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Huge pay to win

2

Comments

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 11,070Member Rare

    The problem with such a huge pay to win gets worse as the game progresses and that is another question,HOW does the game move forward from here?

    I have seen it all as i have played this game a LOT in the  short time since i started playing.

    Many already have the cards they need ,so what is next?More orange cards and have players grind for them,but what if the players don't need those,then what?Make cards that are so o/p that players just outright buy tons of packs so they can start reaping the rewards faster?O/p the NEXT generation of cards is always a bad design but one that is assured because they NEED to entice spending.

    It takes a VERY long time to amass the cards and until then you play for free as i have done.Yes it is still fun,anyone that likes card games will love it.However the valuable cards offer a BIG advantage and that is they have very powerful multiple abilities,basically like playing 2 cards for the price of one.

    I have won many a game going the freebie route but the odd time i hit a player that is using a HQ deck,i get smoked with no chance at all.The reason these multi ability cards are so powerful is because the game design is basically a trade one card for one card.You put out a 3/2 or a 2/3 and i match it with similar.This happens all the way until someone gains the advantage with the HQ cards.

    It takes a lot of winning to get 150 gold to enter ONE Arena and then it becomes a total crap shoot.Unless you have played a lot of arena you will not know the trend of cards and there is a huge difference from one Arena to the next.

    Still as the game gets more HQ cards it becomes a game that further the gaps between new player and old.It is a really bad design because more and more players will already have powerful synergy decks leaving new players with a lose..lose ..lose scenario.Only way they can catch up is by spending LOTS of money.

    What they SHOULD have done or maybe will is create seasons of cards,meaning you have to use ONLY the newest season to build a deck and not all your cards.Then have all matches needing gold ,perhaps 50 to enter,winner gets 110 and so on to match the present reward system.Otherwise maybe 2-3 years later there will be 200 HQ cards all with synergy,no way a new player is jumping in and competing versus that.

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  • sportsfansportsfan BlankenbergePosts: 431Member

    As stated. Doing the daily every day and get the usual 3 wins will give you 15 booster packs per month FREE.

    As the basic cards are free too and you get at least 1 or 2 rares or better with each booster pack along with the regular cards, I really don't know ANY other decent CCG that's so cheap to play.

    My son didn't pay for anything and he is reaching rank 7 out of 25 already after 2/3 months play.

    So what's the fuzz?

    Actually Wzardry playing a Blizzard game makes me smile. :)

    As a new player I would avoid Arena play btw until you studied the many tutorials on drafting decks from pros you see on Twitch etc ...

     

     

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,351Member Rare

    Its fun.. 

     

    in game A people are complaining that subs are a thing of the past

    While in game B the same people are complaining the FTp game is pay to win..

     

    Everyone just need to face the truth once and for all..

    Nothing comes for Free in life, espescially not games that are created to make money for their investors.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • sportsfansportsfan BlankenbergePosts: 431Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Its fun..    in game A people are complaining that subs are a thing of the past While in game B the same people are complaining the FTp game is pay to win..   Everyone just need to face the truth once and for all.. Nothing comes for Free in life, espescially not games that are created to make money for their investors.

    If you would compare HS with other CCG's like Magic though, it shows there is a huge difference.

    - Basic cards are free

    - In 6 months time you could easely get 90 HS booster packs (with at least one rare or more per pack) for FREE just by doing the dalies and ... play without paying a dollar. In Magic that would set you back around 300 dollars...

     

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,530Member Uncommon

    All trading card games have the same 2 themes:

     

    > You have to pay a modest amount to be averagely competitive.

     

    > You have to be rich in order to have a realistic chance of being the best.

     

    But what stops me from playing card games is none of these things - it's that there is no world to explore.

  • randmprandmp angola, INPosts: 54Member
    I agree with the op, this is a big pay to win game. If you have the money you will do great, If you don't you will not. The reason i don't like it is, what is the point. There is really no reward system to it. You lose no big deal, you win no big deal. It is not  mmo. This is just another fail title on the market.
  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member Uncommon

    I have a hard time paying money for 'cards' that I do not also get in rl, to play with friends.  I have not played this, but I do own a lot of MtG cards, and I couldn't get myself to play online and pay for cards.  I wish they had a option to pay extra and you could get the cards you have in the game, also shipped to you, then I would be more likely to do it.  I know that may be a bit much for every single card, but if you wait till say you have 50/100 cards or something, and have them shipped... 

     

    I read about Hearthstone, it seemed like a less complicated/simpler MtG, I like the complexity of MtG though, yeah the rule sets and such can be a little much sometimes, but I like the complexity of making the decks and different things you can do.  Not sure I would like something that is simplified.

  • GinazGinaz Calgary, ABPosts: 1,838Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    No you don't have to buy but if you do like some that have already bought over 100 packs,there is a huge disparity in cards. Even their auto match maker is really bad,example i was constantly matched versus players with more unlocked decks than me and seemed every single card they played was o/p. Soon i seen the decks with very powerful multi-mechanic cards,i just esc and concede,not much fun there.I have been a long time member of MTGO and MTG regular cards and played SOE's version,i won't be supporting these games anymore with money.

    Welcome to almost every TCG/CCG in existence.  You must be new to the genre to be complaining about it.  Hearthstone, in fact, is less p2w than say, Magic: The Gathering, because there are ways you can grind it out and acquire cards for free.  That's not the case with Magic and many other TCG's.  If you're upset about it, maybe this isn't the genre of games for you.

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  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 16,652Member Epic
    Originally posted by Mr.SeriousGuy people that think they get past rank 10 because of skill and not the 2 molten / rag , 1 silvanas and 2 cairn in their decks are delusional

    You do, I hope, realize that a deck can have only one copy of a given legendary in it.

  • CreatorzimCreatorzim Perris, CAPosts: 273Member

    You must not be playing Heartstone because its not Pay to Win what so ever. You can play and not spend a dime on this game and win the majority of your fights if luck is not against you.

    If you are losing it is because you spend your gold poorly, you should be buying the arenas which is a draft which anyone with 150 gold can win at if you dont suck at the game which gets you tons of cards, gold, and dust. 

    Save up your dust if you want legendary cards.

    You can get gold easily by playing the computer or randoms and completing quests. Make sure you unlocked all your free cards for each class.

    All you have to do is play a ton and you can get all the cards you want for free. Just depends on how much time you put in it. If you dont want to put time into the game you have two options

    Buy cards to relieve the time you would spend earning gold on your own

    Or 

    Quit. Because you just want all the cards handed to you and dont want to put any effort into the game.

    image

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,530Member Uncommon

    I buy cards, and I think there is an element of pay-to-win. This is because I tend to win if I can bring out my expensive legendary cards. However, I lose most of the time to players who have played so often that they know what cards I'm likely to play and have prepared a counter to it. These players usually don't need legendary cards. 

     

    A disadvantage of expensive legendary cards is that, apart from the murloc and rogue deck, they don't combine as well with other cards compared to standard cards.

     

    So I would rate experience above money in what determines a win.

     

     

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,530Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Creatorzim
    You must not be playing Heartstone because its not Pay to Win what so ever. You can play and not spend a dime on this game and win the majority of your fights if luck is not against you. If you are losing it is because you spend your gold poorly, you should be buying the arenas which is a draft which anyone with 150 gold can win at if you dont suck at the game which gets you tons of cards, gold, and dust.  Save up your dust if you want legendary cards. You can get gold easily by playing the computer or randoms and completing quests. Make sure you unlocked all your free cards for each class. All you have to do is play a ton and you can get all the cards you want for free. Just depends on how much time you put in it. If you dont want to put time into the game you have two options Buy cards to relieve the time you would spend earning gold on your own Or  Quit. Because you just want all the cards handed to you and dont want to put any effort into the game.

     

    The problem with arena is that you must win at least 4-6 matches for it to be worthwhile in terms of rewards. Most beginners will be lucky if they win 1 match, and very lucky if they win 3 matches - even though they have 3 lives!

     

    You need a lot of experience before even considering playing arena.

  • majimaji ColognePosts: 2,057Member Uncommon

    Yep, it's pay to win. The only "not pay to win" part is the arena. Everything else: the more boosters you buy the more legendaries you have the more games you will win, since legendaries are in 90% of all cases soooo much better than other cards.

    In other CCGs like MTGO they are some cards as well that are definately better than others. But there you can trade for them. You can't do that in Hearthstone. There you buy boosters. Well, you can also destroy hundreds of your cards to get another one. Which, compared to 1vs1 trades, ensures that your collection is getting smaller and smaller, unless you buy boosters.

     

    So, yep, the lack of a trading system and the pay to win issue make sure that Hearthstone is nothing else but a cheap money grab from Blizzard.

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  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,530Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maji
    Yep, it's pay to win. The only "not pay to win" part is the arena. Everything else: the more boosters you buy the more legendaries you have the more games you will win, since legendaries are in 90% of all cases soooo much better than other cards. In other CCGs like MTGO they are some cards as well that are definately better than others. But there you can trade for them. You can't do that in Hearthstone. There you buy boosters. Well, you can also destroy hundreds of your cards to get another one. Which, compared to 1vs1 trades, ensures that your collection is getting smaller and smaller, unless you buy boosters.   So, yep, the lack of a trading system and the pay to win issue make sure that Hearthstone is nothing else but a cheap money grab from Blizzard.

     

    You are assuming that each Hearthstone card has equal value. Some cards can be destroyed to make other cards without thought - it's a no-brainer. For example, all gold cards can be destroyed and even some useless legendaries.

     

    Hearthstone is pay-to-win, up to a point (if you want to rank up to get Legendary status), but you still might not because you need to have experience / skill as well.

     

    I've bought enough cards that will allow me to reach the Legendary rank, but the maximum rank I make is 16 because I don't have the experience.  :ol

  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Austin, TXPosts: 1,570Member Epic

    All CCG's are pay to win.  This shouldn't even be part of the discussion.

    It would be like having a discussion about the space shuttle and someone is surprised that it goes into space... I mean, that's the point.

    This is coming from someone who has played MtG, Netrunner, Mechwarrior, LotFR, Warlord, V:TES and dozens of other card games over the past twenty years.  P2W is just part and parcel of the CCG industry and honestly, I'm shocked and astounded that it took the big gaming companies this long to come up with a digital CCG, MTG Online not withstanding.

    The real shame in Hearthstone is that it's one of the most shallow and thoughtless card games I've ever played.  It has all the mental depth of a petri dish and yet was created by a company that has earnings in the billions every year.  Either they believe their customer base is made primarily of window licking ear biters that can't comprehend complexity, or they just didn't try very hard to come up with good game mechanics.

    I mean for heavens sake, with their earnings they could have hired the master Richard Garfield himself to help design the game.  Instead I feel like any kindergarten class could have come up with the game mechanics in a day.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member Common
    Originally posted by h0urg1ass
    All CCG's are pay to win.  This shouldn't even be part of the discussion. It would be like having a discussion about the space shuttle and someone is surprised that it goes into space... I mean, that's the point. This is coming from someone who has played MtG, Netrunner, Mechwarrior, LotFR, Warlord, V:TES and dozens of other card games over the past twenty years.  P2W is just part and parcel of the CCG industry and honestly, I'm shocked and astounded that it took the big gaming companies this long to come up with a digital CCG, MTG Online not withstanding. The real shame in Hearthstone is that it's one of the most shallow and thoughtless card games I've ever played.  It has all the mental depth of a petri dish and yet was created by a company that has earnings in the billions every year.  Either they believe their customer base is made primarily of window licking ear biters that can't comprehend complexity, or they just didn't try very hard to come up with good game mechanics. I mean for heavens sake, with their earnings they could have hired the master Richard Garfield himself to help design the game.  Instead I feel like any kindergarten class could have come up with the game mechanics in a day.

     

    They want more than just a few people playing the game.  You said it yourself, they make billions of dollars every year.  You don't make that by building games with mechanics that not too many people want to bother learning.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONPosts: 4,033Member Rare
    Originally posted by genoshan
    I disagree about it being p2w. I thought this was the case originally also, but I did my quests, the hidden quests ( such as 100 wins ) and have managed to get legendaries a few times.   I actually save up 150 gold, run an arena and hope for profit. It works, often i get a pack, 60-100 gold and some enchanting material from one arena run... Unless I suck, i at least always get a pack of cards to open.

    You are guaranteed at least a pack if you enter the arena? DOH! I've just been buying packs alone! Didn't know about the added upside of the arena. 

    Crazkanuk

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  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,513Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    No you don't have to buy but if you do like some that have already bought over 100 packs,there is a huge disparity in cards. Even their auto match maker is really bad,example i was constantly matched versus players with more unlocked decks than me and seemed every single card they played was o/p. Soon i seen the decks with very powerful multi-mechanic cards,i just esc and concede,not much fun there.I have been a long time member of MTGO and MTG regular cards and played SOE's version,i won't be supporting these games anymore with money.

    it's a trading card game where you cannot trade cards.

    of cors ot's pay 2 win... you can buy ALL cards with decks and then rock the shit out of them ^^

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  • jesteralwaysjesteralways BangladeshPosts: 2,560Member Rare
    I remember when i was 9; I used to play G.I.Joe tcg with my cousin. he had more cards than me; he bought them all from the store; a lot of them. He won every single match against me. The one time he lost was the time he set a rule that he would only use cards that i am using, he said he was bored just winning against me; after he lost 1st time he never felt bored winning against me later, well we played about 100 matches and then he left for UK. that is my story, i always thought tcg was about buying more cards from store and winning. so am i wrong? or is it perfectly alright to do that kind of business in real life situation but it is horrendous to do in online tcg?

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  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,530Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by h0urg1ass
    All CCG's are pay to win.  This shouldn't even be part of the discussion. It would be like having a discussion about the space shuttle and someone is surprised that it goes into space... I mean, that's the point. This is coming from someone who has played MtG, Netrunner, Mechwarrior, LotFR, Warlord, V:TES and dozens of other card games over the past twenty years.  P2W is just part and parcel of the CCG industry and honestly, I'm shocked and astounded that it took the big gaming companies this long to come up with a digital CCG, MTG Online not withstanding. The real shame in Hearthstone is that it's one of the most shallow and thoughtless card games I've ever played.  It has all the mental depth of a petri dish and yet was created by a company that has earnings in the billions every year.  Either they believe their customer base is made primarily of window licking ear biters that can't comprehend complexity, or they just didn't try very hard to come up with good game mechanics. I mean for heavens sake, with their earnings they could have hired the master Richard Garfield himself to help design the game.  Instead I feel like any kindergarten class could have come up with the game mechanics in a day.

     

    I disagree with you that Hearthstone is less complex than MTGO (which must surely be the gold standard).

     

    Hearthstone might appear to be less complex simply because there are not as many cards yet. That is bound to change.

     

    If you really think that Hearthstone does not have the potential to be equally as complex as MTGO, I would genuinely love to know why.

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,530Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    No you don't have to buy but if you do like some that have already bought over 100 packs,there is a huge disparity in cards. Even their auto match maker is really bad,example i was constantly matched versus players with more unlocked decks than me and seemed every single card they played was o/p. Soon i seen the decks with very powerful multi-mechanic cards,i just esc and concede,not much fun there.I have been a long time member of MTGO and MTG regular cards and played SOE's version,i won't be supporting these games anymore with money.

    it's a trading card game where you cannot trade cards.

    of cors ot's pay 2 win... you can buy ALL cards with decks and then rock the shit out of them ^^

     

    I think it's better that Hearthstone is not a trading card game. If it was, like MTGO, cards such as the Black Lotus would cost thousands of dollars! 

     

    As it is, the most expensive Hearthstone cards would set you back 20 dollars for the crafting materials. It would be far cheaper still (cost nothing?)  to destroy the cards you will obviously never use and craft the exact legendary you want.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 16,652Member Epic
    If you could trade cards, then what happens when your account gets hacked and all your good cards get traded away for random junk?  Blizzard surely didn't want to deal with that, and I'll bet that played a major role in their decision not to allow trading with other players.
  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAPosts: 2,366Member Rare
    There is no such thing as P2W in a CCG ......
  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,770Member Uncommon

    Sounds like its not OP's type of game. 

     

    Hearthstone was designed to attract the card game crowd. Specifically, people into Magic the Gathering. A fact that you may not like about these games is that more variety comes with more money spent. While heathstone is pay to win (you do better if you put money into it regardless of what ANYONE here states), it is a game based off of something that has worked for decades in this specific genre. 

     

    I wish I could suggest a similar game that doesn't require money to be truly competitive, but frankly, I don't know any! 

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,770Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scorchien
    There is no such thing as P2W in a CCG ......

    When talking about card games based off of magic the gathering, your statement is categorically and undeniably wrong.

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