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ESO Review by Tom's Hardware

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Comments

  • MalaboogaMalabooga aadadaPosts: 1,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FlyByKnight

    I wish to work on the dungeon design staff for ESO.  Here is my portfolio:

     

    b

    Mines better:

    b b

    Im READY ZENIMAX i worked REALLY HARD on this! b;

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Asm0deus

     


    Conclusion

     

    It’s pretty in parts, but there’s not a whole lot there. The Elder Scrolls Online is the empty, dull train ride that everyone feared it would be, and the millions spent on a fancy new MMO-capable engine and scant A-list voice acting peppered through the too-rare prime fiction, leave the player wanting. Trying desperately to find the fun, and failing. This really isn’t a true blue sequel to the Elder Scrolls series in any sense of the thing. These many sins could be easier to swallow if it weren’t for the gargantuan price tag associated with the game, not just vanilla, but the all-but-required Imperial Edition. There are free-to-play games out right now with orders of magnitude better gameplay and more content: Dungeons & Dragons Online, Star Trek Online, and of course World of Warcraft. WildStar is another up-and-comer that looks immensely promising, with player housing and a refreshing sense of humor.

    Shallow, generic, bland, meh, flavorless, vapid, uninspiring, monotonous, ho hum, pedestrian, plodding, mundane, trite, empty, devoid. I’m terribly reminded of the seminal 80s flick “The Neverending Story”, where hero Bastian fights to save Fantasia from “The Nothing”, an elemental force of the absence of content that ate through pages of interesting story and engaging plot. The Elder Scrolls Online is the game you’d get if The Nothing had won and decided to release an MMO based on a best-selling gaming franchise.

    Can The Elder Scrolls Online recover from this? This reviewer can’t say. Final Fantasy XIV had a disastrous launch along similar content-absence problems, went back to the drawing board and returned a year later to re-launch with a more fleshed-out experience, and a mea culpa by Square Enix. The Elder Scrolls Online could foreseeably do something similar and populate its vast world with content worthy of the license, but first impressions tend to be everything in the crowded arena of online gaming, especially where subscriptions are involved.

    We’ll see.


     

    I knew the game had issues but ouch lol. One more reason to wait for it to go f2p I guess.

    wow this is getting deep.

    image

  • onemanwolfonemanwolf Spring Lake, NCPosts: 20Member
    Wow an honest review that isn't kissing up to the publisher like IGN and MMORPG which gave it the highest review I have seen over all of the interwebs.......  Gamespot has a good review that is closer to reality and honest like Toms hardware.   Buyer beware do not I repeat do not buy this game wait and see if they fix everything and then pay half of what they are asking for...
  • mindw0rkmindw0rk St-petersburgPosts: 1,351Member
    Very good review and accurate resume. Dull and boring. Thats what I felt playing TESO
  • RattenmannRattenmann ReitmehringPosts: 510Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    People complaining about a game launching with 30 unique dungeons and 100 variations... 

     

    You...call... that... dungeons?

    WHAT? That are small bear caves AT BEST. Go look up DAoC or Everquest for how a dungeon looks.

    MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

    Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    I want to see those faces from people praising the game now and once they enter the lowby veteran zones quest grind.

    Once the flok of mainstream player reach V1+ they quickly realise this game is so shallow and unsub and come back here to say YES SIR YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG !!!

    ESO is not a bad mmo, but many decisions needs a big big facepalm.

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member

    That was an excellent review. Very well researched.

     

    ESO sums up everything that is wrong with MMORPGs today.

  • BetaBlockaBetaBlocka WrexhamPosts: 222Member

    A well researched and well written review imo. Way better than most of the reviews I have read.

     

    Lol at all the desperate fanboys trying to validate "their" game with sad hyperbole and attacks on the reviewers credability. For example, when the reviewer highlights all the bad copy/paste "dungeons" they all rush to trash him and make excuses like "They are not even dungeons they are delves"....when the fricking GAME even labels them as public dungeons lol.

     

    A few posts later, amidst many more attacks on the reviewers credability we have sensationalist words like deceit and deception being bandied around....omg guys this is not war time Europe, its a review about a computer game. The problem is the review is honest, frank and accurate which just doesn't make good reading for some...

     

    Hence it's too emotional, whereas all of the utter garbage spouted by gushing fanboys has never once been dismissed as born out of emotion and therefore untrustworthy....you know a game sucks when even the hardcore defenders have only hypocrisy left with which to assert the games positive points.

     

    I think ESO will be lucky to retain 30% of the initial population, with still no word on sales/numbers it does not look good in the long run. Even in the microcosm of my own personal life every singel person I know who bought the game has since stopped playing and cancelled. Every. Single. One.

     

    The game really is just shallow and boring, it suffers from a huge identity crisis, not knowing whether it wants to be a single player ES experience or a mmorpg experience. That lack of vision, along with some very poor design decisions results in a decidedly average single player experience with a decidedly average mmorpg bolted (or forced) on to the product.

     

    At this point I think a total re-vamp ala FF IS the only way to rescue the game and see it live up to it's initial promise. I think after the last few years, gamers have finally had enough of paying for "decidedly average" and maybe ESO was just unlucky with its release timing, that it caught the backlash from a larger shift in attitudes accross the gaming community.

  • Covet78Covet78 ottawa, ONPosts: 142Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loke666

    While he do have some points (like the repeating of dungeons, I for one rather have 10 huge well made dungeons then 74 small repeated) he did only play 20 levels and then review a MMO so the review is really only good for the noob experience.

    And yes, 20 levels of any MMO ain't enough for a fair review, we seen that many times in the past (remember the 20 level AoC reviews, anyone?). He also writes that the game never gets better ut with a limited noob experience, how does he know?

    I read it when it was posted a week ago BTW and I am too lazy to see if something have been added since. :)

    In most mmo's you are correct. However, in ESO, leveling from 1-20 is the exact same experience from leveling from Vet rank 1 to vet rank 2. and leveling from 20-30 is the same as leveling from vet rank 2 to vet rank 3.

    The game is just one big copy past. everything is the same. Once you do one zone, the next zone just feels like a copy/past. Once you hit VR1, you are still doing the copy/past content. it's like there was only 4 architects in the land. Every house and town feel the same, look the same. You walk into an inn, you know the exact layout before you enter because you've been in 30 others exactly like it. Every Inn is the same layout. Every Manor is the same layout. 

     

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by onemanwolf
    Wow an honest review that isn't kissing up to the publisher like IGN and MMORPG which gave it the highest review I have seen over all of the interwebs.......  Gamespot has a good review that is closer to reality and honest like Toms hardware.   Buyer beware do not I repeat do not buy this game wait and see if they fix everything and then pay half of what they are asking for...

    That's because he was paid by the competition for the negative review silly!

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,745Member Uncommon

     

     

     

    image

    I weep no one creates dungeons like these anymore. I recall countless hours spent in fear,trepidation,relief and occasional triumph in this one.

    image

  • summitussummitus TimbuktuPosts: 1,414Member
    Tom's Hardware who  is he ? , does he sell nuts and bolts and paint and stuff ? He might as well , I for one am sick of these idiots jumping on the hate bandwagon for more web traffic. ESO isn't great by any means but its nowhere near as bad as these Hardware Stores would have you believe. sigh.
  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,745Member Uncommon

    I remember getting so lost in a dungeon ,think it was Runny Eye or Befallen or both anyway I sat down and actually drew out the path so that I would not keep getting lost. Both these dungeons are places you can die over and over again if you venture in there alone and with a poor sense of direction.I was truly scared in there and  I was actually going for my corpse and I followed some other group to get protection. All that feeling of terror of losing my corpse again and again and just adventure that you cannot find any more in any game these days. 

     

    It is not ESO's fault  but no game these days can really do what Everquest did for me.

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  • Stuka1000Stuka1000 Posts: 872Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by summitus
    Tom's Hardware who  is he ? , does he sell nuts and bolts and paint and stuff ? He might as well , I for one am sick of these idiots jumping on the hate bandwagon for more web traffic. ESO isn't great by any means but its nowhere near as bad as these Hardware Stores would have you believe. sigh.

    Actually mate Tom's hardware is one of the most respected sites on the net for hardware reviews and testing.  Mostly hardware but they are getting the software hat on as well now.  Think of them as a kind of computer stuff 'Which'.

  • eccotoneccoton Pinehurst, NCPosts: 1,328Member
    I never liked the ES single player games much. I am surprised that I enjoy ESO as much as I do. I find it to be a fun engaging game. Not the greatest but well worth the ticket price. Because I am not a fan of ES I am not sure what people expected. As for me Tom's review means nothing I am having fun, that is all that matters to me.
  • summitussummitus TimbuktuPosts: 1,414Member
    Originally posted by Stuka1000
    Originally posted by summitus
    Tom's Hardware who  is he ? , does he sell nuts and bolts and paint and stuff ? He might as well , I for one am sick of these idiots jumping on the hate bandwagon for more web traffic. ESO isn't great by any means but its nowhere near as bad as these Hardware Stores would have you believe. sigh.

    Actually mate Tom's hardware is one of the most respected sites on the net for hardware reviews and testing.  Mostly hardware but they are getting the software hat on as well now.  Think of them as a kind of computer stuff 'Which'.

    Well maybe , but not for me. thanks for the info though ;)

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member
    Originally posted by hammarus
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Panzerbase

    Someone who plays or cares about the game would have to answer this, but if I remember correctly, the dungeons were copy/pasted in place because they weren't the point of the game.  The existed, you could certainly run through them, but the point of the game was something else entirely.  I don't recall anyone ever saying they completed twenty dungeons or whatever and being excited about it.

     

    There's no disputing that the dungeons are all kind of "same-y" looking and feeling.  They are.  There's no reason to deny it.  But how important is this?  How much content is wrapped up in the dungeons?  Is this a complaint about Elder Scrolls in general since this is something that comes up with all the Elder Scrolls games, or is this a complaint about the dungeons not living up to the expectations of MMORPG players?

     

    So exactly what is the point of the game? I'd like to think it's whatever makes for a fun gaming experience for each individual player in the game. You simply can't claim some mysterious point to the game (which you have yet to divulge) but claim that it's certainly not dungeons. Are you trying to say dungeons aren't important to ESO? That doesn't make any sense.

    You ask how important it is? Well the multiple posts on this thread and the numerous other threads and posts on this site alone say it's VERY important. The dungeons are bland and boring, and that's a function of the decisions ESO developers made. So yes of course it's about ESO! I think the last question is easily answered by a quick review of the posts on this topic. 

    In short ESO made some serious missteps and the gamers are not fooled. Can they recover? Unlikely, the game is fundamentally flawed and I don't see them starting from scratch. it will become the fantasy version of SWOTR, satisfying the truly devote.

     

    The complaints on this website are absolutely not indicative of anything other than people who will find a point, any point they can and hammer away at it until they feel like they've proven that the game they don't like sucks.  It's the same thing with every other stupid argument that can be had on these forums.  People pick the one point they can find, and then act as if that one point is the only thing the game has to offer.  So no, dungeons don't have to be the point of ESO.  They don't have to be that important at all.  If they comprise about 5% of a player's overall game time, or if they are optional for players, then they aren't that important and they aren't the point of the game.

     

    For instance, are dungeons the point of Darkfall?  No, they are not.  What about A Tale in the Desert?  Nope.  They are very important for WoW, certainly, but not nearly as important for Rift.  Do they even exist in Eve?  It just depends on the game.

     

    So first, we must know how important dungeons are to ESO, because they weren't that important to the Elder Scrolls in general.  Not important enough to spend time making decent dungeons anyway.  There are many other things players could be doing in the game that are not these lame dungeons.

     

    I disagree with you on this point.  The dungeons are an important factor in any game as they provide a sense of the "unexplored danger".  Take away that sense and substitute in  deja vu and you have removed one of the keystones of game play.

    And with the last installment of ES, Skyrim.  One of the most notable companion npc comments was ..."Oh look a cave!  I wonder what is in there."  To claim they have not played an important role, and most especially in an ES title is just plain wrong.  A good bulk of any ES title story line will have you traversing and exploring caves, caverns, dungeons and tunnels.

     

    This would fall under "Opinions Don't Equal Reality".  You are welcome to your opinion, but we still haven't gotten any sort of objective look at the dungeons that actually takes into consideration the entire rest of the game.  Not in this thread anyway.

    • How much time do actual players spent in the copy/pasted dungeons as opposed to the amount of time opinionated forumites think should be spent there?
    • How much of the player's story occurs in the copy/pasted dungeons, as opposed to the amount of time opinionated forumites think should occur there?
     
    If a very little bit of time is spent in the copy/pasted dungeons, it doesn't matter.  If a lot of time is spent in dungeons, but it's not in any of the copy/pasted dungeons, it doesn't matter.
     
     
    **
     
    The part that should tip people off that this is just people jumping on a point in an argument that they think is valid, but have no idea what they're talking about is that it's been awhile since ESO released, Tom's Hardware is the first review to mention this, and this is the first time that anyone on MMORPG.com has gotten all pissy about it.  If this was an actual thing, it would have been mentioned before now as an actual issue.  As opposed to say, the issue of MMORPG game mechanics directly conflicting with established Elder Scrolls game play.  Something that was mentioned and talked about before the game even released.
     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     

    This would fall under "Opinions Don't Equal Reality".  You are welcome to your opinion, but we still haven't gotten any sort of objective look at the dungeons that actually takes into consideration the entire rest of the game.  Not in this thread anyway.

    • How much time do actual players spent in the copy/pasted dungeons as opposed to the amount of time opinionated forumites think should be spent there?
    • How much of the player's story occurs in the copy/pasted dungeons, as opposed to the amount of time opinionated forumites think should occur there?
     
    If a very little bit of time is spent in the copy/pasted dungeons, it doesn't matter.  If a lot of time is spent in dungeons, but it's not in any of the copy/pasted dungeons, it doesn't matter.
     
     
    **
     
    The part that should tip people off that this is just people jumping on a point in an argument that they think is valid, but have no idea what they're talking about is that it's been awhile since ESO released, Tom's Hardware is the first review to mention this, and this is the first time that anyone on MMORPG.com has gotten all pissy about it.  If this was an actual think, it would have been mentioned before now as an actual issue.  As opposed to say, the issue of MMORPG game mechanics directly conflicting with established Elder Scrolls game play.  Something that was mentioned and talked about before the game even released.
     

    People have been talking about dungeons since before beta. People often talked about their overly simple design. Instead of the letter "b," they would make a little ascii diagram to show what they look like.

     

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    Besides that, your idea that an objective way to look at how much quality the dungeons should have, is based on the amount of time the developers think the player should want to be there, is ridiculous. You built your entire argument on this strange idea that low quality is ok because the developers never intended for players to experience them often. Your idea lacks as much objectivity as people's opinions that they don't like their current implementation. It's completely ok for people to express their opinion about the lack of variety. You are never going to be able to invent an objective way of judging dungeons because there isn't one.

  • blastermasterblastermaster Cap-aux-Meules, QCPosts: 149Member Uncommon

    Man..  why are you all stucked on these "caves" still?

    They are'nt dungeons like what most people think when they refer to dungeons.. Granted they might be called "public dungeons", but still.. use your common sense here!

    I've seen worse copy paste in single player games (Mass Effect side missions anyone?!)  and while it can be commented on (it would really be better to not have any of this copy/paste), it's nothing new and not as strong a point against a game as some of you try to make it be.

     

    These are the actual "dungeons", and none is a copy past of the other..  (like I said before, they are'nt old school dungeons like we had in EQ, but they are far from that "b" design you guys are using to ditch the game.)

    Aldmeri Dominion Group Dungeons

    Daggerfall Covenant Group Dungeons

    Ebonheart Pact Group Dungeons

    + Veteran versions of each, which adds story, new boss mechanics,etc..

  • silverreignsilverreign Whitehouse, TXPosts: 401Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by nastyjman
    Dang. ESO can't get a break, can they?

    nope. thing is its not a bad game at all. even more funny is the people complaining about the game and bashing it r generally v1 or higher. so they dont like the game yet have played enough to get that high. i have been playing since headstart and im only lvl 36. im so tired of people complaining about this game all because its $15/month. if u cant afford it then u shouldnt b playing video games. its entertainment. people also bitch they dont feel the game is worth the sub fee or they feel they have to play a ton to justify the price. is a 2.5 hour movie worth the price when u can pay that for unlimited entertainment?

    image

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon

    The writer did hit the nail on the head for the most part. However, I felt it was refreshing to have some more classic features in MMOs. The "hell levels" from V1-10 is something I personally welcome back into the genre. In the end the game can't stand on its own at this rate.

    Massive amounts of bugs across the board; especially when you're looking at classes and skill lines. Even after leaving last week I've kept track of the fixes they've done and it's not much. Just a few quest fixes, alterations to skills in PvP, and a much needed nerf to vampires. Yet I can pull up a nice long list of many things that remain broken which hinder a classes ability to function.

     

    Alliance War
    General

    • The Elder Scroll beacon effect will no longer vanish when the carrier uses the vampire ability Mist Form.
    • You can no longer use the ability Bolt Escape while carrying an Elder Scroll.


    Combat & Gameplay
    Vampire

    • Fixed an issue with the ability Bat Swarm so it will no longer stack with itself. It will instead refresh if re-cast.
    • Reduced the cost reduction per stage of vampire abilities.
    • Reduced the movement speed bonus of the ability Mist Form.


    Werewolf

    • Fixed an issue that would cause some werewolves to retain the speed boost indefinitely.


    Dungeons & Group Content
    Veteran Dungeons

    • Darkshade Caverns: Fixed an issue where you could gain more loot than intended from bosses.


    Inventory & Bank
    Guild Store

    • Reduced the cost of listing an item in a guild store.
    • Reduced the amount of gold taxed on the sale of an item in a guild store.


    Mail

    • Significantly reduced the cost of sending C.O.D. mail.
    • Fixed an issue where the postage fee percentage for C.O.D. mail was not working as intended.
    • Fixed an issue where you were still being charged a postage fee for C.O.D. mail even if the recipient name was invalid.


    Miscellaneous
    General

    • Fixed a server-related issue that should improve performance in Cyrodiil.


    Quests
    General

    • Removed traces of translation tags for items in the guild stores.


    Alik’r Desert

    • Whose Wedding: Slicer can now be interacted with consistently.


    Auridon

    • Sever All Ties: You can now use all three portals, and fight High Kinlady Estre.
    • A Hostile Situation: Captain Astanya will no longer get stuck and block your quest progress.


    Coldharbour

    • The Final Assault: You can now light the final brazier.
    • What the Heart Wants: Stibbons will now proceed through the door at the end of the cave, progressing the quest.


    Deshaan

    • Mine All Mine: You can now complete the quest step to "Clear the Harvest Room" when all the monsters in the room are killed.
    • Vision Quest: The Imp will now consistently appear and open the portal.


    Fighters Guild

    • The Prismatic Core: Portals will now consistently appear.


    Glenumbra

    • Rally Cry: You can interact with Shaza and progress with the quest.
    • Seeking the Guardians: Fixed an issue where the voiceover dialogue was in the incorrect language.


    Grahtwood

    • The Blacksap's Hold: Maeroth can now be found where expected.
    • Scars Never Fade: You are now able to duel hunters to advance the quest.


    Greenshade

    • Report to Marbruk: You will no longer have issues completing "Striking at the Heart" before "Report to Marbruk."
    • Moonhenge's Tear: The Key of Strife and Key of Discord will now drop when the appropriate enemy is defeated, and all prisoners can now be freed.
    • Witch of Silitar: Fixed an issue where relogging or crashing during Aranias' demonstration would block your progress.
    • Mist and Shadow: You can now find Mel Adrys where expected.


    Mages Guild

    • Circus of Cheerful Slaughter: You will now be able to interact with Valaste, and can also find Sheogorath.


    Malabal Tor

    • Fulfilling One's Fate: Guardian Celonron's spirit will now appear when you are directed to kill him.


    Reaper’s March

    • Motes in the Moonlight: The Dark Mane will no longer reset in the middle of the fight, blocking quest progression.
    • On the Doorstep: You can now interact with Gnolas and the Crystal.
    • The First Step: You will no longer get stuck on the quest step "Watch the Ceremony."


    Rivenspire

    • A Traitor's Tale: The King and General will no longer disappear unexpectedly.


    Shadowfen

    • Clarity: Binding Crystals will now appear when expected.


    Stormhaven

    • Godrun's Dream: Fixed an issue where monsters were not set at the intended difficulty level for Silver and Gold players.


    UI
    Chat

    • Fixed an issue that would cause the guild officer chat channel to break. Typing /officer1 will now properly send a message to all officers in your first guild.
     
     

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    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     

    This would fall under "Opinions Don't Equal Reality".  You are welcome to your opinion, but we still haven't gotten any sort of objective look at the dungeons that actually takes into consideration the entire rest of the game.  Not in this thread anyway.

    • How much time do actual players spent in the copy/pasted dungeons as opposed to the amount of time opinionated forumites think should be spent there?
    • How much of the player's story occurs in the copy/pasted dungeons, as opposed to the amount of time opinionated forumites think should occur there?
     
    If a very little bit of time is spent in the copy/pasted dungeons, it doesn't matter.  If a lot of time is spent in dungeons, but it's not in any of the copy/pasted dungeons, it doesn't matter.
     
     
    **
     
    The part that should tip people off that this is just people jumping on a point in an argument that they think is valid, but have no idea what they're talking about is that it's been awhile since ESO released, Tom's Hardware is the first review to mention this, and this is the first time that anyone on MMORPG.com has gotten all pissy about it.  If this was an actual think, it would have been mentioned before now as an actual issue.  As opposed to say, the issue of MMORPG game mechanics directly conflicting with established Elder Scrolls game play.  Something that was mentioned and talked about before the game even released.
     

    People have been talking about dungeons since before beta. People often talked about their overly simple design. Instead of the letter "b," they would make a little ascii diagram to show what they look like.

     

                          |

    __________________________

    |                                                  |

    |                                                  |

    |                                                  |

    |_________________________|

     

    Besides that, your idea that an objective way to look at how much quality the dungeons should have, is based on the amount of time the developers think the player should want to be there, is ridiculous. You built your entire argument on this strange idea that low quality is ok because the developers never intended for players to experience them often. Your idea lacks as much objectivity as people's opinions that they don't like their current implementation. It's completely ok for people to express their opinion about the lack of variety. You are never going to be able to invent an objective way of judging dungeons because there isn't one.

     

    Every feature in a game is developed with the idea of how much time players are going to spend using or consuming that feature.    If players aren't going to spend much time looking at cups that are sitting on tables, it doesn't make sense for a developer to spend an inordinate amount of time working on those cups.  If players aren't expected to spend more than 5% of their time in dungeons, it doesn't make sense for a developer to spend more than 5% of their time working on the dungeons.

     

    If the dungeons were actually important, there would have been topics cropping up on MMORPG.com before now.  There haven't.  It's not that important.  It somehow skipped the notice of everyone else on the planet too, until just now. 

     

    An objective look would be seeing how dungeons affect the rest of the game, how important they are to the rest of the game.  Nobody is answering the question about how much time is spent in the copy/paste dungeons, and nobody is answering whether or not those copy/paste dungeons contain required or even important content.  Like you, they are only saying "Dungeons are important, just because."

     

    Nobody is saying the dungeon design has depth.  Not that I can see anyway.  Nobody has said they are an intricate adventure either.  They aren't supposed to be.  Nobody expects an appetizer to weigh four pounds and take four hours to eat.  Appetizers are supposed to be fast and tasty.  ESO's dungeons are obviously fast.  Maybe they're tasty.  I don't know.  I do know that nobody who is complaining about them has bothered to answer what purpose they are supposed to serve in ESO.  Are they appetizers or the main course?

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • CoffeeBreakCoffeeBreak Mechanicsburg, PAPosts: 236Member

  • GreyPawnGreyPawn Community Manager, SWG Manchester, NHPosts: 13Member

    Yes, it's the same "Joe Pishgar", aka GreyPawn, former SWG CM that wrote that review.  Hi guys!  It's been a while. :P

    (Note to moderator, could you adjust my title to something more appropriate, or remove the previous designation?)

    Had to chime in on a few items here:

    Firstly:

    "That's because he was paid by the competition for the negative review silly!"

    Oh man, that would be awesome.  Do companies pay for negative reviews of their competitors?  I ask because the only reviews I've seen lately of triple-A big budget titles seem to be glowing ones no matter what, and come on the tail end of a big, site-wide rebrand style advertising buy.

    As a side note, I was not paid for this review.  My capacity with Tom's Hardware is as Community Manager, not reviewer or editorial.  The review was something I did in my spare time over the weekend, not reimbursed, not paid for.  I wrote it as a labor of love because I kept seeing messages from friends, family, former guildmates and fellow gamers saying they were going to buy The Elder Scrolls Online.  The review was my selfish way of warning the people I give a damn about not to fritter away $60 in hopes of experiencing something fun that is ultimately disappointing.  If you want positive, paid-for, shiny reviews - there are plenty of them out there.

    "Delves not dungeons!"

    Get a grip, friend.  A rose by any other name is still a rose.  As mentioned in other comments here, even the game itself refers to them as dungeons in passing several times.  Because they are frikken dungeons.  Yes, there are the bigger "public group" dungeons which have a few more quests and a handful of interesting things to do, but even these are short bursts of mild entertainment that end too soon and don't constitute much of a challenge.  Excusing this level of rote copy/pasting as a gamer means you are apt to get more of it in the future.

    -JP

     

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     

    This would fall under "Opinions Don't Equal Reality".  You are welcome to your opinion, but we still haven't gotten any sort of objective look at the dungeons that actually takes into consideration the entire rest of the game.  Not in this thread anyway.

    • How much time do actual players spent in the copy/pasted dungeons as opposed to the amount of time opinionated forumites think should be spent there?
    • How much of the player's story occurs in the copy/pasted dungeons, as opposed to the amount of time opinionated forumites think should occur there?
     
    If a very little bit of time is spent in the copy/pasted dungeons, it doesn't matter.  If a lot of time is spent in dungeons, but it's not in any of the copy/pasted dungeons, it doesn't matter.
     
     
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    The part that should tip people off that this is just people jumping on a point in an argument that they think is valid, but have no idea what they're talking about is that it's been awhile since ESO released, Tom's Hardware is the first review to mention this, and this is the first time that anyone on MMORPG.com has gotten all pissy about it.  If this was an actual think, it would have been mentioned before now as an actual issue.  As opposed to say, the issue of MMORPG game mechanics directly conflicting with established Elder Scrolls game play.  Something that was mentioned and talked about before the game even released.
     

    People have been talking about dungeons since before beta. People often talked about their overly simple design. Instead of the letter "b," they would make a little ascii diagram to show what they look like.

     

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    Besides that, your idea that an objective way to look at how much quality the dungeons should have, is based on the amount of time the developers think the player should want to be there, is ridiculous. You built your entire argument on this strange idea that low quality is ok because the developers never intended for players to experience them often. Your idea lacks as much objectivity as people's opinions that they don't like their current implementation. It's completely ok for people to express their opinion about the lack of variety. You are never going to be able to invent an objective way of judging dungeons because there isn't one.

     

    Every feature in a game is developed with the idea of how much time players are going to spend using or consuming that feature.    If players aren't going to spend much time looking at cups that are sitting on tables, it doesn't make sense for a developer to spend an inordinate amount of time working on those cups.  If players aren't expected to spend more than 5% of their time in dungeons, it doesn't make sense for a developer to spend more than 5% of their time working on the dungeons.

     

    If the dungeons were actually important, there would have been topics cropping up on MMORPG.com before now.  There haven't.  It's not that important.  It somehow skipped the notice of everyone else on the planet too, until just now. 

     

    An objective look would be seeing how dungeons affect the rest of the game, how important they are to the rest of the game.  Nobody is answering the question about how much time is spent in the copy/paste dungeons, and nobody is answering whether or not those copy/paste dungeons contain required or even important content.  Like you, they are only saying "Dungeons are important, just because."

     

    Nobody is saying the dungeon design has depth.  Not that I can see anyway.  Nobody has said they are an intricate adventure either.  They aren't supposed to be.  Nobody expects an appetizer to weigh four pounds and take four hours to eat.  Appetizers are supposed to be fast and tasty.  ESO's dungeons are obviously fast.  Maybe they're tasty.  I don't know.  I do know that nobody who is complaining about them has bothered to answer what purpose they are supposed to serve in ESO.  Are they appetizers or the main course?

    First, there have been topics about them in the past. And just so you know, this isn't a topic about just the dungeons, it is a topic about a review that mentions the dungeons. Many, many articles have mentioned how short and lame the overworld dungeons are. Many, many posts. Many threads. It only, apparently, skipped your notice. The only difference here is that someone made an infographic and made a silly comment about the letter "b" and that really hit home with a lot of people.

     

    Second, I never said dungeons are important. I said that the premise for your argument is ridiculous. And it continues to be. Obviously people DID expect something better than what they offered, otherwise, people wouldn't be bitching about them all the time. Nobody is saying that the dungeons have depth - exactly right. They are saying the dungeons don't have depth and are a very weak attempt. 

     

    There is nothing wrong with someone holding that opinion. Developer intention certainly doesn't change how people feel about their attempt at open world dungeons. Your analogy is poor because it actually flies in the face of your argument about objectivity. If an appetizer/main course isn't tasty, it isn't tasty. Whether or not something is tasty is completely based on opinion. Just like whether or not these are acceptable open world dungeons is completely based on opinion.

     

    As to their purpose? They have bosses/loot and quests lead to some of them. What is the purpose of any dungeon in any game?

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