Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Thinking of Playing EvE? Perhaps reconsider.

1246715

Comments

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Rigur
    Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    I've been scammed, ganked, griefed, targeted by professional corp killers, got strung out to dry for CEO incompetence, used as cannon fodder, had assets stolen from me by someone who pretended to be a friend, etc all in EVE... and guess what softies? I don't compare that to rape and never will because the act of forcefully subjecting someone in real life for your own carnal gratification can never, ever, ever, equate to a few curse words as you lose some pixels for whatever reasons. In EVE Online the very first advice you are given: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose and the second arguably is Do not believe things that are too good to be true.

     

    The OP violated EULA rules by discussing GM actions on the forum and this is a pretty universal rule, more so than his "If it harms the game it is against the EULA!!" comment, and proceeded to fail repeatedly at thinking his actions out beyond the first step in a sandbox game which IMHO is downright asking for it ( you seriously wanted to setup a NRDS zone in Stain? even Black Frog wouldn't be suicidal enough to support shipping runs that deep in space on a constant basis and you wanted to do it anyway? With what alliance backing you? None? in a zone that's been a hotbed for conflict between the Russians and the western player alliances since before I joined EVE which was in 2005? Wow... just...wow).

     

    I do not blame victims but people who basically slather tartar sauce on themselves and jump into a tiger pit aren't victims and the OP was asking for it... considering there's a block function for people in-game (thus verbal abuse can be dealt with within 1-2 minutes) and considering that if he had any real support cloaking gank can be mitigated quite easily (nothing ruins a pilgrims day than a cloaky legion or loki uncloaking behind it and blowing it apart).. I cannot condone this thread as anything other than the wishful fantasies of someone who wants the freedom to do whatever he likes but does not want everyone else to have the same freedom which IMHO is far too common these days (hint: one of the reason SWG NGE hit was people disliking other's freedoms) .

     

    As for the guy who had cancer who got ganked...despicable as that may seem he forgot the first rule of EVE: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. because that gank may have happened even without his friend's help... shit happens all the time in EVE. That said I personally take a hard line against people who, for whatever reason, get or expect preferential treatment in EVE because I personally have health issue, nowhere near as severe as cancer for example but sufficient that a strong enough blow, which would be non-fatal otherwise, could outright kill me, and find the notion of people giving me any kind of special treatment disgusting (I've left corps in the past for this, I prefer getting ganked to the ganker going "Oh... you have issues... ok I will not shoot you but shoot your friends!" ).

     

    EVE is a sandbox, it is not inherently evil or inherently good that is dictated by the players within and say what you will about that freedom to choose but do not take away from it with "If it damages the game you get banned" because that rule can and has been used to cry wolf in many games before and developers less sure of their vision have fallen for it but CCP while it has that rule applies it only in extreme cases to preserve player freedoms. You want to blame someone for the game being so hostile? Blame the players because we as a whole have a few psychopaths and sociopaths amongst our ranks but just like in real life: If he/she ain't looking at me I do not care.

    One of the very few reasonable responses to this ridiculous thread. 

    Because he agrees with you.

     

    In Everquest ( bringing it up cause mentioned it a few posts back ) ninja-looting,training,harassment ect was bannable. They put in their "play-nice" policy for a reason.

    Harassment in any MMO should be bannable. If you all want to keep comparing Eve to real life fine, but in real life there is consequences for your actions. Continually harassing someone in real life is called stalking.

    I honestly don't care what you degenerates do to each other. It is a pvp game after all and the company that owns it makes it no secret they get off on the sadomasochism. When someone makes a post like this tho I will show empathy.

    Well first off Everquest (I assume you mean the first) was the prototype for themeparks which WoW iterated upon with great success so comparing a themepark with a sandbox including the rules by which these are governed is not smart at all considering what is good for one is bad for another especially considering the types of people the draw and the sort of community you want to build.

    Harassment which goes against the rules of the game (such as teamkilling in say World of Tanks, exploiting glitches to grief someone in something like EVE,etc) but if it is a simple brawl between e-peen users then the developer rarely gets involved and when they do it usually ends badly for them not the parties involved.

    Us degenerates have a growing thriving game which has survived with the P2P model in an age in which every other MMO has gone F2P, is in deep shit or is WoW in the western market. Kind of funny how that works out, right? Now kindly go back to whatever soon to go F2P game you are playing and leave us degenerates with may quite possibly be the last bastion of P2P in the end.

     

    Addendum: To those who know my posting history: I advocate F2P on an almost universal scale except for games like EVE-Online, long standing sandboxes, where a F2P/B2P conversion may destroy the player made systems/groups utterly and wreck the experience completely.

     

    Edit:

    Dear Christ OP... you have no case against the guy... if you both were in Iceland maybe, if you both were from the same country and it had the same law maybe but you would get laughed out of the police station when you go to report "A mean man called me a pedo online in a game I play!" because there's a big difference between cyberbulling (actual harassment) and playing the metagame in EVE.

    image
  • coltraskcoltrask Nashville, TNPosts: 11Member
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Malfuss

    DISCLAIMER: I read the first 2 pages of this before it exploded, so apologies if any of this has been covered already.

    I've just signed up because I feel quite strongly about this post. What the OP doesn't tell you is that he has quite a reputation on the Eve forums for not very good posting and he was probably trolled harder because of it. Personally I have nothing against him or his posts but the fact of the matter is he discussed GM correspondence in his post, which he knows will lead immediately to the thread being locked. Because people were ignoring him he then started acting like a petulant child. After his post was locked he then proceeded to rant in new posts which he again knows is not allowed.

    Not only that, although he proved that the alts were set up to follow him, he couldn't provide evidence of being called a pedo or that he was accused of watching child porn. He then went on to look into Icelandic law and discovered that being accused of being a pedo was against the law. He then demanded that CCP act because of this despite being unable to provide evidence. He also fails to mention that CCP looked at both of the harassment tickets and found him to be at fault for swearing.

    Anyway, that isn't the main reason for this post. My reason for posting is because of the negative views people have of Eve. The thing is the 'bad' stories are the ones they get the press, always has been, always will be. The reports also invariably don't follow up on the stories so people are still thinking how bad Eve players are. 

    Take the 'suicide' story, it tells of the CSM chair saying 'If you want to make someone commit suicide go hassle player X'. When I first read the story (admittedly a couple of months after it happened) I was disgusted. I then looked further into to and found that the CSM chair was blindingly drunk and the audience was pretty much the same. It's not an excuse, I know, but does help explain why people weren't immediately up in arms about it. The guy who said it, woke up the next day, realised how bad his comment was, proceeded to step down from the CSM chair, offered an official apology and took his ban. Are you telling me none of you say things whilst drunk that you don't really mean? I know I have and know I probably will in the future.

    The cancer guy was scammed because he fell for it, yet everyone tries to paint the picture that it was because he had cancer that they scammed him.

    How about the good parts of Eve, and the story of Sean Smith or Vile Rat as he was known in game.  For those that don't know the story. He was an American diplomat that had a huge bearing on the game, and was killed in a raid on the US Consulate in Libya. People all over Eve mourned his loss, setup tributes for him, renamed their stations for him and even made Youtube videos honoring him. Still brings tears to my eyes even though I never met him. People so easily forget.

    As for Eve players being sick or mentally unstable, well seriously. Some people do take things too far, in Eve, in real life everywhere. I've played Eve on and off for years, got scammed on the market, laughed at other scammers that tried it, been ganked, been harassed, just like when I used to when I played WoW and CoH. The ganking I used to get when playing WoW was far in excess of anything I've ever experienced in Eve and there it was against level 60's that I couldn't even hope to fight back against when I was a lowly level 10 or so. I remember getting corpse camped for about 2 hours in WoW, never had that in Eve.

    Actually this is incorrect - I provided proof that a) the person was following me for months b) https://i.imgur.com/ZF5NuiJ.png  You can see in this image the person states they are specifically targetting me for harassment.  c) https://i.imgur.com/Ae8WArd.png  You can see in this image the person admitting what I proposed they said to me was true.

    And really it doesn't matter.  No one deserves to have a player or players following them for months non-stop for no other reason than to harass them.  End of story. its wrong.

    What you posted is eve 101, as a 2003 player, you should know, local chat has no bearing on harrassment, as there are systems in place to block, and ignore people.  You engage them in local chat furthermore, and that is another thing you should not have done.  Your proof of him calling you a pedo is you typing a quote and him saying "and".  While I don't doubt he called you this, your pic is not proof.  

    As others stated, this is not something that is against the rules in EVE until it goes way out of hand.   Being hunted for 3 months or folllowed around by people you can ignore or block, is not harrassment in EVE.  And as for the guy who said that should be bannable in all mmo's?  No, please don't enforce rules you like in games you play, on a community who likes their game the way it is.  We have so much choice in gaming nowadays, is this kind of argument even worth it?

  • RigurRigur Johnson City, TNPosts: 53Member
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Rigur
    Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    I've been scammed, ganked, griefed, targeted by professional corp killers, got strung out to dry for CEO incompetence, used as cannon fodder, had assets stolen from me by someone who pretended to be a friend, etc all in EVE... and guess what softies? I don't compare that to rape and never will because the act of forcefully subjecting someone in real life for your own carnal gratification can never, ever, ever, equate to a few curse words as you lose some pixels for whatever reasons. In EVE Online the very first advice you are given: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose and the second arguably is Do not believe things that are too good to be true.

     

    The OP violated EULA rules by discussing GM actions on the forum and this is a pretty universal rule, more so than his "If it harms the game it is against the EULA!!" comment, and proceeded to fail repeatedly at thinking his actions out beyond the first step in a sandbox game which IMHO is downright asking for it ( you seriously wanted to setup a NRDS zone in Stain? even Black Frog wouldn't be suicidal enough to support shipping runs that deep in space on a constant basis and you wanted to do it anyway? With what alliance backing you? None? in a zone that's been a hotbed for conflict between the Russians and the western player alliances since before I joined EVE which was in 2005? Wow... just...wow).

     

    I do not blame victims but people who basically slather tartar sauce on themselves and jump into a tiger pit aren't victims and the OP was asking for it... considering there's a block function for people in-game (thus verbal abuse can be dealt with within 1-2 minutes) and considering that if he had any real support cloaking gank can be mitigated quite easily (nothing ruins a pilgrims day than a cloaky legion or loki uncloaking behind it and blowing it apart).. I cannot condone this thread as anything other than the wishful fantasies of someone who wants the freedom to do whatever he likes but does not want everyone else to have the same freedom which IMHO is far too common these days (hint: one of the reason SWG NGE hit was people disliking other's freedoms) .

     

    As for the guy who had cancer who got ganked...despicable as that may seem he forgot the first rule of EVE: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. because that gank may have happened even without his friend's help... shit happens all the time in EVE. That said I personally take a hard line against people who, for whatever reason, get or expect preferential treatment in EVE because I personally have health issue, nowhere near as severe as cancer for example but sufficient that a strong enough blow, which would be non-fatal otherwise, could outright kill me, and find the notion of people giving me any kind of special treatment disgusting (I've left corps in the past for this, I prefer getting ganked to the ganker going "Oh... you have issues... ok I will not shoot you but shoot your friends!" ).

     

    EVE is a sandbox, it is not inherently evil or inherently good that is dictated by the players within and say what you will about that freedom to choose but do not take away from it with "If it damages the game you get banned" because that rule can and has been used to cry wolf in many games before and developers less sure of their vision have fallen for it but CCP while it has that rule applies it only in extreme cases to preserve player freedoms. You want to blame someone for the game being so hostile? Blame the players because we as a whole have a few psychopaths and sociopaths amongst our ranks but just like in real life: If he/she ain't looking at me I do not care.

    One of the very few reasonable responses to this ridiculous thread. 

    Because he agrees with you.

     

    In Everquest ( bringing it up cause mentioned it a few posts back ) ninja-looting,training,harassment ect was bannable. They put in their "play-nice" policy for a reason.

    Harassment in any MMO should be bannable. If you all want to keep comparing Eve to real life fine, but in real life there is consequences for your actions. Continually harassing someone in real life is called stalking.

    I honestly don't care what you degenerates do to each other. It is a pvp game after all and the company that owns it makes it no secret they get off on the sadomasochism. When someone makes a post like this tho I will show empathy.

    Well first off Everquest (I assume you mean the first) was the prototype for themeparks which WoW iterated upon with great success so comparing a themepark with a sandbox including the rules by which these are governed is not smart at all considering what is good for one is bad for another especially considering the types of people the draw and the sort of community you want to build.

    Harassment which goes against the rules of the game (such as teamkilling in say World of Tanks, exploiting glitches to grief someone in something like EVE,etc) but if it is a simple brawl between e-peen users then the developer rarely gets involved and when they do it usually ends badly for them not the parties involved.

    Us degenerates have a growing thriving game which has survived with the P2P model in an age in which every other MMO has gone F2P, is in deep shit or is WoW in the western market. Kind of funny how that works out, right? Now kindly go back to whatever soon to go F2P game you are playing and leave us degenerates with may quite possibly be the last bastion of P2P in the end.

     

    Addendum: To those who know my posting history: I advocate F2P on an almost universal scale except for games like EVE-Online, long standing sandboxes, where a F2P/B2P conversion may destroy the player made systems/groups utterly and wreck the experience completely.

     

    Edit:

    Dear Christ OP... you have no case against the guy... if you both were in Iceland maybe, if you both were from the same country and it had the same law maybe but you would get laughed out of the police station when you go to report "A mean man called me a pedo online in a game I play!" because there's a big difference between cyberbulling (actual harassment) and playing the metagame in EVE.

    Well first off the Everquest reference was too the guy that replied to you.

    I will got back to my soon to go F2P mmo thank you! When can I tell blizzard not to charge me 15$ anymore?

    edit. If someone is continually making alts to bypass the ignore system to harass you then yes this should be bannable in all MMOs

    The first MMO you loved will always be the best. You will never get that feeling back stop trying.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon
    sounds pretty hardcore! I love it.

    image

  • coltraskcoltrask Nashville, TNPosts: 11Member
    Originally posted by Rigur
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Rigur
    Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    I've been scammed, ganked, griefed, targeted by professional corp killers, got strung out to dry for CEO incompetence, used as cannon fodder, had assets stolen from me by someone who pretended to be a friend, etc all in EVE... and guess what softies? I don't compare that to rape and never will because the act of forcefully subjecting someone in real life for your own carnal gratification can never, ever, ever, equate to a few curse words as you lose some pixels for whatever reasons. In EVE Online the very first advice you are given: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose and the second arguably is Do not believe things that are too good to be true.

     

    The OP violated EULA rules by discussing GM actions on the forum and this is a pretty universal rule, more so than his "If it harms the game it is against the EULA!!" comment, and proceeded to fail repeatedly at thinking his actions out beyond the first step in a sandbox game which IMHO is downright asking for it ( you seriously wanted to setup a NRDS zone in Stain? even Black Frog wouldn't be suicidal enough to support shipping runs that deep in space on a constant basis and you wanted to do it anyway? With what alliance backing you? None? in a zone that's been a hotbed for conflict between the Russians and the western player alliances since before I joined EVE which was in 2005? Wow... just...wow).

     

    I do not blame victims but people who basically slather tartar sauce on themselves and jump into a tiger pit aren't victims and the OP was asking for it... considering there's a block function for people in-game (thus verbal abuse can be dealt with within 1-2 minutes) and considering that if he had any real support cloaking gank can be mitigated quite easily (nothing ruins a pilgrims day than a cloaky legion or loki uncloaking behind it and blowing it apart).. I cannot condone this thread as anything other than the wishful fantasies of someone who wants the freedom to do whatever he likes but does not want everyone else to have the same freedom which IMHO is far too common these days (hint: one of the reason SWG NGE hit was people disliking other's freedoms) .

     

    As for the guy who had cancer who got ganked...despicable as that may seem he forgot the first rule of EVE: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. because that gank may have happened even without his friend's help... shit happens all the time in EVE. That said I personally take a hard line against people who, for whatever reason, get or expect preferential treatment in EVE because I personally have health issue, nowhere near as severe as cancer for example but sufficient that a strong enough blow, which would be non-fatal otherwise, could outright kill me, and find the notion of people giving me any kind of special treatment disgusting (I've left corps in the past for this, I prefer getting ganked to the ganker going "Oh... you have issues... ok I will not shoot you but shoot your friends!" ).

     

    EVE is a sandbox, it is not inherently evil or inherently good that is dictated by the players within and say what you will about that freedom to choose but do not take away from it with "If it damages the game you get banned" because that rule can and has been used to cry wolf in many games before and developers less sure of their vision have fallen for it but CCP while it has that rule applies it only in extreme cases to preserve player freedoms. You want to blame someone for the game being so hostile? Blame the players because we as a whole have a few psychopaths and sociopaths amongst our ranks but just like in real life: If he/she ain't looking at me I do not care.

    One of the very few reasonable responses to this ridiculous thread. 

    Because he agrees with you.

     

    In Everquest ( bringing it up cause mentioned it a few posts back ) ninja-looting,training,harassment ect was bannable. They put in their "play-nice" policy for a reason.

    Harassment in any MMO should be bannable. If you all want to keep comparing Eve to real life fine, but in real life there is consequences for your actions. Continually harassing someone in real life is called stalking.

    I honestly don't care what you degenerates do to each other. It is a pvp game after all and the company that owns it makes it no secret they get off on the sadomasochism. When someone makes a post like this tho I will show empathy.

    Well first off Everquest (I assume you mean the first) was the prototype for themeparks which WoW iterated upon with great success so comparing a themepark with a sandbox including the rules by which these are governed is not smart at all considering what is good for one is bad for another especially considering the types of people the draw and the sort of community you want to build.

    Harassment which goes against the rules of the game (such as teamkilling in say World of Tanks, exploiting glitches to grief someone in something like EVE,etc) but if it is a simple brawl between e-peen users then the developer rarely gets involved and when they do it usually ends badly for them not the parties involved.

    Us degenerates have a growing thriving game which has survived with the P2P model in an age in which every other MMO has gone F2P, is in deep shit or is WoW in the western market. Kind of funny how that works out, right? Now kindly go back to whatever soon to go F2P game you are playing and leave us degenerates with may quite possibly be the last bastion of P2P in the end.

     

    Addendum: To those who know my posting history: I advocate F2P on an almost universal scale except for games like EVE-Online, long standing sandboxes, where a F2P/B2P conversion may destroy the player made systems/groups utterly and wreck the experience completely.

     

    Edit:

    Dear Christ OP... you have no case against the guy... if you both were in Iceland maybe, if you both were from the same country and it had the same law maybe but you would get laughed out of the police station when you go to report "A mean man called me a pedo online in a game I play!" because there's a big difference between cyberbulling (actual harassment) and playing the metagame in EVE.

    Well first off the Everquest reference was too the guy that replied to you.

    I will got back to my soon to go F2P mmo thank you! When can I tell blizzard not to charge me 15$ anymore?

    edit. If someone is continually making alts to bypass the ignore system to harass you then yes this should be bannable in all MMOs

    Had you originally typed it that way, then I might perhaps slightly agree, but you did not word it that way.  Therefore I stand by my statement.  But I like your posts :)  Specifically the one where you are the first to apologize for labeling the entire eve community, and that is the main point really.  I do feel for OP, but EVE is the way it is.  

  • RigurRigur Johnson City, TNPosts: 53Member
    I did not know at the time (I had assumed) the OP had ignored them.

    The first MMO you loved will always be the best. You will never get that feeling back stop trying.

  • RigurRigur Johnson City, TNPosts: 53Member
    Originally posted by coltrask
    Originally posted by Rigur
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Rigur
    Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    I've been scammed, ganked, griefed, targeted by professional corp killers, got strung out to dry for CEO incompetence, used as cannon fodder, had assets stolen from me by someone who pretended to be a friend, etc all in EVE... and guess what softies? I don't compare that to rape and never will because the act of forcefully subjecting someone in real life for your own carnal gratification can never, ever, ever, equate to a few curse words as you lose some pixels for whatever reasons. In EVE Online the very first advice you are given: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose and the second arguably is Do not believe things that are too good to be true.

     

    The OP violated EULA rules by discussing GM actions on the forum and this is a pretty universal rule, more so than his "If it harms the game it is against the EULA!!" comment, and proceeded to fail repeatedly at thinking his actions out beyond the first step in a sandbox game which IMHO is downright asking for it ( you seriously wanted to setup a NRDS zone in Stain? even Black Frog wouldn't be suicidal enough to support shipping runs that deep in space on a constant basis and you wanted to do it anyway? With what alliance backing you? None? in a zone that's been a hotbed for conflict between the Russians and the western player alliances since before I joined EVE which was in 2005? Wow... just...wow).

     

    I do not blame victims but people who basically slather tartar sauce on themselves and jump into a tiger pit aren't victims and the OP was asking for it... considering there's a block function for people in-game (thus verbal abuse can be dealt with within 1-2 minutes) and considering that if he had any real support cloaking gank can be mitigated quite easily (nothing ruins a pilgrims day than a cloaky legion or loki uncloaking behind it and blowing it apart).. I cannot condone this thread as anything other than the wishful fantasies of someone who wants the freedom to do whatever he likes but does not want everyone else to have the same freedom which IMHO is far too common these days (hint: one of the reason SWG NGE hit was people disliking other's freedoms) .

     

    As for the guy who had cancer who got ganked...despicable as that may seem he forgot the first rule of EVE: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. because that gank may have happened even without his friend's help... shit happens all the time in EVE. That said I personally take a hard line against people who, for whatever reason, get or expect preferential treatment in EVE because I personally have health issue, nowhere near as severe as cancer for example but sufficient that a strong enough blow, which would be non-fatal otherwise, could outright kill me, and find the notion of people giving me any kind of special treatment disgusting (I've left corps in the past for this, I prefer getting ganked to the ganker going "Oh... you have issues... ok I will not shoot you but shoot your friends!" ).

     

    EVE is a sandbox, it is not inherently evil or inherently good that is dictated by the players within and say what you will about that freedom to choose but do not take away from it with "If it damages the game you get banned" because that rule can and has been used to cry wolf in many games before and developers less sure of their vision have fallen for it but CCP while it has that rule applies it only in extreme cases to preserve player freedoms. You want to blame someone for the game being so hostile? Blame the players because we as a whole have a few psychopaths and sociopaths amongst our ranks but just like in real life: If he/she ain't looking at me I do not care.

    One of the very few reasonable responses to this ridiculous thread. 

    Because he agrees with you.

     

    In Everquest ( bringing it up cause mentioned it a few posts back ) ninja-looting,training,harassment ect was bannable. They put in their "play-nice" policy for a reason.

    Harassment in any MMO should be bannable. If you all want to keep comparing Eve to real life fine, but in real life there is consequences for your actions. Continually harassing someone in real life is called stalking.

    I honestly don't care what you degenerates do to each other. It is a pvp game after all and the company that owns it makes it no secret they get off on the sadomasochism. When someone makes a post like this tho I will show empathy.

    Well first off Everquest (I assume you mean the first) was the prototype for themeparks which WoW iterated upon with great success so comparing a themepark with a sandbox including the rules by which these are governed is not smart at all considering what is good for one is bad for another especially considering the types of people the draw and the sort of community you want to build.

    Harassment which goes against the rules of the game (such as teamkilling in say World of Tanks, exploiting glitches to grief someone in something like EVE,etc) but if it is a simple brawl between e-peen users then the developer rarely gets involved and when they do it usually ends badly for them not the parties involved.

    Us degenerates have a growing thriving game which has survived with the P2P model in an age in which every other MMO has gone F2P, is in deep shit or is WoW in the western market. Kind of funny how that works out, right? Now kindly go back to whatever soon to go F2P game you are playing and leave us degenerates with may quite possibly be the last bastion of P2P in the end.

     

    Addendum: To those who know my posting history: I advocate F2P on an almost universal scale except for games like EVE-Online, long standing sandboxes, where a F2P/B2P conversion may destroy the player made systems/groups utterly and wreck the experience completely.

     

    Edit:

    Dear Christ OP... you have no case against the guy... if you both were in Iceland maybe, if you both were from the same country and it had the same law maybe but you would get laughed out of the police station when you go to report "A mean man called me a pedo online in a game I play!" because there's a big difference between cyberbulling (actual harassment) and playing the metagame in EVE.

    Well first off the Everquest reference was too the guy that replied to you.

    I will got back to my soon to go F2P mmo thank you! When can I tell blizzard not to charge me 15$ anymore?

    edit. If someone is continually making alts to bypass the ignore system to harass you then yes this should be bannable in all MMOs

    Had you originally typed it that way, then I might perhaps slightly agree, but you did not word it that way.  Therefore I stand by my statement.  But I like your posts :)  Specifically the one where you are the first to apologize for labeling the entire eve community, and that is the main point really.  I do feel for OP, but EVE is the way it is.  

    I came off harsh in my first few posts. I generalized everyone in haste. Again I apologize.

    The few instances of real abuse skewed my viewpoint.

     

    The first MMO you loved will always be the best. You will never get that feeling back stop trying.

  • RodentofdoomRodentofdoom NottinghamPosts: 273Member

    Interesting thread.

     

    However it is a little light on factual information, but very heavy with anecdotal theory & rumour.

     

    So here's some facts.

    CCP's general overview on griefing - > https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Griefing
    CCP's stance on newbie griefing -> https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems


    So contrary to your opening statement with regards to CCP's blasé attitude towards new players being victimised, CCP actively monitor these systems and enforce sanctions on people griefing in them.

    Yes, griefing occurs in Eve
    Yes, CCP largely encourage it as an aspect of emergent gameplay
    Yes, EVE Online is not the right game for everyone to play

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,583Member Uncommon
    Not sure how effective their ACTIVE monitoring is. They seem to always be on the late side of issues.
  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Rigur
    Originally posted by coltrask
    Originally posted by Rigur
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Rigur
    Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    I've been scammed, ganked, griefed, targeted by professional corp killers, got strung out to dry for CEO incompetence, used as cannon fodder, had assets stolen from me by someone who pretended to be a friend, etc all in EVE... and guess what softies? I don't compare that to rape and never will because the act of forcefully subjecting someone in real life for your own carnal gratification can never, ever, ever, equate to a few curse words as you lose some pixels for whatever reasons. In EVE Online the very first advice you are given: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose and the second arguably is Do not believe things that are too good to be true.

     

    The OP violated EULA rules by discussing GM actions on the forum and this is a pretty universal rule, more so than his "If it harms the game it is against the EULA!!" comment, and proceeded to fail repeatedly at thinking his actions out beyond the first step in a sandbox game which IMHO is downright asking for it ( you seriously wanted to setup a NRDS zone in Stain? even Black Frog wouldn't be suicidal enough to support shipping runs that deep in space on a constant basis and you wanted to do it anyway? With what alliance backing you? None? in a zone that's been a hotbed for conflict between the Russians and the western player alliances since before I joined EVE which was in 2005? Wow... just...wow).

     

    I do not blame victims but people who basically slather tartar sauce on themselves and jump into a tiger pit aren't victims and the OP was asking for it... considering there's a block function for people in-game (thus verbal abuse can be dealt with within 1-2 minutes) and considering that if he had any real support cloaking gank can be mitigated quite easily (nothing ruins a pilgrims day than a cloaky legion or loki uncloaking behind it and blowing it apart).. I cannot condone this thread as anything other than the wishful fantasies of someone who wants the freedom to do whatever he likes but does not want everyone else to have the same freedom which IMHO is far too common these days (hint: one of the reason SWG NGE hit was people disliking other's freedoms) .

     

    As for the guy who had cancer who got ganked...despicable as that may seem he forgot the first rule of EVE: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. because that gank may have happened even without his friend's help... shit happens all the time in EVE. That said I personally take a hard line against people who, for whatever reason, get or expect preferential treatment in EVE because I personally have health issue, nowhere near as severe as cancer for example but sufficient that a strong enough blow, which would be non-fatal otherwise, could outright kill me, and find the notion of people giving me any kind of special treatment disgusting (I've left corps in the past for this, I prefer getting ganked to the ganker going "Oh... you have issues... ok I will not shoot you but shoot your friends!" ).

     

    EVE is a sandbox, it is not inherently evil or inherently good that is dictated by the players within and say what you will about that freedom to choose but do not take away from it with "If it damages the game you get banned" because that rule can and has been used to cry wolf in many games before and developers less sure of their vision have fallen for it but CCP while it has that rule applies it only in extreme cases to preserve player freedoms. You want to blame someone for the game being so hostile? Blame the players because we as a whole have a few psychopaths and sociopaths amongst our ranks but just like in real life: If he/she ain't looking at me I do not care.

    One of the very few reasonable responses to this ridiculous thread. 

    Because he agrees with you.

     

    In Everquest ( bringing it up cause mentioned it a few posts back ) ninja-looting,training,harassment ect was bannable. They put in their "play-nice" policy for a reason.

    Harassment in any MMO should be bannable. If you all want to keep comparing Eve to real life fine, but in real life there is consequences for your actions. Continually harassing someone in real life is called stalking.

    I honestly don't care what you degenerates do to each other. It is a pvp game after all and the company that owns it makes it no secret they get off on the sadomasochism. When someone makes a post like this tho I will show empathy.

    Well first off Everquest (I assume you mean the first) was the prototype for themeparks which WoW iterated upon with great success so comparing a themepark with a sandbox including the rules by which these are governed is not smart at all considering what is good for one is bad for another especially considering the types of people the draw and the sort of community you want to build.

    Harassment which goes against the rules of the game (such as teamkilling in say World of Tanks, exploiting glitches to grief someone in something like EVE,etc) but if it is a simple brawl between e-peen users then the developer rarely gets involved and when they do it usually ends badly for them not the parties involved.

    Us degenerates have a growing thriving game which has survived with the P2P model in an age in which every other MMO has gone F2P, is in deep shit or is WoW in the western market. Kind of funny how that works out, right? Now kindly go back to whatever soon to go F2P game you are playing and leave us degenerates with may quite possibly be the last bastion of P2P in the end.

     

    Addendum: To those who know my posting history: I advocate F2P on an almost universal scale except for games like EVE-Online, long standing sandboxes, where a F2P/B2P conversion may destroy the player made systems/groups utterly and wreck the experience completely.

     

    Edit:

    Dear Christ OP... you have no case against the guy... if you both were in Iceland maybe, if you both were from the same country and it had the same law maybe but you would get laughed out of the police station when you go to report "A mean man called me a pedo online in a game I play!" because there's a big difference between cyberbulling (actual harassment) and playing the metagame in EVE.

    Well first off the Everquest reference was too the guy that replied to you.

    I will got back to my soon to go F2P mmo thank you! When can I tell blizzard not to charge me 15$ anymore?

    edit. If someone is continually making alts to bypass the ignore system to harass you then yes this should be bannable in all MMOs

    Had you originally typed it that way, then I might perhaps slightly agree, but you did not word it that way.  Therefore I stand by my statement.  But I like your posts :)  Specifically the one where you are the first to apologize for labeling the entire eve community, and that is the main point really.  I do feel for OP, but EVE is the way it is.  

    I came off harsh in my first few posts. I generalized everyone in haste. Again I apologize.

    The few instances of real abuse skewed my viewpoint.

     

    And the fact you think EVE has nigh-on unlimited character slots (like WoW) works in your disadvantage...each account is hard locked to 3 slots, thus 3 possible characters, to have more than 2 alts you need another account and to block someone you need all of 1-2 minutes at most... I mean even with trial accounts a griefer will get bored to tears if you keep blocking him and will do something stupid (like try to gank you).

    image
  • sgtalonsgtalon Lenox, MIPosts: 128Member Uncommon

    I have played EVE off and on since they started in ... 2003 maybe. I have had good experiences and bad experiences.

    The best was when I actually found a Corp that was from a Christian Gaming Clan. It was the first time I had ever been successful in Nullsec and part of a large coalition alliance.

    Then there was the last time I played where the group of young punks insisted on fighting around the Jita area. That was just a large pile of stupid. First time i ever got sick of a game because of the people in it rather than the gameplay. And most of them were in the corp I joined!

    EVE is exactly what the future will be when we are roaming the stars. Filled with good and bad. The farther away from civilization you get, the further away from decency you get. I think it is a perfect reflection of Human Society.

    And that is what makes it such an amazing game. If I had more time to game and invest into it I would probably still be playing EVE.

  • TerminalDeityTerminalDeity fairfield, OHPosts: 106Member

    Eve is not like other "games". It's a crucible. If you can't take it, get out.

    I, for one, enjoy the absolute freedom. However, anything goes, and you should expect it.

    So much whine in this thread. You people need to grow up.

  • calranthecalranthe stoke on trentPosts: 356Member

    "has cancer immune to unfair game play" I do not know what universe you live in but please stop with the bleeding heart stuff.

    People get cancer or other life threatening illness all the time does this or should this mean they get a "free pass" no it should not a person getting cancer did nothing amazing, did nothing worth while they just got cancer and survived or not survived a roll of the dice.

    Most of them would actually be quite insulted by your attitude, same with disabled people, they deserve NOT to be treated differently, not to be handled with kid gloves.

    EVE punishes stupidity, it always has, it is the ultimate form of darwinism in game format, thousands of scams for money and entertainment go on in that game but it is your greed or lack of common sense that will cause you to fall victim.

    If you are mentally ill or your life hangs by a thread then unplug your computer from the internet or have a guardian watching you to keep you from all the bad people online.

    A lot of people who try to get into alliances do so because they see all the media coverage they are like groupies and every step of the way there is information online to avoid the scams.

    Just because a person lived through a life threatening illness or any other bad situation real life does not in any way and should NOT in any way give them special treatment in a game, especially a game known to be hardcore which most of its media coverage covers these things.

  • RavingRabbidRavingRabbid Virginia beach, VAPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    Eve in unfortunately what it is, a griefing sandbox game.  Every game has good and bad players, but not all the community are horrible players.  However with that said IMHO CCP allows things to go too far and does need to reign things in. 

    It's only a matter of time before something does happen and CCP is sued. It's EuLA can't hide from federal, state, and local laws especially with cyber bullying.

    All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
    Playing: SWTOR, ESO, WOT, and Marvel Heroes

  • MalfussMalfuss LondonPosts: 3Member
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

    Actually this is incorrect - I provided proof that a) the person was following me for months b) https://i.imgur.com/ZF5NuiJ.png  You can see in this image the person states they are specifically targetting me for harassment.  c) https://i.imgur.com/Ae8WArd.png  You can see in this image the person admitting what I proposed they said to me was true.

    And really it doesn't matter.  No one deserves to have a player or players following them for months non-stop for no other reason than to harass them.  End of story. its wrong.

    Ok, in response:

    a) I saw no proof presented that showed he had been following you for months. If it was there I apologise, but all I recall is you stating it.

    b) Agreed, but we only have your side of the story. How do we know the alts weren't made in response to you following and constantly harassing him/his corp with your 6-7 alts? Supposition.

    c) Sorry but I don't see proof there. I see the word 'and' but cannot see what context it was used in. Agreed, he could have been using it as you depicted, he could also have been using it to follow on from a previous message that we can't see on screen, or, he could have been starting another message that he didn't finish, he even started his next post with 'and'. Again, supposition.

    As I said before, I have nothing against you, I don't know you other than being the player on the other side of Infinity. I appreciate that you can't see the wood for the trees as you feel you have been wronged but your post started off as a rant then went on to feed your sense of self entitlement. Then, and this is the only bit I really care about, in an act of pure petulance you went and started slagging off Eve. Not just on the Eve forums but felt the need to 'spread the word' by posting it over here and claiming that all of Eve and the Eve players are typical of this. Eve, a game that has kept you subscribed for years, a game that you enjoyed and had fun with for years, all because CCP didn't agree with you. I'm sorry, but if you can't see why people trolled you I worry for your health.

    As for your last couple of sentences, I agree, it is wrong to be harassed for months but your actions after it leave a hell of a lot to be deserved as well.

  • RodentofdoomRodentofdoom NottinghamPosts: 273Member


    Originally posted by Horusra Not sure how effective their ACTIVE monitoring is. They seem to always be on the late side of issues.
     

    It's one of their faster turnover areas on petition queries.


    One of my roles for my Corp is Recruitment Officer, so I'm quite frequently lurking in one of those listed newbie systems.

  • MalfussMalfuss LondonPosts: 3Member
    Originally posted by Rigur

    I appreciate your post. I did not mean to attack the community as a whole. I know the good people out number the bad. I guess it's just like hearing or watching the news it gets you riled up. I apologize.

    No problem, it gets me riled up when I see people attacking the Eve community. By far the majority I have ever encountered have been decent people, even a lot of the others are just playing to their online persona. By the same token I know there are unsavoury characters that play it.

  • killahhkillahh calgary, ABPosts: 437Member

    no, op has it right, EVE is a cesspit.

     

    i played EVE from day three till last year, and frankly, i had it all,  mothership, on down, , an alt ect. but.............

    took a small two month break , came back and omwtfgawd, once your good friends have quit or moved on to different games  you can see how ugly the community is.

    for a few months i solod, and attempted to join  a few decent corps, in coalitions i identified with, and it was nothing more than how to seperate me from my armada, money and kill me.

    alas for them, i wasnt new on the block,  so each and every time, and seriously EVERY corp , all 5 attempts to join, tried this, and i foiled their retarded attempt to scam / kill me.

    so ive retired, perma.

     

     2 accounts with 10 years of skilling up, money amassing, and plexes galor, rotting in a dark corner of the eve universe.

    and noone will ever get my stuff.

    Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  • KatillaKatilla Nashua, NHPosts: 682Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Bigdavo
    You have not answered my question, which leads me to believe there are ulterior motives to starting this thread. You are allowed to gank whoever you want in this game, however you want. Period. You can act as big a dick as you want but it is still within the acceptable rules of the EvE universe. There is no preferential treatment just because you are suffering a disability or have overcome cancer. Now unless the gank victim was bullied/victimized/harassed/mocked afterwards, particularly because of his condition, it is out of CCP's hands. So I ask again. Were they?

    Sorry m8 but where I come from we wouldn't even have to ask that question.  We would never scam, grief or mess with a person we knew had cancer, especially if they'd been friends with us before they got it and had to leave EvE to deal with it..  Its dirty, low and shows a complete lack of respect not just for the person with cancer but for yourself and your family.

     

    Its called having self respect and pride.  

    So ditch the entire game because it has a group of idiots?

    Do you ever go out there in the real world, because if not, you might be in for a shock when you don't see the entire world singing sings around a campfire.

     

    OP: consider quitting any mplayer game if you are shocked every time you run into a a$$hat.

    I agree with the OP on this one, there is not enbough balance of douchebags to nice people in this game. I quit a long time ago because of people who do these things, and left all my stuff to rot on thier server.

  • BoldynBoldyn PartillePosts: 265Member

    Are you thinking about playing EVE?

     

    Are you reckless, naive and not the sharpest tool? Then don't.

     

    Otherwise, go ahead and enjoy massive freedom.

     

    This has been known since Before the game was released, Wake up.

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member
    Originally posted by kairel182

    Not everyone is an asshat in Eve.   Goonswarm represent the bottom rung of the barrel, infamous for their douchebaggery round the world.

     

    That being said, get over it.  The game works around giving freedom.  Sometimes people abuse those freedoms, just like in real life.  The game operates under the premise that you have the same amount of freedoms as other players.  There is a risk in everything you do in game regardless of where you are or who you're playing with.  There have been loyal players whom have been bought out and stabbed their own Alliance in the back and caused irreversible territorial damage in null-sec, costing billion of ISK.  Just as there are hundreds of other stories, from the costliest online battle (recently featured on this site) in any online setting.  These freedoms allow for things and stories like these to flourish.

    Yes, there are people who scam/grief/troll in Eve.  Surprise, welcome to the internet.  You have those types of "people" in every game.  This one just happens to allow more freedom and thus they have larger impacts with their douchebaggery.  This doesn't mean you should take away freedoms.  There are negative things happening with-in the USA all the time which are directly related to the country allowing a large amount of freedom, it doesn't mean you should start stamping that out.  This very foundation is the reason why Eve is just a fascinating and awe-inspiring universe.

    That's right, universe.  It's not just a world, let alone merely a game.  These principles allow players to forge their own stories and alliances, just as well as they make enemies.  These people are often labeled as such and there are particular sub-sects that do their part to counter people such as the Goonswarm.  Just like there are people that run things such as Eve University corporation to take in newbies and train them on the games extremely harsh learning curve.

    It takes all kinds, evil included, to allow good to exist.  Nothing is more prevalent in online game than Eve to showcase this aspect.

    While I can find freedom and there is always griefing acceptable in any PvP centric game, however when they allowed the leader of Goonswarm to inctice the player population to pressure a player to commit suicide,,,, that is inexcusable to any company, and for that player to not be permaband just goes to show what CCP's stance is.  That act alone deters me from playing EVE again or any CCP game for that matter... ever, even if its solely on the matter of principle.

    Now maybe there is more to the story than I know, the only facts I know is that cumguzzler urged people to try to make someone commit suicide (which is involuntary manslaughter), CCP didn't permaban that player, and alcohol is no excuse just like a drunk driver has no right to blame alcohol for slamming into a vehicle head on on a one way ramp and killing a couple. 

    CCP sunk to a despiseable low when then never did anything meaningful.  I truly hope that Pathfinder Online takes a huge dent out of EVE's subs if only for the simple pleasure of seeing karma biting CCP in the ass.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    This is not news really. I can't actively recommend the game to anyone with the state of the community and CCP's inability to govern their own game. It's why I left EVE year's ago. It attracts the worst people in the MMO genre.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by furbans
    Originally posted by kairel182

    Not everyone is an asshat in Eve.   Goonswarm represent the bottom rung of the barrel, infamous for their douchebaggery round the world.

     

    That being said, get over it.  The game works around giving freedom.  Sometimes people abuse those freedoms, just like in real life.  The game operates under the premise that you have the same amount of freedoms as other players.  There is a risk in everything you do in game regardless of where you are or who you're playing with.  There have been loyal players whom have been bought out and stabbed their own Alliance in the back and caused irreversible territorial damage in null-sec, costing billion of ISK.  Just as there are hundreds of other stories, from the costliest online battle (recently featured on this site) in any online setting.  These freedoms allow for things and stories like these to flourish.

    Yes, there are people who scam/grief/troll in Eve.  Surprise, welcome to the internet.  You have those types of "people" in every game.  This one just happens to allow more freedom and thus they have larger impacts with their douchebaggery.  This doesn't mean you should take away freedoms.  There are negative things happening with-in the USA all the time which are directly related to the country allowing a large amount of freedom, it doesn't mean you should start stamping that out.  This very foundation is the reason why Eve is just a fascinating and awe-inspiring universe.

    That's right, universe.  It's not just a world, let alone merely a game.  These principles allow players to forge their own stories and alliances, just as well as they make enemies.  These people are often labeled as such and there are particular sub-sects that do their part to counter people such as the Goonswarm.  Just like there are people that run things such as Eve University corporation to take in newbies and train them on the games extremely harsh learning curve.

    It takes all kinds, evil included, to allow good to exist.  Nothing is more prevalent in online game than Eve to showcase this aspect.

    While I can find freedom and there is always griefing acceptable in any PvP centric game, however when they allowed the leader of Goonswarm to inctice the player population to pressure a player to commit suicide,,,, that is inexcusable to any company, and for that player to not be permaband just goes to show what CCP's stance is.  That act alone deters me from playing EVE again or any CCP game for that matter... ever, even if its solely on the matter of principle.

    Now maybe there is more to the story than I know, the only facts I know is that cumguzzler urged people to try to make someone commit suicide (which is involuntary manslaughter), CCP didn't permaban that player, and alcohol is no excuse just like a drunk driver has no right to blame alcohol for slamming into a vehicle head on on a one way ramp and killing a couple. 

    CCP sunk to a despiseable low when then never did anything meaningful.  I truly hope that Pathfinder Online takes a huge dent out of EVE's subs if only for the simple pleasure of seeing karma biting CCP in the ass.

    They may have banned him but he apologized to the community and to the respective player and stepped down from CSM chair on his own. For someone so quick to judge other's actions you forget the steps he took to right things which tells me you are a part of the story somehow.

     

    Also Pathfinder Online,and any other game, will never threaten EVE because just like WoW and WoT it is a titan in its area and has a decade's worth of content behind it already. Also never wish ill on someone so you can take enjoyment in it then mention karma in the same sentence... those two concepts are mutually exclusive.

    image
  • IkonoclastiaIkonoclastia SydneyPosts: 185Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Malfuss
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

    Actually this is incorrect - I provided proof that a) the person was following me for months b) https://i.imgur.com/ZF5NuiJ.png  You can see in this image the person states they are specifically targetting me for harassment.  c) https://i.imgur.com/Ae8WArd.png  You can see in this image the person admitting what I proposed they said to me was true.

    And really it doesn't matter.  No one deserves to have a player or players following them for months non-stop for no other reason than to harass them.  End of story. its wrong.

    Ok, in response:

    a) I saw no proof presented that showed he had been following you for months. If it was there I apologise, but all I recall is you stating it.

    b) Agreed, but we only have your side of the story. How do we know the alts weren't made in response to you following and constantly harassing him/his corp with your 6-7 alts? Supposition.

    c) Sorry but I don't see proof there. I see the word 'and' but cannot see what context it was used in. Agreed, he could have been using it as you depicted, he could also have been using it to follow on from a previous message that we can't see on screen, or, he could have been starting another message that he didn't finish, he even started his next post with 'and'. Again, supposition.

    As I said before, I have nothing against you, I don't know you other than being the player on the other side of Infinity. I appreciate that you can't see the wood for the trees as you feel you have been wronged but your post started off as a rant then went on to feed your sense of self entitlement. Then, and this is the only bit I really care about, in an act of pure petulance you went and started slagging off Eve. Not just on the Eve forums but felt the need to 'spread the word' by posting it over here and claiming that all of Eve and the Eve players are typical of this. Eve, a game that has kept you subscribed for years, a game that you enjoyed and had fun with for years, all because CCP didn't agree with you. I'm sorry, but if you can't see why people trolled you I worry for your health.

    As for your last couple of sentences, I agree, it is wrong to be harassed for months but your actions after it leave a hell of a lot to be deserved as well.

    What actions after it.  I was harassed for months.  I then posted a thread about it on the EvE forums, the response from the forum was to spend 24 hours non stop harassing, belittling, insulting, and berating me for complaining.   What was my big crime, oh that I posted that I was warned by a GM after the person harassing me petitioned me for saying the F word.  What a terrible Evil person I am for mentioning that I was warned by a GM.  What a load of crap.

    I find it really ironic that my thread was locked for mentioning that I was warned by a GM for saying the F word when the thread in question had people in it using the F word and they didn't get moderated.  Why because the ISD, CPP, the CSM is full of Goonswarm.  If you're a special snowflake the moderators will allow you to say whatever you like, if your'e not a special snowflake (not a goon or friend of a goon) you'll get moderated instantly, threads locked and warned.

    I came here to MMORPG because the ISD locked my threads, removing my ability to communicate on the forum I pay money to use, because the ISD is a biased idiot.  I gaurantee you he's a goon.

     

    I sent him a mail 48 hours ago asking him to unlock the second thread which didn't breach any forum rules and I got no reply at all.  After being harassed constantly and reporting numerous offensive personal attacks involving users calling me an idiot to attacking my sexual orientation, mental health and so on I decided that the only place to actually get this out in the open was a non-EvE online forum because the moderators on the EvE O forums are biased.

    So excuse me if you don't like me attacking the EvE community but frankly, given the abuse and crap I have had to read on the EvE forums over the last 24 hours, they are from my personal experience and have proven themselves to be, pretty much scum.

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,583Member Uncommon
    Not sure I would say Eve has content in the traditional sense. More that people are time invested.
This discussion has been closed.