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Come on in, the water is fine...

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Comments

  • kruluxkrulux Atlanta - South, GAPosts: 229Member

    Wow - feel the love.   :)

    I do have a question for nearly everyone that responded.  Are you secretly playing ESO and liking it... or do you continue to post here in the ESO forum as some form of misguided duty to those who might otherwise try the game?  How white-knight of you, if the latter is the case.

    Or is the real game these days to troll forums and just whine about everything and everyone.. regardless of the game at topic?  I'm following several games in addition to ESO on MMORPG.com and other popular sites.  I know I see the same types of posts on every game I follow.  I see the same type of "review" articles trashing nearly everything these days.  It is a sad state when the very negative and vocal minority ruins otherwise decent games that have the potential to grow into something greater given the chance to grow.

     

     I'm not in the gaming industry, but I do work for a company with a large online presence.  I see how much work goes into making something several hundred thousand users will experience.  I can only imagine the work that goes into making a full-on AAA MMO... and then to see so many trash it and toss it aside after a few days of "play".  I know I've played some stinkers in the past - but I have the decency not to trash it, I simply quit playing and moved on if I felt it was not for me.

    I'll be glad when the "me me me" generation mentality has passed.  I sure do miss the good 'ole days when you said nothing if nothing good could be said.... /sigh  (and please don't spout nonsense about constructive criticism... most posts are just downright rude) 

    If you think posting 7000+ pages of negative comments works as to guiding how a game will be developed, please wake up and smell the rose-colored roses.  It does not work.  Tearing down a game, or the developers of the games only weakens the gaming community as a whole.  You are effectively cutting down trees to see the forest...

    And finally, only by playing the game, spending money on the game can the game improve.  Vote with your wallet if your voice is not heard.  Otherwise how about moving on and let the ones that like a game enjoy it in peace.  Novel concept these days...

     

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 fresno, CAPosts: 1,431Member Uncommon

    You can't come here and expect to talk about the Ocean. Most people here are just puddle jumpers. image

     

    On topic though, I am still in the Ocean. It is like my vacations to Hawaii. Just relaxing and having fun.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,223Member Uncommon

    The OP reminded me of this Bill Cosby monologue.

    http://youtu.be/zRySaLcNPYo?t=1m

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,951Member Uncommon
    This particular pool ain't worth the $60 +$15/mo + cash shop, all other (of the many) issues aside.
  • DkompozeDkompoze gainesville, FLPosts: 224Member Common
    Theres to many bugs in that there water
  • kruluxkrulux Atlanta - South, GAPosts: 229Member

    Oh well.. I tried. 

    Guess I should get used to playing tablet games.

     

  • stayBlindstayBlind Suwannee, GAPosts: 527Member
    Without the ability to buy max level characters and gear in the cash shop ... this game is a pass.

    Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  • IkonisIkonis Raleigh, ARPosts: 215Member Uncommon
    Ahh the good old 'If you do to Iike this game, then you must just be tired of the genre' post. Page 10 from the fan script.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,284Member Uncommon
    Lot of new to mmorpg players. 
  • kruluxkrulux Atlanta - South, GAPosts: 229Member
    Originally posted by Ikonis
    Ahh the good old 'If you do to Iike this game, then you must just be tired of the genre' post. Page 10 from the fan script.

    I agree.  That it's said often does not make it less true.

    And for the record, if you go back and read my earlier posts -- way back... I'm no ESO fanboy.  In its current state I give the game a "B-".  It could definitely be better, but it is no where near as bad as some are making it out to be.

    Same goes for SWTOR, GW2 and TSW.  The same will be said about Wildstar... and for those that try it Arche Age.

     

    My overall point is that we as gamers are burning down the houses that make up our city.  Every single MMO that has shipped in the post-WoW era has been mediocre at best.  There were a few that had potential and yet we, me included, torched em'.  Some of them rightly so.

     

    As for my real fanboi wishes... I wish they would remake Asheron's Call with a modern engine.  I'm no real fanboi of any of the second, third, fourth or upcoming fifth gen MMO's.  I'm an old school MMO'er - first gen.  I guess what I'm really saying is I don't care which game it is, I just hope the genre survives long enough to give us at least one more gem of a MMO - one that the masses can get behind.  (Also saying, that we as gamers don't have to hate just for the sake of hating... /sickofhate)

  • yaminsuxyaminsux KajangPosts: 815Member Uncommon
    I am a subscriber, and I am having fun atm. I already paid for 6 month sub.

    All I can say is, Zenimax should at least give out buddy pass.
  • ZandilZandil templestowePosts: 234Member Uncommon
    Better of having them all crying  here then in game were I would have to listen to them all the time.  

    image
  • kruluxkrulux Atlanta - South, GAPosts: 229Member

    If ESO, and to a lesser extent Wildstar, fails - then only EverQuest Next remains between us and the end to the AAA MMO as we know it.  It is likely we will not see any major MMO's for some time.  Look around, there are no major rumors of anything except from overseas and maybe Blizzard if their Titan project ever see's the light of day (I hope it does, I own individual shares of Activision Blizzard, Inc stock)

    My overall point is that we as gamers need to start playing the games they are making... instead of repeating the same rinse/repeat hype/hate circle jerks we've been partaking in since 2004.

     

    /flipside

    Given the huge success Star Citizen has had raising real money (lots), any new or otherwise non-mainstream ideas for a MMO will be built from a development funded by crowsourcing, kickstarter etc...  and a part of me, the gamer part, is OK with this.  I've been following Star Citizen for some time now.  I'm an original backer and have spent more than I care to share in support of it.  I've also given a good bit of money to Camelot Unchained... and I hope my investment pays off in both games.

    I am willing to put my money where my mouth is... would you pay $100 a month for your perfect premium MMO?  I would... and I think that would finally put and end to all the haters (at least the ones I'd have to listen too.. and probably do away with gold spammers as well..  :)

  • ohioastroohioastro Columbus, OHPosts: 439Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Horusra
    Originally posted by DMKano

    At this point the vast majority of those interested have taken a swim got out and left the beach.

    (such is the nature of sub MMOs - retention rates suck, 60%+ never go beyond the first month)

     

    Is it fun making up numbers?

    Is it fun not accepting reality?

     

    Do you work for them and have hard numbers?  Because otherwise you're blowing smoke.

  • EnglefieldEnglefield GibraltarPosts: 21Member Uncommon
    People aren't leaving the water because they hear the shouting from the beach, they leave because they've done the swimming. Besides, the shouting isn't coming from the beach, it's coming from those in the water.
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,087Member Uncommon
    After playing AA i can really see the difference  between ESO and AA water.

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  • jonas555jonas555 RobertsforsPosts: 19Member


    Well Zenimax has a history with Tamriel and millions of supporters. Many might not be playing however many are and like the game. Yes the first month had issues , however the team at Zenimax worked hard to fix a lot of issues.

    Even I was at a point of despair under the month however being I have played this history since Morrowind I support the company.

    My guess is that this game will grow over time as more and more people see what a jewel it  actually is even for those who were sceptical about "Daoc" pvp. No one who has played the earlier games can claim that questing is lacking.

    To all our haters of the game there are thousands who play the game. well gl in your search for the perfect game.

    And the free to play crowd who constantly claim it will go free to play in x amount of time. Zenimax will have so much support for a sub based game that if you want to play it well then you are going to have to open your wallet or your mom/dads wallet cause it aint gonna happen.

    Long live Teso!

     

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon

    go away with your water! you get all wet in there and stuff!

    so noob, you can't even breath when diving... i think they should fix that and don't make items neccessarry... diving is totaly p2w!

     

     

    *farts in the sand*

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • otacuotacu BolzanoPosts: 547Member

    I don't think i would go swimming.... all those people swimming have the same faces and the same trunks. And they are trying to sell me gold.. It's creepy.

    Better go back to my old beach and have fun with my old friends.

     

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon
    Water in ESO is for losing aggro.
  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    Read this man's post, i totaly agree with him and he already got 750+ upvotes.
    From ESO REDDIT, i have not created this post i just copy pasted it here as this guy summed it up perfectly how we feel at VR10 or close to it.

    Character Customisation

    Softcaps RUIN THE FUN.

    Two different DPS sorc will have same magicka regen, around 90-100.

    Stamina based classes will have the same stamina regen.

    Spell resistance? Same for everyone, around 1.6-1.7k

    There are spells that add 800 armor, 2k armor, and even 4k armor. Why? It's pointless. Softcap will also take care of them all. Why did they bother creating spells that we will never be able to take advantage of?

    I would like to see real customisation options when it comes to stats important as those, but once you re r10, it feels like the game makes you follow a specific path, it doesn't let you do whatever you want with your char.

    If I want to go over 2.1k magicka points, I 'll have to sacrifice like 400 health points for every 100mp over the softcap. (by not using hp enchantments, but mp ones) So ofc I won't do that, and I will just make my character same as all others.

    With the restrictions in the glyphs that give weapon / spell damage - they can only be used on jewels - a sorc can have up to ~120 spell damage maximum, while the softcap is ~160. What is that about...? Do people in ZOS believe that it's logical for a sorc to have 180 weapon damage (20 points over the softcap) and never be able to go close to the spell damage softcap? Did you intend to make people who want to use a bow/greatsword do that on a sorc or something? WTF is that?

    Many of us morphed skills without knowing how the game mechanics work. It was just a click back then at level 30. I was lucky enough not to do that but many of my guildies did, they morphed a spell to something not that useful, and now they can't take it back. This needs to be fixed.

    PVP

    I am a vampire sorc. I won't even start talking about bat swarm, we all know it's imbalanced. I just want to say this.. I can literally run in Cyrodil forever in mist form, with annulment and immovable on, and never die. EVER. I can just blink inside a group of 40 enemies and laugh at them trying to kill me or even damage me for more than a minute, then just blink away. A nuke of 1000 damage would do like 200 damage to me, just cus of annulment. That is without counting the mist form damage reduction. I can spam annulment and have it always on, mist form too. A 50.000 hp world boss would die faster to 40 people attacking it than I will, with my 3k HP.

    A keep can be captured without a wall / door going down. Just level up a DK to level 10 in another alliance, then use the chain pull skill to get your "ex allies" up on the walls of a keep. They will take the keep in no time, noone will even notice the keep is gone for some minutes. This is actually happening in Auriel's bow.

    If I want my character to have it's passive skills working, I have to relog every time I die in Cyrodil. It's come to a point I don't care about losing a 1v1 pvp anymore, I just want to stay alive mostly for that - not having to relog. Vampire passives (faster speed while sneaking, some more regen, damage mitigation) are not working if you die - I can live without, I can't pvp without my light armor bonuses though. Magicka reduction passives are broken after each death, making me go out of mp after nuking 2 enemies. This is probably the most frustrating issue for me of anything I am posting here.

    I have made like 800k alliance points in Cyrodil which means I pvp'd a lot. Like 40% of the players are vamps. I have seen only 4 - yeah, FOUR people using a werewolf transformation, either allies or enemies, in so many hours. I would love to see 10 werewolves casting mass fear etc in a mass pvp, maybe boost WW or something? Also, please make it possible for a magicka based char to be a WW? Anyone can be an effective vamp, why not a WW?

    The items you can buy with your alliance points SUCK. It's pointless. Spend 650k a.p. to buy an epic armor vr10 which costs like 10k gold. I can't spend my points on anything. The a.p. exclusive sets are for r1 or r6, and they are not good enough. So wtf should we do with our a.p.? I always buy siege equipment, repair kits, forward camps but I hardly spend 20% of my a.p. on those.

    PVE

    Not challenging. There is not one area that can actually challenge a group of 4 vr10s. A nightblade tank can apparently make the bosses just auto attack until they die, without using ONE aoe ability on the group or something. Killing a level 15 skeleton was harder than killing bogdan in elden hollow with a NB tank. Going invisible when the boss is on you just makes it go all lazy, and do nothing. Let's say you don't want to use this exploit and after waiting 10 minutes to find a group, you get that NB as a tank in your group. Now what? The dungeon will be the most boring thing you have ever done.

    Banished Cells? Don't get me started. All bosses are bugged. Darkshade caverns? Thanks for the purple jewels with 1 stat on - Automaton Gems or w/e their name. That, if u don't die from the previous boss and the whole dungeon resets. Fungal? Challenging, if Mephalla's Spawn (that idiotic spider) decides to actually pull a player in her cave. I wish we had 6 vet dungeons like Fungal though. That's what all veteran dungeons should be like.

    VR6-10 dungeons : So many blue jewels come with 1 bonus instead of 2 on them. I am not a dev but come on, how much time would it take you to fix it? 10 minutes? To change the stats on X item? 15? PLEASE! How much effort for the chests to give veteran rank items and not 20 level blue items?

    Anchors : I cleared every anchor in every 1-5 zone with a group of 8 rank 1-3 players. Apparently, a group of 3 imperial archers (random public dungeon enemies) is more challenging than a daedric invasion. I also solo'd a ~45 level anchor as a vr10. Three rank 10 BEES will kill you in no time though. And you better not piss off rank 10 mudcrabs / guars. They hit harder than a lower level Watcher / Harvester.

    How hard would it be to design dungeons with adjustable level of difficulty with different rewards for each? The "Wayrest Sewers" speed achievement comes after finishing the dungeon in less than 20 minutes. I have finished it in nine minutes, only to get a grand soul gem. THREE TIMES IN A ROW. Now I don't expect 2 epic drops per run, but a reward for doing it so fast would be nice. Or, even better, an option to run a hardcore version of a dungeon if you complete it in less than X minutes. That would add so much to the pve part of the game, at least for me.

    Crafting / Gear

    There are many people still using the warlock's set, at rank 10. Why? Because most set bonuses are totally useless, I don't even understand why they exist. "Pendant of the storm knight" or whatever. Part of the storm knight's set, which gives 1250 SHOCK RESISTANCE!!!! Now I am asking you, who wouldn't want that bonus? No words can descrbe how useful it can be! "X of the useless X" - when attacked with hp below 20% - GAIN 5% MAGICKA!!! This effect can only happen once every 780 minutes because it's too good to be true...!

    The sets we will be able to craft after researching 8 traits also seem useless. I would expect something 10x better than those shit bonuses for a research that takes 25 days, ZoS. Example :

    Oblivion's Foe : 3 Items - Adds 13 Magicka Recovery // 5 Items - Recover two soul gems when resurrecting a fallen ally. 60 minute cooldown. Seriously? This is an endgame set bonus?

    Eyes of Mara : 3 Items - Adds 80 Spell Resistance. (LOL) // 5 Items - Reduce the Magicka cost of ability by 3% when wielding a Restoration Staff. (Same thing as the seducer's set, but in this case you HAVE to use a resto staff.. WTF)

    There are no rank 10 food / pots. With the softcaps taking all the fun away, even 100more hp/mp points would be nice to have. Potions crit effect lasts for like 10sec. Use it, if u have some lag in Cyro or something or swap weapon - we all know how fast weapon swap can (not) be - the effect is over.

    Potions are useless @ rank 10. I was thinking that just one quickslot for all those items can be tricky, but now I see that a 300HP potion if you have 3K hp isn't really helpful. Could we please have higher quality potions? Or will this be the first MMO in which potions have no effect at all? 300 hp and 300 more over time won't do any good when a rank 10 non elite enemy can hit you for 1.5K damage.

    In many cases, a crafted glyph for rank 6-8 has exactly the same stats on it as the 8-10 one. Also, enchanters can't craft "Monumental" enchants, splendid is the last one they can craft.

    A month after launch, many crafted sets still don't give you the bonus they are supposed to. I don't care much, but for a level 40 player who spent time and maybe 50% of their gold to craft a specific set only to find out that "SURPRISE! IT'S NOT WORKING, FOOL!" , a warning on the tooltip would be nice. Something like "Not working yet" - If you can't just fix it asap.

    If you actually read all this, you must be thinking I hate the game. I don't. I love the game, I just want to make sure ZoS keep in mind that all those need to be fixed / reworked asap. There are more ofc, just posting what I think is most important for the game to remain fun.

    EDIT : I didn't expect this post to get all those upvotes / downvotes. I just want to add, I don't mean to make people quit the game just because my personal experience is this. I WON'T quit. Zenimax is a huge company, I believe they will take care of their game. They may have disappointed some of us being late to fix game breaking bugs / imbalanced skills etc, but I think ESO deserves more time. Also, as the post title says, those are my negative thoughts. I do have many positive thoughts too, I just don't think it would do the game much good if I would just praise it.

  • KickaxeKickaxe Winnipeg, MBPosts: 92Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ohioastro
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Horusra
    Originally posted by DMKano

    At this point the vast majority of those interested have taken a swim got out and left the beach.

    (such is the nature of sub MMOs - retention rates suck, 60%+ never go beyond the first month)

     

    Is it fun making up numbers?

    Is it fun not accepting reality?

     

    Do you work for them and have hard numbers?  Because otherwise you're blowing smoke.

    You guys are coming at DMKano pretty hard on this.  I find him to be one of the better posters on these forums, even if strongly critical at times.  Thus, I generally assume he has some substance to his assertions.  In this particular case I believe he is referencing a somewhat popular view that retention rates for MMORPGs are somewhere around 30% (fairly sure this is information derived from Blizzard regarding WoW).  So, DMK was being generous in his '60%+' number, if--big if, of course--you accept his assumption as anything approaching fact.  Keep in mind that he's not suggesting he has insider knowledge directly related to ESO data, but rather general data that can reasonably, though speculatively, be applied to all MMORPGs.

    Does anybody have a source for average retention numbers for MMORPGs?  I'm not having much luck finding anything terribly reputable.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon
    The waters fine, don't get discouraged OP, let the content locusts move on to the next MMO they will love, then hate after playing a month. We don't need them.
  • NecropsieNecropsie BursaPosts: 142Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scot
    The waters fine, don't get discouraged OP, let the content locusts move on to the next MMO they will love, then hate after playing a month. We don't them.

    Let's look at my signature to determine which stage we are at.

    (Hint: It is number 3.)

    Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,297Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jonas555


    Well Zenimax has a history with Tamriel and millions of supporters. Many might not be playing however many are and like the game. Yes the first month had issues , however the team at Zenimax worked hard to fix a lot of issues.

    Even I was at a point of despair under the month however being I have played this history since Morrowind I support the company.

    My guess is that this game will grow over time as more and more people see what a jewel it  actually is even for those who were sceptical about "Daoc" pvp. No one who has played the earlier games can claim that questing is lacking.

    To all our haters of the game there are thousands who play the game. well gl in your search for the perfect game.

    And the free to play crowd who constantly claim it will go free to play in x amount of time. Zenimax will have so much support for a sub based game that if you want to play it well then you are going to have to open your wallet or your mom/dads wallet cause it aint gonna happen.

    Long live Teso!

     

    Actually, Zenimax does not have any history with Tamriel, this is their first game using the Elder Scrolls IP. Your just confusing them with Bethesda, which for the record, Bethesda have always said they would never make an MMO based on the Elder Scrolls, they will however continue to make single player games using the Elder Scrolls IP, which is probably just as well. Bethesda did not have a hand in the designing of ESO, although they are credited as being the publisher, which in all probability is only because the IP is theirs.

    Might help to realise this is also one of the reasons why Zenimax has not managed to gain favour with the Elder Scrolls community. And has increasingly found disfavour with the online community as a whole, particularly when you throw in their recent debacle involving the OR. Zenimax is swiftly becoming one of the 'hated' companies, whether that will have an impact on ESO also remains to be seen, it may well be the last nail when all is said and done.image

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