communicate with your guild mates during events matters.
You have to understand a lot of people want their hand held, when they log in they want a game to tell them "go there do that then go there do that then go there do that then......" with big arrow leading the way. They dont want to think and want everything nicely laid out sprikled with ever (meaningless) increasing numbers to feel "leet". And thats fine, market is plagued with such games.
But to say GW2 is not good because it doesnt have that....is just moronic. "no endgame" "no progression (meaning meaningless gear progression"
Isnt getting to 80 with all classes progression? Isnt completing story with each race progression? Isnt getting gold to buy upgrades for your account progression? isnt getting better at the game, be it PvE/WvW/sPvP progression? Isnt decking out your character in nothing but rarest skins progression? Isnt finding all the hidden areas, or stuff that isnt marked (caves/events) on the map, or even in guides progression?
I wonder how many of those people ever won a tourney or participated in invitational tourney. So yes, they didnt move the progression from the first step, but ironically, bitch about progression.
Yes, its all progression, but many people cant wrap their head around it. Or that combat isnt so lazy and simplistic like trinity (first paragraph also applies on trinity).
I think logic is not allowed here, be gone WITCH! HSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
My only problem with GW2 is the lack of build variety. It does not offer a lot of freedom here. Without the Trinity, there is no reason to try anything but DPS. Nobody really wants any other builds except DPS to do the Dungeons and big bosses. There is no reason to build a support class or something like that. The PvE is just not balanced right for it.
I haven't played since before they made the big April changes. I always jump back in to see if the game has progressed further. Maybe I am nit exactly right, but this has been my experience....
My only problem with GW2 is the lack of build variety. It does not offer a lot of freedom here. Without the Trinity, there is no reason to try anything but DPS. Nobody really wants any other builds except DPS to do the Dungeons and big bosses. There is no reason to build a support class or something like that. The PvE is just not balanced right for it.
I haven't played since before they made the big April changes. I always jump back in to see if the game has progressed further. Maybe I am nit exactly right, but this has been my experience....
Yes, thas why im always scraping half of 'zerkers off the floor after "big boss" fights...not to mention super-mega events.
And i dont care too much for lobby style gaming in MMO any more (instanced dungeons and raids).
Just yesterday we were doing guild missions run. Dem dungeons zerkers couldnt hold 1 skritt tunnel...nnot to mention we failed crystal thingy because they kept dying and couldnt protect guy with the rifle. Oh, and just to mention, they pwn dungeons/fractals from...well....launch, no sweat.
So just no. Want to zerk in dungeons/lowbie fractals - fine. But if you do anything else stay off until you get some proper gear/build.
Comments
very well said. finally i can play mmo without pressure of gear grind, without worrying that i cant raid for 3 hours, 4 nights a week and cant be online at certain time and date or i will be replaced with someone else for raiding and wont get high end gears so i am not ready for next level of content and ask my friends and guild mates to run farm raids for me only and feel bad that i am slowing down others.this happened to me when i was playing rift and finally quit despite having friends there.
I LOVE GW2, and i am working on legendary weapon.no matter how long it will take i can just play and enjoy while working toward my goal.
LOL!
Well you are right nobody would starve to death if they didn't raid in wow but since the game is built the way it is you would be really behind in anything you wanna do in the game with crap gear. This problem doesn't exist in GW2 so there is a difference.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life"
My opinion
No. There is no difference.
Since WoW introduced the LFR feature, there's nothing you can't do in the game anymore with the worst gear imaginable. Rift has chronicles, LoTRo has dungeon scaling, every game on the market now lets you see all the content in the game with terrible gear. It is no longer a Guild Wars 2 only feature.
Now that being said, Rift has hard modes, LoTRo has hard modes, WoW has hard modes, all of these are locked behind gear grinds. Guess what Guild Wars 2 has? Fractals, also locked behind a gear grind.
Is Arena gear better than Honor gear in WoW? Yup, about 15% better. Ascended gear vs Exotic gear? Yup, about 15% better.
They're all the same, which was the point I was trying to make. If you're going to sit here and say that the grind isn't necessary in Guild Wars 2 than it's not necessary in any of the other games either.
It's just ignorance to sit here and scream from the rooftops that GW2 doesn't force you to grind when it's the same as every other game on the planet.
No game in history had unique builds (you are aware what unique means, right) and i progress in my own fields.
What you really ment was theres no forced gear progression. And you are right, this is game for hose who dont want just one more WoW clone.
Please enlighten us how does ascended gear compare to WoW Arena gear.
You dont even know what you compare. Someone mentioned dumb....
Not 15%.
Ascended: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQJARBAA-TVRVwAHU+BY/BU6CIq+jFlgBAQA+tvx3+GwKX5KX5KXZ/23+23+23AA-w
Exotic: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQJARBAA-TlxEwADUCeT5XK1fEu/gGdBAM/BA-w
(To show the equipped armor, accessory and weapon, click the Armor icon next to the Hexagon icon)
Power does have an 9.1% increase. (2033 *1.091 = 2218). Vitality shows a 2% increase. Ferocity, 6.7% increase.
Compare then Armor and Health, which increased 2.8% and 1.3% respectively. Finally, Crit Damage increased by 1.5%.
Average increase is 3.9%.
There is a limitation. Ascended accessories can only be slotted with infusion, which only grants 5 points to power in this test. Exotic accessories is more fluid since it can be slotted with any type of stat mixes.
I did the math before, and it's the reason why I don't bother with ascended gear.
PS: Also, you mentioned Arena and Honor gear. In GW2, sPvP is normalized, meaning everyone has the same tier of gear. No ascended gear in there. So if you want to sPvP (different from WvW), you don't have to grind for better gear, you don't have to grind for tokens to get better stats.
I won't lie though. There had been an implementation of skill purchase with the April 15 patch. Some of us hated that implementation, but it didn't give an unfair advantage to someone who plays their build properly. Granted, the new skills could open up new builds and could counter older builds.
Ascended accessory gives 244 stat points with an infusion, an exotic accessory with gem gives 218 stat points. This is a 9% raw increase in stats. Ascended armor and weapon are much worse. Honestly, it doesn't make a difference to my argument. But you proved me wrong, I'll admit that.
Let's take Prideful which is WoW's arena gear, that's 7066 in stats. I know it's a stupid long number. Grievous which is WoW's honor gear has 5973 stats. That's an 8.5% difference, that's the difference between Ascended accessories and exotic accessories.
But again, the actual numbers don't matter. If you want to argue semantics, I'm not the guy to talk too, obviously terrible with numbers.
WoW's honor gear to arena gear is the same jump as exotic to ascended gear, more or less. If you can function in WvW with exotic gear than you can function in WoW with honor gear. If you say there isn't a necessity to grind Ascended gear in GW2 than you have to say there isn't a necessity to grind arena gear in WoW.
Both games are exactly the same. When you reach max level in GW2 you're in rares and with a little play you go to exotics. When you reach max level in WoW you're in rares and with a little play you go to epics. You can do everything in GW2 except fractals with exotics. You can do everything in WoW except hard modes with welfare epics.
Guild Wars 2 wasn't a WoW clone at launch but it is now. Outside of some sprinkles and terminology it's the same game.
Dude, just for comparing WvW and arenas gives you title of spotlight poster of the day
(Math also kicks in that title)
One thing that's different in GW2 is that there's no gear check. In WvW? You don't have to get Ascended gear, unless you're rolling with a hardcore WvW guild. Even then, with a hardcore WvW guild that I was in, they didn't ask for everyone to grind Ascended gear--just make sure you follow the commander, and you're good.
In sPvP? There's no ascended armor in sPvP. All armor is normalized. No need to grind for anything, unless you want the new healing skill and the new Grandmaster traits. The grandmaster traits you can acquire immediately in PvE and can also be bought with Skill Points and gold which you get in matches now.
In PvE? Now that's something else. I don't do dungeons, so I don't have a dog in that fight. I do see some LFG requests that players have Zerker sets, but sometimes I don't see "must have ascended". The only place I know that might require that is Fractals. Once again, I don't do dungeons since I'm more of a PvPer.
I will say that, yes, there is a gear grind in PvE if you want to max out your stats. And it could be the "WoW clone" part of the game.
But in PvP? Pfft. Our WvW guild is short on cash and couldn't afford ascended gear because we're constantly purchasing siege equipment, siege upgrades and food buffs. That's why they don't require you to get an ascended gear because WvW is the last place you'll grind for gold or mats.
And there's no season 1 gear, season 2 gear, season X gear in sPvP.
PS:
Now that Wowhead is back. I did a comparative analysis on increase in stats with Prideful Gladiator's Desecration set with Grievous Gladiator's Desecration set.
I haven't played WoW for a while (I do miss my DK), but comparing these two sets, assuming that Prideful is the next tier from Grievous, the average increase on all stats is 29.76%, not 15%.
Strength increased by 33.25% (6270 * 1.3325 = 8355). Stamina increased by 29%, Mastery by 38%, Armor by 8%, PvP Power by 29%, Crit Strike by 31%, Expertise by 31%, Haste by 31% and Hit rating by 33%.
Now, these numbers are unslotted.
Let's do a comparison with Ascended and Exotic unslotted and only five armor sets. You will see that Power increased by 1.08% (1197 * 1.0108 = 1210), Precision by 0.89%, Armor by 2% and Crit Damage by 0.61%.
PPS:
You said:
"Let's take Prideful which is WoW's arena gear, that's 7066 in stats. I know it's a stupid long number. Grievous which is WoW's honor gear has 5973 stats. That's an 8.5% difference, that's the difference between Ascended accessories and exotic accessories."
5973 * 1.085 = 6481. The math is wrong.
The real increase is 18.30% (5973 * 1.1830 = 7066)
(I am so bored. Working in accounting does that to ya'.)
Well I have played over 1200 hours and I havn't been forced to do the same dungeons over and over again, or chasing nodes and other stuff, Dailys get done just by playing the game doing what you want. I have never been denied doing a dungeon because I have low gear score or do low dps. I have been doing jumping puzzels because they are fun. I have done all dungeons atleast once, I play wvw on and of with my guildmates for fun, explored most of the map just didn't do all the hearts yet. Filled up a few spvp reward trees. storyline done, well to keep it short I have done everything except fractals cause haven't had time for them yet.
I have about 2000 gold and I don't have ascended or legendary weapons yet could by a legendary if I sold bank stuff but just haven't been needing one yet. I do have all the other ascended stuff.
I have been having fun in the game and sure if your only goal with a game is to get the best gear then I feel sorry for you and yes you are right if you want to grind in GW2 you can do that all day long every day of the week, maybe I haven't gotten to the point were I need to do that yet.
My point is that there are other stuff to do in GW2, it doesn't have the same linear end game like other mmos like wow. Althou I haven't played wow in a few years so I guess it could be that you can buy your whole armorset in AH and be apart of end game HC raids, is that possible?
In my days you wouldn't have a chance on playing an end game raid to kill the final boss of an expansion in wow with just AH bought gear.
I have been playing to have fun doing it more sandbox style insteed of the constant grind which is so boring, I think you should try it. Don't just buy a game and try to complete the end game in a week like your doing a job, try to take it slow and enjoy all aspects of the game.
I haven't played for a good few months now, but I will admit it's an absolutely fantastic game well worth the initial purchase.
Anyone on the fence should definitely give it a shot.
A lot of very intelligent game design work went into it and ArenaNet should be proud. I hope they're still enjoying great success with the title.
OH, also, I've never seen a game have so many updates... I swear when I was playing, every few weeks there was a new event, new content, etc. Just always something to do...
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
I do not post often anymore here cause I am to busy playing the game then posting on forums. So I to agree with the op this game offers more to me then most mmo's out there. In fact most mmo's have such a set path unlike some older titles that I can only play other mmo's for about 20 to 30 mins before I get really board and go play GW2 or Defiance cause they dont have a set path really your free to do as you please for the most part. They both have story missions and side stuff but you do not have to do them if you choose not to. I have 8 80's in GW2 none have leveled the same way or follow the zerker build most are builds I made to fit my playstyle which is a mix bag really I do decent damage and can do a mix of everything when needed.
To me most people play games for end game grind and that is cause most players have only ever done this one thing in end game they have not had the fun of just doing your own thing so they think if a game has no gear or some kind of path progression that the games lame or boring because all they know is what has become the norm in mmo's and that is gear grind for the best gear to do the next big thing the companies add to there game which is always a raid or dungeon that requires the top gear. GW2 did away with the need for top tier gear to play the max level content and instead made everything more equal across the board. The gear in GW2 is not that hard to get and once you do it becomes more clear that even with assended gear you do not get any better then when you had exotic I know I have full exotic on some of my characters and do not see the difference in it in any way other then Fractuals which A-net them selves said they put in for hard core players and I did that up to level 30 before I started to get assended gear and putting the mods for Agony resist. That is all Assended gear is really for anyway is to help you get more agony resist for fractuals.
So for me I will be playing more GW2 till a company can make a game that is better then it which might be a while sense ESO is not my type of game and nether is any game coming out over the next few years that I have seen. So have fun in what ever game your playing I am off.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
Love the game as well. Not playing at the moment, for me it's work that is using all my free time at the moment, and that's the reason why the game works for me.
Fully intend to come back to the game, in fact I do once in a while, spend a bit of cash to show my support in the concept, and stop playing when real life gets in the way.
While I don't like everything about the game, the amount of fun I get by playing the game and levelling alts largely compensates for that.
Excellent ! I totally agree. Most people started with an MMO (WOW etc) that had quest after quest and gear as the carrot on the stick. It was a linear way to develop your character without much freedom.
I started with Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies. Both gave you tremendous freedom to play how you wanted.
I had a debate with a person on the Shroud of the Avatar main forums about this same issue. I proposed to make the gear like UO, (simple without drastic gear progression). Well, he was so used to WOW and getting the next great sword, he believed my idea was boring. He said he only plays to get the next great weapon or armor.
So he plays like a drone, just following a linear path in progression. He liked having his hand held as he played and didn't quite understand what sandbox or freedom to play meant.
Hey, for some people, thats what they enjoy. The hours and hours of raiding hoping for that "1" drop. I myself, I can't do that anymore. Too time consuming and I see it as a waste of time. You end up just worrying too much about gear and drops and don't enjoy everything the game has to offer. This leads players to only participate in content that improves their character's stats / gear and they begin to ignore : exploration, crafting, role playing and a slew of other content because those aspects of the game do not improve their gear directly.
This also leads those same people to only seek out guilds or players that are geared well enough to help them reach that elite status. In SWG, I witnessed so many guilds that split because some members weren't as well geared for high end PvP or PvE. They end up leaving good friends to succeed at the top level just because of gear.
GW2 is much more forgiving in this aspect. The gear is not crucial to participating, in most instances, only your skill and ability to communicate with your guild mates during events matters.
You have to understand a lot of people want their hand held, when they log in they want a game to tell them "go there do that then go there do that then go there do that then......" with big arrow leading the way. They dont want to think and want everything nicely laid out sprikled with ever (meaningless) increasing numbers to feel "leet". And thats fine, market is plagued with such games.
But to say GW2 is not good because it doesnt have that....is just moronic. "no endgame" "no progression (meaning meaningless gear progression"
Isnt getting to 80 with all classes progression? Isnt completing story with each race progression? Isnt getting gold to buy upgrades for your account progression? isnt getting better at the game, be it PvE/WvW/sPvP progression? Isnt decking out your character in nothing but rarest skins progression? Isnt finding all the hidden areas, or stuff that isnt marked (caves/events) on the map, or even in guides progression?
I wonder how many of those people ever won a tourney or participated in invitational tourney. So yes, they didnt move the progression from the first step, but ironically, bitch about progression.
Yes, its all progression, but many people cant wrap their head around it. Or that combat isnt so lazy and simplistic like trinity (first paragraph also applies on trinity).
I think logic is not allowed here, be gone WITCH! HSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
My only problem with GW2 is the lack of build variety. It does not offer a lot of freedom here. Without the Trinity, there is no reason to try anything but DPS. Nobody really wants any other builds except DPS to do the Dungeons and big bosses. There is no reason to build a support class or something like that. The PvE is just not balanced right for it.
I haven't played since before they made the big April changes. I always jump back in to see if the game has progressed further. Maybe I am nit exactly right, but this has been my experience....
Yes, thas why im always scraping half of 'zerkers off the floor after "big boss" fights...not to mention super-mega events.
And i dont care too much for lobby style gaming in MMO any more (instanced dungeons and raids).
Just yesterday we were doing guild missions run. Dem dungeons zerkers couldnt hold 1 skritt tunnel...nnot to mention we failed crystal thingy because they kept dying and couldnt protect guy with the rifle. Oh, and just to mention, they pwn dungeons/fractals from...well....launch, no sweat.
So just no. Want to zerk in dungeons/lowbie fractals - fine. But if you do anything else stay off until you get some proper gear/build.