Big live open city, in big live open world, without loading screens. The problem is not in technology. Just you play broken games in broken worlds and think it is normal. It is your problem
And in fact you can play this game on Core 2 Duo, 2 GHz, and GeForce 9600 - my old computer
Just what I wanted to post
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Cities like that look good as a SS but when it comes down to it, they are useless fluff and wasted dev time. How often do you run around a city for hours exploring? Maybe a little bit and only once.
I suppose if most of the content was centered on being around town then something like this might be ok but for what we play today, cities like that are a waste.
OP and what would you do in such a big city in a MMO?
Walk around and look at houses?
Unless the gameplay involved breaking into homes to steal, how many players would be interested in just roaming around a big city for no purpose?
You can do that in RL - go walk around suburbs, downtown, at least you get some exercise.
In game - building a huge city must have some gameplay purpose... what is it?
One I personally think it would be great.
The problem is how most Devs veiw and develop MMO's. They see them as either dungeon crawls or as themed outdoor (dungeon) crawls.
I cant tell you have many great games of AD&D I had in large cities. It just requires different thinking, beyond lets loot building. They almost all require a shift of focus off of combat and to subterfuge and intrigue and diplomacy and stealth and coercion and seduction and I could go on.
Sure combat can, does, and should play a part. But it would be great if they could and depth to MMO's.
Imagine two, three, or many five different rival merchant factions who are waging a clandestine cold war against each other. Using criminal elements to intimidate and control areas of the city at night and bribing city guards and officials to control territories by the day. Players could work for or against anyone of those elements and their underlings.
And thats just one example: What if you threw some lycanthropes into the mix? You could have all these factions and encounters working for, against, and parallel to each other. What about some court intrigues?
You cant do something like that in a small city.
It would have to be treated as a zone in itself. But not like a dungeon zone, this would (should) be going on in the players major city. Imagine you selling some vender trash just to see two groups of players breaking out into some PvP, or maybe beating up the vender you were just talking too.
Hell I can see that city zone being broken into three to four levels. Street encounters and movement, rooftop encounters and movement, building interior encounters, understreet and or sewer encounters and movement. And that picture would be about the perfect size.
Not to mention immersion. The cities that they call cities are nothing more than a small village. Boring and populated by mostly quest givers, trainers, and venders.
Only cities that felt some-what like a city was Altdorf in WAR, Stormwind in WoW isnt half-bad. And for that matter now that I think about it the destroyed City of Praag in WAR felt somewhat city-like too, better than most games for sure.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
ROFL, are you really asking this question or are you joking? I've said it before and I'll say it again until the day I die it seems, a good community MMO where getting groups is no problem, you won't give a damn how the cities looks like since you'll be busy having fun killing stuff. If I'd want nice cities to view at I'll play Sim City, Anno 2070 or my personal favourite Cities XL
Killing isn't remotely what makes an MMO complete. The fact that you're conditioned to think so black and white is astonishing if not shocking. An MMO is about depth, and one of the things I'm amazed about is how well the world is crafted.
An MMO is not "about anything". They are just entertainment products, and they are what players make them out to me.
For example, i play them as solo SP game with some online features ..... who says I cannot use a MMO like that?
OP and what would you do in such a big city in a MMO?
Walk around and look at houses?
Unless the gameplay involved breaking into homes to steal, how many players would be interested in just roaming around a big city for no purpose?
You can do that in RL - go walk around suburbs, downtown, at least you get some exercise.
In game - building a huge city must have some gameplay purpose... what is it?
This is the reason right here. Big Cities aren't wanted, and would annoy players more then thrill them. It might be nice to have a vista overlooking a large city, but actually walking through one is boring. The first Everquest had a huge world, it was huge because it took you hours to cross it, and that's if you knew where you were going. Its hard to think of, but I used to spend most of my game time just traveling. That not acceptable in MMOs anymore, travel needs to be quick or even instantaneous. Get you to the action and the fun stuff. And when that occurs the world shrinks because you need to filler or fluff in between. If anyone has tried Wildstar, its exacatly like this. It takes you 1-2 minutes to move one from one quest hub to the next, and less time to reach the spot where you need to complete a quest.
ROFL, are you really asking this question or are you joking? I've said it before and I'll say it again until the day I die it seems, a good community MMO where getting groups is no problem, you won't give a damn how the cities looks like since you'll be busy having fun killing stuff. If I'd want nice cities to view at I'll play Sim City, Anno 2070 or my personal favourite Cities XL
Killing isn't remotely what makes an MMO complete. The fact that you're conditioned to think so black and white is astonishing if not shocking. An MMO is about depth, and one of the things I'm amazed about is how well the world is crafted.
An MMO is not "about anything". They are just entertainment products, and they are what players make them out to me.
For example, i play them as solo SP game with some online features ..... who says I cannot use a MMO like that?
Yeah because no one asks you why you play MMO's. Oh wait they do all the time because it's obvious MMO's are about something that being massively multiplayer and your playing them as solo single player games. It's a contradiction to the core of the genre. The entire premise is massively multiplayer. You have to completely ignore what makes the entire MMO genre unique in order to play a single player MMO.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
OP and what would you do in such a big city in a MMO?
Walk around and look at houses?
Unless the gameplay involved breaking into homes to steal, how many players would be interested in just roaming around a big city for no purpose?
You can do that in RL - go walk around suburbs, downtown, at least you get some exercise.
In game - building a huge city must have some gameplay purpose... what is it?
This is the reason right here. Big Cities aren't wanted, and would annoy players more then thrill them. It might be nice to have a vista overlooking a large city, but actually walking through one is boring. The first Everquest had a huge world, it was huge because it took you hours to cross it, and that's if you knew where you were going. Its hard to think of, but I used to spend most of my game time just traveling. That not acceptable in MMOs anymore, travel needs to be quick or even instantaneous. Get you to the action and the fun stuff. And when that occurs the world shrinks because you need to filler or fluff in between. If anyone has tried Wildstar, its exacatly like this. It takes you 1-2 minutes to move one from one quest hub to the next, and less time to reach the spot where you need to complete a quest.
You can do the same thing you do in any other game. The story just changes. City of Heroes was largely taking place in a huge zone modern city. Still was wandering creeps, gangs, freaks or whatever. You could go for a secret societies, thief and assassin guilds, political problems, religious wackos and cults, sewer monsters. Whatever your imagination takes you. You just have to think outside of the box.
But this is why we're feed the same stuff because people have been condition over the past decade to think every game has to be some sort of fantasy vertical questhub themepark game or how can it possibily work.
OP and what would you do in such a big city in a MMO?
Walk around and look at houses?
Unless the gameplay involved breaking into homes to steal, how many players would be interested in just roaming around a big city for no purpose?
You can do that in RL - go walk around suburbs, downtown, at least you get some exercise.
In game - building a huge city must have some gameplay purpose... what is it?
This is the reason right here. Big Cities aren't wanted, and would annoy players more then thrill them. It might be nice to have a vista overlooking a large city, but actually walking through one is boring. The first Everquest had a huge world, it was huge because it took you hours to cross it, and that's if you knew where you were going. Its hard to think of, but I used to spend most of my game time just traveling. That not acceptable in MMOs anymore, travel needs to be quick or even instantaneous. Get you to the action and the fun stuff. And when that occurs the world shrinks because you need to filler or fluff in between. If anyone has tried Wildstar, its exacatly like this. It takes you 1-2 minutes to move one from one quest hub to the next, and less time to reach the spot where you need to complete a quest.
You can do the same thing you do in any other game. The story just changes. City of Heroes was largely taking place in a huge zone modern city. Still was wandering creeps, gangs, freaks or whatever. You could go for a secret societies, thief and assassin guilds, political problems, religious wackos and cults, sewer monsters. Whatever your imagination takes you. You just have to think outside of the box.
But this is why we're feed the same stuff because people have been condition over the past decade to think every game has to be some sort of fantasy vertical questhub themepark game or how can it possibily work.
Man talk about no imagination at all...
What if we combined APB, City of Heroes and GTA.
You could have PVP gang control areas, slums, strip clubs, darts, bowling, car dealerships, clothing stores, player owned houses and vehicles, shopping malls, casinos, banks to rob, bars, golf courses, gyms, swimming pools, air ports, military bases, player made mission system... hell you could literally put in any modern day activity as a game mechanic. Then give everyone super powers and make the entire thing dynamic by having the ability to build and destroy things. Then throw in an alien invasion.
Walk around and look at houses? For shame.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
ROFL, are you really asking this question or are you joking? I've said it before and I'll say it again until the day I die it seems, a good community MMO where getting groups is no problem, you won't give a damn how the cities looks like since you'll be busy having fun killing stuff. If I'd want nice cities to view at I'll play Sim City, Anno 2070 or my personal favourite Cities XL
Killing isn't remotely what makes an MMO complete. The fact that you're conditioned to think so black and white is astonishing if not shocking. An MMO is about depth, and one of the things I'm amazed about is how well the world is crafted.
An MMO is not "about anything". They are just entertainment products, and they are what players make them out to me.
For example, i play them as solo SP game with some online features ..... who says I cannot use a MMO like that?
Yeah because no one asks you why you play MMO's. Oh wait they do all the time because it's obvious MMO's are about something that being massively multiplayer and your playing them as solo single player games. It's a contradiction to the core of the genre. The entire premise is massively multiplayer. You have to completely ignore what makes the entire MMO genre unique in order to play a single player MMO.
yeah .. so? MMO genre is not unique to me. They are just some other games sometimes i choose to play.
And what do you mean "no one ask me why i play MMOs". People here do all the time. In fact, I have a thread to answer.
You could have PVP gang control areas, slums, strip clubs, darts, bowling, car dealerships, clothing stores, player owned houses and vehicles, shopping malls, casinos, banks to rob, bars, golf courses, gyms, swimming pools, air ports, military bases, player made mission system... hell you could literally put in any modern day activity as a game mechanic. Then give everyone super powers and make the entire thing dynamic by having the ability to build and destroy things. Then throw in an alien invasion.
Which devs have the resources to implement all that? Don't tell you expect players to play pimps, life-guards, travel agents, sales rep in retail stores and so on.
Neverwinter started out with just a big city. I think DDO did too. Freeport and Qeynos in EQ2 were large if rather lifeless. I think that part of the problem with making a city environment 'believable' is that it needs to feel busy and populated. Neverwinter did a reasonable job in that regard, with lots of npcs going about their own business. But I guess there must be a cost for all those npc routines, and also rendering all that detail in addition to being able to handle large numbers of pcs in a relatively small area. No doubt a city can be a great setting for adventures, but to do it real justice would take a lot of work and I think most players would soon want to get outside the walls and explore.
the closest to this i found in GW2. Its the human city, Divinity's Reach. A city-state.
Now a better question would be, Why not be able to enter all those little houses, sleep in the beds and interact with all those things? well i wish that happened.
the closest to this i found in GW2. Its the human city, Divinity's Reach. A city-state.
Now a better question would be, Why not be able to enter all those little houses, sleep in the beds and interact with all those things? well i wish that happened.
Because that is not what their audience want to do?
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
See it is amazing, all fully 3D a big world they're making and it is something MMOs are missing today. I love the sense of exploration, being amazed by a world, feeling like I'm in a real world; the whole reason MMOs exist for me is to live somewhere else online. Like what is the point of making a game out of an MMO like LOTRO, SWTOR, WAR or even TESO did? Like no, I wanted to experience the world of Middle Earth, I didn't want a linear game, I wanted to just see the sights and that is why all these other MMOs failed too. Ironically Morrowind/Oblivion and Skyrim all delivered on worlds and TESO didn't......
Woah woah woah nice ignorance there! TESO has great cities and towns in it. No NOT like the minecraft one, but certainly at the least same as Skyrim and Oblivion. In fact, in Skyrim I hated the fact that someone tells me to go to some town or village, and IT IS MADE OF 3 BUILDINGS!? Even some of the MAIN "towns" are just few cottages.
At least in TESO I run all the time into bigger towns, there's a good deal of big towns in the game and smaller ones everywhere. How's this in most themeparks? Yep, they all have 3 building "towns" and maybe bigger main cities, but I've seen games like Rift that has basically none. Heck I thought that was actually one of the best parts of TESO, the world feels immersive and POPULATED like people actually lived there.
Glenumbra, Stormhaven, Rivenspire, all have big towns/cities and then smaller ones, cant wait to see the Redguard themed ones. My biggest complaint about Rift was the total lack of immersion since it lacked basically completely cities, and TESO is for sure in the other end, it has the best amount and well detailed, large towns of any themepark that I've played.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
OP and what would you do in such a big city in a MMO?
Walk around and look at houses?
Unless the gameplay involved breaking into homes to steal, how many players would be interested in just roaming around a big city for no purpose?
You can do that in RL - go walk around suburbs, downtown, at least you get some exercise.
In game - building a huge city must have some gameplay purpose... what is it?
Why should everything happen outside of cities? You can have hostile mobs in cities, you can have quests around town, you can have housing in towns, mini-games, pvp-arenas, not to mention lore and immersion demands towns, you can have sewers with all kinds of content, ofcourse the basic crafting/trading/vendors/bank/mail/blahblah tons of reasons for towns and cities.
The question is, why are towns in games under utilized? They always feel like they lack at least half of the stuff they could have.
ROFL, are you really asking this question or are you joking? I've said it before and I'll say it again until the day I die it seems, a good community MMO where getting groups is no problem, you won't give a damn how the cities looks like since you'll be busy having fun killing stuff. If I'd want nice cities to view at I'll play Sim City, Anno 2070 or my personal favourite Cities XL
Killing isn't remotely what makes an MMO complete. The fact that you're conditioned to think so black and white is astonishing if not shocking. An MMO is about depth, and one of the things I'm amazed about is how well the world is crafted.
An MMO is not "about anything". They are just entertainment products, and they are what players make them out to me.
For example, i play them as solo SP game with some online features ..... who says I cannot use a MMO like that?
Yeah because no one asks you why you play MMO's. Oh wait they do all the time because it's obvious MMO's are about something that being massively multiplayer and your playing them as solo single player games. It's a contradiction to the core of the genre. The entire premise is massively multiplayer. You have to completely ignore what makes the entire MMO genre unique in order to play a single player MMO.
A ton of people solo in mmorpgs, it's not playing any less the mmorpg than someone who groups up 100% of the time. It's not grouping-online. There's no rules how to play a massive game, many people come just for the huge world and persistent nature of the game, exploration, crafting, to take their time and immerse to the world, they do NOT have to be interested in grouping with you to validate their existence in the game.
GW2 Divinity's reach city got a lot of praise for is huge scale and design.
The Assassin's Creed series, Grand Theft Auto and even Watch Dogs has build an entire genre on the idea of exploring and doing stuff in huge cities.
EQ Landmark is exploring the idea so MMOs seem to be looking in this direction.
The problem will always be regulating who gets to build where and how much in a shared virtual environment because for every westeros there will be 2000 phalic towers.
ROFL, are you really asking this question or are you joking? I've said it before and I'll say it again until the day I die it seems, a good community MMO where getting groups is no problem, you won't give a damn how the cities looks like since you'll be busy having fun killing stuff. If I'd want nice cities to view at I'll play Sim City, Anno 2070 or my personal favourite Cities XL
Killing isn't remotely what makes an MMO complete. The fact that you're conditioned to think so black and white is astonishing if not shocking. An MMO is about depth, and one of the things I'm amazed about is how well the world is crafted.
An MMO is not "about anything". They are just entertainment products, and they are what players make them out to me.
For example, i play them as solo SP game with some online features ..... who says I cannot use a MMO like that?
Yeah because no one asks you why you play MMO's. Oh wait they do all the time because it's obvious MMO's are about something that being massively multiplayer and your playing them as solo single player games. It's a contradiction to the core of the genre. The entire premise is massively multiplayer. You have to completely ignore what makes the entire MMO genre unique in order to play a single player MMO.
A ton of people solo in mmorpgs, it's not playing any less the mmorpg than someone who groups up 100% of the time. It's not grouping-online. There's no rules how to play a massive game, many people come just for the huge world and persistent nature of the game, exploration, crafting, to take their time and immerse to the world, they do NOT have to be interested in grouping with you to validate their existence in the game.
That's true, but most of the worlds these days aren't persistent. They are becoming more and more instanced and phased (now).
OP and what would you do in such a big city in a MMO?
Walk around and look at houses?
Unless the gameplay involved breaking into homes to steal, how many players would be interested in just roaming around a big city for no purpose?
You can do that in RL - go walk around suburbs, downtown, at least you get some exercise.
In game - building a huge city must have some gameplay purpose... what is it?
Or just make the city a zone like any other zone outside the city? Have quests, monsters, bad guys, dungeons like sewers or mansions, job boards. Have some of the parts of the city be instanced player neighbor hoods. You can do so much with a large city in a mmo. Parts of the city can be contested for PvP and have it effect things like taxes and such. Guilds can fight each other for territory like gangs do in real life.
With how disconnected MMORPGs are with the social aspects these days, I'm surprised we still have physical auction houses. Why not just make it part of your UI
In my opinion, content for adventuring is far more important than esthetics and playable space in home bases or cities. Give me a dynamic dungeon over a city block any day.
In games, I much prefer elaborate natural terrains anyways. There is something awe inspiring about finding a precipice somewhere which overlooks a vast terrain of gorgeous flora and fauna.
Having said that, I do concede that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But we play to "play", not to just hang out.
you can make a large city like that have lots of content, do you know all the kinds of things that go on in a city? Mansions, sewers, and things like those can be dungeons and such, for example maybe a Haunted Mansion. Have territorial PvP against guilds like gang wars. Its not hard to take a few seconds to think of some ideas instead of just completely dismiss it like some people are doing. And I dont see why you still cant have those forests and other natural zones too outside the city.
Comments
Just what I wanted to post
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Cities like that look good as a SS but when it comes down to it, they are useless fluff and wasted dev time. How often do you run around a city for hours exploring? Maybe a little bit and only once.
I suppose if most of the content was centered on being around town then something like this might be ok but for what we play today, cities like that are a waste.
One I personally think it would be great.
The problem is how most Devs veiw and develop MMO's. They see them as either dungeon crawls or as themed outdoor (dungeon) crawls.
I cant tell you have many great games of AD&D I had in large cities. It just requires different thinking, beyond lets loot building. They almost all require a shift of focus off of combat and to subterfuge and intrigue and diplomacy and stealth and coercion and seduction and I could go on.
Sure combat can, does, and should play a part. But it would be great if they could and depth to MMO's.
Imagine two, three, or many five different rival merchant factions who are waging a clandestine cold war against each other. Using criminal elements to intimidate and control areas of the city at night and bribing city guards and officials to control territories by the day. Players could work for or against anyone of those elements and their underlings.
And thats just one example: What if you threw some lycanthropes into the mix? You could have all these factions and encounters working for, against, and parallel to each other. What about some court intrigues?
You cant do something like that in a small city.
It would have to be treated as a zone in itself. But not like a dungeon zone, this would (should) be going on in the players major city. Imagine you selling some vender trash just to see two groups of players breaking out into some PvP, or maybe beating up the vender you were just talking too.
Hell I can see that city zone being broken into three to four levels. Street encounters and movement, rooftop encounters and movement, building interior encounters, understreet and or sewer encounters and movement. And that picture would be about the perfect size.
Not to mention immersion. The cities that they call cities are nothing more than a small village. Boring and populated by mostly quest givers, trainers, and venders.
Only cities that felt some-what like a city was Altdorf in WAR, Stormwind in WoW isnt half-bad. And for that matter now that I think about it the destroyed City of Praag in WAR felt somewhat city-like too, better than most games for sure.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
An MMO is not "about anything". They are just entertainment products, and they are what players make them out to me.
For example, i play them as solo SP game with some online features ..... who says I cannot use a MMO like that?
This is the reason right here. Big Cities aren't wanted, and would annoy players more then thrill them. It might be nice to have a vista overlooking a large city, but actually walking through one is boring. The first Everquest had a huge world, it was huge because it took you hours to cross it, and that's if you knew where you were going. Its hard to think of, but I used to spend most of my game time just traveling. That not acceptable in MMOs anymore, travel needs to be quick or even instantaneous. Get you to the action and the fun stuff. And when that occurs the world shrinks because you need to filler or fluff in between. If anyone has tried Wildstar, its exacatly like this. It takes you 1-2 minutes to move one from one quest hub to the next, and less time to reach the spot where you need to complete a quest.
Yeah because no one asks you why you play MMO's. Oh wait they do all the time because it's obvious MMO's are about something that being massively multiplayer and your playing them as solo single player games. It's a contradiction to the core of the genre. The entire premise is massively multiplayer. You have to completely ignore what makes the entire MMO genre unique in order to play a single player MMO.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/You can do the same thing you do in any other game. The story just changes. City of Heroes was largely taking place in a huge zone modern city. Still was wandering creeps, gangs, freaks or whatever. You could go for a secret societies, thief and assassin guilds, political problems, religious wackos and cults, sewer monsters. Whatever your imagination takes you. You just have to think outside of the box.
But this is why we're feed the same stuff because people have been condition over the past decade to think every game has to be some sort of fantasy vertical questhub themepark game or how can it possibily work.
Man talk about no imagination at all...
What if we combined APB, City of Heroes and GTA.
You could have PVP gang control areas, slums, strip clubs, darts, bowling, car dealerships, clothing stores, player owned houses and vehicles, shopping malls, casinos, banks to rob, bars, golf courses, gyms, swimming pools, air ports, military bases, player made mission system... hell you could literally put in any modern day activity as a game mechanic. Then give everyone super powers and make the entire thing dynamic by having the ability to build and destroy things. Then throw in an alien invasion.
Walk around and look at houses? For shame.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/yeah .. so? MMO genre is not unique to me. They are just some other games sometimes i choose to play.
And what do you mean "no one ask me why i play MMOs". People here do all the time. In fact, I have a thread to answer.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5903519/thread/393247#5903519
Which devs have the resources to implement all that? Don't tell you expect players to play pimps, life-guards, travel agents, sales rep in retail stores and so on.
the closest to this i found in GW2. Its the human city, Divinity's Reach. A city-state.
Now a better question would be, Why not be able to enter all those little houses, sleep in the beds and interact with all those things? well i wish that happened.
Because that is not what their audience want to do?
Maybe you just dont know about them.
One of cities in Black Desert Online: http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G6EXTBrwUY
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Woah woah woah nice ignorance there! TESO has great cities and towns in it. No NOT like the minecraft one, but certainly at the least same as Skyrim and Oblivion. In fact, in Skyrim I hated the fact that someone tells me to go to some town or village, and IT IS MADE OF 3 BUILDINGS!? Even some of the MAIN "towns" are just few cottages.
At least in TESO I run all the time into bigger towns, there's a good deal of big towns in the game and smaller ones everywhere. How's this in most themeparks? Yep, they all have 3 building "towns" and maybe bigger main cities, but I've seen games like Rift that has basically none. Heck I thought that was actually one of the best parts of TESO, the world feels immersive and POPULATED like people actually lived there.
Glenumbra, Stormhaven, Rivenspire, all have big towns/cities and then smaller ones, cant wait to see the Redguard themed ones. My biggest complaint about Rift was the total lack of immersion since it lacked basically completely cities, and TESO is for sure in the other end, it has the best amount and well detailed, large towns of any themepark that I've played.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Why should everything happen outside of cities? You can have hostile mobs in cities, you can have quests around town, you can have housing in towns, mini-games, pvp-arenas, not to mention lore and immersion demands towns, you can have sewers with all kinds of content, ofcourse the basic crafting/trading/vendors/bank/mail/blahblah tons of reasons for towns and cities.
The question is, why are towns in games under utilized? They always feel like they lack at least half of the stuff they could have.
A ton of people solo in mmorpgs, it's not playing any less the mmorpg than someone who groups up 100% of the time. It's not grouping-online. There's no rules how to play a massive game, many people come just for the huge world and persistent nature of the game, exploration, crafting, to take their time and immerse to the world, they do NOT have to be interested in grouping with you to validate their existence in the game.
GW2 Divinity's reach city got a lot of praise for is huge scale and design.
The Assassin's Creed series, Grand Theft Auto and even Watch Dogs has build an entire genre on the idea of exploring and doing stuff in huge cities.
EQ Landmark is exploring the idea so MMOs seem to be looking in this direction.
The problem will always be regulating who gets to build where and how much in a shared virtual environment because for every westeros there will be 2000 phalic towers.
That's true, but most of the worlds these days aren't persistent. They are becoming more and more instanced and phased (now).
Or just make the city a zone like any other zone outside the city? Have quests, monsters, bad guys, dungeons like sewers or mansions, job boards. Have some of the parts of the city be instanced player neighbor hoods. You can do so much with a large city in a mmo. Parts of the city can be contested for PvP and have it effect things like taxes and such. Guilds can fight each other for territory like gangs do in real life.
GW2 already did
you can make a large city like that have lots of content, do you know all the kinds of things that go on in a city? Mansions, sewers, and things like those can be dungeons and such, for example maybe a Haunted Mansion. Have territorial PvP against guilds like gang wars. Its not hard to take a few seconds to think of some ideas instead of just completely dismiss it like some people are doing. And I dont see why you still cant have those forests and other natural zones too outside the city.