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[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: ESO Hate

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Comments

  • FoobarxFoobarx Poway, CAPosts: 451Member

    You cannot even remotely comment on the success or failure of an MMO at release.  Everything about the game is totally skewed due to the massive influx of players.  It's 6 months down the road that the "real" picture develops.  All games are typically worth the box price, it's the long term investment down the road that is, and always has been, in question.

     

    There is absolutely no denying the fact that the number one thing that players despise is a lack of players in their games.  Since there is NEVER a lack of players at launch, there is no point in judging a game on what *may* happen.  This includes the poo flingers as much as the fanbois.  When it happens, you will know it.  It won't take a cover story to tell you that it will happen, that it is happening, or that it has happened.

     

    ESO is destined to follow the path that all MMOs have followed in the past and that all new MMOs will follow in the future.  Player retention is the "publish or perish" of the MMO developers world.  Even the great behemoth that is WoW cannot escape it.  

  • poobin420poobin420 fall river, MAPosts: 3Member

    Nice article. I've been enjoying my time in ESO very much. Yea I've ran into a bunch of bugs but nothing game breaking. I don't understand peoples level of hate on the game. It's probably the same people that cry when a game turns out to be a "WoW" clone but when a game is different It's not enough like WoW. Oh well, this is why we will never get out of the WoW era.  What a shame!

     

  • HulluckHulluck lost in bfe, TNPosts: 605Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by Maltisse

    This is a rather interesting topic. I cannot help but think that it has been put together to help stir the pot (maybe I am just cynical). I mean, if everyone in the room thinks you stink, but yet you do not agree, chances are good, you probably stink. 

     

    Wrong. Case and point: SWTOR.  That game got slammed relentlessly as being dead by this community. Not having issues but "dead".  It was doing it's death rattle. That is until some reliable numbers got posted not to long ago placing it in the top 10 cash shops of 2013.  This community tore that game to pieces. Thread after thread after thread. It was mind numbingly stupid how repetitive those threads were. It had it's issues though the situation wasn't nearly as bad as people on this site made it out to be.

    Watch the next big launch on this site. This community does a 180 almost every single time after a game goes live. It hypes the snot out of a game and then turns on it before 30 days up. The only big launch that I can think of which had a  stupid amount of hype that this community didn't turn on recently was GW 2.

    That just goes to show that there is somethign t obe said for the saying:

    "You never get a second chance to make a 1st impression"

    It holds doubly true for MMOs. A decade and a half later and we can still see that the launch will determins the overall consensus of the game's state and it doesn't really ever change. Of the people who remember Anarchy Online, one of the 1st things they'll tell you or tha tthey remember is how bad the game was when it launched. To them, it never mattered that the game became great and so unique in so many ways. The only exception to this has been FFXIV. But look what had to be done to get that exception.  Players remember bad launches. SWTOR is doing very well right now. Surprisingly so. Yet it still has it's bad launch stigma attached to it. ZM and ESO are no different. They have a long way to go but unfortunately, in an MMO, once you lose trust, some people never look back. So they take with them their last memories and that is what stays with them and that is what ESO will always be.

    MMO publishers and developers need to get this through their heads.

    Get it right BEFORE it goes out the door or it's "Game Over"!

    This is true. Though a game could be in beta indefinitely and still have issues once the masses get their hands on it. These things aren't charities and we gamers should be a bit more reasonable if a company is actively trying to fix their product. I'm not saying give more shady companies that constantly use phrases like "indie developer" as an excuse a pass or anything. Has there been any compensation offered for any of the troubles this game has had?  I don't play either game.   It's just crazy how this community religiously pushes a game and before the first 30 days are up it turns on that game.

     

    Edit: It may not be fair for me to use the word community.  I take into account endless hype threads on this site as with any big launch and it's hard not to use the word community. As a lot of people were definitely pushing that game.

     

  • masterdtoxmasterdtox EnschedePosts: 66Member
    Originally posted by DAS1337

    So, you say ESO is about getting players to interact with others?  Really?

     

    The megaserver technology effectively destroys server community by itself.  The guild structure does the opposite of what it intends.  It forces players to join guilds that they otherwise wouldn't normally join, just to be able to use an auction house.  Real guilds are few and far between, as most guilds are only interested in your for the service that you provide, not because you can be a vital part of their community.  Grouping is totally borked, with all it's phasing, making questing near impossible.  Your can craft anything and everything by yourself, so you don't need to go outside of your own bubble.  Almost everything is solo'able.  I mean, almost the entire core of the game is as anti-social as you can get in a MMO.  The only things that work for groups are PvP and dungeons.  That's it.  

     

    Call it what it is.  A great IP that had great potential, being run by a company that isn't sure what they want their game to be.  Bathesda really messed up by giving the IP to a rookie developer.

    AMEN MAN! So glad some one with no pink glasses on! just being real as it actually is atm.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 628Member Uncommon
    This is the most ridiculous article I've read on this website. I can't believe an editor actually read this article and decided to publish it. The line of thought must have been, "This is sure to piss them off and cause a shitstorm. We'll get lots of views. Go ahead and publish it!"
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by Maltisse

    This is a rather interesting topic. I cannot help but think that it has been put together to help stir the pot (maybe I am just cynical). I mean, if everyone in the room thinks you stink, but yet you do not agree, chances are good, you probably stink. 

     

    Wrong. Case and point: SWTOR.  That game got slammed relentlessly as being dead by this community. Not having issues but "dead".  It was doing it's death rattle. That is until some reliable numbers got posted not to long ago placing it in the top 10 cash shops of 2013.  This community tore that game to pieces. Thread after thread after thread. It was mind numbingly stupid how repetitive those threads were. It had it's issues though the situation wasn't nearly as bad as people on this site made it out to be.

    Watch the next big launch on this site. This community does a 180 almost every single time after a game goes live. It hypes the snot out of a game and then turns on it before 30 days up. The only big launch that I can think of which had a  stupid amount of hype that this community didn't turn on recently was GW 2.

    That just goes to show that there is somethign t obe said for the saying:

    "You never get a second chance to make a 1st impression"

    It holds doubly true for MMOs. A decade and a half later and we can still see that the launch will determins the overall consensus of the game's state and it doesn't really ever change. Of the people who remember Anarchy Online, one of the 1st things they'll tell you or tha tthey remember is how bad the game was when it launched. To them, it never mattered that the game became great and so unique in so many ways. The only exception to this has been FFXIV. But look what had to be done to get that exception.  Players remember bad launches. SWTOR is doing very well right now. Surprisingly so. Yet it still has it's bad launch stigma attached to it. ZM and ESO are no different. They have a long way to go but unfortunately, in an MMO, once you lose trust, some people never look back. So they take with them their last memories and that is what stays with them and that is what ESO will always be.

    MMO publishers and developers need to get this through their heads.

    Get it right BEFORE it goes out the door or it's "Game Over"!

    This is true. Though a game could be in beta indefinitely and still have issues once the masses get their hands on it. These things aren't charities and we gamers should be a bit more reasonable if a company is actively trying to fix their product. I'm not saying give more shady companies that constantly use phrases like "indie developer" as an excuse for a pass or anything. Has there been any compensation offered for any of the troubles this game has had?  I don't play either game.   It's just crazy how this community religiously pushes a game and before the first 30 days are up it turns on that game so quickly.

     

    Like I said in an earlier post,

    There is a difference between an unrealistic expectation of a bug free launch and the realistic expectation of a game being properly QA'd before it is released.

    This article is trying to give the answer to the 1st expectation to the people expressing the 2nd.

    2 different issues.

  • SamhaelSamhael Huntsville, ALPosts: 700Member Uncommon
    While I agree with almost every point made in the article's first sentence, I don't hate ESO. I'm pretty much indifferent to it. I don't know if the end game is any good because I just couldn't maintain interest in playing long enough to get there. It felt lackluster and inadequately designed and it became a chore to log in after the first week. So I made sure I was cancelled and moved on.
  • reggiemwreggiemw zoetermeerPosts: 31Member


    Great article. I Find it rather sad to see how people really are. Even more sad its how they dont even realize themselves.

    I myself am an old school mmorpger and even though at the time the improvements of wow were great i've gradually seen mmorpg's after wow totally destroy what mmorpgs should be about. About community. About immersion.

    Ive hated mmorpgs the last 10 years, anything after wow, except lotro which was pretty good. Anything else was superficial garbage without any immersion or character attachement/depth.

    Yes eso is one of the best mmorpgs released in the last 10 years. Those who opose simply are to ignorant to realize but then again they are to ignorant to realize how ignorant they are so thats no surpise. Sheep will Always follow sheep but thats why they are sheep.

    Its a disgrace how even game sites give a low review to a game like elder scrolls online. The approach to its final score is totally unfair.

    I find eso a perfect match between modern and old school mmorpgs and they made a very good descision on moving crap like the global auction house which ruines any sense of accomplisment and any reason to even bother with crafting

    The hate train only goes to show how sad the current state of the mmorpg market is and lets not forget that companies Always offer what a playerbase wants so in reality the playerbase is to blame for the current state of mmorpgs.

     

  • ohioastroohioastro Columbus, OHPosts: 439Member Uncommon
    The over-the-top attacks on the author are pretty strong confirmation of what he's saying, and the lack of self-awareness on the part of the people piling on is, in it's own way, pretty amusing.
  • OlgarkOlgark BostonPosts: 320Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Darkcrystal
    What about doing a write up on how a lot of us love the game how about that,? Instead of trying to get more trolls on this forum?? Sigh/

    I agree. I really like the game and how they have made it. I think it is the best mmo to be released since 2003.

    Yes it has its flaws and teething problems, one which I was subject to. Overall though I enjoy the game and the community.

    It is also one of the smoothest launches of a mmo I have seen to date.

    image

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,558Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by reggiemw


    Great article. I Find it rather sad to see how people really are. Even more sad its how they dont even realize themselves.

    I myself am an old school mmorpger and even though at the time the improvements of wow were great i've gradually seen mmorpg's after wow totally destroy what mmorpgs should be about. About community. About immersion.

    Ive hated mmorpgs the last 10 years, anything after wow, except lotro which was pretty good. Anything else was superficial garbage without any immersion or character attachement/depth.

    Yes eso is one of the best mmorpgs released in the last 10 years. Those who opose simply are to ignorant to realize but then again they are to ignorant to realize how ignorant they are so thats no surpise. Sheep will Always follow sheep but thats why they are sheep.

    Its a disgrace how even game sites give a low review to a game like elder scrolls online. The approach to its final score is totally unfair.

    I find eso a perfect match between modern and old school mmorpgs and they made a very good descision on moving crap like the global auction house which ruines any sense of accomplisment and any reason to even bother with crafting

    The hate train only goes to show how sad the current state of the mmorpg market is and lets not forget that companies Always offer what a playerbase wants so in reality the playerbase is to blame for the current state of mmorpgs.

     

    Endless quest grinding/running errands for NPC's is soooo old school....

     

    The article writer is pretty clueless as to why many of us dislike ESO.  It is a tired quest grinder that doesn't offer any feeling of accomplishment as there is no risk.  The combat is odd in that it is sorta tab target.  Mobs hit you with melee weapons from distances that the weapon clearly can't reach.  There is distinct lack of freedom from being told what to do.  You are pretty much going to be doing and killing and running where that NPC wants you to.  Loot is uninspired and not unique.  There is not much reason to farm a certain type of mob.  No rare spawns that drop good open world loot.  No freedom to screw up faction.  The world looks washed out and there is no danger PvE or PvP.  No consequences for PvP. 

     

    I could go on and I don't even care about bugs it is all design decisions that I dislike about this game.

  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEPosts: 1,663Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by reggiemw


    Great article. I Find it rather sad to see how people really are. Even more sad its how they dont even realize themselves.

    I myself am an old school mmorpger and even though at the time the improvements of wow were great i've gradually seen mmorpg's after wow totally destroy what mmorpgs should be about. About community. About immersion.

    Ive hated mmorpgs the last 10 years, anything after wow, except lotro which was pretty good. Anything else was superficial garbage without any immersion or character attachement/depth.

    Yes eso is one of the best mmorpgs released in the last 10 years. Those who opose simply are to ignorant to realize but then again they are to ignorant to realize how ignorant they are so thats no surpise. Sheep will Always follow sheep but thats why they are sheep.

    Its a disgrace how even game sites give a low review to a game like elder scrolls online. The approach to its final score is totally unfair.

    I find eso a perfect match between modern and old school mmorpgs and they made a very good descision on moving crap like the global auction house which ruines any sense of accomplisment and any reason to even bother with crafting

    The hate train only goes to show how sad the current state of the mmorpg market is and lets not forget that companies Always offer what a playerbase wants so in reality the playerbase is to blame for the current state of mmorpgs.

     

    Best mmo released in 10 years and any who oppose are ignorant.  

    Everyone who dislikes the game is a sheep.  

    Every mmo after wow and LoTR is garbage.  

    Developers aren't responsible for the state of games, it's the players fault.  

     

    The ESO community must be proud to count you among its members.  

     

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Raquis
    I agree,I have never seen so mush negativity towards a game nevermind a good game I think its a hidden agenda by other developers.
    You missed the enormous "hate" when SW:TOR released. Talk about bitter vets (SW:G) on a rampage. This pales by comparison :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by OldMMOGamer
    next up for nerd rage WILDSTAR
    I wonder. No well known IP or other games to compare it to (though the "WoW clone" comments get old). It stands on its own.

    [EDIT]
    PS: 274 posts. Well done, MMORPG :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    In the example you quoted, that too is wrong. But it's the idea of libeling someone personally because they posted an opinion on intellectual property that is wrong. It doesn't matter who's doing it.
    And here we have it. "Opinions can be wrong." I read it on the internet, so it must be true.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • uidLuc1duidLuc1d Marietta, GAPosts: 190Member Uncommon
    I am enjoying the game.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    In the example you quoted, that too is wrong. But it's the idea of libeling someone personally because they posted an opinion on intellectual property that is wrong. It doesn't matter who's doing it.
    And here we have it. "Opinions can be wrong." I read it on the internet, so it must be true.

    He said that libeling someone is wrong. Which is of course subjective. But he didn't say opinions are wrong, he said libeling someone else is wrong.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    In the example you quoted, that too is wrong. But it's the idea of libeling someone personally because they posted an opinion on intellectual property that is wrong. It doesn't matter who's doing it.

    And here we have it. "Opinions can be wrong." I read it on the internet, so it must be true.

     

    You do realize that Libel is not an opinion right?

  • MeridiasBeaconMeridiasBeacon baltimore, MDPosts: 86Member
    Well, at least Cyrodiil works as intended. Can't say the same for SWTOR though.
  • d0e1owd0e1ow New Orleans, LAPosts: 7Member

    I made an account just to comment on this article.

    Directed right at the author here: you claim that the game wants to foster a community and such, yet the only way in which you can affirm your view is in the fact that the game doesn't have an Auction House.

    You can't point to one other feature that "fosters a community". Why? Because there isn't one. They couldn't get the most BASIC element of this genre down: GROUPING. It's a mess to try and quest with someone or go back and help a friend. You can't even run a dungeon multiple times while leveling up and have it be of any benefit to you. It's a mess.

    The game is awful. It's a step back in every way for the genre. Everything it does, another game does better in SPADES.

    I'm sorry, but if their definition of building a community is inconveniencing players instead of putting out content that encourages people to play together then they are going to have a bad time. People have really valid complaints about this game. It was a scam.

    image
  • MalaboogaMalabooga aadadaPosts: 1,554Member Uncommon

    Its good thing author realized he has been brainwashed, its a path to healing.

    Next step is to realize ESO is part of that brainwashing. Guess it will get there.

    Take the blue pill man! (or was it red lol)

     
  • HaldursonHaldurson Spring Valley, NYPosts: 29Member Uncommon

    The game is new and with almost no exceptions, MMOs traditionally launch with lots of problems.  That's not unusual.  But games must be reviewed as close to launch as possible,, and that's the breaks.  People want to find out about the game BEFORE launch, not 3 or 6 months after.  By then, if they haven't subscribed, they likely aren't interested, no matter if all of the things they read about or saw in early versions have been fixed.  But as I said, that's the way it works, and there's little that can be done about that other than the occasional re-review that you'll see on some sites.  Is it fair?  Yes.  But it doesn't serve people who would have been potential customers who may not have liked what they saw in beta, or at launch, but might have had a completely different opinion had the game only launched in the 6-month after launch state.  Some people do decide to check the game out 6 months later, but most don't, because there isn't that pre-launch excitement attached to the game anymore.  I'm not complaining, I'm just stating the obvious.

    ESO does have flaws, and it's fair to point them out.  The main thing I have issue with is that very few reviews actually treat a game as it is, and instead decide to review some hypothetical game that their preconceptions tell them that the game ought to be.  For example, ESO lacks a global AH.  Is that a flaw or not?  If as part of your review you say 'well, every other modern MMO has an AH, so not having one is a flaw.'.  That's NOT a fair way to look at it.  A fair way would be to look at the game as its own entity, and decide if that actually breaks the economy, or does the economy work?  To hell with what other games do, ESO is not other games, so look at it as ESO, not just another MMO.

    Another example: Zenimax decided to make solo questing more dynamic by having the world actually change based on player decisions.  The cost of that decision is that two people, grouped or not, may not see each other after a certain step in a quest, because one player did one thing, and the other player chose something else.   I've seen a few reviewers harp on this like it's a horrible crime against humanity.  But wait!  Aren't those two features (dynamic worlds that can change,  and meaningful player decisions) what so many MMO players have been begging and begging and begging for for YEARS.  Be careful what you ask for because someone may actually give it to you.  The truth is, if you are grouping on a solo quest, and you don't coordinate, yes you may end up separated for a time from your group-mates.   But the alternative would be less dynamic quests and a less dynamic world.  So instead of labeling this a negative, simply because it doesn't do things the way WoW or other games do, shouldn't it be evaluated on its own merits?  Isn't the experience of a solo player much improved because of this (heck, it's a solo quest, so shouldn't that take precedence over evaluating whether solo content works for non-solo players?  It's the way most players play solo content, after all.  It's fine to comment and call to attention that this could cause a problem for non-solo players.  But calling  it a major flaw, when content works better when it's played as intended, is wrong.

    My main point is that it's never fair to base a review on what other games do and subtract points for everything that it does differently from other games (whether you are talking about other MMOs or other Elder Scrolls games).  The only fair way of reviewing a game is to look at it, and decide if its fun, and if so, how fun is it?  Did you enjoy questing?  Did you enjoy PVP?  Don't look at it and say 'wll it's different'.  Instead, look at it and say 'ok this is ESO, is it any good?  And evaluate it on its own qualities, and not based on the qualities of other games.  After all, would it be fair for someone to complain in a review that chess's castles can move and no other game allows castles to move, therefor Chess is a horrible game.

     
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Algo Star SystemPosts: 651Member Uncommon
    In other news, Firefall by Red5 isn't a POS, it's all just unwarranted hate.  That should be the next article.
  • slicknslim88slicknslim88 Norfolk, VAPosts: 394Member
    This article is just pre-emptive damage control.  When they release the full review of the game where they sing it praises, they can point this article out to the masses who are lashing out at them and say "You all are just ignorant and should be happy with it!"
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    In the example you quoted, that too is wrong. But it's the idea of libeling someone personally because they posted an opinion on intellectual property that is wrong. It doesn't matter who's doing it.
    And here we have it. "Opinions can be wrong." I read it on the internet, so it must be true.
    You do realize that Libel is not an opinion right?
    Yea. My apologies for reading that totally wrong. BeansnBread showed me the light :)

    I thought that was strange coming from you, but I just could not get the subject of your sentence right.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

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