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(ESO) Paypal Denies Reimbursement.

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Comments

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Algo Star SystemPosts: 651Member Uncommon

    "While they say this, it isn't true. They may try to fight you and force you to get a manager on the phone (in progress). I have succesfully recieved total reimbursement for a digital copy of another game  because I could pinpoint the issue to their software, not my hardware."

     

    You are correct, you may make a serious funk as a customer about receiving a refund on disputed claims, and POSSIBLY get a refund. In general if you go through the normal chains your claim will be denied.

     

    Also note, if you repeatedly have dispute claims on your account, you get red flagged with Paypal and you will meet with more resistance because they will view you as an abuser (even if you aren't).

     

    As a gamer who deals with MMORPGs and knows how developers release unfinished shit product without any recourse it would be in your best interest to use a debit or credit card rather than fight with PayPal and ignoramus forum fanboys.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 628Member Uncommon
    How many hours did you spend playing the game?
  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Llandrindod WellsPosts: 364Member


    Originally posted by trancefate
    Originally posted by cheyane Why did you not ask for a refund right from the start from Zenimax ? Why wait and try to get it from Paypal ? You should have done it within the first week. How long did you wait ? You played the full 30 days right then you deserve not getting the money.
    To respond to you and the other completely incorrect and ignorant comments here, I tried VERY hard to make this game work. Tried to the point of giving them multiple weeks to fix known issues 100% halting progress, to no avail.

     

    For the record, I did ask for a refund well before the grace period was over, 21 days in to be exact.

     

    Here is the copy pasta.

     

    "The product was significantly not as described. Ignoring significant ammounts of downtime creating large times of complete unplayability, there were issues that completely precluded participating in the content I paid for. Every single attempt at a forray into cyrrodil has ended in chain crashes, I had to re-install three times and this problem still persists. Frequent duping has destroyed the game economy, three well known ones within a week. Guild bank and mail functionality have been down for a significant ammount of time. My character was stuck for greater than two weeks time unable to progress because of a known and unfixed issue in the main story quest. Bots run rampant and can be seen EVERYWHERE. Gold spammers fill my in game mail and chat boxes continuously. But more than anything: I was more often than not UNABLE to play your game or progress to the content I paid for due to bugs and instability."

     

    Keep in mind, I paid $80 for a workable, long term, MMORPG. Not for a single player RPG with broken PVP, no player interaction, broken mail, broken bank, bots, multiple economy destroying gold/item dupes that have been intentionally left in since beta, and bugs that literally halt progression through 4/5 (all veteran zones, cyrrodil, and eventually craglorn) of the game.

     

    SO yeah, I guess i'd take an 80% reimbursement since I was able to complete about 20% of the content I paid for....

     

     

     

    TLDR: I'm not asking for a refund because I didn't like the game; quite contrarily the game was great, their release and backend were so garbage they completely denied service and playability to many customers, myself included.

     


    Unfortunately you failed to consider what would class as "a reasonable period of time" when asking for your refund.

    In the UK, for example, Statutory Rights enable me to ask for a refund and get it within a reasonable period of time after the purchase (7-14 days). If I waited 21 days and then asked for the refund, I would get told to do one...

    If for those 21 days you could not play the game at all then you could possibly puppy dog up to Zenimax directly. If however you did in fact play a large chunk of the game, multiple levels across multiple hours of game time, you aren't going to get a refund as you've experienced a majority of the product without error.

  • ZegalothZegaloth Gladstone, ORPosts: 54Member
    Originally posted by onlinenow25
    Originally posted by Azzras
    Originally posted by onlinenow25
    Originally posted by Darkcrystal

    Awesome news glad to see this!!!

     

    To many gamers trying to take advantage of Paypal... ESO is playable... They had the same issues as every other MMO at release, they have the right to fix it, if they don't they you deserve  your money back, they did..The game is fixed and everyone is playing... I know this because I could not play due to crashing at login and a few others. They also gave us our time back ..

    So Paypal should not give any of you your money back!!!

    You have never eaten at a restaurant and sent back food or gotten your money back because the food was terrible after you already tasted/tried it?

     

    Same concept.

     

    There is a more loss to a restaurant from you even touching the food because that product is now lost compared to someone disliking a game and getting their money back.  Zenimax or any company at that has no actual loss of product that needs to be paid for through an increase of sales.

     

     

    Not many restaurants will give you a full refund if you ate everything except the last bite.  @Zegolath as well

     

    And the player didn't "eat everything except the last bite"

     

    Is he VR10?  Does he have an almost fully geared character?  Does he have almost every skyshard in game?  That would be a proper analogy to "eat everything except the last bite"

     

    Even at level 50, its not even half way through the game.

    Do you not understand that he has had the game for well over a month? Thats like going to a resturant, eating half of your meal and getting it to go, then waiting 30 days to eat it, only to return it to the resturant to say it tasted bad and you want a refund, only in this case the game has been getting better with all of the bug fixes.

  • trancefatetrancefate zionsville, INPosts: 134Member
    Originally posted by FlyByKnight

    "While they say this, it isn't true. They may try to fight you and force you to get a manager on the phone (in progress). I have succesfully recieved total reimbursement for a digital copy of another game  because I could pinpoint the issue to their software, not my hardware."

     

    You are correct, you may make a serious funk as a customer about receiving a refund on disputed claims, and POSSIBLY get a refund. In general if you go through the normal chains your claim will be denied.

     

    Also note, if you repeatedly have dispute claims on your account, you get red flagged with Paypal and you will meet with more resistance because they will view you as an abuser (even if you aren't).

     

    As a gamer who deals with MMORPGs and knows how developers release unfinished shit product without any recourse it would be in your best interest to use a debit or credit card rather than fight with PayPal and ignoramus forum fanboys.

    100% true.

     

    UPDATE: After speaking with PayPal management, I have been informed that if you request your tied bank account to do a chargeback on this, PayPal -- WILL NOT -- argue with your bank, and Zenimax has already greenlighted any chargebacks without contest.

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Azzras

    So you played your 30 day time and after asked for a refund?

    Shame on you.

    Yep.   What's worse is they come here and expect sympathy.    You paid for the game, played it for the 30 days free and expect a refund, sorry...but Zenimax owes you nothing and Pay Pal was right for turning you down.   

    image
  • TorcipTorcip Sterling Heights, MIPosts: 669Member

    Glad to see paypal might be stopping people from abusing chargebacks. The sheer amount of times I see people telling others to go straight for a charge back before any other course of action is absolutely ridiculous. You should always go to the company first and give them reasons other than your game sucks because hate to tell you but that is not a reason to get a refund and never will be.

    If Zenimax has said that they are giving out refunds no questions asked then why the hell would you go over their head and do a charge back, just ask Zenimax for a refund. This makes no sense to me.

    And btw, in case you guys don't know doing  multiple charge backs can get you in trouble and enough of them could even prevent you from getting another card in the future without jumping through hoops. Charge backs also cause the company to lose a lot more than just what you paid.

     

  • naaminaami Dallas, TXPosts: 163Member Common
    I see you lost $80. Buying the more expensive edition of a game you aren't 100% sure about is never a good idea. Next time be more careful with your money.
  • General-ZodGeneral-Zod Zod, CAPosts: 743Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by naami
    I see you lost $80. Buying the more expensive edition of a game you aren't 100% sure about is never a good idea. Next time be more careful with your money.

    This

    image
  • sacredcow4sacredcow4 Amherst, OHPosts: 193Member

    Paypal gave me my full refund from ESO, but I contacted zenimax first and posted our conversation when they stopped responding after finally agreeing to refund me.

    Were you banned before requesting refund?

    Heaven and Hell is debatable - Karma is not.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by trancefate
    Originally posted by cheyane
    Why did you not ask for a refund right from the start from Zenimax ? Why wait and try to get it from Paypal ? You should have done it within the first week. How long did you wait ? You played the full 30 days right then you deserve not getting the money.

    To respond to you and the other completely incorrect and ignorant comments here, I tried VERY hard to make this game work. Tried to the point of giving them multiple weeks to fix known issues 100% halting progress, to no avail.

     

    For the record, I did ask for a refund well before the grace period was over, 21 days in to be exact.

     

    Here is the copy pasta.

     

    "The product was significantly not as described.

    I personaly feel it is the game as described, yes it has some issue's some seem to experiance more then others (incl me) I have run into a few issue's, but keep in mind I've been playing this genre for many years so I alway's give a newly released game time to mature, same goes with it's community it will settle down to the more dedicated players. People are just far to impatience.

    Ignoring significant ammounts of downtime creating large times of complete unplayability, there were issues that completely precluded participating in the content I paid for. Every single attempt at a forray into cyrrodil has ended in chain crashes, I had to re-install three times and this problem still persists. Frequent duping has destroyed the game economy, three well known ones within a week. Guild bank and mail functionality have been down for a significant ammount of time. My character was stuck for greater than two weeks time unable to progress because of a known and unfixed issue in the main story quest. Bots run rampant and can be seen EVERYWHERE. Gold spammers fill my in game mail and chat boxes continuously. But more than anything: I was more often than not UNABLE to play your game or progress to the content I paid for due to bugs and instability."

    Regardless I have been effected with the downtime's quite allot since I need to plan my gametime and don't have much of it. But to me it's a good sign, they are on top of known issue's, some will be fixed, some will not, new might become known....it's the story of any MMO/RPG both succesfull or slightly succesfull or even unsuccesfull games.

    Not really sure why you re-installed the game 3 times, or was it really  just because the game crashed??

    Goldspammers are a plaque but most of the time a simple /ignore will do th trick. I sure do find it anoying F1 every gold spam mail but I will do so everytime I get one. The ignore in chat doesn't really take much time

    Keep in mind, I paid $80 for a workable, long term, MMORPG. Not for a single player RPG with broken PVP, no player interaction, broken mail, broken bank, bots, multiple economy destroying gold/item dupes that have been intentionally left in since beta, and bugs that literally halt progression through 4/5 (all veteran zones, cyrrodil, and eventually craglorn) of the game.

    So glad I am  experianced MMORPG player and already knew not to pursuit reaching VR  or cap lvl with a newly released game. Doesn't make it okay these issue's keep people from playing "their" way. But like I said anyone with some experiance in this genre should have known better.... As for the economy destroyed, you know that's not true, did it get stratched, sure.

    Also sure long before I reach VR I am sure most issue's are fixed. Since I have run into just some very minor issue's so far.

    SO yeah, I guess i'd take an 80% reimbursement since I was able to complete about 20% of the content I paid for....

     Why the rush?

     

     

    TLDR: I'm not asking for a refund because I didn't like the game; quite contrarily the game was great, their release and backend were so garbage they completely denied service and playability to many customers, myself included.

     

     

  • trancefatetrancefate zionsville, INPosts: 134Member
    Originally posted by naami
    I see you lost $80. Buying the more expensive edition of a game you aren't 100% sure about is never a good idea. Next time be more careful with your money.

    1) I'll get my $80 back, I promise you that.

    2) I almost always buy the collectors edition, this is the first time I've ever asked for a refund on one.

     

     

    I bought the expensive steak at dinner, if they burned I would return it just the same as the cheap steak.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 628Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by trancefate
    Originally posted by naami
    I see you lost $80. Buying the more expensive edition of a game you aren't 100% sure about is never a good idea. Next time be more careful with your money.

    I bought the expensive steak at dinner, if they burned I would return it just the same as the cheap steak.

    How many bites would you take first?

  • trancefatetrancefate zionsville, INPosts: 134Member
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by trancefate
    Originally posted by naami
    I see you lost $80. Buying the more expensive edition of a game you aren't 100% sure about is never a good idea. Next time be more careful with your money.

    I bought the expensive steak at dinner, if they burned I would return it just the same as the cheap steak.

    How many bites would you take first?

     

    Probably two or three, if the middle wasn't ruined I'd just eat it. Unfortunately with ESO it was 2-3 bites of good steak, and the rest was frozen solid....

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 628Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by trancefate
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by trancefate
    Originally posted by naami
    I see you lost $80. Buying the more expensive edition of a game you aren't 100% sure about is never a good idea. Next time be more careful with your money.

    I bought the expensive steak at dinner, if they burned I would return it just the same as the cheap steak.

    How many bites would you take first?

     

    Probably two or three, if the middle wasn't ruined I'd just eat it. Unfortunately with ESO it was 2-3 bites of good steak, and the rest was frozen solid....

     

    How much time did you spend playing it?

  • onlinenow25onlinenow25 San Diego, CAPosts: 275Member
    Originally posted by Zegaloth
    Originally posted by onlinenow25
    Originally posted by Azzras
    Originally posted by onlinenow25
    Originally posted by Darkcrystal

    Awesome news glad to see this!!!

     

    To many gamers trying to take advantage of Paypal... ESO is playable... They had the same issues as every other MMO at release, they have the right to fix it, if they don't they you deserve  your money back, they did..The game is fixed and everyone is playing... I know this because I could not play due to crashing at login and a few others. They also gave us our time back ..

    So Paypal should not give any of you your money back!!!

    You have never eaten at a restaurant and sent back food or gotten your money back because the food was terrible after you already tasted/tried it?

     

    Same concept.

     

    There is a more loss to a restaurant from you even touching the food because that product is now lost compared to someone disliking a game and getting their money back.  Zenimax or any company at that has no actual loss of product that needs to be paid for through an increase of sales.

     

     

    Not many restaurants will give you a full refund if you ate everything except the last bite.  @Zegolath as well

     

    And the player didn't "eat everything except the last bite"

     

    Is he VR10?  Does he have an almost fully geared character?  Does he have almost every skyshard in game?  That would be a proper analogy to "eat everything except the last bite"

     

    Even at level 50, its not even half way through the game.

    Do you not understand that he has had the game for well over a month? Thats like going to a resturant, eating half of your meal and getting it to go, then waiting 30 days to eat it, only to return it to the resturant to say it tasted bad and you want a refund, only in this case the game has been getting better with all of the bug fixes.

    Actually due to food having a spoil time and a video game having no way to actually spoil that analogy fails miserably.

     

    Food is either good right away or not.  A video game on the other hand can be patched and fixed up over time.  To wait a bit for a refund because a company claims they are going to fix the issues is not so far fetched.  When they actually don't fix anything with a recent patch well, its time for a refund.

     

     

  • olepiolepi Austin, TXPosts: 1,154Member Uncommon

    Simple rules:

    - never pre-purchase anything

    - never purchase a game that hasn't been officially released

    - never purchase a game until you have tried it, or read enough reviews after it has been released

    - never ask for a refund.

    ------------
    RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  • onlinenow25onlinenow25 San Diego, CAPosts: 275Member
    Originally posted by olepi

    Simple rules:

    - never pre-purchase anything

    - never purchase a game that hasn't been officially released

    - never purchase a game until you have tried it, or read enough reviews after it has been released

    - never ask for a refund.

    Why are video games and movies the ONLY form of entertainment where consumers willingly don't ask for their money back? 

    Yet many wonder why video games in their eyes have gotten worse, or companies have increasingly tried to nickle and dime their consumers, well I have an answer.

     

    You throw your money away at them and never ask for a refund when it dosn't work, or is not as advertised.  Whats the incentive to care about your product if there is no fear of losing money from refunds.

     

    Can't wait for digital consumer laws that protects the consumer to start being formed.  So sick of this anti-consumer mind set.

  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    I think the game is utter boring crap but people expecting or getting refunds that played for over 100+ hours or 30 days are just abusing the refund policy.

    How to post links.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  • naaminaami Dallas, TXPosts: 163Member Common
    Originally posted by onlinenow25

    Actually due to food having a spoil time and a video game having no way to actually spoil that analogy fails miserably.

     

    Food is either good right away or not.  A video game on the other hand can be patched and fixed up over time.  To wait a bit for a refund because a company claims they are going to fix the issues is not so far fetched.  When they actually don't fix anything with a recent patch well, its time for a refund.

     

     

    Maybe ESO is like a finely aged cheese.

  • olepiolepi Austin, TXPosts: 1,154Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by onlinenow25
    Originally posted by olepi

    Simple rules:

    - never pre-purchase anything

    - never purchase a game that hasn't been officially released

    - never purchase a game until you have tried it, or read enough reviews after it has been released

    - never ask for a refund.

    Why are video games and movies the ONLY form of entertainment where consumers willingly don't ask for their money back? 

    Yet many wonder why video games in their eyes have gotten worse, or companies have increasingly tried to nickle and dime their consumers, well I have an answer.

     

    You throw your money away at them and never ask for a refund when it dosn't work, or is not as advertised.  Whats the incentive to care about your product if there is no fear of losing money from refunds.

     

    Can't wait for digital consumer laws that protects the consumer to start being formed.  So sick of this anti-consumer mind set.

    You will never need to ask for a refund if you follow those simple rules. You could have read the reviews: they are full of the fact that bots are rampant, quests are broken, grouping is hard, etc, etc. Or you could have played in the beta; one hour into the beta for SWTOR I knew I didn't want the game.

    But if you pre-purchase, or purchase before trying it or reading the reviews, then you could be surprised at what you bought, but it's your own fault. Test drive the car first, never buy first.

    ------------
    RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 franklin, NYPosts: 612Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by trancefate

    For anyone who was wondering, for the first time ever I have had a paypal dispute decided in favor of the seller. This is unprecedented, because as far as "product missing parts or not as advertised" claims go, this is by far the most blatantly broken piece of trash I have purchased. Sadly, Zenimax has lobbied paypal, and doesn't even respond to their emails anymore, giving paypal sole deliberation.

     

    Dear ---- -----,

    We have concluded our investigation into this case. Unfortunately, at this
    time we are unable to decide this claim in your favor.


    -----------------------------------
    Transaction Details
    -----------------------------------


    Seller's Name: Zenimax Online Studios
    Seller's Email: paypalNA@zenimaxonline.com
    Seller's Transaction ID: 5TM39234GJ355510N

    Transaction Date: Mar 20, 2014
    Transaction Amount: -$79.99 USD
    Invoice ID: 655000191299
    Your Transaction ID: 2SB63073J49934307
    Case Number: PP-003-106-386-865

    Buyer's Transaction ID: 2SB63073J49934307

    Sincerely,
    PayPal

    So you play for 15 days, and are just like well i dont like this game now i should get a refund? I am glad they didnt give you one. You dont get to play a free 15 days of ESO, and then expect a refund. By may 20th there was more then enough information and reviews on this game for you to make a logical choice. Just because you failed at that, doesnt mean they should give you a refund. 

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,871Member Uncommon


    Unentitled claim was denied. That's how it should be done.

  • trancefatetrancefate zionsville, INPosts: 134Member

    Originally posted by olepi

    Originally posted by onlinenow25
    Originally posted by olepi

    Simple rules:

    - never pre-purchase anything

    - never purchase a game that hasn't been officially released

    - never purchase a game until you have tried it, or read enough reviews after it has been released

    - never ask for a refund.

    Why are video games and movies the ONLY form of entertainment where consumers willingly don't ask for their money back? 

    Yet many wonder why video games in their eyes have gotten worse, or companies have increasingly tried to nickle and dime their consumers, well I have an answer.

     

    You throw your money away at them and never ask for a refund when it dosn't work, or is not as advertised.  Whats the incentive to care about your product if there is no fear of losing money from refunds.

     

    Can't wait for digital consumer laws that protects the consumer to start being formed.  So sick of this anti-consumer mind set.

    You will never need to ask for a refund if you follow those simple rules. You could have read the reviews: they are full of the fact that bots are rampant, quests are broken, grouping is hard, etc, etc. Or you could have played in the beta; one hour into the beta for SWTOR I knew I didn't want the game.

    But if you pre-purchase, or purchase before trying it or reading the reviews, then you could be surprised at what you bought, but it's your own fault. Test drive the car first, never buy first.

    Flawed logic, if I buy a car without test-driving it, that still doesn't get the dealer off the hook when my brakes don't work.

    Originally posted by makasouleater69

    Originally posted by trancefate

    For anyone who was wondering, for the first time ever I have had a paypal dispute decided in favor of the seller. This is unprecedented, because as far as "product missing parts or not as advertised" claims go, this is by far the most blatantly broken piece of trash I have purchased. Sadly, Zenimax has lobbied paypal, and doesn't even respond to their emails anymore, giving paypal sole deliberation.

     

    Dear ---- -----,

    We have concluded our investigation into this case. Unfortunately, at this
    time we are unable to decide this claim in your favor.


    -----------------------------------
    Transaction Details
    -----------------------------------


    Seller's Name: Zenimax Online Studios
    Seller's Email: paypalNA@zenimaxonline.com
    Seller's Transaction ID: 5TM39234GJ355510N

    Transaction Date: Mar 20, 2014
    Transaction Amount: -$79.99 USD
    Invoice ID: 655000191299
    Your Transaction ID: 2SB63073J49934307
    Case Number: PP-003-106-386-865

    Buyer's Transaction ID: 2SB63073J49934307

    Sincerely,
    PayPal

    So you play for 15 days, and are just like well i dont like this game now i should get a refund? I am glad they didnt give you one. You dont get to play a free 15 days of ESO, and then expect a refund. By may 20th there was more then enough information and reviews on this game for you to make a logical choice. Just because you failed at that, doesnt mean they should give you a refund. 

    Once again, flawed logic, Maybe the broken content didn't start until 15 days in? SURPRISE! that's like saying "there wasn't a cockroack in the other parts of your burrito, why are you complaining NOW?"

     

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,871Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by onlinenow25

    Because of course it has never happened to you, and you have NEVER needed to get a refund for a faulty product.  If you can't imagine it ever happening to you, must mean its the other persons fault right?

    The thing is, it swing both ways.

    If others can play the game and do not ask for a refund due supposed unplayability and game breaking bugs, how come this particular guy cannot...?

    And in that case, the refund will be rightfully denied.

This discussion has been closed.