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[Editorial] General: MMO Exploits - What's the Harm?

BMunchausenBMunchausen Staff WriterBurlingame, CAPosts: 400MMORPG.COM Staff

Last week MMO websites lit up with news of The Elder Scrolls Online's economy-killing item dupe exploit. This bug/loophole allowed players to infinitely duplicate inventory items and then sell them, thus earning endless piles of illegal gold. Naturally, this had devastating effects on the game's auction house, community, and possibly the longevity of the game. Still, there are players out there who think using exploits is OK, and that publishers shouldn't punish players for using them. Their argument boils down to, “What's the big deal? It's just a game.” Well I'd beg to differ.

Read more of Neilie Johnson's MMO Exploits - What's the Harm?

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Scenes from my first keep siege. We were small, but we were victorious.

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Comments

  • GadarethGadareth Westcliff-on-SeaPosts: 313Member
    Well Said.
  • TobrukTobruk St Paul, MNPosts: 40Member

    been playing MMO's since the beginning and there has definitely been a huge change in how players associate with how to handle Exploits. In the beginning it was that players feared finding and doing an exploit as they knew that it could end up getting them banned from the game. Unless they were those select few who actually helped and reported exploits to the Devs so they could fix them.

    Yes there was those that would use the exploits to their advantage but they also knew full well that at any moment they could be caught and perma banned. So they didnt announce it to the world that they knew how to do said exploit.

    Todays players actually think its cool and deserve a pat on the back for finding and using exploits in games. They also film themselves doing the exploit and post it to Youtube for everyone to see. Then, when they are finally punished for doing the exploit, it is them that is mad. How could you punish them for using an exploit in your game, since you must have intentionally put the exploit into the game in the first place.

    Of course this then gets the threats from the players of the, you ban me ill sue you, crowd. Or the unfortunate one for F2P games, you ban me ill just create a new, free email. Then create a new account and start doing it all over again until you ban me again.

    Bottom line it just comes down to common sense. Exploits are not intended to be in the actual game, its just something that accidentally happened when programming. This is why there is a rule of conduct for every MMO asking that you dont use them and if you do find one, that you report it right away so that you dont get into trouble.

  • PemminPemmin Posts: 340Member Uncommon

  • HokieHokie Vancouver Wa.Posts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    I personally think gaming companies need to make more of an example out of them. And gold buyers along with sellers.

    "I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Algo Star SystemPosts: 647Member Uncommon
    I joined a pretty cool trade guild and I used to be able to sell all types of things as we all progressed through the game.  Once the XP/Gold/Dupe exploits went mainstream it all died. Everybody zipped to VR10, have buttloads of money and no reason to buy anything because they have stacks and stacks of important mats. Nobody even put's stuff up for sale anymore. Pretty sad, for a player like me who was legit and playing straight up.
  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,183Member Uncommon

    In my opinion it was the companies that wrote games for consoles who are at the heart of the problem.  There were always cheat codes for those games and as those console players moved on to PC's and MMO's they still wanted their cheat codes.  Hence whenever anyone found one, it was shark frenzy to take advantage of it before they fixed it.  Most of those who cheat don't think anything of it, just their way of playing the game.

    Good developers roll back their servers when this happens, bad ones don't.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    Say what you will about GW2 it was absolutely hilarious how they were publicly responding to exploiters on Reddit telling them how much they abused the weapon price exploit. People were mad saying "I barely did it! Why should I get banned?!" And Anet CS responded with "you did it 4,567 times"

    image
  • wangkomwangkom Leesburg, VAPosts: 119Member

    I honestly think that all these game companies need to stop being so cheap and hire their own experienced Q&A and then drop all the Alpha / Close Beta / Open Beta crap, develop your game, test your game to the fullest for any bugs/exploits and then release a finished game for us. Im sick and tired of getting these half ass broken games.

  • PanzerbasePanzerbase Chicago, ILPosts: 423Member
    The only people claiming "what's the harm" are the same cheapskate 14 year old kids screaming for FTP and /or those who got caught. BAN THEM!
  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 801Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wangkom

    I honestly think that all these game companies need to stop being so cheap and hire their own experienced Q&A and then drop all the Alpha / Close Beta / Open Beta crap, develop your game, test your game to the fullest for any bugs/exploits and then release a finished game for us. Im sick and tired of getting these half ass broken games.

    It wouldn't hurt to move a little marketing budget over to Q&A but stress tests are really important to find out how a game responds to a high server load. Something that may work well with a dozen people in an area could entirely shit the bed with hundreds of players nearby.

  • Sajman01Sajman01 Rochester, NYPosts: 204Member
    Individual uses an exploit, you want their head.
    Corporation uses an exploit, you call it being business savvy.

    ANet has been exploiting their customers since Nov 2012 when they bait and switched their entire game. Don't see any outrage for that exploitation.
  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXPosts: 949Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Neilie Johnson

    To be fair, it's hard to tell who the players are who express the worst of the stupidly selfish and short-sighted forum remarks.  They could be twelve year old kids. (In fact, I hope they are.)

    More likely they are twenty or thirty something pot smoking console gamers.  Again and again we see a demand for sandbox and skills based systems rather than WoW clones (typical RPG game mechanics).  Why?  Because they (the pot smoking console gamers) long for an exploit that they attribute to sandbox and skills based systems.  When the sandbox game is made and it doesn't have the desired exploit, the game fails.  And the whining commences.

     

    Realize that every complaint of care bear, or a return to the good old days is in fact a call for exploits.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.

  • CrusadesCrusades Columbus, OHPosts: 480Member
    I still feel it's all on the shoulders of development. Yes players can and should report, but development is who needs to handle it. Folks need to understand today's business model is not about quality. Investment has figured out you can sell gamers anything, it doesn't need to be quality. What the product needs to be islow ooverhead, quick return, investment gets what it gets. Consumers get what they get too and that could mean a half assed game because talent and resources were scarce as development is asked to do more with less. Ever hear " they don't make it like they used to" ?
  • TheCrow2kTheCrow2k Adelaide, AKPosts: 953Member
    Well said. Publishers have made things worse for themselves though as pay to beta is becoming more prevalent & less beta testers come to test & report while more come looking for a headstart advantage & this later group generally don't bug report & are more likely to keep exploits quiet.
  • GadarethGadareth Westcliff-on-SeaPosts: 313Member

    The more complex these games get the more code is required the more code is required the more logical errors will appear. The more errors that appear the loop holes exist to be exploited. The more loops holes discovered the more coding needed to patch them. The more patches added to the code the more complicated it gets. The more complex these games get .......

    Welcome to the development cycle of a ongoing MMORPG game.

     

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,272Member Uncommon

    What's worse is that the BS going on in Cyrodiil was not hot fixed 2 weeks ago. I've never seen so much damage done in such a short time. 

     

    Zenimax has to get out front of these things, be proactive instead of reactive, and do it quickly.

     

    In all honesty the patch in 3 days is 15 days late.

     
     
     
  • MavolenceMavolence Appleton, WIPosts: 612Member Uncommon
    Personally, I think exploits blow and it sucks that they are there. However, If i knew of an exploit i would abuse it to its fullest becuase everyone else will and I'd rather level the playing field and not fall behind because of others abuse. In my opinion though exploits should be taken out immediately as soon as possible by the developers. Punishing players for a developer fuck up though is ridiculous. If anyone should be punished it should be the game company not fixing exploits or ignoring them. An exploit ot me isn't cheating because you're not using any 3rd party software or any kind of hack or manipulation of code. You are taking advantage of a mistake the developers put right in front of you for the taking by everyone not just you. don't they say all is fair in love and war? Well in such a highly highly competitive game like an mmorpg  with pvp i'm not just going to sit on my ass waiting for devlopers to fix something they might never get around to anyways while all these people get rich while i rough it for "integrity" reasons.  I'm going to make myself competitive by any means necessary within game mechanics presented.  Fix your games developers, its old.
  • AsariashaAsariasha Somewhere inPosts: 218Member Uncommon

    If you get caught exploiting a bug, then it is not the fault of the developer but your very own. I always find it quite amusing to see postings of players stating that they were banned and that they did not know why. They usually know very well and by making their case public they do nothing but cater to public amusement.

     

    Players should remain as "professional" as with other services such as telephone companys and possible line faults.

     

    Ifr you got banned and really do not know why, write a petition to the support. Ask why  you have been banned and state that you can not imagine why you have been banned. If there is no hard evidence you will be able to play again and sometimes even get a small compensation.

     

    If there is evidence, simply stop exploiting bugs.

  • MavolenceMavolence Appleton, WIPosts: 612Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Asariasha

    If you get caught exploiting a bug, then it is not the fault of the developer but your very own. I always find it quite amusing to see postings of players stating that they were banned

    I completely disagree with this. If the developers made a mistake in the game and players are able to exploit a horribly designed mechanic then the fault lies with the developer not the player. Players will find a flaw if there is a flaw and punishing a player for capitlizing on that is just deflecting blame and pointing fingers saying how dare you find our fuck up, we should ban you for finding stuff out we need to fix and drawing attention to our horrible coding. Just fix it and move on as fast as possible.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Mavolence
    Originally posted by Asariasha

    If you get caught exploiting a bug, then it is not the fault of the developer but your very own. I always find it quite amusing to see postings of players stating that they were banned

    I completely disagree with this. If the developers made a mistake in the game and players are able to exploit a horribly designed mechanic then the fault lies with the developer not the player. Players will find a flaw if there is a flaw and punishing a player for capitlizing on that is just deflecting blame and pointing fingers saying how dare you find our fuck up, we should ban you for finding stuff out we need to fix and drawing attention to our horrible coding. Just fix it and move on as fast as possible.

    How much of the OP did you actually read ?

  • MavolenceMavolence Appleton, WIPosts: 612Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Mavolence
    Originally posted by Asariasha

    If you get caught exploiting a bug, then it is not the fault of the developer but your very own. I always find it quite amusing to see postings of players stating that they were banned

    I completely disagree with this. If the developers made a mistake in the game and players are able to exploit a horribly designed mechanic then the fault lies with the developer not the player. Players will find a flaw if there is a flaw and punishing a player for capitlizing on that is just deflecting blame and pointing fingers saying how dare you find our fuck up, we should ban you for finding stuff out we need to fix and drawing attention to our horrible coding. Just fix it and move on as fast as possible.

    How much of the OP did you actually read ?

    All of it

  • BlasphimBlasphim San Diego, CAPosts: 349Member Common

    I find the lines of "creative use of mechanics" and "exploitation" rather amusing myself.  Many times in WoW the "Top Guilds" found interesting ways to defeat encounters, and it was called creative use, which was then patched out shortly.  A smaller less popular guild does the same thing, it's called exploitation, and thusly banned.  I know it's not item duping, which seems to be the focus for this article, but it falls in the same category imho.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Mavolence
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Mavolence
    Originally posted by Asariasha

    If you get caught exploiting a bug, then it is not the fault of the developer but your very own. I always find it quite amusing to see postings of players stating that they were banned

    I completely disagree with this. If the developers made a mistake in the game and players are able to exploit a horribly designed mechanic then the fault lies with the developer not the player. Players will find a flaw if there is a flaw and punishing a player for capitlizing on that is just deflecting blame and pointing fingers saying how dare you find our fuck up, we should ban you for finding stuff out we need to fix and drawing attention to our horrible coding. Just fix it and move on as fast as possible.

    How much of the OP did you actually read ?

    All of it

    So just so I'm clear.....in an "editorial" about how stupid it is for some players to try and pass the blame for exploiting back to the developers you made a post doing exactly that ?

  • MavolenceMavolence Appleton, WIPosts: 612Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Mavolence
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Mavolence
    Originally posted by Asariasha

    If you get caught exploiting a bug, then it is not the fault of the developer but your very own. I always find it quite amusing to see postings of players stating that they were banned

    I completely disagree with this. If the developers made a mistake in the game and players are able to exploit a horribly designed mechanic then the fault lies with the developer not the player. Players will find a flaw if there is a flaw and punishing a player for capitlizing on that is just deflecting blame and pointing fingers saying how dare you find our fuck up, we should ban you for finding stuff out we need to fix and drawing attention to our horrible coding. Just fix it and move on as fast as possible.

    How much of the OP did you actually read ?

    All of it

    So just so I'm clear.....in an "editorial" about how stupid it is for some players to try and pass the blame for exploiting back to the developers you made a post doing exactly that ?

    Yes, we're clear. however in the post not quoted by Asariasha and yourself i went into why a bit more. Agree or not is your prerogative. Cheers

  • MykellMykell MackayPosts: 618Member Uncommon

    People work systems in the real world to their advantage so its not a surprise people work online systems as well. People get caught red handed doing the worst things and still deny it and plead not guilty.

    MMO's are just a reflection of people in general society nowadays.

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