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Interest In A "Traveller" Style Space MMO?

AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member

"Traveller" used to be a tabletop Pen and Paper RPG. I had some great fun with my high school buddies when we played that. I am not saying make an MMO exactly like Traveller (this spelling messed me up for years afterwards!), but rather the idea of crewing a ship and having commerce be the main point of the game. Anyone familiar with this old classic Space Sim RPG?

Basically, you created a character that went through one of your home world's military careers to start out. After some years (determined by the player), where you gained experience and skills, you mustered out. You started the game with some skills and not a nOOb.

You could be a Scout, an Engineering Tech, a Medical Tech or Doctor, a Navigator, Security Specialist, and all other aspects of spaceship crewing. Traveller had technology trees that could be rolled for, when one's skill got high enough. Medical Officers could even discover "immortality", or at least, slow down the aging process.

I always chuckled during character creation. Character Stats were rolled randomly. If you didn't like your rolls, you joined "The Scouts", who had the worst survivability.

It could be set-up with players being the crew members, or NPCs, which you get to control. Players being the crewmembers would be tougher, but could add a good RPG aspect to it, trying to get hired onto a ship after mustering out of the service. That could also backfire and possibly add "inefficient gameplay", but add the realism of trying to get hired on to a ship. NPC crewmembers could add alts without having to roll up new characters :)

- Be a merchant ship that buys goods in one sector or planet and sell them in another sector/planet for profit.

- Be a mercenary and hire out to the highest bidder.

- Be part of a planetary defense force.

- Hire out your ship and be a planetary explorer.

- Hire out your ship and seek out raw materials on unexplored planets.

- Be an asteroid miner.

- Build your own ships.

- Make improvements on your own ship.

- Be a technology leader in your field of study.

I realize that EVE has many of these features, but definitely not the same "feel" as Traveller had. I also realize that this idea may lose some of the fun like D&D did without a DM.

Maybe not a good idea for an MMO, today? Thoughts?

PS: Why is 3D movement so much more fun than 2D movement?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

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Comments

  • HokieHokie Vancouver Wa.Posts: 1,063Member Uncommon

    I kind of reminds me of Star Frontiers.

    Which was was my 2nd game to go to back in the day besides AD&D.

     

    If I remember correctly Start Frontiers (and then Star Drive) was a better "realized" sci-fi game than Traveller. But I'd totally be okay with a combination of the two / three of those games.

    "I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,205Member Uncommon

    This was one of my all time favorite pnp games. I still have all my old books from the 80's and 90's. I remember playing by myself even when I moved away from the friends I had that played. It was the kind of game you could spend hours creating and detailing worlds and smaller societies to fit within the main (Zhodani, Imperial, Terran, etc) empires, designing ships, and creating various npcs and characters.

    I would love to play an mmo like this. I do agree that EVE has some elements, but the atmosphere doesn't feel the same. Traveller was about a lot more than just pvp and pvp resource control. It was about a lot more than ships too. Some of our campaigns never took place in deep space. Some were planetary, others took place within a few worlds or systems, while others spanned the entirety of known space. For me it was very much character centric. Not all characters could even afford a ship.

    This game universe could hold every possible play style too. The possibilities of how you want to play and spend your time are nearly endless.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Hokie
    I kind of reminds me of Star Frontiers.Which was was my 2nd game to go to back in the day besides AD&D.If I remember correctly Start Frontiers (and then Star Drive) was a better "realized" sci-fi game than Traveller. But I'd totally be okay with a combination of the two / three of those games.
    I never played Star Frontiers, but that sounds cool, too :)

    Just having an open space simulator where adventures can happen would be a nifty idea,in my opinion :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    This was one of my all time favorite pnp games. I still have all my old books from the 80's and 90's. I remember playing by myself even when I moved away from the friends I had that played. It was the kind of game you could spend hours creating and detailing worlds and smaller societies to fit within the main (Zhodani, Imperial, Terran, etc) empires, designing ships, and creating various npcs and characters.I would love to play an mmo like this. I do agree that EVE has some elements, but the atmosphere doesn't feel the same. Traveller was about a lot more than just pvp and pvp resource control. It was about a lot more than ships too. Some of our campaigns never took place in deep space. Some were planetary, others took place within a few worlds or systems, while others spanned the entirety of known space. For me it was very much character centric. Not all characters could even afford a ship.This game universe could hold every possible play style too. The possibilities of how you want to play and spend your time are nearly endless.
    I always played a "Scotty" type Engineering Whiz character :)

    I spent hundreds of hours with the book "Highguard" because it had ship design mechanics. Figuring out metric tonnage and fitting it into a ship's shape was awesome fun that I do not think I could do anymore without a total "re-learn" of the system :)

    Yes, EVE lacks a lot of the activities that Traveller has/had. EVE, like you pointed out, is all about the ship. Traveller is/was all about the characters.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Apple Valley, CAPosts: 633Member Uncommon

    Hell Yeah Traveller would be awesome.

    The lore, giant space map.  Tech/law levels would make great mechanics.

    The character generation system, it would be amazing. If I had the ability to make an MMO I would make Traveller.

    aurum potestus est

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Apple Valley, CAPosts: 633Member Uncommon
    Really? You think Star Frontiers was better than Traveller. Man I don't get that at all. SF was very watered down and generic. The races were pretty bad too. It's like comparing Spelljammer and World of Greyhawk.

    aurum potestus est

  • mrrshann618mrrshann618 Waseca, MNPosts: 227Member Uncommon

    They each had their own thing to it.

    Played more SF than traveller/Mega Traveller 

    SF was more to me like a knockoff of Star Trek, while Traveller was more gritty, then again could have just been GM.

    I mostly played Shatterzone and Spacemaster.

     

    Heck ANY Sci-fi where some sort of effort was put into it would be a nice change of pace from the glut of Fantasy games.

    Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going!
    -->  http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs  <--
    Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member

    Damn...Had to log in to comment because this thread brought back memories.

    Traveller, Star Frontiers, AD&D... Good stuff. Even the early days of the home computer when there was still "magic" in the new technology. Those were good days. =)

    Not much more to add but- Hell yeah...

  • HokieHokie Vancouver Wa.Posts: 1,063Member Uncommon

    I guess I was lucky enough to play in a very well developed SF campaign, that combined Alpha Dawn (planetary) with Knight Hawks (starship).

    Ours was very heavy based on the explorer/bounty hunter/freighter pilot/Sathar guerrilla warfare play-style.

    Hmm, when I really think about it you could say our overall theme was a mercenary guns for hire play-style. Have to admit I do miss it.

    "I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  • crack_foxcrack_fox WellingtonPosts: 402Member
    I remember Traveller. I bought the ruleset but never got a campaign going. My group was always more into MERP/RM and AD&D. I also remember the Travellers strip in White Dwarf magazine, back when that mag didn't just cover GW's shit. 
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,289Member Uncommon
    Traveller MMO would be awesome, would be good if it could be done, i still, even now have all the original Traveller rulesets and 'adventures' i would love to see a game that was based on the 'universe' of traveller, to be able to explore the spinward marches, visit the sword worlds, would be a lot of fun, if only.. besides, how many games out there are there where your character can die during creation image
  • GrourouxGrouroux NagoyaPosts: 6Member

    It can be really cool, but how many players is needed to keep the gameplay fun ?

    When you speak about exploring planet, it can be really big to explore, and really hard to find another player. And in space it's worse. To list features it's cool, but to make a mmo there is always a problem of population density.


    Originally posted by AlBQuirky PS: Why is 3D movement so much more fun than 2D movement?
     

    Is it a Troll ? :)

    For me 2D movement are really more fun, and it can be ok for any kind of gameplay. It's also really easy to understand how you can move.

    --------------------
    Grouroux, Game Designer
    Gangs of Space > 4X MMO Shmup > Join Alpha : BEE7E-3B768-7626A-2A740

  • GadarethGadareth Westcliff-on-SeaPosts: 313Member

    I loved traveller one of the few rpg games where your character could actually die during character creation !! If they did make a mmorpg on it I really hope they keep that aspect.

    Seriously hardcore <grin> a mmorpg with the chance of permadeath in the creation screen !!

     

     

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Apple Valley, CAPosts: 633Member Uncommon

    I think a Traveller MMORPG would need to have procedurally generated planets, as the size of the known universe is vast, and having just 8-16 fleshed out planets would be awful. Better to not even do it if you can't get that Age of Sail feeling of wandering the universe and making credits hauling Fusion Power Units to remote outposts on worlds with thin atmospheres.

    aurum potestus est

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Grouroux
    It can be really cool, but how many players is needed to keep the gameplay fun ?When you speak about exploring planet, it can be really big to explore, and really hard to find another player. And in space it's worse. To list features it's cool, but to make a mmo there is always a problem of population density.Originally posted by AlBQuirky PS: Why is 3D movement so much more fun than 2D movement?
     

    Is it a Troll ? :)

    For me 2D movement are really more fun, and it can be ok for any kind of gameplay. It's also really easy to understand how you can move.



    The numbers could be a problem. Unfortunately, you can not "program" that into an MMO :)

    I agree 2D movement is easier to grasp then 3D, but I had great fun flying in City of Heroes and steering my spaceship in Star Trek: Online. I guess that extra axis gives me a sense of more freedom. Well, that and I can feel like a bird :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Archlyte
    I think a Traveller MMORPG would need to have procedurally generated planets, as the size of the known universe is vast, and having just 8-16 fleshed out planets would be awful. Better to not even do it if you can't get that Age of Sail feeling of wandering the universe and making credits hauling Fusion Power Units to remote outposts on worlds with thin atmospheres.
    That's a great idea, procedurally generating the worlds in space. The main worlds could be handcrafted, but the "discovery worlds" would do well with this :)

    I also agree that without the "Age of Sail" aspect, the whole idea would flop :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Archlyte
    I think a Traveller MMORPG would need to have procedurally generated planets, as the size of the known universe is vast, and having just 8-16 fleshed out planets would be awful. Better to not even do it if you can't get that Age of Sail feeling of wandering the universe and making credits hauling Fusion Power Units to remote outposts on worlds with thin atmospheres.

    That's a great idea, procedurally generating the worlds in space. The main worlds could be handcrafted, but the "discovery worlds" would do well with this :)

     

    I also agree that without the "Age of Sail" aspect, the whole idea would flop :)

    and they will probably all look generic and boring with nothing interesting to do on them.

    I would much rather to have a RPG with well crafted levels, scripted stories, and good game mechanics.

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Apple Valley, CAPosts: 633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Archlyte
    I think a Traveller MMORPG would need to have procedurally generated planets, as the size of the known universe is vast, and having just 8-16 fleshed out planets would be awful. Better to not even do it if you can't get that Age of Sail feeling of wandering the universe and making credits hauling Fusion Power Units to remote outposts on worlds with thin atmospheres.

    That's a great idea, procedurally generating the worlds in space. The main worlds could be handcrafted, but the "discovery worlds" would do well with this :)

     

    I also agree that without the "Age of Sail" aspect, the whole idea would flop :)

    and they will probably all look generic and boring with nothing interesting to do on them.

    I would much rather to have a RPG with well crafted levels, scripted stories, and good game mechanics.

    Yes because you are a cafeteria line MMO player. You hit the wrong thread bro, the spoon fed crowd wouldn't like this game in any form, it would have too much freedom and player-dependent content because It came from PnP. Wildstar should have everything you need, thread is that way --->

    aurum potestus est

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,943Member Uncommon
    Maybe you should actually read/comprehend what he was saying archlyte, exploring a universe of a procedurally generated universe would be insipid and dull. You want to explore to find the exotic, locations that inspire etc. e.g. See Travelling in Eve.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,943Member Uncommon
    Eve as in a large universe where everything is 'samey'. Large for the sake of large does not make an attractive travelling game.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Maybe you should actually read/comprehend what he was saying archlyte, exploring a universe of a procedurally generated universe would be insipid and dull. You want to explore to find the exotic, locations that inspire etc. e.g. See Travelling in Eve.
    I am not all that familiar with "procedural generation", as I never got out of the first town in Daggerfall :)

    Does it allow for "possible" interesting places or points? Like could each world have a main city, maybe 5-50 settlements, a few mining areas, and planet specific flora and fauna?

    I think that Master of Magic uses procedural (or is it just random?) lands with every new game you play. It is on a much smaller scale, but possibly similar in design?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,943Member Uncommon
    The problem with generating landscapes and areas of interest is that it all boils down to clever algorithms and logic - for a human we quickly see the patterns and become bored of them. For things to be interesting it has to be different, gave an interesting context (e.g story and unique auto bring it to life). And for that you need imagination, aka humans or true ai lol.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Maybe you should actually read/comprehend what he was saying archlyte, exploring a universe of a procedurally generated universe would be insipid and dull. You want to explore to find the exotic, locations that inspire etc. e.g. See Travelling in Eve.

    Exactly. I don't enjoy find the needle of interesting stuff in a haystack of boring running around.

    Just give me the interesting stuff.

     

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Apple Valley, CAPosts: 633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Maybe you should actually read/comprehend what he was saying archlyte, exploring a universe of a procedurally generated universe would be insipid and dull. You want to explore to find the exotic, locations that inspire etc. e.g. See Travelling in Eve.

    No I believe he came in on this discussion to dick up what I said because it's at odds with his preferences for linear one-off games. What is dull and insipid to me is the same stage set with the same props without any difference. Take a look at the Traveller star map and you will see that putting 5 planets in the game would be a gross attempt at bringing that setting to life.

     

    www.travellermap.com

     

    Add in the typical 50 levels and done and you have a recipe for a throw away game, which is what he wants.

    By having the planets be generated instead of having every rock and mob and tree placed, you would get something akin to the way the actual RPG had a system for generating planets and coding them based on the details. 5-15 high detail worlds could be made, but without exploration and far travel there would be little point in making an MMORPG out of the Traveller IP.

     

    Eve's travel system would work well in Traveller save for the jump gates, as the system maps make sense and work well for the kinds of things you would want to do in Traveller. The problem with Eve is that there is no anthro connection in that game. Traveller couldn't be done like that. You would need to have an avatar that can actually walk through the ships/stations/planets, and fight, and interact with the world.

    aurum potestus est

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Apple Valley, CAPosts: 633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Maybe you should actually read/comprehend what he was saying archlyte, exploring a universe of a procedurally generated universe would be insipid and dull. You want to explore to find the exotic, locations that inspire etc. e.g. See Travelling in Eve.

    Exactly. I don't enjoy find the needle of interesting stuff in a haystack of boring running around.

    Just give me the interesting stuff.

     

    Interesting is subjective I guess

    aurum potestus est

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