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Why are people obnoxious about ending games?

Scenario 1:  It's clear that I'm going to lose a game.  On my last turn, I saw that my opponent had enough on the board to kill me on his next turn.  I looked through my cards and found that I couldn't stop it.  I end my turn and all my opponent has to do is have a single minion already on the board attack my hero and that ends the game.

Some people will do the polite thing:  kill me to promptly end the game so that we can both get the reward for playing and move on.  But a large fraction won't.  Some will sit there and think for a while, play three cards, buff minions, heal his own hero, kill my last minion (which isn't a taunt), and finally get around to killing my hero after using the bulk of the time allowed for his turn.

Why do people do this?

To be clear, I'm not talking about situations where my opponent needs to play a few cards, clear my taunt minions, buff his own minions, or whatever to have a complicated last turn to win the game.  I can understand why it takes a while to think about that.  But when all it takes is this minion attacks my hero with no secrets on the board and the game is 100% guaranteed to end with no further actions?  I don't understand taking 40 seconds for a turn to do 5 other moves before ending it.

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Scenario 2:  It's clear that I'm going to win a game.  I have it set up so that I have enough on the board to end the game on my next turn unless my opponent can do something to defend against it (kill minions, drop a taunt, self-heal, etc.).  My opponent sees this, looks through his hand, and realizes that he's lost.

Some people will do the polite thing:  end his turn, let me kill him, and we both get the reward for playing and move on.  But an awful lot of people will decide to concede the match immediately instead.  Letting the match last another 5 seconds would increase the experience rewards for both of us.

This one, I'm a little more sympathetic to.  Some people may not care about experience; from the number of non-golden basic cards they're using, it's pretty obvious that they haven't hit the experience cap yet.  But if you don't care about golden cards, so be it.  And someone might reasonably worry that scenario #1 will play out, as seems to happen a lot.  But I still think it's annoying.

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Comments

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisMember Posts: 2,122 Uncommon

    At first I always played it out, but some players in the forums stated this was bad manners, and it is appropriate to concede if a player does not have the cards to continue.  

     

     

  • If I have a more elaborate way of winning I sometimes do that instead of the clear-cut way to practice or simply make the final turn more amusing, though i don't take time healing myself and other useless stuff just to piss off my opponent.

    One game that was really close I decided I wanted to do a real BM finish where I appear to not have an answer to my opponent's play and then play the winning card just before the end of my turn timer, but I felt so bad about it I couldn't go through with it and ended it quickly anyway :)

    I kind of prefer to win by killing the opponent rather than having him concede, so I usually don't concede myself so the opponent can get the satisfaction of ending the game his way if I'm on the losing side. Fun to watch sometimes to see what they do if they have some silly play.

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes ZabbarMember Posts: 3,376 Rare

    Sometimes I let them give me a killing blow but if I start seeing them buffing monsters, destroying my own or some shit instead of ending it I'll surrender.

    There's one thing being friendly there's another being an ass.


  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member Posts: 16,736 Epic
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    At first I always played it out, but some players in the forums stated this was bad manners, and it is appropriate to concede if a player does not have the cards to continue.  

    Conceding prematurely means that both players get less experience.  Once you've got all of the basic cards, you may or may not still care about experience, but when you're playing a class that is below level 10 it's frustrating to be on the cusp of a hard-earned win, only to be denied some of the experience you were expecting because the other guy conceded.

    That said, I do what bloodaxes said, too.  If you could readily kill me in one attack and make other moves without killing me, you obviously don't care about experience.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember Posts: 11,155 Rare
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    At first I always played it out, but some players in the forums stated this was bad manners, and it is appropriate to concede if a player does not have the cards to continue.      

    Actually the term "Bad Manners " comes from the broadcast games and maybe goes back to the serious Starcraft days.

    It is not really about conceding it is HOW you win.Example if all you need to do is hit them with a creature,you do it,but if you want to achieve the BM status you rub it in by prolonging and try to force them to concede.

    Epoch "Team Dogehouse" i guess was the first big name BM player but now many of the stars try to use a lot of BM,they say it is all in fun,sort of like trash talking but without the talking.

    Trash talking goes on in EVERY sport now ,yes even Esports.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • MorningStarGGMorningStarGG Lamar, MOMember Posts: 394 Uncommon
    I see an equally large number that refuse to end themselves when they know it's over. If you know you are going to lose, then just go into the menu and end the game. Admit defeat. Why wait for the other person to finish you off? This goes both ways...

    Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHMember Posts: 5,735 Uncommon

    sometimes a player wants to use this super-combo he's been saving all game...and there aren't any other occasions but the last turn

     

    image

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIMember Posts: 2,030 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    At first I always played it out, but some players in the forums stated this was bad manners, and it is appropriate to concede if a player does not have the cards to continue.  

    Conceding prematurely means that both players get less experience.  Once you've got all of the basic cards, you may or may not still care about experience, but when you're playing a class that is below level 10 it's frustrating to be on the cusp of a hard-earned win, only to be denied some of the experience you were expecting because the other guy conceded.

    That said, I do what bloodaxes said, too.  If you could readily kill me in one attack and make other moves without killing me, you obviously don't care about experience.

    You're lacking consistency in your application of the EXP argument. 

    According to the most convincing sources I could find (and it should be noted that none of them are 100% definitive), EXP is almost exclusively a function of how many actions a player performs.  So if your metric for what constitutes "good manners" is simply that which nets both players the most EXP, as you seem to imply here, then you should also be ok with players who take all those extra actions before killing you, even if they could have killed you with a single minion attack.  They might not net you any more EXP, but they'll give the winning player some well-deserved extra EXP.  

     

    Personally, I don't think any of that matters.  What constitutes good/bad manners, rudeness/politeness is completely subjective. What one person can intend in complete goodwill, another person can perceive as rude.  Some players, for example, interpret use of the "well played" emote as rude if the game was a blowout, and will actually get angry when they hear it; other players think it's the polite thing to say, regardless of how close the game was.  

    Even intentionally using bad manners isn't necessarily bad manners...lol.  In many of the shout-casted tournaments that have been streamed on twitch and youtube, many players have made a fun game out of who can end the game in a more rude manner. There's nothing actually rude about what they're doing, as they all generally mean it in good fun.  

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIMember Posts: 2,030 Uncommon
    Another relevant video of the moral relativity of bad manners that I just saw on reddit today and reminded me of this thread.  
  • jmsgallajmsgalla Steubenville, OHMember Posts: 271 Uncommon

    I have to be honest and admit that I am guilty of this.  However, I only do it when my opponent was dreadfully slow during the rest of the game.  I start to match their time and just screw around while the timer runs out.  

    It's not rocket science.  The time allotted is too long to begin with.

  • orionblackorionblack Wichita Falls, TXMember Posts: 493 Uncommon
    Umm..they do this because you can't reach out and strangle them like you could in real life!! image
  • MukeMuke Member Posts: 2,459 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Scenario 1:  It's clear that I'm going to lose a game.  On my last turn, I saw that my opponent had enough on the board to kill me on his next turn.  I looked through my cards and found that I couldn't stop it.  I end my turn and all my opponent has to do is have a single minion already on the board attack my hero and that ends the game. Some people will do the polite thing:  kill me to promptly end the game so that we can both get the reward for playing and move on.  But a large fraction won't.  Some will sit there and think for a while, play three cards, buff minions, heal his own hero, kill my last minion (which isn't a taunt), and finally get around to killing my hero after using the bulk of the time allowed for his turn. Why do people do this? To be clear, I'm not talking about situations where my opponent needs to play a few cards, clear my taunt minions, buff his own minions, or whatever to have a complicated last turn to win the game.  I can understand why it takes a while to think about that.  But when all it takes is this minion attacks my hero with no secrets on the board and the game is 100% guaranteed to end with no further actions?  I don't understand taking 40 seconds for a turn to do 5 other moves before ending it. ----- Scenario 2:  It's clear that I'm going to win a game.  I have it set up so that I have enough on the board to end the game on my next turn unless my opponent can do something to defend against it (kill minions, drop a taunt, self-heal, etc.).  My opponent sees this, looks through his hand, and realizes that he's lost. Some people will do the polite thing:  end his turn, let me kill him, and we both get the reward for playing and move on.  But an awful lot of people will decide to concede the match immediately instead.  Letting the match last another 5 seconds would increase the experience rewards for both of us. This one, I'm a little more sympathetic to.  Some people may not care about experience; from the number of non-golden basic cards they're using, it's pretty obvious that they haven't hit the experience cap yet.  But if you don't care about golden cards, so be it.  And someone might reasonably worry that scenario #1 will play out, as seems to happen a lot.  But I still think it's annoying.

    And these are just games that frustrate those players, they are like that in real life too, imagine what they do there when things don't go their way.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member Posts: 16,736 Epic
    Originally posted by Homitu According to the most convincing sources I could find (and it should be noted that none of them are 100% definitive), EXP is almost exclusively a function of how many actions a player performs.  So if your metric for what constitutes "good manners" is simply that which nets both players the most EXP, as you seem to imply here, then you should also be ok with players who take all those extra actions before killing you, even if they could have killed you with a single minion attack.  They might not net you any more EXP, but they'll give the winning player some well-deserved extra EXP.  

    You do raise a good point that I hadn't considered:  the number of turns that a game lasts is pretty strongly correlated with the number of actions that you take, the number of cards that you play, the number of minions killed, and so forth.  That makes it hard to distinguish between those and other, similar factors, especially with Blizzard hiding the exact numbers from us.

  • SemielSemiel NYMember Posts: 89 Uncommon

    Another possibility is people prolonging a game to fulfill quest requirements...

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonMember Posts: 1,536 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Semiel
    Another possibility is people prolonging a game to fulfill quest requirements...

     

    Yes, that's true. Yesterday, I had to cast 40 spells.

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKMember Posts: 2,380 Uncommon
    If I'm about to lose and give you the chance to kill me, and you start casting shit for overkill, then I simply concede and move on.
  • Yoottos'HorgYoottos'Horg Member Posts: 295 Uncommon

    I don't really mind a player buffing, healing, wiping the board, then going in for the final kill. It GENERALLY doesn't take too much longer for a player to do this (I'll throw out a SWAG and say an average of 8 seconds).

     

    What pisses me off to no end are players who...take...all...of...the...aloted...time...during the first 1-3 crystals. I mean c'mon! You only have so many variations and that's assuming you're hand is full of 1-3 crystal cards. I cannot conceive of a valid reason to sit there and ponder playing a Knife Juggler, or a Gollum, or a secret for, what, 60 seconds! I usually spam the greeting or threaten emote when they do this. I never thought a TCG would make me nerd rage but people who do this definitely bring out the worst in me.

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonMember Posts: 1,536 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yoottos'Horg
    I don't really mind a player buffing, healing, wiping the board, then going in for the final kill. It GENERALLY doesn't take too much longer for a player to do this (I'll throw out a SWAG and say an average of 8 seconds).   What pisses me off to no end are players who...take...all...of...the...aloted...time...during the first 1-3 crystals. I mean c'mon! You only have so many variations and that's assuming you're hand is full of 1-3 crystal cards. I cannot conceive of a valid reason to sit there and ponder playing a Knife Juggler, or a Gollum, or a secret for, what, 60 seconds! I usually spam the greeting or threaten emote when they do this. I never thought a TCG would make me nerd rage but people who do this definitely bring out the worst in me.

     

    Yes, I know what you mean. The first play in Hearthstone is like the first few moves in most chess games - they are automatic openers and can usually be done in seconds.

     

    I can only presume that people who delay at this stage are either beginners or having a conversation with somebody etc.

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTMember Posts: 1,678 Uncommon
    Tell you the truth I did not know there was experience to be had , of course I have yet to get below lvl 15. One thing I find annoying is when someone makes a good play and they come out with "sorry"
  • deniterdeniter KouvolaMember Posts: 995 Uncommon

    I didn't even know we get less exp if i concede :o

    I've lots of experience from Magic the Gathering and there it's considered polite to do concede to speed up the match if you're losing anyway.

    Looks like a design flaw to me.

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonMember Posts: 1,536 Uncommon
    Originally posted by deniter
    I didn't even know we get less exp if i concede :o I've lots of experience from Magic the Gathering and there it's considered polite to do concede to speed up the match if you're losing anyway. Looks like a design flaw to me.

     

    The gaining of exp might not be a good thing! 

     

    Imagine you are level 60, with a gold portrait, and you are still only Rank 20! That would be rather humiliating, would it not?!

  • BlasphimBlasphim San Diego, CAMember Posts: 349 Uncommon
    I have to agree with an earlier poster, some of the "overkill" spell casts and creature kills and summons are done for quest completion, I will let them do what they can before they kill me, and I would hope they would do the same before I beat them.  A couple of times, I have played against opponents that thought they could kill me at anytime after a point and were just being dingleberries, until I got the cards I needed and ended up coming back and winning.  I can only imagine the WTF face they had as they look at the defeat screen.
  • Yoottos'HorgYoottos'Horg Member Posts: 295 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Blasphim
    I have to agree with an earlier poster, some of the "overkill" spell casts and creature kills and summons are done for quest completion, I will let them do what they can before they kill me, and I would hope they would do the same before I beat them.  A couple of times, I have played against opponents that thought they could kill me at anytime after a point and were just being dingleberries, until I got the cards I needed and ended up coming back and winning.  I can only imagine the WTF face they had as they look at the defeat screen.

    I absolutely love those mements! The other day I was playing against a Mage and I was down to 5 health whereas he had 17. I don't remember the exact sequence of cards played but after I threw down Blessing of Kings, Redemption, and a few taunt minions I came out of the match with a win. Experience is all well and good but this is the main reason I don't concede matches. You never know when the rights cards will finally come into your hand.

     

    Doesn't happen often but when it does...good time! :) 

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVMember Posts: 2,635 Rare
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Scenario 1:  It's clear that I'm going to lose a game.  On my last turn, I saw that my opponent had enough on the board to kill me on his next turn.  I looked through my cards and found that I couldn't stop it.  I end my turn and all my opponent has to do is have a single minion already on the board attack my hero and that ends the game. Some people will do the polite thing:  kill me to promptly end the game so that we can both get the reward for playing and move on.  But a large fraction won't.  Some will sit there and think for a while, play three cards, buff minions, heal his own hero, kill my last minion (which isn't a taunt), and finally get around to killing my hero after using the bulk of the time allowed for his turn. Why do people do this? To be clear, I'm not talking about situations where my opponent needs to play a few cards, clear my taunt minions, buff his own minions, or whatever to have a complicated last turn to win the game.  I can understand why it takes a while to think about that.  But when all it takes is this minion attacks my hero with no secrets on the board and the game is 100% guaranteed to end with no further actions?  I don't understand taking 40 seconds for a turn to do 5 other moves before ending it. ----- Scenario 2:  It's clear that I'm going to win a game.  I have it set up so that I have enough on the board to end the game on my next turn unless my opponent can do something to defend against it (kill minions, drop a taunt, self-heal, etc.).  My opponent sees this, looks through his hand, and realizes that he's lost. Some people will do the polite thing:  end his turn, let me kill him, and we both get the reward for playing and move on.  But an awful lot of people will decide to concede the match immediately instead.  Letting the match last another 5 seconds would increase the experience rewards for both of us. This one, I'm a little more sympathetic to.  Some people may not care about experience; from the number of non-golden basic cards they're using, it's pretty obvious that they haven't hit the experience cap yet.  But if you don't care about golden cards, so be it.  And someone might reasonably worry that scenario #1 will play out, as seems to happen a lot.  But I still think it's annoying.

    And these are just games that frustrate those players, they are like that in real life too, imagine what they do there when things don't go their way.

    hehe I've had an opponent stand up and flip the table at a MTG tournament cause I was playing some stasis lock back during the Mirage block. Nerdrage!

     

    In any case OP, scenario 1 occurs for 2 reasons:

    1. They want to show you how hard they won, not just win, but dominate.

    2. They're not very good TCG players and don't realize that Alpha Striking when you don't need to is a bad habit that will get you turned around on. These players often lose matches that they may have had "in the bag" as they make large misplays that they don't understand.

     

    Scenario 2 occurs for 2 reasons as well:

    1. Butthurt. They're just mad cause they lost. Happens to everyone.

    2. Getting to the next match is more important than a little more xp.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember Posts: 4,158 Rare
    Originally posted by Homitu
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    At first I always played it out, but some players in the forums stated this was bad manners, and it is appropriate to concede if a player does not have the cards to continue.  

    Conceding prematurely means that both players get less experience.  Once you've got all of the basic cards, you may or may not still care about experience, but when you're playing a class that is below level 10 it's frustrating to be on the cusp of a hard-earned win, only to be denied some of the experience you were expecting because the other guy conceded.

    That said, I do what bloodaxes said, too.  If you could readily kill me in one attack and make other moves without killing me, you obviously don't care about experience.

    You're lacking consistency in your application of the EXP argument. 

    According to the most convincing sources I could find (and it should be noted that none of them are 100% definitive), EXP is almost exclusively a function of how many actions a player performs.  So if your metric for what constitutes "good manners" is simply that which nets both players the most EXP, as you seem to imply here, then you should also be ok with players who take all those extra actions before killing you, even if they could have killed you with a single minion attack.  They might not net you any more EXP, but they'll give the winning player some well-deserved extra EXP.  

     

    Personally, I don't think any of that matters.  What constitutes good/bad manners, rudeness/politeness is completely subjective. What one person can intend in complete goodwill, another person can perceive as rude.  Some players, for example, interpret use of the "well played" emote as rude if the game was a blowout, and will actually get angry when they hear it; other players think it's the polite thing to say, regardless of how close the game was.  

    Even intentionally using bad manners isn't necessarily bad manners...lol.  In many of the shout-casted tournaments that have been streamed on twitch and youtube, many players have made a fun game out of who can end the game in a more rude manner. There's nothing actually rude about what they're doing, as they all generally mean it in good fun.  

    This! 

     

    What's more rude than anything, IMO, is people who use up their entire turn. Maybe once in a game you need to actually think about what you're doing, but people who consistently take 50 or 60 seconds to act are the ones I think are most rude. I Think you can expect this once, maybe twice in a game if there is a sticky situation, but not every single turn.  Nevermind people who use up their entire turn! What is it like a couple minutes? The game really isn't rocket science. You have a finite number of cards you can play. There is zero money on the line (and it's not even a ranked match). 

    Crazkanuk

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