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[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: ESO Hate

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  • kabitoshinkabitoshin Posts: 758Member Uncommon

    Most the hate comes from fanboys of another game, trolls that just want attention, or people that are tired of the theme-park formula. Ever since I've joined this site there have been hate wars on every big budgeted MMO, and very rarely does someone come up with constructive criticism. I think RPG has reached its limit  but seems to be the only type of MMO to take a risk on making, very few developers branch out to make a different genre of MMO. This video shows good reasons why devs make the same thing rather than try to make something "innovative" .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxhs-GLE29Q

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Ryan Getchell
    I’ve said it before an MMO is supposed to be designed from end to start; we spend most of our time at the “end game” than we do at the start game. However, because content that we feel is supposed to be in the game (because they experienced it elsewhere) wasn’t, we give the game a worse score. Is that really how we’re supposed to review our games? By comparing them to others? I thought a review was supposed to be solely based on our experience in the game itself not our experience in another title that shares nothing than the genre. But I digress.
    I have troubles with this paragraph.
    1) End Game. So the journey should be compromised to appease the "end-gamers", of which I am not one? If an MMO wants to focus on end game, I am all for it. BUT, have NO LEVELING involved. It slows down the end-gamers and frustrates the adventurers with sub-par content.

    2) Comparing. They made it Elder Scrolls to bring in fans of the IP. Pure money grab. Now, you want us to NOT compare them? What a crock of crap. I've said this before and will say it again, had this MMO NOT been labeled "Elder Scrolls", it would have been a decent game. Instead, they added that label and failed, in my opinion, to create an "Elder Scrolls Experience."

    For those players that are enjoying the game, play on! I am glad you found a great game to spend your time in. I am envious :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    The $60 game is hurting the gaming industry. Even Cliffy B says that. Everything in this industry is sky rocketing, budgets, salaries, graphics, animations, yet they're still charging $60. How long has it been at that price? Shoot, I think that even in the 90s games were selling for $50 bucks!!!!! What's that with inflation? Math people? Please? Damn, it's got to be at least $75.
    About 9 years. The price jumped from about $30 to $60 with XBox 360's introduction in November of 2005. Consoles jumped the price up so they could sell their consoles cheaper and make more money on the games sold. Console is a one time purchase. Games can be repeatedly purchased for a much longer time frame. PC games picked right up on that increase.

    The worst part is that games did not get better. They got simpler, easier, and more "achievement based."

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • Sajman01Sajman01 Rochester, NYPosts: 204Member

    Disagree with most of  the article.

     

    These are games; they're not jobs. If I can't complete something in my preferred play style in a reasonable amount of time, it is too hard....for me. Now it might be fine for you and certainly the game is under no obligation to change just to meet my tastes. But I'm under no obligation to play a game that doesn't meet my satisfaction especially with literally 1000s of titles on the market today.

     

    Negative feedback is the only good feedback. Positive feedback is worthless.

     

    If the game was truly a great game, you wouldn't need to sit here and defend it. You would let the game speak for itself and if someone was on the outside 'OH WELL'. But you have to defend it because there is so much negative feedback. It's battered housewife syndrome. Positive feedback is almost always full of lies and boasting, it can't be trusted.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon

    Granted you said it was fantastic (in your eyes) as a subjective opinion but my opinion is the exact opposite.

     

    I think the game is terrible (in my eyes), it does nothing innovative to push the genre further.  It's reliance on age-old questing progression at the exclusion of all other forms of progression is narrow minded.  It's inability to capture the soul of what made Elder Scrolls games great for the sake of higher population numbers is a horrible game design.  Things like no auction houses, no housing, linear game play and reliance on phasing while excluding grouping functionality is flawed game design.  On top of all its massive shortcomings as a proper MMO it asks for subscription.  The single greatest no-no in modern MMO game history. In short the game is average at best and teetering on bad at worst.  

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • greatskysgreatskys marlboroughPosts: 449Member

    I think its a lot to do with how Zenimax has handled things . They have seemed greedy . Firstly they locked off the imperial race to a delux edition and released with a cash shop as well as a subscription . They have have face criticism over the price of a mount using in game currency so people are enticed to use the cash shop . Personally though it didn't take me that long to get one about 3 weeks which is fair enough in my view . 

     

    I think the big problem is its as subscription based game and people expect more as such . Even though I enjoy it some of the design choices in the game leave me cold . The public dungeons are awful . They are full of people farming mobs that spawn very quickly . There is no sense of any challenge to them because anything that pops its head up is killed within seconds . Even the bosses who are often camped by 10-20 people. These would have been fun and challenging if someone had had the forsight  to see this would happen and made the public dungeons not so public .

     

    The bugs while they arn't a gamebreaker for me as I expect them in an mmo that has just been released are an annoyance to say the least . The lack of an auction house in favor of trade guilds sounds good in theory but in practice its burdensome . 

    Zenimax also have made the mistake of banning legitimate account in large numbers while apologies are offered theres is no instant offer to reimburse people for the time there accounts have been suspended . 

     

    I think at the end of the day I am asking myself what does this do that I can't get elsewhere with a different business model . I brought the Elder Scrolls because I prefer subscription based games and already I'm starting to see the cracks in it . I will probably subscribe for another month so as to get through to level 50 . Theres fun to be had but no real sense of immersion . 

     

    Then theres the argument why play this when you can play Skyrim for a one off payment . Being able to play with a friend in and Elder Scrolls game is nice but a lot of time you feel like your playing a single player game with MMO elements .  As such I think they should have gone for a buy to play model . It would have dragged me in I think . I would have brought DLCS but as it is because they have been greedy all they will get our of me is the box price and a further months sub so I can get to level 50 . Given I'm enjoying it I think I will have got my moneys worth . But like GW2 and TSW I would have far prefered the option to play it when I wanted without subscribing when and release some interesting content in a DLC , 

     

    It should have been buy to play and I hope as with Funcom they realize the mistake they have made and offer it as a buy to play game at somepoint within the coming year of its release . Sadly I suspect they will go for a free to play model . Zenimax needed to have a smooth release because without it this backlash was inevitable . 

     
    After this I am just going to view any game that releases with a subscription model as little more than an early access beta before its real release under either a free to play or buy to play model . 
     
  • NephelaiNephelai SydneyPosts: 182Member Uncommon
    The problem is at this stage of the 10+ year life of MMO's there are literally millions of gamers looking for the next major innovation step. For whatever reason this just hasn't been coming and in fact releases of late are either essentially the same or a step back in some way. In general, when something new is released people want it to be better and when it has aspects that are a backwards step its going to get brutalised. World zoning isn't a step forward, Guild auction houses isn't a step forward, awkward UI / interface isn't a step forward, poor animation isn't a step forward and it goes on. It isn't hate its just what it is and it could of been better.
  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Somewhere, NCPosts: 1,582Member Uncommon

    It's really very simple.

     

    The reason for the Elder Scroll's hate is because for everyone who's been playing MMORPGs for more than a few years, this is the same song and dance we've seen a hundred times. It's the same shit with a different coat of paint. The genre is stagnant exactly because of games like ESO.

     

    We demand better.

    <3

  • BrizlynBrizlyn Ladera Ranch, CAPosts: 70Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Brizlyn
    Originally posted by Bigboo
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    For me it was not hate, I really enjoyed the game. I didnt like the direction a few things went. To much phasing made teaming a pain. I play with my wife and about 25% of the time she was this little arrow I could follow but not help in any way. Then instanced parts of the game you could not work together on because ZM wanted you to feel epic by doing it solo. Not really why I play and took me out of the fun by having to ask my wife again and again, can you see me? Do you see this node? Guess thats phased just for me =- If I wanted to play a solo game I would have played Morrowind again. If they change this... I just may buy the game. Im a huge TES fan its just that I dont play MMOs to solo.
     
     

    This!! ^

    ESO is a SP game, only time you have the feeling of an MMO is in public dungeons together with The Bot Brothers.

    "I once was an adventurer like you, but then I got an Arrow above my head!"

    Are you guys not aware of the travel to player feature that's been in since launch (or earlier?) I play with the wife as well and if we are ever in a different instance we just pop the party window open, right click, travel to player...done!  Is it that hard to learn? Literally takes 10 seconds.

    Fix spelling
     

    Not talking about being in a different shard. If you dont know what phasing is pls google it.

    Are you seriously complaining about the 1% of the game where it makes you go solo?  WOW, really?  You people crack me up.  To each his own, but to make a point of such a small element in the game is telling the rest of your opinion.

     

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,494Member Uncommon

    ESO hate? It's pointless.

    Hating a game is misdirected anger - like hating a glitchy keyboard, it's an inanimate object, hating it is pointless, it's just a waste of your energy, it accomplishes nothing, it won't change the keyboards "mind" or teach it a lesson.

    Same goes for games - hating games is completely pointless, the games didn't program themselves - they are a direct product of the dev studios behind them.

    So lets place the anger and disappointment where it makes sense - the game developer.

    I am just disappointed with Zenimax - their lack of planning and ability to run a major online game is a "shameful display", to use a bit from Angry Joe's video.

    ESO can be fixed, the game is not at fault - Zenimax is the root of the problem - they have to get their crap together and fix their product, it all starts with them.

    My 2c.

  • HordequesterHordequester Fort Wayne, INPosts: 20Member
    Originally posted by Siug

    ESO must be the worst MMO evan because I see people everywhere in game. Towns are full of them and even in the remotest places you always see some.

    Ok seriously, there are bugs and flaws but which MMO doesn't? While hating a video game is plain weird anyway but seeing the same names in every thread bashing and trolling ESO is just stupid.

    It's new..of course it's full of people. That doesn't really prove anything since they won't be around for long.

  • ZyxxZyxx SlagelsePosts: 48Member

    Haters gonna hate.. And ESO is an easy target for them to get some drama goin.. Sad really..

    It's an awesome game with so much to do! Im vet 10 and at the last zones in Ebonhear pact, and I've done ALL quest's. So it's doable!

     

    I've spent more than 300+ hours in the game already, and can't wait to spent more time ingame! So to all the who aren't satisfied.. Maybe you should make a MMO that suits only you, so you can play alone, cause no one else gives a crap.

  • PanzerbasePanzerbase Chicago, ILPosts: 423Member
    Originally posted by FezVizzini
    Originally posted by remyburke
    ESO exceeded every expectation I had going into it. It's all around amazing IMO.

    Exceeded mine as well. I thought it would be just a bit crap but it turned out to be really shitty.

    Excellent! +1000

  • HordequesterHordequester Fort Wayne, INPosts: 20Member
    Originally posted by Muppetier
    Shame it is no longer possible to express an honest opinion of any new game without being labelled a fanboy or hater. Some posts might actually reflect the authors view.

    Not to mention if your opinion offends the admins on this site, they'll probably ban you.

  • BillSussmanBillSussman MelbournePosts: 42Member
    I agree with some of the things here. However i just think if the end game was any good and PVP wasn't so painfully boring I would keep my subscription. PVP is actually one of the worst PVP in an MMORPG I've come across personally. 0 satisfaction for doing anything in CRYODIIL. The PVE experience is great. However it isn't worth the SUB fee if you ask me. I canceled my SUB fee a week and a bit before my 30 days is up with no regret whatsoever.
  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEPosts: 1,663Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hordequester
    Originally posted by Siug

    ESO must be the worst MMO evan because I see people everywhere in game. Towns are full of them and even in the remotest places you always see some.

    Ok seriously, there are bugs and flaws but which MMO doesn't? While hating a video game is plain weird anyway but seeing the same names in every thread bashing and trolling ESO is just stupid.

    It's new..of course it's full of people. That doesn't really prove anything since they won't be around for long.

    It would be an amazing feat for a game played on a single server to look empty.  

  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 876Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SBFord

    Sure the game has some flaws, grouping is a bit difficult to get at times, the guild store is extremely frustrating as the UI is very difficult to use. However without our feedback it will not improve. As I said these are tactics that aren’t used anymore, and haven’t been for many, many years. We as a community need to help build them as they are what we need in MMOs. We need to step away from the Spoon Feeding games that provide the players with the ease of access to everything. We need to bring back the core philosophy of what an MMO is supposed to be about, community, engaging other players, and shared exploration of systems. We’re playing a game with millions of other people, why are so many MMOs being designed to keep us from enjoying each other?

    That feedback was given several times during the Beta of the game.   That feedback is in the many MMO games that have come before it over the past decade and beyond in lessons learned. 

     

    Stop bullshitting with your coverup for what is otherwise amateur mistakes made by self-proclaimed "industry veterans" who should know better.     The game's hate is not coming from people having been, or wanting to be, fed by silver spoons and good gracing things; the hate comes from people knowing damned well better and being pissed off that information was provided to the developers and they turned deaf ear to the feedback.

     

    A major part of any MMORPG is the ability to play with friends, and the game really 'screwed the pooch' on that one with it's wacked out phasing system and quests that neither share credit nor progress.    The duping bug also seems foul on their part seeing as how it was an issue caused by their engine build, their system, and their "extensive testing", which seems to be lacking of evidence to back it up. The game also feels like a rushed job* to get to the market quickly and cash out**.   

     

    Orange:  You're really asking this about The Elder Scrolls Online?  Really?   The game's entire questing structure from level 1 through Vet level 10 is set in such a way that it's designed to split, separate, and sever any ties to your friends and fellow gamers as you might have.     I'd like to point out a game like Guild Wars 2 -launched 2012- that has such a group friendly design in it's questing structure as well as most every other aspect of the game.   Wildstar -to launch in June- has shared credit if on the same quest with party members and even shared tagging when it comes to enemy mobs (so Jill, helping Jack kill a creature named "Hill", will get credit for the kill as well since she's on the same quest....this is not true in TESO and she'll have to kill Hill again by herself in order to get credit for the kill because Jack disappeared through phasing).

     

     

     

    *"Rushed job" is a look at the game being officially announced in May 2012, with work originally starting in 2007.   Comparitively,  Wildstar was announced in August 2011, with work originally starting in 2005.   And Wildstar is launching after Elder Scrolls Online by 2 months.  The term "when it's ready" only applies to one of these two games.....

     

     

    **Charging an extra $20 for the Imperial Edition that provided a cash-wall blocked race as well as a horse that with the design of the game's world and questing structure has been touted by many reviewers as an "absolute must" within the game.  The horse, alternatively, can be purchased with in-game currency of roughly 15,000 gold (enemies noted at dropping only 1 gold per).


  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common

    @ Writer

    Using your logic under "The ESO Approach" you should be playing Funcom's TSW. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    We are ESO haters, really?

  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Barrow, AKPosts: 817Member

    Ummmm,

    This entire post is just a black eye for MMORPG.COM.

    Sensible people only have to watch just a couple of the more frequented youtube reviewers (Angry joe or Francis, and by Francis his actual review he posted later not his fake ranting review). The video's do not lie, they might call more attention to certain "bugs" or issues, but those problems exist and are in the game after its release.

    MMORPG.COM needs to be.... no has to be more objective than this, yes having an editorial, or opinion piece is how to "Foxnews" your website now, but you need to keep it in balance and have the counter argument with it. There needs to be a piece done from MMORPG.COM from the opposite perspective.

    Also, this article mentions difficulty, in nowhere in all my playtime of TESO did i ever feel challenged with one exception, i was challenged attempting to overcome the phasing that kept me from enjoying a grp with a friend to quest with.

    Zenimax needed to take out things but leave them in as option you turn on, minimap ? default = off but you can turn it on, Auction House ? well no one is "forced" to use one, but if its in the game, you will see if its something hated or despised. The things Zenimax forced on the player base should have been optional, not mandatory, or nonexistent.

    I dunno but the fact that the developers felt they had to change certain aspects of the game just because they felt it needed to be different from WoW just smacks of there own hubris. Leaving out quality of life enhancements, but insisting on one of the more hated aspects of WoW (forced questing for advancement) is flat out odd.

    Can't please em all, and you never should try to, but the decisions made by the TESO devs just smells bad.

    Lolipops !

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    ESO hate? It's pointless.

    Hating a game is misdirected anger - like hating a glitchy keyboard, it's an inanimate object, hating it is pointless, it's just a waste of your energy, it accomplishes nothing, it won't change the keyboards "mind" or teach it a lesson.

    Same goes for games - hating games is completely pointless, the games didn't program themselves - they are a direct product of the dev studios behind them.

    So lets place the anger and disappointment where it makes sense - the game developer.

    I am just disappointed with Zenimax - their lack of planning and ability to run a major online game is a "shameful display", to use a bit from Angry Joe's video.

    ESO can be fixed, the game is not at fault - Zenimax is the root of the problem - they have to get their crap together and fix their product, it all starts with them.

    My 2c.

    This column is one of the biggest "Shameful Displays" I have seen on this site. A columnist calling people who have issues with ESO, haters is ridiculous. Granted, it's not the worst word that can be used, but it's still personal, it's still Ad-Hom and it's meant to be offensive. And most of the people being called haters really aren't. They just have beefs with the game.

     

  • R3d.GallowsR3d.Gallows CarcossaPosts: 24Member
    So being a paying MMO customer should be charity work for the dev studio, not entertainment for me? 
  • kp695304kp695304 coquitlam, BCPosts: 23Member Uncommon
    The haters may not be real people with guenuine opinions. Professional trolls acting with the intent of sowing discord and disastisfaction among competeing businesses. Degenerates who enjoy any percieves excuse to attack something others enjoy.  Folk of low character who follow others into hatred just because it makes them feel better about themselves. Then those who have real grievances and strongly believe they are justified to make a overly excessive response. Keeping these possibilites in mind make it much easier to ignore the flaming scum ridden trolls that feed on the nets undercurrent of hatred. Screw them all!
  • gelraengelraen Vancouver, BCPosts: 227Member
    Originally posted by kabitoshin

    Most the hate comes from fanboys of another game, trolls that just want attention, or people that are tired of the theme-park formula. Ever since I've joined this site there have been hate wars on every big budgeted MMO, and very rarely does someone come up with constructive criticism. I think RPG has reached its limit  but seems to be the only type of MMO to take a risk on making, very few developers branch out to make a different genre of MMO. This video shows good reasons why devs make the same thing rather than try to make something "innovative" .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxhs-GLE29Q

    Nice reply, kabitoshin, it's one of the only posts in this whole hate filled thread worth reading.  So deluded, some of these people, that their holy opinions are the final word on the subject.  

  • WolfsheadWolfshead HallsbergPosts: 190Member Uncommon

    You say we have got spoon feed with how easy thing can be and i would like to blame blizzard for as much the have add new idea the have also destroy mmo branch with do thing way to easy get thing like epic and make quest no brain at all and so on.

    You hate ESO well Ryan news flash the game have not been out for month and you expect everything in from start like all the other older mmo already have serious are you live in dreamworld i reminder WoW back in classic did not even have any raid content for 6 month after it went live people was just sit around do nothing and you think ESO lack content no mmo is complete finish so why do even take it up serious you should know better if you have play mmo for while now.

    How about you those of us that love game just like Darkcrystal wrote but i guess that would not make any good story for even if game have problem the are those of us that still love for we know at the end of day those problem will be fix.

    Even WildStar will have problem when it come out even if people think it will be best mmo out but after been in beta i not so impress with it go live in few week and still DC problem, interface bug, quest bug, lag issues just to name few problem at least ESO beta was a lot better then WildStar are atm.

  • GanksinatraGanksinatra Salem, ORPosts: 354Member Uncommon
    Waaaaaah the game isn't perfect, so it's garbage. Waaaaaah it wasn't exactly what I wanted it to be so it's garbage. I don't care for the music of Nirvana. Does that make them garbage? We MMO players will end up being the death of this genre. Instead of acting like an adult and saying "Okay, this game isn't for me, and that's okay", instead we get pages and pages of complaints about crap only a handful of people even care about, making it sound as though they just released Atari ET 2.0. Grow up and move along. For every one of you claiming the game is garbage, there are 10 in game enjoying it, so your argument is invalid.
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