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Elder Scrolls Forum Exploit

124

Comments

  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXPosts: 1,205Member
    Originally posted by Taranx
    I can't stand the ESO forums. Half the time I go there it says threads are closed or can't login etc. I have no beef with the game, but their Forums seriously suck

    It won't let me log in so I quit trying. Most difficult forum to access of any game I've played.

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • Joejc7135Joejc7135 Spring Hill, FLPosts: 209Member Uncommon

    I have these things called principles. I am a fully grown adult and I expect some level of idiocy on forums. I also believe people should be allowed to say what they want as long as they aren't making threats or racial slurs....Now I totally understand Zenimax is a private company and can make the rules they want. And im sure they understand people like me will not support them on principle. After the abysmal launch of the game and the rumored production costs, it seems a bit counter-productive to go dropping suspensions IN GAME for trolling.

     

    I know you will get people claiming punishing trolls will stop them. Those same people probably claim drug laws stop people from doing drugs as well. What can you do but laugh and move on?

  • EhllfhireEhllfhire Sacramento, CAPosts: 597Member
    Originally posted by Joejc7135

    I have these things called principles. I am a fully grown adult and I expect some level of idiocy on forums. I also believe people should be allowed to say what they want as long as they aren't making threats or racial slurs....Now I totally understand Zenimax is a private company and can make the rules they want. And im sure they understand people like me will not support them on principle. After the abysmal launch of the game and the rumored production costs, it seems a bit counter-productive to go dropping suspensions IN GAME for trolling.

     

    I know you will get people claiming punishing trolls will stop them. Those same people probably claim drug laws stop people from doing drugs as well. What can you do but laugh and move on?

    People that think no tolerance is a good idea dont realize that people that shouldnt be banned get caught up like me, where apparantly what I said on their forums wasnt bannable from either forum or game according to CS

    Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
    PS3

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Ehllfhire
    Originally posted by Horusra
    So he was banned or suspended in the game for something he admits to doing...then goes to the official forum and acts up and get banned or suspended again....yeah you have a track record.

    You have me confused I DIDNT BREAK ANY IN GAME RULE. I DID NOT GO TO THE FORUMS AND BRAG ABOUT CHEATING. I GOT REPORTED FOR MAKING A L2P STATEMENT ON THE FORUMS. THAT IS ALL.

    Where do these people get that you said you were cheating?

    This is insane... people are coming out of the woodwork with strange stories that don't relate to OP at all...

     

    Yeah, I browsed through the OP's post history and didn't see anything until the two recent threads that was anything but "Yippee!  I'm playing Elder Scrolls Online!"  Maybe they are confusing the OP with someone else?

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • ZebladeZeblade Colorado Springs, COPosts: 926Member

    haha please we've all been there done that. Reported for. All it takes.

    Be nice if they could ban the gold and bots IN GAME. I mean man reported with so many others and yep still boting still selling gold haha..

  • daisdais Nowhere, TXPosts: 95Member
    Without knowing the severity of your post it's really hard to take a side here.  On the one hand I hope Zenimax isn't overreacting.  Players will have disagreements and it's ok to voice those opinions, but if it goes into harassment/offensive/threatening behavior then I can see the ban being appropriate.  As far as the forum ban extending into the game what's the problem?  You have always been able to get banned from talking that way to another player in game in lots of online games.  The game is basically a chat box with graphics.  If you can receive a game ban from offensive behavior in the chat box with graphics (in-game) why shouldn't you get the same ban when you are talking in the chat box without graphics (forum)?  It's still in their realm of influence.
  • WolfhammerWolfhammer KetteringPosts: 697Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    I think you guys are missing the point here.  Getting banned in the forum shouldn't result in getting banned in the game.  That's just bad business.

    No it's not...  Its a real consequence of your actions...  Who gives a flying fuck if you get a ban from a forum for 24 hours?

    Everyone cares about not being able to play the game however eh??

    image

    image

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,563Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wolfhammer
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    I think you guys are missing the point here.  Getting banned in the forum shouldn't result in getting banned in the game.  That's just bad business.

    No it's not...  Its a real consequence of your actions...  Who gives a flying fuck if you get a ban from a forum for 24 hours?

    Everyone cares about not being able to play the game however eh??

    Banning someone in game for a L2P comment in forums is moronic IMO. Now if the comments were of some really extreme nature - sure. 

    But L2P?

    It's a great way of ensuring players don't post in your forums for fear of getting banned in game.

    These actions only drive away players.

  • Jonas_SGJonas_SG LiverpoolPosts: 332Member Uncommon

    This reminds me of RUST forums. Only difference was that players got Perma Banned in there for speaking out.

    I am so glad i was right not to buy this game.  Horrible games tend to have angry moderators.

     

     

     

  • WolfhammerWolfhammer KetteringPosts: 697Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ehllfhire
    Originally posted by dbgager
    Originally posted by Ehllfhire
    Originally posted by dbgager
    Originally posted by Ehllfhire
    Originally posted by FlyByKnight
    ESO Forums are fundamentally gutter trash. A cluster bomb of German, French and English all mixed in together.  Why would anybody want to participate in that garbage?  It's a total mess.  Don't go back.  Lesson learned.

    Im never going back. Any system where a post you make can equate a game ban because someone disagrees or dislikes you is a bad system.

    Show us some proof otherwise your just blowing smoke ..and being a trouble maker.  And believe me your convincing very few people if anyone at all.

    I already copied over the email of the ban. If you wont believe that than you wont believe whatever  I show you.

    lol..I missed that.Your complaining about a 24 hour ban...I thought it was permanent...Behave yourself in the future...and stop having a tantrum... L2P is flaming. Follow the rules.

    I realize it was flaming, I admitted my guilt. But was it worth 24 hours off the game for a first infraction? I think not. I wouldnt even have sweated if it was just a forum ban, Id have just taken my punishment then.

    Exactly, you wouldn't have sweated it with just a forum ban meaning its no punishment....  A 24 hour game ban certainly woke you up and make you take notice...  Behave on the official forums in future or as your warning said. it may be worse next time..

    image

    image

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    This is actually a good thing. I support a game where they will pursue bans outside the game for something someone does. A new age of accountability on the internet is forthcoming in the next few years. So much less trolling. I look forward to it.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,986Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    This is actually a good thing. I support a game where they will pursue bans outside the game for something someone does. A new age of accountability on the internet is forthcoming in the next few years. So much less trolling. I look forward to it.

    Trolling you say? but these days trolling means 'anyone who disagrees with what i say'.

    If that is the ground to ban people from forums and games then i guess no one will be left playing the game.

    Some things are good only in theory. Just imagine bunch of people decided to report you just because you have a different opinion and they hate your guts. Happens  a lot on these forums too.

    I bet if it happened to you you won't be supporting this practise.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    This is actually a good thing. I support a game where they will pursue bans outside the game for something someone does. A new age of accountability on the internet is forthcoming in the next few years. So much less trolling. I look forward to it.

    Trolling you say? but these days trolling means 'anyone who disagrees with what i say'.

    If that is the ground to ban people from forums and games then i guess no one will be left playing the game.

    Some things are good only in theory. Just imagine bunch of people decided to report you just because you have a different opinion and they hate your guts. Happens  a lot on these forums too.

    I bet if it happened to you you won't be supporting this practise.

    Well any system has the potential for abuse. That's why I say a few years from now. Is ESO's system perfect? No not by any means, but it's a start for making people accountable for their actions. You may be right, if it happened to me unfairly, I may have a different opinion of it. But if it works out for the best down the road after all the kinks are worked out, wouldn't it be better for everyone involved? MMO's could have supportive and non-toxic communities again, or even communities at all which is something you just don't see anymore outside of niche games and the golden oldies.

     

    You bring up a good point Bigdaddy, but I feel like in the end this will work out better than letting people run rampant and say whatever they want to just get a rise out of people.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • cheeseheadscheeseheads beloit, WIPosts: 56Member Uncommon
    way i look at it is speak with your wallet.  unsub!!  money talks bs walks.  If enough people unsub cause of it maybe they will learn a lesson from it.  
  • ErdaErda Posts: 150Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    This is actually a good thing. I support a game where they will pursue bans outside the game for something someone does. A new age of accountability on the internet is forthcoming in the next few years. So much less trolling. I look forward to it.

    I agree 100% with you.  Perhaps people will think twice before making rather rude comments to other players.   Glad to see that Zenimax is taking action.

    I've always have been outspoken on gaming forums, to include the good and bad.  I've posted some rather negative things about games in the past on their various forums.  The big difference is that I try to be constructive in my comments and try to avoid entanglements with other posters.   You can get your point across without trolling or starting a flame war.   Or insulting someone with comments like L2P.  Get your point across a bit differently and I'm sure the OP wouldn't have gotten the ban.

     I've only received one ban during my many years of posting and that wasn't even on a gaming site.   It was posting a rather rude reputation comment towards a poster who really annoyed me.  I deserved the 3 day ban and am a bit ashamed in myself that I didn't act more appropriately.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member
    Originally posted by Erda
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    This is actually a good thing. I support a game where they will pursue bans outside the game for something someone does. A new age of accountability on the internet is forthcoming in the next few years. So much less trolling. I look forward to it.

    I agree 100% with you.  Perhaps people will think twice before making rather rude comments to other players.   Glad to see that Zenimax is taking action.

    I've always have been outspoken on gaming forums, to include the good and bad.  I've posted some rather negative things about games in the past on their various forums.  The big difference is that I try to be constructive in my comments and try to avoid entanglements with other posters.   You can get your point across without trolling or starting a flame war.   Or insulting someone with comments like L2P.  Get your point across a bit differently and I'm sure the OP wouldn't have gotten the ban.

     I've only received one ban during my many years of posting and that wasn't even on a gaming site.   It was posting a rather rude reputation comment towards a poster who really annoyed me.  I deserved the 3 day ban and am a bit ashamed in myself that I didn't act more appropriately.

     

    It might be a bit much to expect a new age of accountability on the internet.  Maybe a new age of accountability on ESO forums, where there was never a previous age of unaccountability.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Erda
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    This is actually a good thing. I support a game where they will pursue bans outside the game for something someone does. A new age of accountability on the internet is forthcoming in the next few years. So much less trolling. I look forward to it.

    I agree 100% with you.  Perhaps people will think twice before making rather rude comments to other players.   Glad to see that Zenimax is taking action.

    I've always have been outspoken on gaming forums, to include the good and bad.  I've posted some rather negative things about games in the past on their various forums.  The big difference is that I try to be constructive in my comments and try to avoid entanglements with other posters.   You can get your point across without trolling or starting a flame war.   Or insulting someone with comments like L2P.  Get your point across a bit differently and I'm sure the OP wouldn't have gotten the ban.

     I've only received one ban during my many years of posting and that wasn't even on a gaming site.   It was posting a rather rude reputation comment towards a poster who really annoyed me.  I deserved the 3 day ban and am a bit ashamed in myself that I didn't act more appropriately.

     

    It might be a bit much to expect a new age of accountability on the internet.  Maybe a new age of accountability on ESO forums, where there was never a previous age of unaccountability.

     

    I say the internet, what I really should have said is MMO's. EQNext is going to take the same hardline stance on trolling and flaming or so they say, and I expect other new releases to keep moving forward to do the same.

     

    For the whole internet? Probably not, but developers do have the power to remove the tumors from the body if you catch my drift.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • fs23otmfs23otm Winter Haven, FLPosts: 293Member Uncommon

    So you went fishing on the forums and trolled some post. They banned you from the forums and the game. 

    Way to go Zenimax! Kudos!

    Their forums are really for specific topics and support... so I can see why they have a tight fist.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Erda
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    This is actually a good thing. I support a game where they will pursue bans outside the game for something someone does. A new age of accountability on the internet is forthcoming in the next few years. So much less trolling. I look forward to it.

    I agree 100% with you.  Perhaps people will think twice before making rather rude comments to other players.   Glad to see that Zenimax is taking action.

    I've always have been outspoken on gaming forums, to include the good and bad.  I've posted some rather negative things about games in the past on their various forums.  The big difference is that I try to be constructive in my comments and try to avoid entanglements with other posters.   You can get your point across without trolling or starting a flame war.   Or insulting someone with comments like L2P.  Get your point across a bit differently and I'm sure the OP wouldn't have gotten the ban.

     I've only received one ban during my many years of posting and that wasn't even on a gaming site.   It was posting a rather rude reputation comment towards a poster who really annoyed me.  I deserved the 3 day ban and am a bit ashamed in myself that I didn't act more appropriately.

     

    It might be a bit much to expect a new age of accountability on the internet.  Maybe a new age of accountability on ESO forums, where there was never a previous age of unaccountability.

     

    I say the internet, what I really should have said is MMO's. EQNext is going to take the same hardline stance on trolling and flaming or so they say, and I expect other new releases to keep moving forward to do the same.

     

    For the whole internet? Probably not, but developers do have the power to remove the tumors from the body if you catch my drift.

     

    I could see that happening.  Most people are going to moderate their behavior simply because they know the rules, and they desire an environment where everyone follows the rules for mutual benefit.  For people who aren't that interested in the rules, or who don't really understand the idea of mutual benefit, something needs to exist that demonstrates that following the rules has benefits.  Even if the result is that those players simply don't post in the official forums, the forums themselves will become a more productive place.

     

    Of course, this all depends on the publisher themselves actually follow a consistent set of rules and don't get into banning people for being critical of the games and stuff like that.  Though, I don't really think that happens nearly as much as people like to say it happens.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • EhllfhireEhllfhire Sacramento, CAPosts: 597Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    This is actually a good thing. I support a game where they will pursue bans outside the game for something someone does. A new age of accountability on the internet is forthcoming in the next few years. So much less trolling. I look forward to it.

    Trolling you say? but these days trolling means 'anyone who disagrees with what i say'.

    If that is the ground to ban people from forums and games then i guess no one will be left playing the game.

    Some things are good only in theory. Just imagine bunch of people decided to report you just because you have a different opinion and they hate your guts. Happens  a lot on these forums too.

    I bet if it happened to you you won't be supporting this practise.

    Well any system has the potential for abuse. That's why I say a few years from now. Is ESO's system perfect? No not by any means, but it's a start for making people accountable for their actions. You may be right, if it happened to me unfairly, I may have a different opinion of it. But if it works out for the best down the road after all the kinks are worked out, wouldn't it be better for everyone involved? MMO's could have supportive and non-toxic communities again, or even communities at all which is something you just don't see anymore outside of niche games and the golden oldies.

     

    You bring up a good point Bigdaddy, but I feel like in the end this will work out better than letting people run rampant and say whatever they want to just get a rise out of people.

    You do realize that customer service reversed my ban, saying I had done nothing to warrant the ban. So if you are happy with people getting banned for no good reason, then I hope truly you see for yourself the harm that can be done.

    Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
    PS3

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Ehllfhire
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    This is actually a good thing. I support a game where they will pursue bans outside the game for something someone does. A new age of accountability on the internet is forthcoming in the next few years. So much less trolling. I look forward to it.

    Trolling you say? but these days trolling means 'anyone who disagrees with what i say'.

    If that is the ground to ban people from forums and games then i guess no one will be left playing the game.

    Some things are good only in theory. Just imagine bunch of people decided to report you just because you have a different opinion and they hate your guts. Happens  a lot on these forums too.

    I bet if it happened to you you won't be supporting this practise.

    Well any system has the potential for abuse. That's why I say a few years from now. Is ESO's system perfect? No not by any means, but it's a start for making people accountable for their actions. You may be right, if it happened to me unfairly, I may have a different opinion of it. But if it works out for the best down the road after all the kinks are worked out, wouldn't it be better for everyone involved? MMO's could have supportive and non-toxic communities again, or even communities at all which is something you just don't see anymore outside of niche games and the golden oldies.

     

    You bring up a good point Bigdaddy, but I feel like in the end this will work out better than letting people run rampant and say whatever they want to just get a rise out of people.

    You do realize that customer service reversed my ban, saying I had done nothing to warrant the ban. So if you are happy with people getting banned for no good reason, then I hope truly you see for yourself the harm that can be done.

    A "L2P" comment is plenty enough reason to warrant a 24 hour in game suspension in my eyes. Perma ban? Nope.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • EhllfhireEhllfhire Sacramento, CAPosts: 597Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Ehllfhire
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    This is actually a good thing. I support a game where they will pursue bans outside the game for something someone does. A new age of accountability on the internet is forthcoming in the next few years. So much less trolling. I look forward to it.

    Trolling you say? but these days trolling means 'anyone who disagrees with what i say'.

    If that is the ground to ban people from forums and games then i guess no one will be left playing the game.

    Some things are good only in theory. Just imagine bunch of people decided to report you just because you have a different opinion and they hate your guts. Happens  a lot on these forums too.

    I bet if it happened to you you won't be supporting this practise.

    Well any system has the potential for abuse. That's why I say a few years from now. Is ESO's system perfect? No not by any means, but it's a start for making people accountable for their actions. You may be right, if it happened to me unfairly, I may have a different opinion of it. But if it works out for the best down the road after all the kinks are worked out, wouldn't it be better for everyone involved? MMO's could have supportive and non-toxic communities again, or even communities at all which is something you just don't see anymore outside of niche games and the golden oldies.

     

    You bring up a good point Bigdaddy, but I feel like in the end this will work out better than letting people run rampant and say whatever they want to just get a rise out of people.

    You do realize that customer service reversed my ban, saying I had done nothing to warrant the ban. So if you are happy with people getting banned for no good reason, then I hope truly you see for yourself the harm that can be done.

    A "L2P" comment is plenty enough reason to warrant a 24 hour in game suspension in my eyes. Perma ban? Nope.

    Well its a good thing they dont have people like you working CS.  And a l2p comment especially A FIRST one doesnt necessitate any ban.

    Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
    PS3

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Ehllfhire
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Ehllfhire
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    This is actually a good thing. I support a game where they will pursue bans outside the game for something someone does. A new age of accountability on the internet is forthcoming in the next few years. So much less trolling. I look forward to it.

    Trolling you say? but these days trolling means 'anyone who disagrees with what i say'.

    If that is the ground to ban people from forums and games then i guess no one will be left playing the game.

    Some things are good only in theory. Just imagine bunch of people decided to report you just because you have a different opinion and they hate your guts. Happens  a lot on these forums too.

    I bet if it happened to you you won't be supporting this practise.

    Well any system has the potential for abuse. That's why I say a few years from now. Is ESO's system perfect? No not by any means, but it's a start for making people accountable for their actions. You may be right, if it happened to me unfairly, I may have a different opinion of it. But if it works out for the best down the road after all the kinks are worked out, wouldn't it be better for everyone involved? MMO's could have supportive and non-toxic communities again, or even communities at all which is something you just don't see anymore outside of niche games and the golden oldies.

     

    You bring up a good point Bigdaddy, but I feel like in the end this will work out better than letting people run rampant and say whatever they want to just get a rise out of people.

    You do realize that customer service reversed my ban, saying I had done nothing to warrant the ban. So if you are happy with people getting banned for no good reason, then I hope truly you see for yourself the harm that can be done.

    A "L2P" comment is plenty enough reason to warrant a 24 hour in game suspension in my eyes. Perma ban? Nope.

    Well its a good thing they dont have people like you working CS.  And a l2p comment especially A FIRST one doesnt necessitate any ban.

    Maybe so, either way I support them cracking down on forum trolls and flaming, regardless of what extremes may be used.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • EhllfhireEhllfhire Sacramento, CAPosts: 597Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Ehllfhire
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Ehllfhire
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    This is actually a good thing. I support a game where they will pursue bans outside the game for something someone does. A new age of accountability on the internet is forthcoming in the next few years. So much less trolling. I look forward to it.

    Trolling you say? but these days trolling means 'anyone who disagrees with what i say'.

    If that is the ground to ban people from forums and games then i guess no one will be left playing the game.

    Some things are good only in theory. Just imagine bunch of people decided to report you just because you have a different opinion and they hate your guts. Happens  a lot on these forums too.

    I bet if it happened to you you won't be supporting this practise.

    Well any system has the potential for abuse. That's why I say a few years from now. Is ESO's system perfect? No not by any means, but it's a start for making people accountable for their actions. You may be right, if it happened to me unfairly, I may have a different opinion of it. But if it works out for the best down the road after all the kinks are worked out, wouldn't it be better for everyone involved? MMO's could have supportive and non-toxic communities again, or even communities at all which is something you just don't see anymore outside of niche games and the golden oldies.

     

    You bring up a good point Bigdaddy, but I feel like in the end this will work out better than letting people run rampant and say whatever they want to just get a rise out of people.

    You do realize that customer service reversed my ban, saying I had done nothing to warrant the ban. So if you are happy with people getting banned for no good reason, then I hope truly you see for yourself the harm that can be done.

    A "L2P" comment is plenty enough reason to warrant a 24 hour in game suspension in my eyes. Perma ban? Nope.

    Well its a good thing they dont have people like you working CS.  And a l2p comment especially A FIRST one doesnt necessitate any ban.

    Maybe so, either way I support them cracking down on forum trolls and flaming, regardless of what extremes may be used.

    Thats like saying we can use a nuke to take out an anthill. It will work, but at the cost of nuking everyone else as well.

    Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
    PS3

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    It's nothing like that at all. You're going to have to appeal to someone else to defend you for trolling, you won't convince me to take up the case :)

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

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