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Freedom VS Safety (in mmos).

maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SMember Posts: 511 Uncommon

A poll.

 

 

 

"They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

Benjamim Franklin



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Comments

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHMember Posts: 5,736 Uncommon

    games thrive on conflict.

     

    proof: minecraft added combat.

    image

  • Matt_GeeMatt_Gee Elmira, NYMember Posts: 3
    That is one of my favorite quotes of all time image. It kind of leads the direction of the poll though.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAMember Posts: 14,247 Rare
    Depends on what I'm playing the MMO for. I play MO and EVE for the risk/reward and consequence to actions, so I would take freedom over safety in those. I play most other MMOs for the PvE or the non-combat PvP, so I would prefer safety over freedom in those. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDMember Posts: 3,358 Rare
    I like the ability to cheat and steal...the general freedom to trick people out of their accounts...but....I like the safety of knowing the company is going to keep my personal info safe...keep game exploits under control....choices choices.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member Posts: 5,743 Rare


    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    A poll.   "They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"Benjamim Franklin

    And yet Ben franklin chose to continue living in a society of laws, in a society that enforced those laws and drafted many new laws and then enforced those laws.

    Interesting don't you think?

    For those who don't get it, it means that he choose to sacrifice some liberty (not murdering, stealing....) for safety.

    So the better question is, "what are essential liberties?" and how do they apply in MMO's?

  • QuirhidQuirhid TampereMember Posts: 6,221 Uncommon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
      Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    A poll.
            "They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" Benjamim Franklin

     

    And yet Ben franklin chose to continue living in a society of laws, in a society that enforced those laws and drafted many new laws and then enforced those laws.

    Interesting don't you think?

    For those who don't get it, it means that he choose to sacrifice some liberty (not murdering, stealing....) for safety.

    So the better question is, "what are essential liberties?" and how do they apply in MMO's?

    "Freedom to oppress others." ...I wonder what Ben would've said about that.

    OP says freedom but means anarchy.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • VrikaVrika FinlandMember Posts: 3,465 Rare
    I feel that game-makers should be free to choose the most fun possible rules and features to their game, and safe in knowledge that adults understand those are not political nor ideological choices and won't try to dictate that because of some politic or ideology fun should be had this way and not that way.
  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHMember Posts: 5,736 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vrika
    The moment rules of a game become an ideological or political choice, I feel both freedom and safety to have fun have already been lost.

    is that true?

     

    in EVE, The Great War can be seen as a war between Elitism and Immaturity. I'd say that is a very interesting scenario with room for a lot of fun. Being able to identify yourself with your group as a polar opposite of the enemy group gives room for very strong communities to be formed.

     

    the first Clans were born when members with same interests decided to band together into gaming communities.

     

    in-game politics and in-game ideology makes room for awesome opportunities to have fun.

     

    In WoW in 2007 there was a guild raiding 8 hours/week at a progression exceeding most of the 25+ guilds in the server. We couldn't do what they can do, nor did we want to, but we respected them for being able to do that.

    image

  • VrikaVrika FinlandMember Posts: 3,465 Rare
    Robokapp that's not quite what I meant. I rewrote my earlier post, hope it's more clear now.
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCMember Posts: 4,818

    How is it freedom if someone else can choose how you play, for you ?

     

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAMember Posts: 3,828 Common


    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    "They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"Benjamim Franklin
    And Benjamin later went on to form all kinds of laws that limit freedoms. Nice words. Hard to practice.

    I voted "Safety", which I doubt surprises anyone. Player online have shown time and time again that they CAN NOT behave themselves. Because of these few, the rest have to suffer with limited Freedoms.

    I'd prefer freedom over safety. I just can not trust others to act accordingly.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • ethanlallaethanlalla Grants Pass, ORMember Posts: 79 Uncommon
  • GdemamiGdemami Member Posts: 10,048 Rare


    There is no freedom without safety.

  • VrikaVrika FinlandMember Posts: 3,465 Rare
    Originally posted by ethanlalla
    Freedom! http://www.faceofmankind.com/

    I don't necessarily agree, I think freedom: http://wizard101.com

  • KJ30KJ30 RomeMember Posts: 47

    You cannot have liberty without responsibility.

    Fear is the true foundation of safety.

  • eldariseldaris LondonMember Posts: 353 Uncommon

    If you want responsibility how about ffa games having permadeath followed by a complete ban of the account ? Really sad using quotes from patriots or revolutionaries which risked their own life to justify a style of play which exists only because the "hardcore" griefer is just risking a few hours of grinding again their armour/skills even in most hardcore ffa games.

  • KJ30KJ30 RomeMember Posts: 47
    Originally posted by eldaris
    If you want responsibility how about ffa games having permadeath followed by a complete ban of the account ? Really sad using quotes from patriots or revolutionaries which risked their own life to justify a style of play which exists only because the "hardcore" griefer is just risking a few hours of grinding again their armour/skills even in most hardcore ffa games.

    Hi eldaris,

    I was not trying to justify any playstyle , with the 2 quotes. What i was trying to point is that, Freedom without responsibility in every aspect of life and in game communities does not make any sense. Always somebody will try to take advantage of this freedom and create problems to the rest community. In an ideal world 9 out of 10 people/gamers would choose freedom. Unfortunately this is not the case.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko JohannesburgMember Posts: 5,734 Epic
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    A poll.    "They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" Benjamim Franklin

    Wonderful quote, and fine example of rhetoric.

     

    It's pure rhetoric because "essential Liberty" is not defined in that quote.

     

    So what that ringing quote really means is:

    "If you are prepared to give up (my definition of) Liberty, you deserve neither (my or your definition of) Liberty nor any Safety."

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid GinnungagapMember Posts: 8,047 Rare

    i choose freedom, any day. You can have safety without affecting freedom, but you cannot have freedom if there is too much safety. The problem is that game companies that try to promote "freedom of choice / do whatever you want", either do it wrong or they do it right but forget about the rest of the game so it falls flat.

     

    Gotta focus on the entire game. Trying to win people over by adding one cool feature and do presidential campaign level of marketing on that one feature only is not good for games, gamers, and game makers.

    image
  • LithuanianLithuanian vilniusMember Posts: 261 Uncommon
    Safety only.  Can't see use of huge world where on every step my lvl.7 toon may be and will ge killed by some lvl. 77 just out of fun. Just because I am lvl.7 or because it is Monday or just because "noobz deserve to die".
  • eldariseldaris LondonMember Posts: 353 Uncommon


    Originally posted by KJ30
    Originally posted by eldaris If you want responsibility how about ffa games having permadeath followed by a complete ban of the account ? Really sad using quotes from patriots or revolutionaries which risked their own life to justify a style of play which exists only because the "hardcore" griefer is just risking a few hours of grinding again their armour/skills even in most hardcore ffa games.
    Hi eldaris,

    I was not trying to justify any playstyle , with the 2 quotes. What i was trying to point is that, Freedom without responsibility in every aspect of life and in game communities does not make any sense. Always somebody will try to take advantage of this freedom and create problems to the rest community. In an ideal world 9 out of 10 people/gamers would choose freedom. Unfortunately this is not the case.


    Sorry, I was referring to OP quote but saw your post about responsibility and used that in the start of my post. I agree with you about responsibility and this is the problem with ffa pvp - a small number of people have the freedom to destroy the game while there is no way to keep the griefers under control, they only lose a few hours of game time needed to farm the items/skills again.

  • AdamantineAdamantine NowhereMember Posts: 3,880 Uncommon

    What. The. Frak ?

     

    I would need a BIT more explanation.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Member Posts: 6,495 Uncommon

    How can you have Freedom if there's no Safety?

     

    Anything forced upon players is not Freedom to me.

  • NadiaNadia Topsham, MaineMember Posts: 11,866 Uncommon

    I'm reminded of New Hampshires state motto:  LIVE FREE OR DIE

    (its on all the auto license plates)

  • KanethKaneth Member Posts: 2,109 Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
      Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    "They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
      Benjamim Franklin
    And Benjamin later went on to form all kinds of laws that limit freedoms. Nice words. Hard to practice.

     

    I voted "Safety", which I doubt surprises anyone. Player online have shown time and time again that they CAN NOT behave themselves. Because of these few, the rest have to suffer with limited Freedoms.

    I'd prefer freedom over safety. I just can not trust others to act accordingly.

    Agreed 100%. Freedom is nice, but it's only truly reliable among small communities. As long as the the griefers can hide in numbers and anonymity freedom will be mostly a pipe dream.

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