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No in-game AH; Zeni suggests third-party source

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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,778Member Uncommon
    i personally dont mind the lack of an actual AH outside of guild stores. However, the more features Zenimax leave out of the game the less value that subscription has to me. Its a new game but i expect they add (in the near future) a lot of big and small features that are still missing in the game because and things that need some minor changes but have huge impact in the game itself. As the game keeps growing and they add/change things then the value will be there. At its current state ill probably get one more month after the free month is up to finish my main character and at least 1 alt and then go back to other mmos that offer more for the same price... until ESO is up to par in terms of features and polish.

    image
  • eldariseldaris LondonPosts: 349Member


    Originally posted by ohioastro
    Whenever I see someone posting a copy-pasted litany of complaints about a game I can be pretty sure that they have no interest in actually playing it.  You don't like this game and don't want to play it; fine.  Why should we take your advice on how it should be changed? It's quite clear that you want a way to skip the leveling process and jump into "endgame", and that's not what ESO is about.  Earlier you were actually complaining about the game being designed to be "slow", "forcing" players to spend many months reaching endgame.  Has it occurred to you that not all games need to be disposable filler focused on repeating a handful of things at level cap?[

    Please tell me where is copy pasted from, I would like to know where my evil twin is posting my rants
    It's a big difference between a game having content and artificially slowing down players because developers can't add new content fast enough and want to justify subscription. What months to reach end game ,is more like 10 days for casual players - I complained about being forced to do same quests as the other alliances which kills any point in making alts,something me and lot of players enjoy. Jump to end game you say - missed again, I profoundly dislike the whole idea of end game because in most cases end game is nothing that making players grind same zones until they add new content to game (too bad that in most cases the new content is not new zones and quests but more instances to grind). So use that copy paste phrase in your next argument with a raid fan not with me.
    Lack of ah is not making this game any more hardcore despite what you and other fans are saying, a game which has dumbed down system for consoles and guides you to every npc for quests is anything but hardcore.
    If you are suspicious of my motives to post my problems with the game, same can be said about your motives to defend the game without accepting any criticism.

  • ohioastroohioastro Columbus, OHPosts: 439Member Uncommon

    That's called the fallacy of the excluded middle.  For example, I  think that storage in the game is too stingy, especially for crafting; that the UI for the guild stores needs improvement; that grouping tools could be better, and that the game would benefit from more formalized chest looting in dungeons; just to pick random examples.

    But your posts seem focused on them setting up "barriers" forcing "slow play".  What if the process of questing and exploring is the game?  This doesn't even seem to occur to you.   The copy-pasting thing comes when someone moves from discussing a particular issue, e.g. the auction house, and transitions to a list of unrelated complaints.  It's possible that a single issue is legit, but when you see a stream of common complaint thread items it just looks more like you simply don't like it.

  • eldariseldaris LondonPosts: 349Member

    Since the focus of game is quests and adventures as you said, what is the problem with having a convenient way to sell the items you get or the things you craft ? Actually lack of ah is more of an advantage for an end game oriented mmorpg not for a one which ,you say, is about leveling casually and having adventures. In some raid heavy games, ah is only useful to get money to buy pets or horses,since all the best items are bop from raids, nothing from crafting or world drops.
    Someone just posted earlier other ways to allow people sell or buy without depending on forums , spamming chat or jump from guild to guild looking for a bargain. While less convenient than a ah, having player shops is much better than guild ah while in same time encouraging a lot of community related activities - trade centres, housing, player merchants which can buy from stonefalls and sell to mournhold etc.

  • calibekcalibek Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 155Member
    I love the no in-game auction house situation. It reminds me of UO back in the day where if you wanted something there was a UO Auction site you went to or posted on Tradespot. Keeps things very interesting and the market constantly fluctuating. I hope they never add an auction house to the game.

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  • rodarinrodarin camarillo, CAPosts: 576Member Uncommon

    They didnt add an AH because they probably didnt know how. They cant even run a banking mechanic hw the hell they going ot develop and run an AH mechanic with all those moving parts?

     

    These guys are over their heads with an MMO. Its pretty obvious at this point. Theyre a solo/console player company the fact that a lot of the problems are directly related to MMO specific things speaks volumes,as  does not having an AH. That just saved people from another issue that didnt work in the game.

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,581Member Uncommon
    No world AH makes guilds more important and mean sonething. You can make a guild with your 10 friends, but that guild does not have access to a working AH. Also you can join 5 guilds...find a trading one or build up you guilds AH by getting peopke involved. Leave guilds with stupid taxes.
  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXPosts: 1,205Member

    I find it funny that the same people who are lambasting ESO for not having a global AH are the same people who in other threads are constantly complaining how every MMO released is a copy of WoW and how no one tried anything new… Hilarious actually.

    Regardless, I like not having a global AH. It has encouraged me to be a bit more social (something I had almost forgotten how to do in modern MMOs) and actually talk to people. My personal experience hasn’t been negative regarding massive trade spam on chat but I guess it could be the time of day I play. I have joined two large trading guilds and have had no problem selling items and making $$$. I love crafting so making items and selling them is half of my fun playing an MMO. I agree that the bank guild store interface sucks arse and I am hoping the at least add a search by name function when browsing for goods.

    As far as what one poster mentioned as being regarded or knows as the best trader/crafter in a game… Reminds me of my rose-colored-glasses-days in Shadowbane. There was no global AH in that game either. You went to one of the “safe” cities and hawked your wares or you built a “neutral” trading town and have people from all parts of the server come to your town to buy/sell goods (minus a small “transaction fee” charged by the store owner). This of course attracted thieves to the town who would prowl the edges hoping to kill a lone target laden with goods to sell or attracting the ire of a powerful guild who would be hell-bent in burning your town to the ground… In summary, creating opportunities for interaction and engagement by the community…

    Just my 2 cents.

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • KirinRahlKirinRahl New Smyrna Beach, FLPosts: 153Member

    http://www.raphkoster.com/2012/03/20/do-auction-houses-suck/

     

    Auction Houses are good for some things and bad for other things.

     

    Broadly, they're good for players who don't give a great big fuck and would rather accrue items to the point where they no longer have to look for items, despite the fact that that means the game is functionally over.

     

    They're bad for players who are interested in an active, healthy economy, wherein not only the largest possible suppliers of a given item (or those who choose to offer it for the cheapest) are able to functionally participate in the market.  On  World of Warcraft, if you want to dominate a certain type of material on your shard, you literally buy all of it and post it 10G higher; lots of folks I've known have had the gold and the chops to do that at times when it would benefit them the most.

     

    There's not a lot of game there, though, as compared to a game in which crafting is a real thing that matters a lot.  ESO, although they do not have quite the same depth of crafting content as the aforementioned sci-fi-game-which-is-not-EVE, seem to be putting together a system in which humans with good crafting skills can crank out an item -precisely as good- as the crazy bullshit that drops from endgame instances.

     

    So, y'know.  There are a lot of arguments both for and against.  I err on the side of the used bookstore rather than on the side of Amazon... although I surely do buy piles of ebooks from Amazon, I always go and get my favorites in hardback from Powell's, so I can have them on my shelf.

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Originally posted by kakasaki

    I find it funny that the same people who are lambasting ESO for not having a global AH are the same people who in other threads are constantly complaining how every MMO released is a copy of WoW and how no one tried anything new… Hilarious actually.

    Regardless, I like not having a global AH. It has encouraged me to be a bit more social (something I had almost forgotten how to do in modern MMOs) and actually talk to people. My personal experience hasn’t been negative regarding massive trade spam on chat but I guess it could be the time of day I play. I have joined two large trading guilds and have had no problem selling items and making $$$. I love crafting so making items and selling them is half of my fun playing an MMO. I agree that the bank guild store interface sucks arse and I am hoping the at least add a search by name function when browsing for goods.

    As far as what one poster mentioned as being regarded or knows as the best trader/crafter in a game… Reminds me of my rose-colored-glasses-days in Shadowbane. There was no global AH in that game either. You went to one of the “safe” cities and hawked your wares or you built a “neutral” trading town and have people from all parts of the server come to your town to buy/sell goods (minus a small “transaction fee” charged by the store owner). This of course attracted thieves to the town who would prowl the edges hoping to kill a lone target laden with goods to sell or attracting the ire of a powerful guild who would be hell-bent in burning your town to the ground… In summary, creating opportunities for interaction and engagement by the community…

    Just my 2 cents.

    Not this argument again please. Removing AH is not doing something new. New would be to make changes to way AH works not completely get rid of it.

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,581Member Uncommon
    They did change the way AH's work. They are guild centric. ..that is new.
  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Originally posted by Horusra
    They did change the way AH's work. They are guild centric. ..that is new.

    I was talking about global AH. Removing something isn't new. Reminds me of GW2 where fans were claiming that eliminating the features = new.

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,581Member Uncommon
    But they changed the functions of AH to make guilds more important. Removing global AH for guild AH is something new. Removing feature to replace with new feature = new.
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,290Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Horusra
    They did change the way AH's work. They are guild centric. ..that is new.

    its the equivalent of cutting an orange in half and claiming its better than having a whole one, and charging you the same price for it. less really isn't more image

  • MoulsMouls ububuaPosts: 90Member
    Originally posted by naami
    Originally posted by Elikal

    *headdesk*  If this is indeed an official response... it just lowers my already low esteem for ZoS. The need to rely on out of game sources for ingame transactions whatsoever is one of the most absurd moves. So they recognize the issue but suggest an outside website as crutch?

    Doh. >.<

     

    Quote (from ZoS):

    "You don't necessarily want to do a global auction house for a game with one giant server because that generally leads to all the best gear being available at very, very cheap prices. A lot of times that can trivialize the game. You cannot have a healthy economy when there are no restrictions on getting the best stuff in the game."

     

    This is pure Communism. The idea to control and limit free market to "protect" some assumed weak link, is protectionism and just nothing but hardcore communistic market ideology. I say, let free market balance things out! Governmental protected market, in this case ZoS being the government, has never been good for the economy. Let supply and demand, the rules of free market balance itself out. That's the best for everyone in the long run. Allow everyone to sell anything anytime without hindrances.

    This is a game not a real life economic situation. In real life there are finite resources. In a game there are infinite resources. If there was a global auction then everything related to crafting and upgrades would become trivial. They might as well start you off with max crafting and gear on a new character. Unless they made everything more rare but then that would make the game unfun for normal people. 

    I hope the developers don't listen to the players again and add it. They are really dumb sometimes.

    There are infinite gold sink too, money spent in reparing and buying stuff from npc and the AH tax will never reach any players hand this is how you control inflation in MMO at least util someone start to dupe gold.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,910Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by askdaboss
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp

    Trivialize. That is a word Ive been using to describe what people who want more inventory space and a generic auction hall want to do to the game. The economy IS a feature and a mechanic in the game, especially big at max level when it becomes content for a pretty significant portion of the player base. I completely agree with the devs, in an auction hall the best of the best is far too readily available, which isnt good for the crafters, and means we have more of "every player in the exact same equipment" thing that happens in every MMO that ESO has managed to avoid through their game mechanics.

    Fuck people that want to make this like every other theme park.

    It is indeed true that  ESO lacks basic functionality and solutions that were introduced and implemented in the roughly two decades history of mmorpgs. The fun part is reading fanboy comments such as the above claiming that the lack of those features is somehow an "improvement".

    This is all the more ridiculous when from Zenimax Online own (implied) admission the need for an AH is acknowledged and understood, and their current answer is to propose to people to go to a third party website.

    They didn't answer that there is no need for an AH, or hated on marketplaces or dissuaded people from going to marketplaces in order to benefit from the full, unstained ESO experience. Nope. They said "Looking to buy, sell, and trade in-game goods and services in #ESO? Then @TesoElite';s new marketplace is for you."

     

    If one of the fanboys in denial could clarify their "stance" on the matter that would help my understanding, but it seems to me that the fanboys haven't been listening attentively enough to the voice of their guru, and that they instead should be flocking to create their account on TesoElite as their master told them to do. NOW!

    Ah!! people have a different opinion on how trade should be handled, we must face them with ridicule then call them names, that will promote some real change in ESO!!!!!

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,068Member Uncommon

    Those suggesting that people just go and "advertise" in chat etc. never played EQ1. a single servers worth of people - so 3,000 max - was time consuming and/or a nightmare depending on your point of view. And when I say time consuming I am talking hours not minutes.

    I find it hard to believe that Zenimax couldn't produce an AH if they wanted to. That said I find it hard to understand why the a guild AH is so limited. 

    The only thing I can think of is that there was some discussion over how a campaign may / may not work. A discussion about what might give one side an "unfair" advantage. Campaign" AHs? Being able to join just one guild / have just one guild AH available? 

    I assume they came up with a design and then coded it. To now be suggesting that players circumvent that design - especially in light of what they said about add-ons - seems very odd.

    AHs were created because the demand was there from the players. Not all but the vast number of players. The ones that got fed up of spending hours trying to get the drop they needed; fed up of spending hours trying to sell a few items. The ones who wanted to do other stuff instead - quests, PvP or crafting even! 

    I think it is a dangerous path to be treading.

  • TimzillaTimzilla Ramona, CAPosts: 437Member
    Mobs drop all the gear you'll need for the grind to 60. Then just be in the right guilds when you'er 50. I think this is an improvement on AH culture.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,474Member Uncommon

    This is why we can't have great games.  Lack a feature that wow has and you get people crying for the missing wow feature.  The lack of AH adds game play value.  Sure at a cost the self-important entitled fok who can't be held beyond instant gratification that an auction house brings.  It is all your fault.

    I applaud ESO for choosing to not add an AH.

  • VyntVynt Glendale, CAPosts: 632Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Roguewiz

    Honestly, they need to create a "bazaar" zone where you can sell your goods (and only sell your goods).  This will reduce the spam in the other zones and give players an area to buy/sell, but still allow the "face to face" (yea, I know...face to face in a game??) interface some people like

    Or

    1. Put in player housing and allow player merchants
    2. Setup a "market board"
    3. Allow players to browse goods.
    4. Make them run to the home of the player, no matter where it is.
     
    Now, my opinion.
     
    There is nothing inherently wrong with Auction Houses.  An AH does not make the game a themepark.  What makes the game a themepark is quest hubs.  If I wanted to talk with people in-game, I'd group with them or join a guild.  I don't really care to interface with them for buying and selling.  Especially considering that there is no guarantee that the item I need will be sold in chat at the time I'm on.  With an AH, I have a better chance of getting it.
     
    Just saying...

    I was so thankful when they put the bazaar in EQ with luclin expansion. Made things so much better. I like global AHs, but really like the bazaar too. It could ease some of the issues with an AH having too many items.

    If in an AH people are selling 100 of an item, and price keeps getting lower and lower, in the bazaar, those 100 people wouldn't all be selling at same time, maybe 15 since they would have to be on and in the bazaar zone. It made pricing more balanced, and with plenty of items still for sale. People still even advertised when not in bazaar, so there was still some communication. Heck, I remember even giving a tell to someone in bazaar and asking if they would take half cash and an item, so was still able to wheel and deal, unlike in the AH.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp

    Trivialize. That is a word Ive been using to describe what people who want more inventory space and a generic auction hall want to do to the game. The economy IS a feature and a mechanic in the game, especially big at max level when it becomes content for a pretty significant portion of the player base. I completely agree with the devs, in an auction hall the best of the best is far too readily available, which isnt good for the crafters, and means we have more of "every player in the exact same equipment" thing that happens in every MMO that ESO has managed to avoid through their game mechanics.

    Fuck people that want to make this like every other theme park.

    It is indeed true that  ESO lacks basic functionality and solutions that were introduced and implemented in the roughly two decades history of mmorpgs. The fun part is reading fanboy comments such as the above claiming that the lack of those features is somehow an "improvement".

    There it is...The good old mmorpg tradition argument.   I hope you don't have any posts on this website asking for devs to do something new/different/original because that would be hypocritical.    This is why we can't get game devs trying to do something different.  They just can't win with you people now can they? 

  • mrBurns210mrBurns210 Clearwater, FLPosts: 114Member

    This was one reason why I unsubbed. An AH or player exchange imo is a must ( I do not care if it is zone based / server based  / faction based ) The guild store is a nice idea but  it just is not working for me.

    The combat and crafting are just perfect. I haven't gotten to PvP yet though I have qualms with race locked factions. Personally it would have felt more Elder Scrolls if I chose which ever side I wanted to join regardless of race. Or maybe just a more player based factions (guilds and their alliances each vying to win).

    The major reason I have unsubbed was because I have been left feeling like I am playing a single player game with the hassles of a mmo. I haven't felt the need to group up for a single quest.

     

    Just wanted to add the audio is amazing, the sound when an Anchor event starts is just cool.

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,540Member Uncommon

    Assuming that Zenimax is telling the truth (and its not just a lame excuse, which I suspect tbh) that a global AH would destroy the ingame economy, the alternative they present is just not good enough for a new MMO. Every MMO has many players who are not interested in joining a guild or to play PVP. For those people all that is left are third party trade websites or spamming chat for hours to trade. This could be the deciding factor for people to unsub.

    I also don't understand defending Zenimax's position on this. There are many possible alternatives for a global AH. Alternatives that work a lot better then what ESO currently has. Someone mentioned SWG (although assumed it was similar to ESO in this lol). SWG had systems in place that kept the trading decentralized in a way that would benefit all types of players.

    Defending Zenimax in this case is just helping to kill this game imo. This is one of those situations when devs mean that fanboys can hurt a game on the long run if they defend everything.

  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXPosts: 1,205Member
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Originally posted by kakasaki

    I find it funny that the same people who are lambasting ESO for not having a global AH are the same people who in other threads are constantly complaining how every MMO released is a copy of WoW and how no one tried anything new… Hilarious actually.

    Regardless, I like not having a global AH. It has encouraged me to be a bit more social (something I had almost forgotten how to do in modern MMOs) and actually talk to people. My personal experience hasn’t been negative regarding massive trade spam on chat but I guess it could be the time of day I play. I have joined two large trading guilds and have had no problem selling items and making $$$. I love crafting so making items and selling them is half of my fun playing an MMO. I agree that the bank guild store interface sucks arse and I am hoping the at least add a search by name function when browsing for goods.

    As far as what one poster mentioned as being regarded or knows as the best trader/crafter in a game… Reminds me of my rose-colored-glasses-days in Shadowbane. There was no global AH in that game either. You went to one of the “safe” cities and hawked your wares or you built a “neutral” trading town and have people from all parts of the server come to your town to buy/sell goods (minus a small “transaction fee” charged by the store owner). This of course attracted thieves to the town who would prowl the edges hoping to kill a lone target laden with goods to sell or attracting the ire of a powerful guild who would be hell-bent in burning your town to the ground… In summary, creating opportunities for interaction and engagement by the community…

    Just my 2 cents.

    Not this argument again please. Removing AH is not doing something new. New would be to make changes to way AH works not completely get rid of it.

    Mea culpa. I should have said done something different. Regardless, thank you for commenting on the merits and providing a counter argument to the rest of my post.... oh that's right, you didn't...

     

    BTW, what else different can you do with a global AH that hasn't already been done?

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXPosts: 1,205Member
    Originally posted by someforumguy

    Assuming that Zenimax is telling the truth (and its not just a lame excuse, which I suspect tbh) that a global AH would destroy the ingame economy, the alternative they present is just not good enough for a new MMO. Every MMO has many players who are not interested in joining a guild or to play PVP. For those people all that is left are third party trade websites or spamming chat for hours to trade. This could be the deciding factor for people to unsub.

    I also don't understand defending Zenimax's position on this. There are many possible alternatives for a global AH. Alternatives that work a lot better then what ESO currently has. Someone mentioned SWG (although assumed it was similar to ESO in this lol). SWG had systems in place that kept the trading decentralized in a way that would benefit all types of players.

    Defending Zenimax in this case is just helping to kill this game imo. This is one of those situations when devs mean that fanboys can hurt a game on the long run if they defend everything.

    But what if I like not having a global AH in my MMOs? Is that being a "fanboy" or defending Zenimax?

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

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