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"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Originally posted by DMKano So much for MMORPG rating a few points lower than average on metacritic - it's 72 over there :P http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-elder-scrolls-online Longevity 9 ? That MUST be a typo Social 8 ? You can't even group with someone to HELP them on a quest you've completed yourself ! Or a team where every member has to solve the puzzle individually?? What? Here's a more realistic score: AESTHETICS – 8 INNOVATION - 7 POLISH - 6 LONGEVITY - 7 SOCIAL - 7 VALUE - 7 70% final score And 70% would be in line with "a couple of points lower" than metacritic. Just saying. "You done scored it too high"
It's his opinion and one that aligns a bit more with my experience.
AESTHETICS – 8
INNOVATION - 6
POLISH - 5
LONGEVITY - 9
SOCIAL - 8
VALUE - 8
But that only raises the "total score" to 7.33
So my conclusion is that the game, for some, is greater or lesser than the sum of its parts.
I can see myself playing this for quite a long time. I also have been more social with people I meet in the world but I suspect that some people, unless forced to group, just don't know how to do this.
Only things I really disagree with are value and social. I don't feel like the game is worth $60 and a sub fee. That is especially true when I compare it against some of the better F2P/B2P games or even games like FFXIV that has a much lower initial cost.
The social score is just silly. The game has a tendency to disallow things like group questing due to their awful phasing system. What else does ESO do that fosters a social playerbase? It is the most anti-social MMO I've played in over a decade. If it weren't for chat and Cyrodiil , I'd have no idea I was actually playing an MMO.
Even people that like the game are saying "That's pretty high..."
Might be a sign Will, I thought you weren't going to turn a blind eye to it's many problems...
Originally posted by simsalabim77 Only things I really disagree with are value and social. I don't feel like the game is worth $60 and a sub fee. That is especially true when I compare it against some of the better F2P/B2P games or even games like FFXIV that has a much lower initial cost. The social score is just silly. The game has a tendency to disallow things like group questing due to their awful phasing system. What else does ESO do that fosters a social playerbase? It is the most anti-social MMO I've played in over a decade. If it weren't for chat and Cyrodiil , I'd have no idea I was actually playing an MMO.
While I agree their game is not set up to naturally allow an enjoyable group questing experience (though I would argue there are very few that are as "questing" seems to take a dive once you add more people) The social is just fine.
grouped up many times to help people with a boss or quest only to then accompany them for a bit for a few more quests.
Traded with people (best trading I've had in a while) only to speak with people and join them for a few quests.
pvp requires some social interacton.
I've answered many questions for people who were new or confused about things.
This is "being social".
Being forced to quest together is not necessarily social. You have to "be social" in order to experience social interaction.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Ooo if thats the open world dungeons not a huge deal, I thought that was their main dungeons for teaming lol. Over 100 open world dungeons IMO even with similar lay out and different windows dressings should be applauded. Most MMOs dont even take the time to make 1 open world dungeon.
That looks to me like quest caves
No different than what WoW does.
I agree with this.
Yet another pumped up score for a review at MMORPG.com for a major advertiser.
Value 8? LOL!!! $60 + $15/mo + cash shop for a game with a whole raft of problems, and they want people to keep paying for months while the ones that can be fixed get sorted out? How about value 2.
Same with social. When you can't even help your friends with a quest you have completed, this KILLS social gameplay. And what is there to do BUT fight in this game? Nothing. So, where's the "social gameplay elements? Not in the game along with the rest of everything that was "Too difficult" to put in.
Other things in this review must have been viewed through "green" colored glasses (i.e. seeing the green that is coming in) to get scores so high. (Especially Lonvevity -9? Really? The VR system is the most uninspired endgame system to come out in years.)
And this is after a MMORPG.com column basically saying who has any criticism for the game is a hater.
Another official review to be ignored here, what a surprise.
Originally posted by Ikeda This picture makes me laugh every time:
This is one of the reasons why I found the game so boring and regret my purchase. That and the quest after quest after quest to level gameplay (It is like an interactive bedtime story, not a world in the least). And the almost non-existent death penalty. And non-responsive combat. Ports everywhere making travel meaningless and the world even smaller. The character progression is really good though, I'll say that.
Originally posted by zellmer Even people that like the game are saying "That's pretty high..." Might be a sign Will, I thought you weren't going to turn a blind eye to it's many problems...
Nah, I feel like an 8.0 is spot on and I enjoy the game. It's not a 9 or 10, but I feel like a lot of the games here are overrated anyway such as GW2, Rift, etc. And I still play all of those from time to time. It's slightly above average, but not ground breaking, at least until the first couple of patches roll in with a justice system, spellcrafting, etc. then it will probably raise the score significantly.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIVHave played: You name itIf you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Originally posted by Aeonblades Originally posted by zellmer Even people that like the game are saying "That's pretty high..." Might be a sign Will, I thought you weren't going to turn a blind eye to it's many problems...
6 is slightly above average. 8 is nearing perfection.
Originally posted by syriinx Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Open world dungeons and a cave that has a quest objective is very different.
=-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums.
Sorry Bill, but this score is so off,... you need to get rid of scores alltogether
Really, i don't want to get into this too much, but i dislike reviews that don't use a "5 is average" system. It is so missleading and obviously only there to bait readers. And you really don't need to use this kind of stuff to bait readers Bill. Damn it. You are a good writer,... this scoring is wrong beyond believe tho.
Social 8,.. com'on lol.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Many of the complaints here are the exact reason that user reviews don't work. Bugs are an issue with any game, but the thing is that USERS often think bugs == review score. This game has lots of bugs, therefore it should have a 4 out of 10. As a critic, you often need to rate a game based on what it does, opposed to how it does it. It's all about technical merits.
If I were to break down Bill's review, I would say:
Gameplay (8) - I tend to agree. I might have actually rated it higher. In so many MMOs, crafting is a simple, often meaningless, venture. The fact that ESO has tried to put so much emphasis on crafting as a major component to the core game experienec was awesome. This is why it'll also contribute to my innovation score. I actually don't mind the combat. I think there is a good balance between action-based and hotbar-style controls. The execution could probably use some refinement, but that would got to the polish category. I feel like they did a pretty good job of creating a balance between the MMO player and the Elder Scrolls fan, but in the process may have pissed off both at some point or another throughout the game. I would still say this is an 8, though.
Aesthetics (9) - I don't think that anyone who's played this on Ultra settings can disagree that the game is beautiful.
Innovation (7) - I would personally bump this to a 9. 9?!?!? What?!?!? Yeah, that's right, I said it. First, again, creating a game where crafting actually matters is massive. They've also forced you to make a huge decision. You can spend skill points on crafting and create superior items, or on talents and sacrifice the bonuses you'll get from the crafted items (or spend huge money to get your hands on the best gear). Either way, there's choice that's required. Multiple guilds. Cool. No Auction house? What? Oh wait, did SWG have an auction house? Nope, not originally. I think it did later on, but someone who played until the end can correct me on that. This is a crazy throwback feature and I loved it, and it also serves to, hopefully, create a more social game. Also the stuff Bill mentioned already.
Polish (6) - 6 isn't out of line here. Everyone wants to give it 2 but, again, all things must be considered. That said, I might rate it a little lower. Performance is awesome, but there are just so many bugs right now that I'd have a difficult time giving it more than 5.
Longevity (9) - Meh, maybe 8, 7? If you're really into PvP then there is a lot there for you. For PvE, it's still a little early to say. There's still a lot we don't know about what content will be coming to satisfy those users.
Social (8) - Yes! 8! If you fail to see that the game makes every attempt to create a social gameplay experience then you're playing it wrong. Even the trade experience means taking to chat to find people, maybe friending them, making a note they buy raw jute. You can be part of multiple guilds, which I think is a way to trying to satisfy the lack of an auction house, but I digress. There is group content. There is difficult content that, usually, requires multiple people to complete. Again, leave the fact that phasing is broken to polish. You can't give social 2 because phasing is broken and polish 2 because phasing is broken. Oh, wait, but you can. Actually you can probably just give it all a zero. Just head over to metacritic to find your buddies.
Value(8) - I was a little pissed with the whole CE scheme. Looking back now, though, I shoulda just bought the damn thing. I'd pay $20 for a mount right now! There is a lot of game here, IMO, possibly more than what I've seen in recent years. So strictly from a $ spent / Hours Played, I think it's a reall good value. Even if you were only to play from start to 50 and complete the main story, It's something worth going through.
So I think that 7.9 isn't crazy. I might have at it at 7.5, but I'm not going to sit here and bitch over .4 points.
----------------Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - USTankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US----------------
Originally posted by simsalabim77 Originally posted by Aeonblades Originally posted by zellmer Even people that like the game are saying "That's pretty high..." Might be a sign Will, I thought you weren't going to turn a blind eye to it's many problems...
Not at mmorpg.com, most what we would call AAA made games are rated between 7.2-8.5. So being ESO will fall under that area, its not being rated very highly at all. This would be like any other site giving a 5 or a 6.
I predicted twice that ESO would get 8.5 on this site, i was wrong both times. I was right with the "soft cons" however.
The scores for social and longevity are both a joke and i doubt Bill doesn't know this. Giving both aspects the 5 that they deserve would lower the final score to a reasonable, but businesswise unpopular 6.5 -7.
I still think that if Bill as a gamer at heart loves all games so much that he can't point out the obvious flaws, he should stick to playing them instead of reviewing them. Everything close to 8 on a commercial site leaves a bad taste, even more on mmorpg.com.
Great review, and I agree with it 99%. That 1% is that in the future, I think it will easily be a 7.9 (probably higher) game. As it sits right now, without taking any knowledge of what's coming (craglorn and such) it's a 7. However, I wouldn't be surprised if on the re-review (or even 6 months from now) it's a 9+ game.
As for Value and Longevity, I'm an altoholic through and through. Heck I have 3 WoW accounts, because one of them has 50 characters, which is the max for an account (not many know that lol). It's been a very very long time since I've played a game where I get on an alt and I'm like, "I want to go play my main". The fact that for $60 (or $100 if you're like me) you get TONS of game, makes the longevity and value score high. Most modern games you're lucky to get 20 hours of play. I haven't kept track of how long I've played, but I'll just say this, I took all of April off work, and if I wasn't eating, sleeping, praying, pooping, or riding my motorcycle, I was on ESO, and there's still plenty to do. My VR10 has only just begun the Daggerfall content, and my VR1 has just started the Ebonheart content. Only reason I have 2 VR characters is I want a werewolf and a vampire character
I bought the game on a whim. I regret the decision because the last 10 times i've logged in I ended up playing less than an hour each time due to the difficulty in solo play. I'm an old school gamer. been playing since Everquest original days. I have no problem with difficulty soloing or grouping but ESO is ridiculous. No nameplates is a terribad idea for an MMO. I went into a dungeon last night 2 levels lower than me (solo dungeon) and I was stomped every time if there was more than one mob. I'm a paladin type class that wields a 2hander. I should be able to handle 2 mobs at once but i can't...
On a side note, the game is gorgeous and fairly smooth. It's a little too slow paced for me as far as leveling and xp wise but the quests are not bad at all. It's kind of disjointed as far as where to go for quests though.
I also feel like i am NOT playing an MMO even though i'm in a very active social guild. When i go out into the world i just see random healthbars, no names or anything. To me that's not immersion. I want to see names so i know who i am interacting with be it PC or NPC. Sure you can hover over but... be honest, that's tedious and pointless. I don't want immersion in an MMO. I want better interaction, names, longevity, uniqueness. This game just seems bland and not very MMO at all.
I wish it the best however.
Originally posted by Rattenmann Social 8,.. com'on lol.
It is if you are a "social person".
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Rattenmann Social 8,.. com'on lol.
If that's the case then I guess every game would get a social score of 0 for you then.
Originally posted by gwei1984 Originally posted by Ikeda This picture makes me laugh every time:
I know it doesnt fit your troll agenda and populism, but these are just the bunch of small world dungeons/caves. Why not talk about the 15 large public dungeons and 16 unique instanced group dungeons that are in the game and are not even close to copy/paste?
So much misinformation and BS here...../facepalm
Yea, people will go any lengths to trash something that wasn't meant to be for them these days. It's honestly kind of sad. I do find it amusing that Tom's Hardware of all places is the one doing a smear job this time. Kind of unexpected, I use their site frequently for hardware questions I have.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Originally posted by simsalabim77 Originally posted by Aeonblades Originally posted by zellmer Even people that like the game are saying "That's pretty high..." Might be a sign Will, I thought you weren't going to turn a blind eye to it's many problems...
I Agree Nanfoodle..
Whats bothers me most though its that Bills( which i consider a good reviewer) points cannot even arguably considered right.
Social 8--He justifies it with the social Points Of Interest(public dungeons etc ) what doesnt tell u is that u actually dont need a group to make those-since u always find a random group of people there in rush time, not to mention the bots at boss spwans. I got my templar to VT1 and i have done all the POIs withiout being in a group..never.I olny grouped 4 times just to make the ordinary dungeons(with the elites)but beyond that nothing else.Quest with my friend? lol good jokez.The enhanced grouping experience is for when u REALLY need someone to complete something, not form a group just to'form' it.
Now how can u give an 8 to a game that tries its best to be anti-cosial and anti morpg with the lane phase, in order to give u an immersive SP experience(Which is pretty DECENT NO DOUBT).It cant get a higher than 5(at best)
Longevity 9---where u got nothng else to do rather than PvP (which is general nice)--and continual...questing questing questing, which however well formed it is, it lacks challenge-And all that package gets a 9 -,- A 7 is more suitable, but still Longevity in contrast with Social its debatable some people have a different view from me and its completely respectable
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by SavageHorizon Is this the same person who accused the people who had issues with the game of being spoon fed haters. The same person who was baiting in their other thread but didn't have the polite to post again in that same thread. Just a reminder OP http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/411308/page/1 Perhaps you would be kind enough to comment on many of the posts in your eso hate baiting thread now.
Originally posted by BillMurphy
I'm not Ryan Getchell. I'm Bill Murphy. Both articles from different writers.
Are you sure? I've never seen the two of you in the same room together... Hey, where'd Clark go?
Anyway, I always like reading your reviews whether I agree or not. I like that you still seem to enjoy games even though you have to play them for a living.
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Rattenmann Social 8,.. com'on lol.
Originally posted by Sovrath