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Poll about greifing....

24

Comments

  • JulkulaJulkula KuopioPosts: 21Member

    I'd say NO. But it totally depends what kind of game are we playing. If it's basic boring level/gear grinding themepark then griefing can hurt. If it's more skill based and horizontal proggression game then there isn't griefing. It's just killing and war. So I voted It depends.

     

    But seriously. Some carebears here ;)

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    All you really have to do is look at the huge success stories FFA PVP games have had to get your answer.....let me know when you find one we can look at.

    AS you and others have commented on, favoring this sort of gameplay is, essentially, financial suicide for the game company.  Griefy ganksters are not playing the same game as most other folks when they log in.    And with no real negative feedback for their negative ways, there's no reason for them to stop their evil ways.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Mardukk
    I have no problem with being ganked.  I don't care for griefing as that implies that the person is killing you over and over again.  Some many scared people in this thread, it really isn't that bad geeez.  

    why do i even to to suffer one griefing kill? These are games .. and anything make it less fun for me .. will push me to other entertainment choices.

     

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Originally posted by Lissyl

    You need only listen to the swaths of pvp players who talk about how 'fun' it is to literally make people quit the game out of frustration to realize there is only one answer to this poll.  Anything less is willful ignorance and intentional blindness.

     

    Or the only answer is a random choice just to see the results :p

  • NephelaiNephelai SydneyPosts: 183Member Uncommon
    The overwhelming number of people that play MMO's for PvP are people who are terrible at 1v1 aiming type PvP. This is because at some point they can at least get a kill even if it is thru out levelling, out gearing or out numbering their opponent. Bads gotta have a home too.
  • DatawarlockDatawarlock Eden Prairie, MNPosts: 338Member
    I said no.... but only because I, unlike many on here, enjoy a CHALLENGE. Not having to fight the same scripted mobs 500 times a day is preferable to me. It's not the pvp guys that kill MMO's, it's the carebears and casuals that want to go online and read a book about how to kill this boss and that boss and never actually do anything for themselves. God knows if a boss popped up that was randomly scripted to pull off any of a thousand moves at any point in time, the forums would fill up in seconds with "the boss iz 2 hard" posts.
  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member

    I'm gonna say yes.  And for the record, I love open world pvp.  There's nothing quite like that adrenaline rush that comes from the tension of seeing an enemy player nearby while you're questing in the open world.  Is he going to attack?  Is he going to wait until I engage mobs and then gank me?  It just creates a feeling you can never get from PvE alone, or even PvP in a controlled setting.  

    That said, I think all the fun of those experiences are destroyed when that enemy player is just someone 50 levels higher than you.  That's not PvP, that's player versus nothing.  I think it's equally stupid being that high level player.  I can't comprehend that being any fun.  I understand the enjoyment is purely derived from trolling, knowing you're giving the other player a miserable experience; and I just can't relate to that.

    It gets even stupider when everyone logs off and switches to their main characters to counter gank.  Then the guilds are called in, blah blah blah.  

    What I'd like to see is WoW-like open world pvp in a game that has a down-scaling system like GW2.  This way all open world pvp will be legit, every fight relatively fair.  

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member

    I love PvP.

    I do not like PvP in most MMO's though as it is a pathetic kind of PvP.

    And I really detest the kinds on player you find in MMO's with PvP.

    Why? Because in a game with levels and gear progression you still get people acting tough when they kill a lower level character pretending they have skill or are better players and that speaks volumes about the type of person they are. And I don't like people like that.

     

  • MyownGodMyownGod SydneyPosts: 205Member
    Originally posted by Talinguard

    The question is, if higher level players area allowed to kill lower level players hurt the game?

    Now I realize that it might depend, but I don't want to get overly complicated. 

    Overall all do players that take satisfaction killing other players without risk hurt most games?

    I think this still should be allowed, however there should be no penalty what so ever for the lower level players, and there should be heavier consequences for the higher level doing so, so in a sense its like the killing and/or raping of innocences during war, the soldier who commits such act, will be and should be punish with zero tolerance (This used to be the case and often still).

  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 801Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Mardukk
    I have no problem with being ganked.  I don't care for griefing as that implies that the person is killing you over and over again.  Some many scared people in this thread, it really isn't that bad geeez.  

    why do i even to to suffer one griefing kill? These are games .. and anything make it less fun for me .. will push me to other entertainment choices.

     

    One kill isn't griefing. Camping your body for a while and doing it again and again, that's griefing. One kill here and there is the price of admission for playing on a pvp server or entering a pvp area. What you did to cause you to suffer  it was roll a character on the wrong faction.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by bcbully

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by lugal
    I'm gonna loosely quote Blizz, there is no greifing on pvp servers. So, they infer that if you choose a pvp server, you accept the risks, no excuse. Now, can people ruin other people fun by repetedly killing them, or kill players who have no chance, yes. Does it hurt the game, sure, however; the problem isn't the person pvping, it is the person selecting the wrong server type.
    If I log into a PvP game and all that happens from level 1 onward is that I spend 95% of my time getting griefed, I will leave the game. This is not the kind of PvP I agreed to (no chance PvP). Why on earth would anyone agree to that kind of PvP?Griefers kill off PvP games by chasing new players away from the game. They just are not smart enough to notice, or to selfish to care.
    There are no mmorpgs made like this... Why come up with doomsday scenarios
    EverQuest had their 2 "Zek" No Rules PvP severs. Up to level 5 (not 1, I admit), players could not get hit from other players. That was the only rule. After that, the scenario I described did happen.

    The thing is, it is not MMOs that "make" this happen. It is players. Have you never logged out of an MMO due to some player(s) bugging the snot out of you, whether by griefing you or just following you around, being annoying? Players do this, not the games.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Mardukk
    I have no problem with being ganked.  I don't care for griefing as that implies that the person is killing you over and over again.  Some many scared people in this thread, it really isn't that bad geeez.  
    For me, it takes just ONE time and I am uninstalling. Not my idea of fun, especially if I paying for it.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by lugal
    I'm gonna loosely quote Blizz, there is no greifing on pvp servers. So, they infer that if you choose a pvp server, you accept the risks, no excuse. Now, can people ruin other people fun by repetedly killing them, or kill players who have no chance, yes. Does it hurt the game, sure, however; the problem isn't the person pvping, it is the person selecting the wrong server type.

    If I log into a PvP game and all that happens from level 1 onward is that I spend 95% of my time getting griefed, I will leave the game. This is not the kind of PvP I agreed to (no chance PvP). Why on earth would anyone agree to that kind of PvP?

     

    Griefers kill off PvP games by chasing new players away from the game. They just are not smart enough to notice, or to selfish to care.

    It has always been my contention that much of this is sabotage and that the people doing it were very much aware of their actions, shills for other games who want said game to fail. Perhaps my mistake is that I give others too much credit and these people really are that stupid and have no ability to think beyond the current game session. The more obvious question on my mind is, why development continue to develop these systems. Maybe they are on the other end of the spectrum and give gamers no credit for brains, assuming just enough people will fall for the same old sucker punch sandbox gimmick to make them some money.

  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy DublinPosts: 550Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Mardukk
    I have no problem with being ganked.  I don't care for griefing as that implies that the person is killing you over and over again.  Some many scared people in this thread, it really isn't that bad geeez.  

    For me, it takes just ONE time and I am uninstalling. Not my idea of fun, especially if I paying for it.

     

    If you dislike it that much why would you buy, install and login to a game knowing full well that PvP is a (major) part of it?

     

    Personally I enjoy games with the potential for player vs player conflict despite not being much of a PvPer.

    In EVE, making forays into wh/low/null sec were really enjoyable because of the potential to lose my ship and cargo, being more aware of my surroundings, getting chased or deciding to fight or flee added an additional depth to a game. Being able to go everywhere without a care in the world would mean everyone gravitates to where income is highest.

    Risk vs reward is necessary in my opinion.

  • YoungCaesarYoungCaesar San Diego, CAPosts: 297Member Uncommon
    the few open world pvp games out there ( DFUW, MO, EvE ) are niche because theyre full of bugs too

    the thing is, you guys only think about a regular themepark with pvp tacked on. It cant have a power gap that big between higher and lower lvls, its better if the game is more skill based than gear or lvl based.
  • XyireXyire Fort Collins, COPosts: 64Member Common

    It seems that a lot of people who just don't like pvp servers are responding to this thread.  That seems kind-of pointless.  if your answer to "do pvp griefers ruin the game" is "if i get killed even once I quit" then you just should only play on PvE servers and your opinion about griefers is not really valid in this context - since to you any unconsentual pvp ruins the game.

     

    PVP servers and griefing are two separate things.  Pvp servers exist in games which do not cause tons of griefing.  The largest example of course being wow.  Sure the pvp is unconsentual in "contested" areas but very rarely do people get griefed (killed and camped).  Part of the reason is that escape is fairly easy on wow servers.

     

    Of course spawn camping the newbie areas is griefing, and sure that happens in some games... but not any decent ones these days... there are a million ways to stop that kind of behavior.  

     

    I always play on pvp servers and if their is an option to "flag" myself for pvp, I do so.  This has lead to my getting killed by higher levels a number of times, but honestly more of a handful of times rather than the norm. 

     

    What I mean to be saying in all this is:  PvP servers are fine; don't try to say all pvp servers in games are just full of griefers - that is simply ignorant drivel.  Saying open world pvp kills games is also unsupported.  Most games that fail are bad, and that has little to nothing to do with whether or not they have pvp or pve servers.

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,473Member Uncommon
    The answer is no.

    -> You chose to play on the PvP server, a PvP game etc. Either continue or leave. It's not the game's fault. Do your research.

    -> Themeparks and PvP don't really go together very well. Spawn camping, griefing etc is all a byproduct of the gear centric game.

    -> A lot of failed games tend to be flagged as PvP games(WAR comes to mind). What it was, alongside Darkfall and the rest of their kind, is a simply bad, unfinished game. This has nothing to do with PvE, PvP or even RP. Look: the biggest and most known games are PvP centric. CoD, BF, LoL, DoTA, ... Also in MMOs there are quite a bit of MMOs that have quite accentuated PvP and they're still doing more than fine. DAoC, eve, Aion etc.

    -> While I agree that a game should offer you some choice how to play, it's not the subject here. In short: more deep choices = a better game. But not too much choices, mind you!
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    If a game was setup kind of like UO was, where there was player PvP and the developer for some reason just expected players to get along, it would be a real problem.  If PvP is allowed, there are players who are going to engage in it regardless of environment, consequences or developer expectations.

     

    If a game is setup with the idea that players are not going to get along, and that not getting along is a fundamental aspect of the game, then it's not really going to change anything.  Players who aren't into PvP as a fundamental aspect of the game aren't going to play it, and if they do happen to log in, they aren't going to play the game very long.

     

    So it certainly is possible for lowbie ganking to ruin a game experience, but it's not likely unless the developer is hasn't paid any attention to PvP in games for the last twenty years.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,690Member Uncommon

    Hm. Judging by he title I was expecting a poll about griefing. This is a poll about PvP happening. Not remotely the same thing.

    BTW, griefing occurs in non-PvP games / areas as well.

    Why is everyone so quick to cry that they're being griefed any time PvP happens on a PvP server / game?

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,551Member Uncommon

    I don't want ganked at any level low or high.  To quote Qui Gon, "There's always a bigger fish."  

     

    And if I'm the one ganking - killing another player in open world makes me sick to my stomach.  I did it once and almost vomited.  It felt completely without reason.  I'm role playing a happy little wood elf who likes trees and the spring breeze - with homicidal tendencies???  It doesn't fit in my role playing.  Now Castle Wars felt good because it made sense I would defend my life, honor, and palace.  But people who want PvP are trying to spice up their boring gaming xp with "mob" that thinks.  I would rather they made more lively thinking mobs.  Me destroying a man or woman's chance to get their quest done and turned in just doesn't bang it for me.


  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon

    I'm going to say "no" because the people playing in a game where a higher level player can kill a lower level player should know the game he/she is playing and should roll with the punches.

    I don't like "running" of any sort. So I don't participate in marathons.

    I don't like "Swing Dancing" so I don't Swing Dance (though I like to watch it)

    There really is no issue here. If one does not like or cannot tolerate this type of game then don't play it. Problem solved.

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,579Member Uncommon
    I am in the depends category.  Is there a system where a high level attacking a low level has some kind of risk then I am for it.  Is there a way the low level has a chance to escape, then I am for it.  Is it just a guy that suffers nothing, can just sit and ruin someone's day for jollies, and the low level has no chance to escape except logging off...I am against this kind of griefing.
  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I'm going to say "no" because the people playing in a game where a higher level player can kill a lower level player should know the game he/she is playing and should roll with the punches.

    I don't like "running" of any sort. So I don't participate in marathons.

    I don't like "Swing Dancing" so I don't Swing Dance (though I like to watch it)

    There really is no issue here. If one does not like or cannot tolerate this type of game then don't play it. Problem solved.

    That would require common sense.  Most mmorpg players are lacking in that area.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I'm going to say "no" because the people playing in a game where a higher level player can kill a lower level player should know the game he/she is playing and should roll with the punches.

    I don't like "running" of any sort. So I don't participate in marathons.

    I don't like "Swing Dancing" so I don't Swing Dance (though I like to watch it)

    There really is no issue here. If one does not like or cannot tolerate this type of game then don't play it. Problem solved.

    That would require common sense.  Most mmorpg players are lacking in that area.

    It's not a lack of common sense it's a desire to play a game that looks like it has fun features or game play ,only to find out you can't play it or can't enjoy it because of one aspect of the game.

    Look at any new mmo coming out that has a focus on pvp and you'll see people saying oh it's not that bad I hardly ever get killed or even see pvp. That kind of advice may be true at the time but if things change in the game or it's just an outright lie it could easily lead someone into a game they " don't belong in"

    Archeage is like this. The game looks great to me and from what I read it has lots of people saying it's not a gankfest. I'm not really the type to bitch and moan on a forum if it does turn out to be I'll just go play something else but not everyone reacts that way and I don't think they should either.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I'm going to say "no" because the people playing in a game where a higher level player can kill a lower level player should know the game he/she is playing and should roll with the punches.

    I don't like "running" of any sort. So I don't participate in marathons.

    I don't like "Swing Dancing" so I don't Swing Dance (though I like to watch it)

    There really is no issue here. If one does not like or cannot tolerate this type of game then don't play it. Problem solved.

    That would require common sense.  Most mmorpg players are lacking in that area.

    It's not a lack of common sense it's a desire to play a game that looks like it has fun features or game play ,only to find out you can't play it or can't enjoy it because of one aspect of the game.

    Look at any new mmo coming out that has a focus on pvp and you'll see people saying oh it's not that bad I hardly ever get killed or even see pvp. That kind of advice may be true at the time but if things change in the game or it's just an outright lie it could easily lead someone into a game they " don't belong in"

    Archeage is like this. The game looks great to me and from what I read it has lots of people saying it's not a gankfest. I'm not really the type to bitch and moan on a forum if it does turn out to be I'll just go play something else but not everyone reacts that way and I don't think they should either.

    Isn't ArcheAge going to have PvE servers as well though? I thought I had heard that somewhere. If not, I'll be skipping that game even with as much as I enjoy playing Trion's other games.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

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