What have been dozen game release themes? Fantasy. ESO and FFXIV were the last couple and they have been lauded and fawned over with nary an eye twitch while they have both rehashed mechanics from previous games. Did we see venomous articles and kneejerk poster reactions to those based on their themes?
What is the other slightly less common mmo theme we've seen on the scene? Sci-fi or sci-fantasy. Have we seen indignation over spaceships and sci-fi magic?
I can only conclude that the hip thing to do is to trash post apoc and/or zombies because it's a less treasured theme. The other themes have been done to dead-horse death.
We don't want WoW clones (the reasons should be obvious by now). We don't like innovation (we wuv our trinity - we actually do want WoW clones). What do we want? Do we not want to show interest in a dev/pub trying to recreate a similar experience to SWG? I still hear whining pining posts about SWG all the time on this site, yet when the very publisher that had experience with that game and all the successes and mistakes made talks about making a go of it, the game is panned.
Yes, I know there are different groups of people that like different things, but it sometimes strikes me as odd what trends our gaming herd follows.
I think it's that fantasy and to a lesser extent, sci-fi, are not quite as mainstream outside of gaming/geek culture. One of the benefits of this is that you don't get many screw-ups and genre ruining entertainment media.
What I mean by this is that if you look at mainstream publicly consumed fantasy, what do we have? LOTR, Game of Thrones, Harry Potter, a couple King Arthur movies, Willow. It's a properly short list compared to other generes. Sci-fi has more, but most popular sci-fi is actually just action with space guns.
Zombies on the other hand are extremely popular in the general populace and by virtue of their popularity we're inundated with them in other media outside of gaming. I can't even count all the zombie movies. But that popularity is a double edged sword because while there are some goods ones, there are many bad ones and they can be quite farcical even when they're not trying to be.
Also of note, in zombie movies, they tend to be the only problem besides petty human nonsense. Whereas in fantasy, there's much more creative freedom, "hmmm I think I'm going to make an evil creature that has a pumpkin for a butt and throws poisonous webs at people."
Just look at how vampires are treated these days, twilight and true blood completely decimated their appeal. They became the property of pre-teen girls. And that's kind of the problem with zombies. They're more of a horror cliche than anything. Even though fantasy has been done many times, you can always create new villains, with personalities and new types of magic and weapons to collect.
Someone else noted that there were plenty of zombies in WoW, and that's exactly it. A fantasy game can have undead in it, but a zombie game usually just has zombies in it. At least TSW incorporated other baddies and that's what I think the post-apoc genere needs, more flexibility.
Just like the vampire craze - zombie crazy is on the way out. If this was 4 years ago - this would be hot.
Now it's just played out.
Unless the gameplay is something revolutionary - H1Z1 is destined for "meh - too late".
SOE seems fresh out of ideas - because they have no new blood in the company - they need young fresh minds - the old devs just have no vision left in them it seems.
What Vampire craze? Two popular IP's? Zombie craze? 1 popular franchise in TV"s/Movies? This is the exact definition of hipster reasoning. There are no more Zombie flicks made today than there were in 1995. THose things you're referring to were big budget cash-ins on popular cult themes. Zombie's will be no less popular tomorrow than they've ever been, accept to those who think they're on top of the trends...the hipsters.
It's not about being HOT, it's about properly executing a theme and not trying to "cash-in" on that theme.
BY the way, focusing on the sellouts, and not "the real thing" voids your hipster card :P.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
IMO, what does it take to be the spiritual successor to SWG? A rebuildable pick and choose build your own class based system (like seen in pre-CU/NGE SWG). Large Open World maps not walled compartments like seen in SW:TOR or FF XIV : The First Try. Buildable, destructible, and defendable structures and cities. All gear player crafted. Strong reliance on multi-roll buffs. Strong reliance on the Trinity. AFK macro leveling and combat.
Like it or not this is what SWG Pre-CU/NGE was, and if H1Z1 has these feature it will be the spiritual successor to SWG. The plug-n-play 33 class / roll / profession system of SWG is the one thing I hope this game incorporates. But I also feel it is the first game feature SOE will pass on, not realizing the nugget of gold that feature is.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
how can a game that is not sci fi, not in space and not its own complete lore universe be a successor to SWG?
Seems to me like he is just running his mouth to get fanfare.
Did he even say that or as usual people making their own connections?
No Smed said it was the spiritual successor to SWG. When the news broke, it was covered here in a feature article. But I am to sick right now to search for it. Its only a month old or so I think. I wish the mods or Suzie would have included a link to that article for us.
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by DistopiaOriginally posted by FoomerangI dont think its a hipster thing to hate but from a game context, it is one dimensional. Fantasy lends itself to more liberal interpretation with various power sources and factions, exotic races, types of magic etc.Zombies are just zombies. Unless you want to start giving them social political structures and schools of magic or some rich backstory its just much more of a limited IP than fantasy.
That's very true, however when it coems to sandbox, there's a lot that can be done from a player dependency standpoint that supports that theme in a co-op environment. This is where I feel most Zombie titles fall flat.I see the potential for diversity in how each group of people sets up camp and tries to survive and how their community structure evolves. I see the potential in how different server rule sets alter the shape and feel of the game. The few different Landmark servers all look and feel different in how they're evolving. The same could be true here. That is the depth doesn't come from the computer AI, but from the players and how they shape the world.
I don't really see fantasy or sci-fi tropes as any deeper, especially in themparks. Elves and orcs are always what they are. Even in Warhammer 40k the elves and orcs that have a radically different background are still very one-dimensional. They're fighting for their faction for the very same selfish reasons every other faction tries to dominate others in a faction based game. These different races and factions could have potential, but games rarely use that potential.
There are possibilities in a setting like this. Not all zombies are the same. These aren't necromantic (D&D style) or voodoo magic zombies. This is caused by some virus. What is the origin of that? Was it created and for what purpose? Is that entity still out there? Is that virus still dangerous (zombies might not be real or ultimate danger in the world)? What are other towns and areas like? Are they friendly, brutal, just, etc. Will the US government try and recover and restore the nation? WIll other nations, if they exist, try and reform and restore civilazation to the world? Will new nations arise? The novels "The Postman" and "City of Ember" series touch on some of these topics (only in a different setting with a different antagonist).
I think any setting has the potential to offer depth, or not. We'll see though. It might be a totally flat predictable experience. I'll wait and see how it progresses.
The potential of players shaping the world is a sandbox element regardless of the setting. I'm just saying that zombies are more like a mob. Its restrictive to design a game around a single mob. Thats like WoW being 100% murlocs. Might be fun for a minute though heh. You limit yourself as a world builder when a single entity dominates your setting. Yeah there are tons of ways to implement a zombie apocalypse and make it interesting. But most of the interesting stuff comes from what players will do with open world territory control rather than the zombies themselves.
If they dont do crafting right, I can easily see the zombies becoming a trivial nuisance like swatting away flies. They claim survival horror for this game. I dont think that is possible without limited resources. A gun with limited ammo. Bullets have to matter, fuel needs to matter.
Smed said he "crafted" a 1911 pistol. That makes me cringe a little. Are we going to be gathering ore and popping out automatic weapons with "magic" bullets like The Secret World? Because that was a deal breaker for me.
Need more info. Need more info. neeeeed more info hehe
The idea sounds terrible. If it isn't a full on PvP game it will be boring as hell with nothing but zombies to kill, its not like they can put trolls, dragons or something not in the real world so there really wont be ANYTHING but zombies and players, and perhaps freaking rabbits and dear.
And if it is a FFA PvP game, its still going to be niche.
All around horrible setting for an MMO. Should have replaced Zombies with an alien invasion wiping out most of humanity with the survivors trying to fight them off, or even aliens visit and had a virus that wiped out most life, accidentally with them leaving behind new tech from us to learn from adding in sci-fi and a future expansion into space.
Either way, reality is boring as hell for an MMO and wiping out most of it only makes it more boring. Even TSW added in ancient portal tech, an underground world and things not of "reality".
Originally posted by FoomerangI dont think its a hipster thing to hate but from a game context, it is one dimensional. Fantasy lends itself to more liberal interpretation with various power sources and factions, exotic races, types of magic etc.Zombies are just zombies. Unless you want to start giving them social political structures and schools of magic or some rich backstory its just much more of a limited IP than fantasy.
That's very true, however when it coems to sandbox, there's a lot that can be done from a player dependency standpoint that supports that theme in a co-op environment. This is where I feel most Zombie titles fall flat.
I see the potential for diversity in how each group of people sets up camp and tries to survive and how their community structure evolves. I see the potential in how different server rule sets alter the shape and feel of the game. The few different Landmark servers all look and feel different in how they're evolving. The same could be true here. That is the depth doesn't come from the computer AI, but from the players and how they shape the world.
I don't really see fantasy or sci-fi tropes as any deeper, especially in themparks. Elves and orcs are always what they are. Even in Warhammer 40k the elves and orcs that have a radically different background are still very one-dimensional. They're fighting for their faction for the very same selfish reasons every other faction tries to dominate others in a faction based game. These different races and factions could have potential, but games rarely use that potential.
There are possibilities in a setting like this. Not all zombies are the same. These aren't necromantic (D&D style) or voodoo magic zombies. This is caused by some virus. What is the origin of that? Was it created and for what purpose? Is that entity still out there? Is that virus still dangerous (zombies might not be real or ultimate danger in the world)? What are other towns and areas like? Are they friendly, brutal, just, etc. Will the US government try and recover and restore the nation? WIll other nations, if they exist, try and reform and restore civilazation to the world? Will new nations arise? The novels "The Postman" and "City of Ember" series touch on some of these topics (only in a different setting with a different antagonist).
I think any setting has the potential to offer depth, or not. We'll see though. It might be a totally flat predictable experience. I'll wait and see how it progresses.
The potential of players shaping the world is a sandbox element regardless of the setting. I'm just saying that zombies are more like a mob. Its restrictive to design a game around a single mob. Thats like WoW being 100% murlocs. Might be fun for a minute though heh. You limit yourself as a world builder when a single entity dominates your setting. Yeah there are tons of ways to implement a zombie apocalypse and make it interesting. But most of the interesting stuff comes from what players will do with open world territory control rather than the zombies themselves.
If they dont do crafting right, I can easily see the zombies becoming a trivial nuisance like swatting away flies. They claim survival horror for this game. I dont think that is possible without limited resources. A gun with limited ammo. Bullets have to matter, fuel needs to matter.
Smed said he "crafted" a 1911 pistol. That makes me cringe a little. Are we going to be gathering ore and popping out automatic weapons with "magic" bullets like The Secret World? Because that was a deal breaker for me.
Need more info. Need more info. neeeeed more info hehe
Exactly. TSW has zombies too, but there's also many other creature to spice up things. Zombies are indeed just a mob, but the reason why many, including myself, cringe at "zombie survival games" is because the survival horror aspect is about rehashing the same enemy. Why is it so hard to imagine a post apocalyptic world where demons and hellish monsters exist?
Also, the engine is PS2's, and to continue with your thoughts on the crafting, what worries me is how Smed was poping down undead with a handgun like it was nothing, and seemed more interested in the pvp aspect of it. Yes, it's alpha, but if killing zombies is as easy as that, what happens when players are loaded with m16, snipers, grenades, etc?
Let's hope those "zombie types" are atleast good. Or maybe have the zombies can climb walls, leap at you from afar. Something.
EDIT: BTW, the reason why i'm somewhat angry at this is because i'd love a proper survival horror mmo, or large scale multiplayer, without pvp (and i like pvp too). But zombies? Urgh.
The potential of players shaping the world is a sandbox element regardless of the setting. I'm just saying that zombies are more like a mob. Its restrictive to design a game around a single mob. Thats like WoW being 100% murlocs. Might be fun for a minute though heh. You limit yourself as a world builder when a single entity dominates your setting. Yeah there are tons of ways to implement a zombie apocalypse and make it interesting. But most of the interesting stuff comes from what players will do with open world territory control rather than the zombies themselves.
It's the common problem with all zombie based things. Even the walking dead has really stopped being about surviving the zombies. It's the humans that always seem to be the real threat and the zombies are just there to make it " horror"
If you totally removed zombies from the walking dead how much would the stories really need to change?
That's been my issue with all of these zombie apocalypse survival games. Why are the zombies there ? They just seem more of a social experiment than a survival game. " look how terrible people become when you limit resources they need "
The potential of players shaping the world is a sandbox element regardless of the setting. I'm just saying that zombies are more like a mob. Its restrictive to design a game around a single mob. Thats like WoW being 100% murlocs. Might be fun for a minute though heh. You limit yourself as a world builder when a single entity dominates your setting. Yeah there are tons of ways to implement a zombie apocalypse and make it interesting. But most of the interesting stuff comes from what players will do with open world territory control rather than the zombies themselves.
It's the common problem with all zombie based things. Even the walking dead has really stopped being about surviving the zombies. It's the humans that always seem to be the real threat and the zombies are just there to make it " horror"
If you totally removed zombies from the walking dead how much would the stories really need to change?
That's been my issue with all of these zombie apocalypse survival games. Why are the zombies there ? They just seem more of a social experiment than a survival game. " look how terrible people become when you limit resources they need "
THis is a very good point, and goes along with what I've been saying about most zombie titles, they're just a gimmick for their appeal (ohhh zombies). Here they better be a real threat, otherwise as you said, it becomes nothing but what you described, not that that can't still be good, it's just using zombies for the sake of it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Come on SOE, how hard would it be to make another Sci-fi game with the mechanics of SWG less the Star Wars themes? Only SOE could keep kicking SWG in the nuts even after it's gone.
Zombies fill the role of us against them. They stand in for either the Russian, Chinese, Koreans, or Vietnamese. The big difference I feel between this game and SWG is that there will only be one side for players.
I read a post earlier about looking for a can of beans and dieing. I hope that is not what the game is like. Here is what I expect from the spiritual successor to SWG. Spawn in a NPC fortified city. Learn basic rolls from NPC. Learn Novice Survivor, acquire basic shelter construction, terrain negotiation, animal harvesting, and other skills I will keep to myself.
Learn Novice Farmer to be able to scavenge for wild seed and farm, to domesticate and breed will animals for food and utility. Learn Novice Handyman, to craft starter gear and open up advanced crafting profession paths. Learn Novice First Aid, to heal between fights in a camp. Learn Novice Guitar to easy my mind and buff my spirits after a day of dealing with the dead. Learn Novice Melee fighting just to figure out how to use a bat and steel pipe to defend myself.
I think from here you can see where I am going with this. You may not like it, but to me this is what SWG was.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
The potential of players shaping the world is a sandbox element regardless of the setting. I'm just saying that zombies are more like a mob. Its restrictive to design a game around a single mob. Thats like WoW being 100% murlocs. Might be fun for a minute though heh. You limit yourself as a world builder when a single entity dominates your setting. Yeah there are tons of ways to implement a zombie apocalypse and make it interesting. But most of the interesting stuff comes from what players will do with open world territory control rather than the zombies themselves.
It's the common problem with all zombie based things. Even the walking dead has really stopped being about surviving the zombies. It's the humans that always seem to be the real threat and the zombies are just there to make it " horror"
If you totally removed zombies from the walking dead how much would the stories really need to change?
That's been my issue with all of these zombie apocalypse survival games. Why are the zombies there ? They just seem more of a social experiment than a survival game. " look how terrible people become when you limit resources they need "
World War Z was a slightly different take on the zombie thing. The zombies in that movie were a serious threat. Is that style what players really want though? I get the feeling they want the human element to be the real threat.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Zombies fill the role of us against them. They stand in for either the Russian, Chinese, Koreans, or Vietnamese. The big difference I feel between this game and SWG is that there will only be one side for players.
I think from here you can see where I am going with this. You may not like it, but to me this is what SWG was.
I can see where you are going. To you, SWG was just a crafting game and you thinks basic game mechanics was all it was. SWG was more than crafting, it was a game heavy in RPing a setting, one that could be duplicated even without the Star Wars name if the Sci-Fi setting was there.
There is a reason why MMORPGs are not made in a modern setting and just a modern setting, real life is boring and killing off most of the population makes it even more boring. Even TSW added magic, portals and ancient tech. Reality is not meant for MMOs.
What do you mean "another" survival horror MMO? We don't have ANY that exist currently. DayZ/Rust/Nether/Whatever are NOT MMO's; they're multiplayer games that only allow so many people on one server.
This was my thought too.
So The Secret World isnt a survival horror MMO? It must at least be considered a horror mmo. And then there is Fallen Earth which has or had some some zombies in it but is post apocolyptic mmo.
Or are we just adding more sub genres to make niche more of a niche because of certain game mechanics?
The potential of players shaping the world is a sandbox element regardless of the setting. I'm just saying that zombies are more like a mob. Its restrictive to design a game around a single mob. Thats like WoW being 100% murlocs. Might be fun for a minute though heh. You limit yourself as a world builder when a single entity dominates your setting. Yeah there are tons of ways to implement a zombie apocalypse and make it interesting. But most of the interesting stuff comes from what players will do with open world territory control rather than the zombies themselves.
It's the common problem with all zombie based things. Even the walking dead has really stopped being about surviving the zombies. It's the humans that always seem to be the real threat and the zombies are just there to make it " horror"
If you totally removed zombies from the walking dead how much would the stories really need to change?
That's been my issue with all of these zombie apocalypse survival games. Why are the zombies there ? They just seem more of a social experiment than a survival game. " look how terrible people become when you limit resources they need "
World War Z was a slightly different take on the zombie thing. The zombies in that movie were a serious threat. Is that style what players really want though? I get the feeling they want the human element to be the real threat.
I think it depends on it being a pvp or pve player you ask. All these zombie games seem the same to me because they're all just pvp games at the core. If this ones really going to break out and be something different ( or big) it has to appeal to people not looking to gank or be ganked by other players as the underlining point of the game.
wwz style would be a more zombie oriented pve focused game. the fortresses they speak of could almost act like a tower defense style of feature but in an mmo setting where the day time you spend gathering and building and zombies are a minor threat ( players could be on a pvp server ) and at night you hide inside your walls and focus on your defenses and keeping the very dangerous ( buffed from day time ) zombies out.
My biggest fear ( for this game ) is that this game launches and the first thing you see is a guy with a ! over his head and he sends you out to kill 10 zombies.
Smed is directing everyone to Reddit as a place to discuss the game, and made a longish post there about the game. They've been working on it for a while, and he hopes to have a playable (alpha, I'm sure) version out for early adopters in 4-6 weeks. Very smart of him to use Reddit, because that way they don't even have to worry about game forums and other stuff this early in.
I get the impression this is a pet project of his, as he seems to be taking the lead in talking about it, and is very excited. I think that's pretty cool.
He has mentioned that the crafting will be deeper than anything we've seen in a long time, and that almost everything you need in the game can/will be crafted. We'll be building shelters, homes, camps and all kinds of things.
He's using the PS2 Forgelight engine, and some of the game code they will be adding to PS2 soon. Over time, he's planning to make a huge post apocalyptic version of the entire United States, including urban areas. Player cooperation will be key. He said the launch area will already be huge, but that he wants this persistent world game to keep growing. He said in a video that the game area will be "orders of magnitude" larger than PS2 map area.
Sounds like we will all have some real details soon enough, at least on the alpha version. SOE is putting this under the same umbrella as how they are handling EQ Landmark, where players will help drive the direction of the game as it is developed.
There's more info out there than some of you know, but really, it's just starting to come out. Most of it directly from Smed.
I also agree with others here who say the author of this article is off base. I'm extremely interested in what this game may offer, and frankly, zombies are just part of the setting. No, it's not Star Wars, but SOE no longer has the rights to that, and frankly, they probably don't want them. H1Z1 can go anywhere they want to take it without the baggage of Star Wars lore, intellectual property and Disney.
Having played some DayZ myself, the first thought that came to my head was this would make a great cooperative, persistent MMORPG, where players had to survive in a messed up world and deal with all kinds of threats. I haven't been playing a lot of zombie games, because they aren't MMO's, so this idea isn't played out for me.
Zombies fill the role of us against them. They stand in for either the Russian, Chinese, Koreans, or Vietnamese. The big difference I feel between this game and SWG is that there will only be one side for players.
I think from here you can see where I am going with this. You may not like it, but to me this is what SWG was.
I can see where you are going. To you, SWG was just a crafting game and you thinks basic game mechanics was all it was. SWG was more than crafting, it was a game heavy in RPing a setting, one that could be duplicated even without the Star Wars name if the Sci-Fi setting was there.
There is a reason why MMORPGs are not made in a modern setting and just a modern setting, real life is boring and killing off most of the population makes it even more boring. Even TSW added magic, portals and ancient tech. Reality is not meant for MMOs.
SWG was a game light in RP. And heavy in the themepark quest to achieve Jedi.
I listed the Novice Professions because those were the foundation mechanics that the SWG game provided. Mechanics are something that can be built and added to a game or left out entirely. RP is what you do with those mechanics. RP can not be either added or left out. So I didn’t bother to discuss it. But I felt I mentioned other professions other than crafting.
I don’t see the Sci-FI setting as critical to being a successor to SWG. To me the game could be set in the past, present or future. I’ve been RPing since ‘72 as Konfess, and if lack of a Sci-Fi setting is a make or break feature for you then I am deeply sorry.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
SWG was a game light in RP. And heavy in the themepark quest to achieve Jedi.
You must have played after NGE because no one in their right mind would think SWG was RP light. That was THE RP MMORPG and none since has had an RP community even close to it since.
The potential of players shaping the world is a sandbox element regardless of the setting. I'm just saying that zombies are more like a mob. Its restrictive to design a game around a single mob. Thats like WoW being 100% murlocs. Might be fun for a minute though heh. You limit yourself as a world builder when a single entity dominates your setting. Yeah there are tons of ways to implement a zombie apocalypse and make it interesting. But most of the interesting stuff comes from what players will do with open world territory control rather than the zombies themselves.
It's the common problem with all zombie based things. Even the walking dead has really stopped being about surviving the zombies. It's the humans that always seem to be the real threat and the zombies are just there to make it " horror"
If you totally removed zombies from the walking dead how much would the stories really need to change?
That's been my issue with all of these zombie apocalypse survival games. Why are the zombies there ? They just seem more of a social experiment than a survival game. " look how terrible people become when you limit resources they need "
World War Z was a slightly different take on the zombie thing. The zombies in that movie were a serious threat. Is that style what players really want though? I get the feeling they want the human element to be the real threat.
thats what i want, I want Zombies to be the ultimate threat I want them to be smart, fast and deadly. where as you want to stay away from Zombie and run from them unless you have no other option. I want people to die more to zombies than they do other players, i want zombies to be so damn strong that its almost a death sentence to go out by yourself unless you are extremely skilled or very lucky.
if it was up to me if someone was around a pack of Zombies they would get a "panic" debuff that would throw off their aim and maybe their screen would get more and more blurry. which would then be offset by having other players near you.
Comments
I think it's that fantasy and to a lesser extent, sci-fi, are not quite as mainstream outside of gaming/geek culture. One of the benefits of this is that you don't get many screw-ups and genre ruining entertainment media.
What I mean by this is that if you look at mainstream publicly consumed fantasy, what do we have? LOTR, Game of Thrones, Harry Potter, a couple King Arthur movies, Willow. It's a properly short list compared to other generes. Sci-fi has more, but most popular sci-fi is actually just action with space guns.
Zombies on the other hand are extremely popular in the general populace and by virtue of their popularity we're inundated with them in other media outside of gaming. I can't even count all the zombie movies. But that popularity is a double edged sword because while there are some goods ones, there are many bad ones and they can be quite farcical even when they're not trying to be.
Also of note, in zombie movies, they tend to be the only problem besides petty human nonsense. Whereas in fantasy, there's much more creative freedom, "hmmm I think I'm going to make an evil creature that has a pumpkin for a butt and throws poisonous webs at people."
Just look at how vampires are treated these days, twilight and true blood completely decimated their appeal. They became the property of pre-teen girls. And that's kind of the problem with zombies. They're more of a horror cliche than anything. Even though fantasy has been done many times, you can always create new villains, with personalities and new types of magic and weapons to collect.
Someone else noted that there were plenty of zombies in WoW, and that's exactly it. A fantasy game can have undead in it, but a zombie game usually just has zombies in it. At least TSW incorporated other baddies and that's what I think the post-apoc genere needs, more flexibility.
What Vampire craze? Two popular IP's? Zombie craze? 1 popular franchise in TV"s/Movies? This is the exact definition of hipster reasoning. There are no more Zombie flicks made today than there were in 1995. THose things you're referring to were big budget cash-ins on popular cult themes. Zombie's will be no less popular tomorrow than they've ever been, accept to those who think they're on top of the trends...the hipsters.
It's not about being HOT, it's about properly executing a theme and not trying to "cash-in" on that theme.
BY the way, focusing on the sellouts, and not "the real thing" voids your hipster card :P.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
IMO, what does it take to be the spiritual successor to SWG? A rebuildable pick and choose build your own class based system (like seen in pre-CU/NGE SWG). Large Open World maps not walled compartments like seen in SW:TOR or FF XIV : The First Try. Buildable, destructible, and defendable structures and cities. All gear player crafted. Strong reliance on multi-roll buffs. Strong reliance on the Trinity. AFK macro leveling and combat.
Like it or not this is what SWG Pre-CU/NGE was, and if H1Z1 has these feature it will be the spiritual successor to SWG. The plug-n-play 33 class / roll / profession system of SWG is the one thing I hope this game incorporates. But I also feel it is the first game feature SOE will pass on, not realizing the nugget of gold that feature is.Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
No Smed said it was the spiritual successor to SWG. When the news broke, it was covered here in a feature article. But I am to sick right now to search for it. Its only a month old or so I think. I wish the mods or Suzie would have included a link to that article for us.
Turns out I am not that sick. Searched "Smed spitital swg' and found Star Wars Galaxies News - 'Spiritual Successor' in a Modern Setting?
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I see the potential for diversity in how each group of people sets up camp and tries to survive and how their community structure evolves. I see the potential in how different server rule sets alter the shape and feel of the game. The few different Landmark servers all look and feel different in how they're evolving. The same could be true here. That is the depth doesn't come from the computer AI, but from the players and how they shape the world.
I don't really see fantasy or sci-fi tropes as any deeper, especially in themparks. Elves and orcs are always what they are. Even in Warhammer 40k the elves and orcs that have a radically different background are still very one-dimensional. They're fighting for their faction for the very same selfish reasons every other faction tries to dominate others in a faction based game. These different races and factions could have potential, but games rarely use that potential.
There are possibilities in a setting like this. Not all zombies are the same. These aren't necromantic (D&D style) or voodoo magic zombies. This is caused by some virus. What is the origin of that? Was it created and for what purpose? Is that entity still out there? Is that virus still dangerous (zombies might not be real or ultimate danger in the world)? What are other towns and areas like? Are they friendly, brutal, just, etc. Will the US government try and recover and restore the nation? WIll other nations, if they exist, try and reform and restore civilazation to the world? Will new nations arise? The novels "The Postman" and "City of Ember" series touch on some of these topics (only in a different setting with a different antagonist).
I think any setting has the potential to offer depth, or not. We'll see though. It might be a totally flat predictable experience. I'll wait and see how it progresses.
The potential of players shaping the world is a sandbox element regardless of the setting. I'm just saying that zombies are more like a mob. Its restrictive to design a game around a single mob. Thats like WoW being 100% murlocs. Might be fun for a minute though heh. You limit yourself as a world builder when a single entity dominates your setting. Yeah there are tons of ways to implement a zombie apocalypse and make it interesting. But most of the interesting stuff comes from what players will do with open world territory control rather than the zombies themselves.
If they dont do crafting right, I can easily see the zombies becoming a trivial nuisance like swatting away flies. They claim survival horror for this game. I dont think that is possible without limited resources. A gun with limited ammo. Bullets have to matter, fuel needs to matter.
Smed said he "crafted" a 1911 pistol. That makes me cringe a little. Are we going to be gathering ore and popping out automatic weapons with "magic" bullets like The Secret World? Because that was a deal breaker for me.
Need more info. Need more info. neeeeed more info hehe
The idea sounds terrible. If it isn't a full on PvP game it will be boring as hell with nothing but zombies to kill, its not like they can put trolls, dragons or something not in the real world so there really wont be ANYTHING but zombies and players, and perhaps freaking rabbits and dear.
And if it is a FFA PvP game, its still going to be niche.
All around horrible setting for an MMO. Should have replaced Zombies with an alien invasion wiping out most of humanity with the survivors trying to fight them off, or even aliens visit and had a virus that wiped out most life, accidentally with them leaving behind new tech from us to learn from adding in sci-fi and a future expansion into space.
Either way, reality is boring as hell for an MMO and wiping out most of it only makes it more boring. Even TSW added in ancient portal tech, an underground world and things not of "reality".
Exactly. TSW has zombies too, but there's also many other creature to spice up things. Zombies are indeed just a mob, but the reason why many, including myself, cringe at "zombie survival games" is because the survival horror aspect is about rehashing the same enemy. Why is it so hard to imagine a post apocalyptic world where demons and hellish monsters exist?
Also, the engine is PS2's, and to continue with your thoughts on the crafting, what worries me is how Smed was poping down undead with a handgun like it was nothing, and seemed more interested in the pvp aspect of it. Yes, it's alpha, but if killing zombies is as easy as that, what happens when players are loaded with m16, snipers, grenades, etc?
Let's hope those "zombie types" are atleast good. Or maybe have the zombies can climb walls, leap at you from afar. Something.
EDIT: BTW, the reason why i'm somewhat angry at this is because i'd love a proper survival horror mmo, or large scale multiplayer, without pvp (and i like pvp too). But zombies? Urgh.
It's the common problem with all zombie based things. Even the walking dead has really stopped being about surviving the zombies. It's the humans that always seem to be the real threat and the zombies are just there to make it " horror"
If you totally removed zombies from the walking dead how much would the stories really need to change?
That's been my issue with all of these zombie apocalypse survival games. Why are the zombies there ? They just seem more of a social experiment than a survival game. " look how terrible people become when you limit resources they need "
THis is a very good point, and goes along with what I've been saying about most zombie titles, they're just a gimmick for their appeal (ohhh zombies). Here they better be a real threat, otherwise as you said, it becomes nothing but what you described, not that that can't still be good, it's just using zombies for the sake of it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Zombies fill the role of us against them. They stand in for either the Russian, Chinese, Koreans, or Vietnamese. The big difference I feel between this game and SWG is that there will only be one side for players.
I read a post earlier about looking for a can of beans and dieing. I hope that is not what the game is like. Here is what I expect from the spiritual successor to SWG. Spawn in a NPC fortified city. Learn basic rolls from NPC. Learn Novice Survivor, acquire basic shelter construction, terrain negotiation, animal harvesting, and other skills I will keep to myself.
Learn Novice Farmer to be able to scavenge for wild seed and farm, to domesticate and breed will animals for food and utility. Learn Novice Handyman, to craft starter gear and open up advanced crafting profession paths. Learn Novice First Aid, to heal between fights in a camp. Learn Novice Guitar to easy my mind and buff my spirits after a day of dealing with the dead. Learn Novice Melee fighting just to figure out how to use a bat and steel pipe to defend myself.
I think from here you can see where I am going with this. You may not like it, but to me this is what SWG was.Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
World War Z was a slightly different take on the zombie thing. The zombies in that movie were a serious threat. Is that style what players really want though? I get the feeling they want the human element to be the real threat.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I can see where you are going. To you, SWG was just a crafting game and you thinks basic game mechanics was all it was. SWG was more than crafting, it was a game heavy in RPing a setting, one that could be duplicated even without the Star Wars name if the Sci-Fi setting was there.
There is a reason why MMORPGs are not made in a modern setting and just a modern setting, real life is boring and killing off most of the population makes it even more boring. Even TSW added magic, portals and ancient tech. Reality is not meant for MMOs.
So The Secret World isnt a survival horror MMO? It must at least be considered a horror mmo. And then there is Fallen Earth which has or had some some zombies in it but is post apocolyptic mmo.
Or are we just adding more sub genres to make niche more of a niche because of certain game mechanics?
I think it depends on it being a pvp or pve player you ask. All these zombie games seem the same to me because they're all just pvp games at the core. If this ones really going to break out and be something different ( or big) it has to appeal to people not looking to gank or be ganked by other players as the underlining point of the game.
wwz style would be a more zombie oriented pve focused game. the fortresses they speak of could almost act like a tower defense style of feature but in an mmo setting where the day time you spend gathering and building and zombies are a minor threat ( players could be on a pvp server ) and at night you hide inside your walls and focus on your defenses and keeping the very dangerous ( buffed from day time ) zombies out.
My biggest fear ( for this game ) is that this game launches and the first thing you see is a guy with a ! over his head and he sends you out to kill 10 zombies.
Smed is directing everyone to Reddit as a place to discuss the game, and made a longish post there about the game. They've been working on it for a while, and he hopes to have a playable (alpha, I'm sure) version out for early adopters in 4-6 weeks. Very smart of him to use Reddit, because that way they don't even have to worry about game forums and other stuff this early in.
I get the impression this is a pet project of his, as he seems to be taking the lead in talking about it, and is very excited. I think that's pretty cool.
He has mentioned that the crafting will be deeper than anything we've seen in a long time, and that almost everything you need in the game can/will be crafted. We'll be building shelters, homes, camps and all kinds of things.
He's using the PS2 Forgelight engine, and some of the game code they will be adding to PS2 soon. Over time, he's planning to make a huge post apocalyptic version of the entire United States, including urban areas. Player cooperation will be key. He said the launch area will already be huge, but that he wants this persistent world game to keep growing. He said in a video that the game area will be "orders of magnitude" larger than PS2 map area.
Sounds like we will all have some real details soon enough, at least on the alpha version. SOE is putting this under the same umbrella as how they are handling EQ Landmark, where players will help drive the direction of the game as it is developed.
There's more info out there than some of you know, but really, it's just starting to come out. Most of it directly from Smed.
I also agree with others here who say the author of this article is off base. I'm extremely interested in what this game may offer, and frankly, zombies are just part of the setting. No, it's not Star Wars, but SOE no longer has the rights to that, and frankly, they probably don't want them. H1Z1 can go anywhere they want to take it without the baggage of Star Wars lore, intellectual property and Disney.
Having played some DayZ myself, the first thought that came to my head was this would make a great cooperative, persistent MMORPG, where players had to survive in a messed up world and deal with all kinds of threats. I haven't been playing a lot of zombie games, because they aren't MMO's, so this idea isn't played out for me.
SWG was a game light in RP. And heavy in the themepark quest to achieve Jedi.
I listed the Novice Professions because those were the foundation mechanics that the SWG game provided. Mechanics are something that can be built and added to a game or left out entirely. RP is what you do with those mechanics. RP can not be either added or left out. So I didn’t bother to discuss it. But I felt I mentioned other professions other than crafting.
I don’t see the Sci-FI setting as critical to being a successor to SWG. To me the game could be set in the past, present or future. I’ve been RPing since ‘72 as Konfess, and if lack of a Sci-Fi setting is a make or break feature for you then I am deeply sorry.Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
how about space combat and atmospheric flight? and housing?
so this has what to do with SWG exactly? not that it does not look interesing but this can not be the SWG type title
You must have played after NGE because no one in their right mind would think SWG was RP light. That was THE RP MMORPG and none since has had an RP community even close to it since.
thats what i want, I want Zombies to be the ultimate threat I want them to be smart, fast and deadly. where as you want to stay away from Zombie and run from them unless you have no other option. I want people to die more to zombies than they do other players, i want zombies to be so damn strong that its almost a death sentence to go out by yourself unless you are extremely skilled or very lucky.
if it was up to me if someone was around a pack of Zombies they would get a "panic" debuff that would throw off their aim and maybe their screen would get more and more blurry. which would then be offset by having other players near you.