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ESO Review by Tom's Hardware

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Comments

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
    [mod edit]

    Pretty much. Tired of the negativity, if you don't enjoy it, move on, no one is stopping you and all you are doing is annoying the rest of us who love the game.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • blastermasterblastermaster Cap-aux-Meules, QCPosts: 149Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ChicagoCub
    Originally posted by cheyane

    Can you show me how one of those 30 look like. Are they simple affairs or actually complex like the ones in Everquest  or like Wailing Caverns or Maraudon in WoW. If they are rubbish small and very simple do not bother qouting that 30 figure to try and show that ESO has good dungeon design.

    There is nothing complex about them.  Same design just replace bandits with spiders, change the boss's name, and put in theme appropriate clutter and structural textures.  Takes maybe 5 or 10 mins to get through one if you're alone which is rare.  Usually its just a matter of running to the end grabbing your skyshard, getting a hit in on the boss to get the achievement and you're on your way.

    Except that, as stated by other posters, these are simple "caves", not "dungeons" (aka "instances") like "Wailing Caverns or Maraudon" in WoW.

    To be fair, they would need to talk about the real dungeons, like Spindelclutch, the Sewers,etc.. which are all unique and have their own mood,etc. 

    Now, one could argue that even these are more simple than the dungeon's of old, but that is more a trend in game design than a problem with ESO per say.

    Using this as an argument against the game is wrong in my opinion. It's even close to misinformation since people think that these are the actual group (instanced) dungeons, while it's not the case. 

     

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    [mod edit]

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • NecropsieNecropsie BursaPosts: 142Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Palazious

    I think my basement is more complex and dangerous then ESO's dungeons.

     

    Takes much longer to clear as well...

    It was a bad day for me and you made me laugh very hard sir, thank you :)

    Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ChicagoCub

    There is nothing complex about them.  Same design just replace bandits with spiders, change the boss's name, and put in theme appropriate clutter and structural textures.  Takes maybe 5 or 10 mins to get through one if you're alone which is rare.  Usually its just a matter of running to the end grabbing your skyshard, getting a hit in on the boss to get the achievement and you're on your way.

    Yeh I'm kind of wondering which takes the least amount effort when it comes to dealing with  those "solo" (they should be named "lol") dungeons:  the bot programmer, the player grabbing his shard & getting a tap on the boss, or the dungeon designer who swapped out textures and mobs from dungeon A to dungeon B?  I think it's close between the player and dungeon designer.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • MalaboogaMalabooga aadadaPosts: 1,542Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by blastermaster
    Originally posted by ChicagoCub
    Originally posted by cheyane

    Can you show me how one of those 30 look like. Are they simple affairs or actually complex like the ones in Everquest  or like Wailing Caverns or Maraudon in WoW. If they are rubbish small and very simple do not bother qouting that 30 figure to try and show that ESO has good dungeon design.

    There is nothing complex about them.  Same design just replace bandits with spiders, change the boss's name, and put in theme appropriate clutter and structural textures.  Takes maybe 5 or 10 mins to get through one if you're alone which is rare.  Usually its just a matter of running to the end grabbing your skyshard, getting a hit in on the boss to get the achievement and you're on your way.

    Except that, as stated by other posters, these are simple "caves", not "dungeons" (aka "instances") like "Wailing Caverns or Maraudon" in WoW.

    To be fair, they would need to talk about the real dungeons, like Spindelclutch, the Sewers,etc.. which are all unique and have their own mood,etc. 

    Now, one could argue that even these are more simple than the dungeon's of old, but that is more a trend in game design than a problem with ESO per say.

    Using this as an argument against the game is wrong in my opinion. It's even close to misinformation since people think that these are the actual group (instanced) dungeons, while it's not the case. 

     

    Except the claim is that game launched with "30 dungeons with 100 variations"

    If you count every single cave in pretty much any MMO, proclaim it a "dungeon"  you would count at least that if not many many more.

    This copy/paste trend has gone way too far. At least older games didnt do it THAT much and tried (and managed) to hide it a lot better.

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by bcbully

    People complaining about a game launching with 30 unique dungeons and 100 variations... 

     

    This.

     

    Oh, and I believe these are primarily copied to each of the 3 factions, correct? So it's not a duplicate within your own faction. Not making excuses, but just sort of a who cares topic. Will only affect people who roll a toon on each faction and those people probably don't generally care about any aspect of the game other than *slash**slash**slash* Next! 

    The problem here is the VR ranks. I dont think VR ranks were originally ment to work like they do now. It was a late afterthought to bring the whole world map to every single character, and to increase leveling times by making you go through the enemy factions quests too, and I hate that decision.

     

    I'm afraid it's the fault of the whiners who said the game sucks because you cant see 100% of the game unless you roll and alt, so they thought "hey, lets make everyone go 100% of the map, we can double or triple the leveling time too!" which probably sounded like an awesome decision among the dev team. At the very least it should be optional and there should be optional content or ways to level the VR ranks, the last thing I want to do is to go level on my enemy faction areas...

  • BetaBlockaBetaBlocka WrexhamPosts: 222Member
    Another review from a mainstream, well respected website rolls in with a poor review...

    Let me guess...Toms Hardware cannot be counted as a credible review source amirite?
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,289Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BetaBlocka
    Another review from a mainstream, well respected website rolls in with a poor review...

    Let me guess...Toms Hardware cannot be counted as a credible review source amirite?

    Totally correct.

    For some reason, detailed arguments about why something is bad, is just people hating on something, but saying something is good without any real reason or argument to support it, is perfectly fine. image

  • donjndonjn Valencia, CAPosts: 769Member Uncommon

    The dungeon complaint while funny, is odd.

    Speaking from a roleplay angle a lot of these duplicates are structures, built by ancient races. If they built a temple or underground structure, and it worked, it would make sense to duplicate it.

     

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon

    While he do have some points (like the repeating of dungeons, I for one rather have 10 huge well made dungeons then 74 small repeated) he did only play 20 levels and then review a MMO so the review is really only good for the noob experience.

    And yes, 20 levels of any MMO ain't enough for a fair review, we seen that many times in the past (remember the 20 level AoC reviews, anyone?). He also writes that the game never gets better ut with a limited noob experience, how does he know?

    I read it when it was posted a week ago BTW and I am too lazy to see if something have been added since. :)

  • ManasongManasong CuritibaPosts: 208Member
    Originally posted by BetaBlocka
    Another review from a mainstream, well respected website rolls in with a poor review...

    Let me guess...Toms Hardware cannot be counted as a credible review source amirite?

    It's just hard to take a review seriously when people are obviously angry at the game, they might be letting their emotions cloud their judgement. Proper reviews should be done neutrally, not pick a side and bash bash or close your eyes and say it's butterflies.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 627Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Manasong
    Originally posted by BetaBlocka
    Another review from a mainstream, well respected website rolls in with a poor review...

    Let me guess...Toms Hardware cannot be counted as a credible review source amirite?

    It's just hard to take review seriously when people are obviously angry at the game, they might be letting their emotions cloud their judgement.

     

    How do you know the emotional state the author was in when he was writing the review? 

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by donjn

    The dungeon complaint while funny, is odd.

    Speaking from a roleplay angle a lot of these duplicates are structures, built by ancient races. If they built a temple or underground structure, and it worked, it would make sense to duplicate it.

    Only if it was build in the late 1960s-early 1970s.

    Really, historical buildings rarely work like that except housing for poor people. Go out and check some churches from the same period of time. While the style is similar and certain things are the same the architects always added their own ideas to the buildings.

    One would assume that this isn't originally home for poor people and that they aren't built in the exact same time period all of them so, no it doesn't make sense.

    Unless Ikea sold dungeon kits at the time (just add mobs and assemble).

  • PalaziousPalazious Lewiston, IDPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by Loke666

    While he do have some points (like the repeating of dungeons, I for one rather have 10 huge well made dungeons then 74 small repeated) he did only play 20 levels and then review a MMO so the review is really only good for the noob experience.

    And yes, 20 levels of any MMO ain't enough for a fair review, we seen that many times in the past (remember the 20 level AoC reviews, anyone?). He also writes that the game never gets better ut with a limited noob experience, how does he know?

    I read it when it was posted a week ago BTW and I am too lazy to see if something have been added since. :)

    IMO, with AoC the pre 20 levels were drastically different then the post 20 levels.

     

    In ESO (I'm in my post 50 playing levels) there really isn't anything different post 20. 

     

     

    Do you know of anything much different post 20 versus pre 20 in ESO?

    Palazious <The Vindicators> Darkfall
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  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXPosts: 1,205Member
    Originally posted by BetaBlocka
    Another review from a mainstream, well respected website rolls in with a poor review...

    Let me guess...Toms Hardware cannot be counted as a credible review source amirite?

    Is it going to change the opinion of those that like the game? --> No

    Is it going to make the people who don't like the game, like it less? --> No

    Is it going to change the mind of your average gamer that doesn't read reviews or know about the web site? --> No

    Is it going to influence the small segment of gamers on the fence that do read game reviews and use them to base their decision to buy a game? --> Yes. But... why all the glee over a negative review when you have already made up your mind about the game?

     

     

     

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by Manasong

    It's just hard to take review seriously when people are obviously angry at the game, they might be letting their emotions cloud their judgement.

    How do you know the emotional state the author was in when he was writing the review? 

    He didn't sound that happy, give Manasong that.... My impression was that the author was a TES fan that got rather upset because he loved TES and dislike ESO.

  • Jadedangel1Jadedangel1 Newark, NJPosts: 184Member
    Originally posted by Manasong
    Originally posted by BetaBlocka
    Another review from a mainstream, well respected website rolls in with a poor review...

    Let me guess...Toms Hardware cannot be counted as a credible review source amirite?

    It's just hard to take a review seriously when people are obviously angry at the game, they might be letting their emotions cloud their judgement. Proper reviews should be done neutrally, not pick a side and bash bash or close your eyes and say it's butterflies.

    Not that it mattrs either way...But maybe his anger at the game came from playing it? In which his review is definitely valid in that if it was good, fun to play for him, and well executed there would be no anger generated from it in the first place.

  • ThorqemadaThorqemada BerlinPosts: 1,277Member Uncommon

    I thought i would get at least 3 months of gameplay out of it but i can not force me to login.
    Grouping is pointless - Combat is pretty boring (to easy or impossible) - the Pet Class is the weakest least enjoyable i have ever seen, you can do nothing with them but a 1-time choice which advanced version you want - questing is a cycle of meh tasks with a few slightly interesting NPCs and many more meh experiences - the world is a series of stages you leave behind as you Level out of its zones - grouping is confusing - treasure maps be ok - armor is bland - Character customizations is ok - Overall the MEH is so huge i have 70 days of playtime and i can not convince myself to login into a 30 Player guild bcs...

    Its more bland meh i ever expected.

    Sadly this will kill the fundamentally good concepts that be hidden in this mess...

    Well meant but not well made.

    "Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

    MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
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  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,289Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loke666

    While he do have some points (like the repeating of dungeons, I for one rather have 10 huge well made dungeons then 74 small repeated) he did only play 20 levels and then review a MMO so the review is really only good for the noob experience.

    And yes, 20 levels of any MMO ain't enough for a fair review, we seen that many times in the past (remember the 20 level AoC reviews, anyone?). He also writes that the game never gets better ut with a limited noob experience, how does he know?

    I read it when it was posted a week ago BTW and I am too lazy to see if something have been added since. :)

    If a game isn't fun by level 20 out of 50, then at what point does it get fun, 30, 40, 45.... 50 even? The reviewer made a lot of points, and a lot of sense, and the 'atypical' response of, someone either not playing it right, or your only xx level so you don't have a clue, is just an excuse, not a reasoned argument that even tries to contradict the points raised in the review. And i rather think that its because of wishful thinking, because at heart you know the guy is right in what he's saying. Maybe one day ESO will be the game that deserves that kind of optimistic faith, but the problem is, right here, right now, it isn't. image

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Palazious
    Originally posted by Loke666

    While he do have some points (like the repeating of dungeons, I for one rather have 10 huge well made dungeons then 74 small repeated) he did only play 20 levels and then review a MMO so the review is really only good for the noob experience.

    And yes, 20 levels of any MMO ain't enough for a fair review, we seen that many times in the past (remember the 20 level AoC reviews, anyone?). He also writes that the game never gets better ut with a limited noob experience, how does he know?

    I read it when it was posted a week ago BTW and I am too lazy to see if something have been added since. :)

    IMO, with AoC the pre 20 levels were drastically different then the post 20 levels.

    In ESO (I'm in my post 50 playing levels) there really isn't anything different post 20. 

    Do you know of anything much different post 20 versus pre 20 in ESO?

    That is beside the point, we had this discussion many times on this forum and I think at least close to everyone agree that you should level up to at least 60% of max level to write a "review" or it is just a "preview".

    We still get what the reviewer think about the game and some of the bad stuff but he should have at least played to lvl30 minimum.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Originally posted by Soki123
    Well, can t argue here. Worst MMO (if you want to call it that) in years. It feels so amateur, I can t really call it anything other then that.

     

    Just like SWTOR?

    Which after the switch to F2P, like so many others, now makes profits?

    In the end many will look back and believe it was all planned out by ZOS.

     

    (Don't play either. Do study economics.)

    At least SWTOR had content that was fun!

    At least SWTOR had Dungeons (instances / operations) that weren't copy/pasted from a single map and were vast, interesting and challenging! Overall fun to do.

    SWTOR at launch was actually much more an MMO than ESO is and ever will be. Sadly. :(

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Loke666

    While he do have some points (like the repeating of dungeons, I for one rather have 10 huge well made dungeons then 74 small repeated) he did only play 20 levels and then review a MMO so the review is really only good for the noob experience.

    And yes, 20 levels of any MMO ain't enough for a fair review, we seen that many times in the past (remember the 20 level AoC reviews, anyone?). He also writes that the game never gets better ut with a limited noob experience, how does he know?

    I read it when it was posted a week ago BTW and I am too lazy to see if something have been added since. :)

    If a game isn't fun by level 20 out of 50, then at what point does it get fun, 30, 40, 45.... 50 even? The reviewer made a lot of points, and a lot of sense, and the 'atypical' response of, someone either not playing it right, or your only xx level so you don't have a clue, is just an excuse, not a reasoned argument that even tries to contradict the points raised in the review. And i rather think that its because of wishful thinking, because at heart you know the guy is right in what he's saying. Maybe one day ESO will be the game that deserves that kind of optimistic faith, but the problem is, right here, right now, it isn't. image

    He do get paid to review it (I assume) so he could have spent a few more days at it anyways. No, he still wont think it is fun but he would have had more to write about.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Loke666

    While he do have some points (like the repeating of dungeons, I for one rather have 10 huge well made dungeons then 74 small repeated) he did only play 20 levels and then review a MMO so the review is really only good for the noob experience.

    And yes, 20 levels of any MMO ain't enough for a fair review, we seen that many times in the past (remember the 20 level AoC reviews, anyone?). He also writes that the game never gets better ut with a limited noob experience, how does he know?

    I read it when it was posted a week ago BTW and I am too lazy to see if something have been added since. :)

    If a game isn't fun by level 20 out of 50, then at what point does it get fun, 30, 40, 45.... 50 even? The reviewer made a lot of points, and a lot of sense, and the 'atypical' response of, someone either not playing it right, or your only xx level so you don't have a clue, is just an excuse, not a reasoned argument that even tries to contradict the points raised in the review. And i rather think that its because of wishful thinking, because at heart you know the guy is right in what he's saying. Maybe one day ESO will be the game that deserves that kind of optimistic faith, but the problem is, right here, right now, it isn't. image

    He do get paid to review it (I assume) so he could have spent a few more days at it anyways. No, he still wont think it is fun but he would have had more to write about.

    What more? Just to Write more of the same you mean?

    If zone after zone, Dungeon after Dungeon is the same Copy / Pasta experience? What does an extra zone or two add to the review?

    I don't see the point. /shrug

  • PalaziousPalazious Lewiston, IDPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by Palazious
    Originally posted by Loke666

    While he do have some points (like the repeating of dungeons, I for one rather have 10 huge well made dungeons then 74 small repeated) he did only play 20 levels and then review a MMO so the review is really only good for the noob experience.

    And yes, 20 levels of any MMO ain't enough for a fair review, we seen that many times in the past (remember the 20 level AoC reviews, anyone?). He also writes that the game never gets better ut with a limited noob experience, how does he know?

    I read it when it was posted a week ago BTW and I am too lazy to see if something have been added since. :)

    IMO, with AoC the pre 20 levels were drastically different then the post 20 levels.

    In ESO (I'm in my post 50 playing levels) there really isn't anything different post 20. 

    Do you know of anything much different post 20 versus pre 20 in ESO?

    That is beside the point, we had this discussion many times on this forum and I think at least close to everyone agree that you should level up to at least 60% of max level to write a "review" or it is just a "preview".

    We still get what the reviewer think about the game and some of the bad stuff but he should have at least played to lvl30 minimum.

    That makes sense.

     

    I think with most MMOs that it could be a drastic difference....ESO might be the exception but one wouldn't really know that unless they completed the 60%

    Palazious <The Vindicators> Darkfall
    Palazious r40, rr45 SW War
    Palazious 50 Pirate PoTBS
    Palazious 35 Sorcerer Vanguard
    Palazious 75 wizard EQ
    Paladori 50 Champion LOTRO
    Poppa Reaver bugged at rank15

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