Some of you guys seem to be forgetting something. Hybrid models are both F2P AND P2P. You cannot call Rift and SWTOR F2P only anymore than you can call WoW P2P only. WoW, Rift, & SWTOR, all have some level of F2P and yet still earn revenue from subscriptions. P2P isn't going anywhere.
And those were just 3 off the top of my head. How many other games are currently still operating that still earn revenues from subscribers?
The term is freemium, although I would not call WoW's limited edition as either F2P nor freemium. It's a free trial, with unlimited duration, using a fixed very low level cap.
Aion is still up and running, and they tried the "Truly F2P" model to give the entire game away as F2P without any gameplay restrictions. Can't say it's fully profitable, but I applaud the effort.
Some of you guys seem to be forgetting something. Hybrid models are both F2P AND P2P. You cannot call Rift and SWTOR F2P only anymore than you can call WoW P2P only. WoW, Rift, & SWTOR, all have some level of F2P and yet still earn revenue from subscriptions. P2P isn't going anywhere.
And those were just 3 off the top of my head. How many other games are currently still operating that still earn revenues from subscribers?
The term is freemium, although I would not call WoW's limited edition as either F2P nor freemium. It's a free trial, with unlimited duration, using a fixed very low level cap.
Aion is still up and running, and they tried the "Truly F2P" model to give the entire game away as F2P without any gameplay restrictions. Can't say it's fully profitable, but I applaud the effort.
WoW caps a lot of things in it's F2P model. But that's not the point. The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions as are many other "F2P" games even beyond these three. Don't LOTRO and AOC still offer subscription options?
The most successful F2P game made almost a billion dollars in one year. F2P is the future. If developers make a shit F2P game, they make no money. It's that simple.
Some of you guys seem to be forgetting something. Hybrid models are both F2P AND P2P. You cannot call Rift and SWTOR F2P only anymore than you can call WoW P2P only. WoW, Rift, & SWTOR, all have some level of F2P and yet still earn revenue from subscriptions. P2P isn't going anywhere.
And those were just 3 off the top of my head. How many other games are currently still operating that still earn revenues from subscribers?
The term is freemium, although I would not call WoW's limited edition as either F2P nor freemium. It's a free trial, with unlimited duration, using a fixed very low level cap.
Aion is still up and running, and they tried the "Truly F2P" model to give the entire game away as F2P without any gameplay restrictions. Can't say it's fully profitable, but I applaud the effort.
WoW caps a lot of things in it's F2P model. But that's not the point. The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions as are many other "F2P" games even beyond these three. Don't LOTRO and AOC still offer subscription options?
Barely, the problem is they are freemium (LotR and AoC) and for bloody sake stop calling a trial anything else than a trial, it does not matter if it is unlimited when, especially in themepark games, the full experience isn't even close to being offered.
One of the most successful F2P games current is LoL with other games like War Thunder and World of Tanks being notable as well and while you may argue that the latter two have a premium account option at a fixed monthly rate a set % extra to earning it is hardly a consideration in terms of gameplay when skill and reflexes makes or breaks your game. As for MMOs... aside from games with a system like Neverwinter Online's (where everything could be earned via gameplay in time) there really hasn't been anything truly F2P yet... remains to be seen how Gloria Victis, Albion Online, The Repopulation and the coming wave of purpose built F2P MMOs may shake things up in that respect.
Some of you guys seem to be forgetting something. Hybrid models are both F2P AND P2P. You cannot call Rift and SWTOR F2P only anymore than you can call WoW P2P only. WoW, Rift, & SWTOR, all have some level of F2P and yet still earn revenue from subscriptions. P2P isn't going anywhere.
And those were just 3 off the top of my head. How many other games are currently still operating that still earn revenues from subscribers?
The term is freemium, although I would not call WoW's limited edition as either F2P nor freemium. It's a free trial, with unlimited duration, using a fixed very low level cap.
Aion is still up and running, and they tried the "Truly F2P" model to give the entire game away as F2P without any gameplay restrictions. Can't say it's fully profitable, but I applaud the effort.
WoW caps a lot of things in it's F2P model. But that's not the point. The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions as are many other "F2P" games even beyond these three. Don't LOTRO and AOC still offer subscription options?
WoW does not have a F2P model. Limited time periods are not F2P either, with your other examples.
I'm not sure what your point was.
EVE has a free trial period too, but it isn't F2P.
Some of you guys seem to be forgetting something. Hybrid models are both F2P AND P2P. You cannot call Rift and SWTOR F2P only anymore than you can call WoW P2P only. WoW, Rift, & SWTOR, all have some level of F2P and yet still earn revenue from subscriptions. P2P isn't going anywhere.
And those were just 3 off the top of my head. How many other games are currently still operating that still earn revenues from subscribers?
The term is freemium, although I would not call WoW's limited edition as either F2P nor freemium. It's a free trial, with unlimited duration, using a fixed very low level cap.
Aion is still up and running, and they tried the "Truly F2P" model to give the entire game away as F2P without any gameplay restrictions. Can't say it's fully profitable, but I applaud the effort.
WoW caps a lot of things in it's F2P model. But that's not the point. The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions as are many other "F2P" games even beyond these three. Don't LOTRO and AOC still offer subscription options?
WoW does not have a F2P model. Limited time periods are not F2P either, with your other examples.
I'm not sure what your point was.
EVE has a free trial period too, but it isn't F2P.
"I'm not sure what your point was."
"The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions..."
Does that help? Not sure how I can make it any simpler than that.
Some of you guys seem to be forgetting something. Hybrid models are both F2P AND P2P. You cannot call Rift and SWTOR F2P only anymore than you can call WoW P2P only. WoW, Rift, & SWTOR, all have some level of F2P and yet still earn revenue from subscriptions. P2P isn't going anywhere.
And those were just 3 off the top of my head. How many other games are currently still operating that still earn revenues from subscribers?
The term is freemium, although I would not call WoW's limited edition as either F2P nor freemium. It's a free trial, with unlimited duration, using a fixed very low level cap.
Aion is still up and running, and they tried the "Truly F2P" model to give the entire game away as F2P without any gameplay restrictions. Can't say it's fully profitable, but I applaud the effort.
WoW caps a lot of things in it's F2P model. But that's not the point. The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions as are many other "F2P" games even beyond these three. Don't LOTRO and AOC still offer subscription options?
WoW does not have a F2P model. Limited time periods are not F2P either, with your other examples.
I'm not sure what your point was.
EVE has a free trial period too, but it isn't F2P.
"I'm not sure what your point was."
"The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions..."
Does that help? Not sure how I can make it any simpler than that.
Of course free samples help sell a product.
But you are mixing freemium with F2P, with free trials scattered in. Freemium folks are expected to pay extra.
I never liked f2p, but now with p2p putting microtrans in their games too, I basically have no choice if I want to game. So with that.... ALL games might as well be f2p
Eh, a majority of MMO players still P2P games, even with the huge insurgency of F2P cash grabs. WoW is still sub and still the largest MMO by a long shot. With games like ESO and WildStar coming out sub based, I foresee more P2P in the coming years than large F2P games.
The only major F2P game coming out in the near future is EQ:N afaik.
Archeage... The Repopulation... Gloria Victis.... Perpetuum Online has gone B2P... need I really continue?
Archeage will probably have a pretty healthy population, but those others are going to go the way of the dodo I fear. Gloria Victis shows a little promise, but we'll just have to see.
There's numerous examples which dropped the sub req. and are doing great because of it, like TSW, DCUO, tera, D&DO, star trek, rift, SWTOR...
Wildstar was F2P originally but after they saw how huge interest the game has, they decided to milk the players (I guess they'll switch back to F2P when they won't be satisfied with the incomes anymore)
So the trend here shows that P2P doesn't really work in long term anymore and only those games which were the best survived and are still living on thanks to the playerbase (and the fact that you can run WOW on a toaster) like EVE or mentioned - WOW.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
Some of you guys seem to be forgetting something. Hybrid models are both F2P AND P2P. You cannot call Rift and SWTOR F2P only anymore than you can call WoW P2P only. WoW, Rift, & SWTOR, all have some level of F2P and yet still earn revenue from subscriptions. P2P isn't going anywhere.
And those were just 3 off the top of my head. How many other games are currently still operating that still earn revenues from subscribers?
The term is freemium, although I would not call WoW's limited edition as either F2P nor freemium. It's a free trial, with unlimited duration, using a fixed very low level cap.
Aion is still up and running, and they tried the "Truly F2P" model to give the entire game away as F2P without any gameplay restrictions. Can't say it's fully profitable, but I applaud the effort.
WoW caps a lot of things in it's F2P model. But that's not the point. The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions as are many other "F2P" games even beyond these three. Don't LOTRO and AOC still offer subscription options?
WoW does not have a F2P model. Limited time periods are not F2P either, with your other examples.
I'm not sure what your point was.
EVE has a free trial period too, but it isn't F2P.
"I'm not sure what your point was."
"The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions..."
Does that help? Not sure how I can make it any simpler than that.
Of course free samples help sell a product.
But you are mixing freemium with F2P, with free trials scattered in. Freemium folks are expected to pay extra.
OK, how about I say it like this.
Subscriptions aren't going away. Boxed fees probably are. And Cash shops will be a standard.
As far as free tp play goes, well, I'm not sure where to put that one. But Freemium as you called it, is probably where most games will end up. Or at least the most profitable ones.
(This is my crystal ball prediction and there are no facts to back that up. Just what I think will happen.)
i loved how the man in the video talked quickly but clearly, enjoyed the video
it's actually sad to see how a game attracts players, only to make it pay 2 win, extracting moneys from the players, only to lose it's appeal and after that, closes itself.
I'm still on the fence on the whole notion of f2p. One one hand it gives me the option to jump into a game without any commitment and try it out. However, I find things like paying for bag space, potions and various forms of content - whether it be a dungeon or a mount, somewhat of putting. More generally, I dislike how the cash shop seems to invade every corner of the game - although this feeling is more common in mobile gaming than MMO's.
I prefer P2P, since I can just sit down and play the game without the nagging feeling that I could be playing a little better or doing things a little faster if I just buy that XP potion or that cool looking mount. I payed my sub, everyone around me has payed that sub and nobody is at an advantage or disavantage or missing out on anything. Moreover, I can be confident that future patches and expansions will be focused on making the game better rather than finding new ways of extracting money from me.
However, I recognise that F2P isn't going anywhere and is the extraction method of choice for developers. But the thing is, most players do not put that much money into these MMO's. Maybe $5 to buy more inventory space and that's it. It's only a tiny minority known as "whales" that are actually paying for the running of the game. This strikes me as a very inefficiant and risky way to do business. I believe that in some games 0.01% of the player populations is paying for 90% of the development and running cost of some games. That's just a house of cards just waiting to tumble. There will be games that just don't attract the right type of player or offer the right sort of items in their cash shops and that will cause a relatively good game to crash.
Games in which "The more money you put in, the more advantage you have", make a ton of money... initially... after that, they go down, and quick.
If that is the type of game the OP was saying is "the future", he is sadly mistaken. The games that have longevity, will be those that have fleshed out story, gameplay, and other immersion tactics will be the ones that will be "successful".
Guess what OP? Subscription games are going to be the ones to outlast the rest. Need a little proof? Check out EQ... 15 years on, and still kicking. In that same time period, how many true F2P/cash-shop/P2W games have come up and bit the dust?
If you think that F2P games are the future, look down at your udders, cause you are the type that those gaming companies like to milk.
Some of you guys seem to be forgetting something. Hybrid models are both F2P AND P2P. You cannot call Rift and SWTOR F2P only anymore than you can call WoW P2P only. WoW, Rift, & SWTOR, all have some level of F2P and yet still earn revenue from subscriptions. P2P isn't going anywhere.
And those were just 3 off the top of my head. How many other games are currently still operating that still earn revenues from subscribers?
The term is freemium, although I would not call WoW's limited edition as either F2P nor freemium. It's a free trial, with unlimited duration, using a fixed very low level cap.
Aion is still up and running, and they tried the "Truly F2P" model to give the entire game away as F2P without any gameplay restrictions. Can't say it's fully profitable, but I applaud the effort.
WoW caps a lot of things in it's F2P model. But that's not the point. The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions as are many other "F2P" games even beyond these three. Don't LOTRO and AOC still offer subscription options?
WoW does not have a F2P model. Limited time periods are not F2P either, with your other examples.
I'm not sure what your point was.
EVE has a free trial period too, but it isn't F2P.
"I'm not sure what your point was."
"The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions..."
Does that help? Not sure how I can make it any simpler than that.
Of course free samples help sell a product.
But you are mixing freemium with F2P, with free trials scattered in. Freemium folks are expected to pay extra.
OK, how about I say it like this.
Subscriptions aren't going away. Boxed fees probably are. And Cash shops will be a standard.
As far as free tp play goes, well, I'm not sure where to put that one. But Freemium as you called it, is probably where most games will end up. Or at least the most profitable ones.
(This is my crystal ball prediction and there are no facts to back that up. Just what I think will happen.)
If box prices go away, then that implies the quality of games will go up to justify subscriptions. If true, I'm OK with that.
I'm not totally there with you on subscriptions + cash shop being standard but we'll see. If I pay a sub, I'd rather have everything available in-game, personally. Screw the cash-shop. No matter how long or hard it takes, there should never be a cash-shop to belittle everyone elses experiences, with a credit card.
What they should do is sell the box + cash shop + paid DLCs. This way it would encourage the developers to actually create cool content that people would want.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoarA f2p kids mmo that launched in 96 or 97.
Meridian 59 was about '96 ....
Was is a mud? never heard of it, now I'm intrigued.
Muds are text based games. The mmos before graphics mmos.
My comment was just regarding the idea a few posters up had indicated that p2p is the only model with longevity. Considering many p2p have flopped that's obviously false. The payment model will not save a bad game. A bad p2p will still be a bad f2p. However the payment model has to fit the game as well. A bad f2p will likely be a horrid p2p.
edit - Sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were asking what is a mud.
Furcadia is 2d mmo. Quite old, reportedly in the Guinness book of records for the longest continuously running social mmo. Not sure about that but it's one of the old ones anyway.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Games in which "The more money you put in, the more advantage you have", make a ton of money... initially... after that, they go down, and quick.
If that is the type of game the OP was saying is "the future", he is sadly mistaken. The games that have longevity, will be those that have fleshed out story, gameplay, and other immersion tactics will be the ones that will be "successful".
Guess what OP? Subscription games are going to be the ones to outlast the rest. Need a little proof? Check out EQ... 15 years on, and still kicking. In that same time period, how many true F2P/cash-shop/P2W games have come up and bit the dust?
If you think that F2P games are the future, look down at your udders, cause you are the type that those gaming companies like to milk.
As Venge already pointed out there are F2P games which are up and running for longer than most P2P games and you mention EQ like that is a good thing when the game has been F2P for a good few years now.
Now as far as milking is concerned... well if it is a transcendental experience with a good F2P system (read not P2W or freemium) then what would be the problem? Somehow your logic here is non-existent because unlike you with P2P I can choose to pay you have absolutely no choice and excluding EVE-Online and maybe a few others that includes the box price and a sub (do not try to lump in B2P into your argument because that is a middle ground between P2P and F2P).
Edit: Oh and I will personally enjoy it when WoW and its themepark ilk finally abandon all notions of P2P and go F2P or B2P as the only game currently in existence that has a right to the P2P model because of its mechanics is EVE-Online, the rest are just greedy and/or lazy designers preying on fools that think P2P is a mark of quality in either content, present and future, or community.
Comments
The term is freemium, although I would not call WoW's limited edition as either F2P nor freemium. It's a free trial, with unlimited duration, using a fixed very low level cap.
Aion is still up and running, and they tried the "Truly F2P" model to give the entire game away as F2P without any gameplay restrictions. Can't say it's fully profitable, but I applaud the effort.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
WoW caps a lot of things in it's F2P model. But that's not the point. The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions as are many other "F2P" games even beyond these three. Don't LOTRO and AOC still offer subscription options?
Barely, the problem is they are freemium (LotR and AoC) and for bloody sake stop calling a trial anything else than a trial, it does not matter if it is unlimited when, especially in themepark games, the full experience isn't even close to being offered.
One of the most successful F2P games current is LoL with other games like War Thunder and World of Tanks being notable as well and while you may argue that the latter two have a premium account option at a fixed monthly rate a set % extra to earning it is hardly a consideration in terms of gameplay when skill and reflexes makes or breaks your game. As for MMOs... aside from games with a system like Neverwinter Online's (where everything could be earned via gameplay in time) there really hasn't been anything truly F2P yet... remains to be seen how Gloria Victis, Albion Online, The Repopulation and the coming wave of purpose built F2P MMOs may shake things up in that respect.
WoW does not have a F2P model. Limited time periods are not F2P either, with your other examples.
I'm not sure what your point was.
EVE has a free trial period too, but it isn't F2P.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
"I'm not sure what your point was."
"The point is, they are earning money through subscriptions..."
Does that help? Not sure how I can make it any simpler than that.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Of course free samples help sell a product.
But you are mixing freemium with F2P, with free trials scattered in. Freemium folks are expected to pay extra.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
There's numerous examples which dropped the sub req. and are doing great because of it, like TSW, DCUO, tera, D&DO, star trek, rift, SWTOR...
Wildstar was F2P originally but after they saw how huge interest the game has, they decided to milk the players (I guess they'll switch back to F2P when they won't be satisfied with the incomes anymore)
So the trend here shows that P2P doesn't really work in long term anymore and only those games which were the best survived and are still living on thanks to the playerbase (and the fact that you can run WOW on a toaster) like EVE or mentioned - WOW.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
OK, how about I say it like this.
Subscriptions aren't going away. Boxed fees probably are. And Cash shops will be a standard.
As far as free tp play goes, well, I'm not sure where to put that one. But Freemium as you called it, is probably where most games will end up. Or at least the most profitable ones.
(This is my crystal ball prediction and there are no facts to back that up. Just what I think will happen.)
i loved how the man in the video talked quickly but clearly, enjoyed the video
it's actually sad to see how a game attracts players, only to make it pay 2 win, extracting moneys from the players, only to lose it's appeal and after that, closes itself.
I'm still on the fence on the whole notion of f2p. One one hand it gives me the option to jump into a game without any commitment and try it out. However, I find things like paying for bag space, potions and various forms of content - whether it be a dungeon or a mount, somewhat of putting. More generally, I dislike how the cash shop seems to invade every corner of the game - although this feeling is more common in mobile gaming than MMO's.
I prefer P2P, since I can just sit down and play the game without the nagging feeling that I could be playing a little better or doing things a little faster if I just buy that XP potion or that cool looking mount. I payed my sub, everyone around me has payed that sub and nobody is at an advantage or disavantage or missing out on anything. Moreover, I can be confident that future patches and expansions will be focused on making the game better rather than finding new ways of extracting money from me.
However, I recognise that F2P isn't going anywhere and is the extraction method of choice for developers. But the thing is, most players do not put that much money into these MMO's. Maybe $5 to buy more inventory space and that's it. It's only a tiny minority known as "whales" that are actually paying for the running of the game. This strikes me as a very inefficiant and risky way to do business. I believe that in some games 0.01% of the player populations is paying for 90% of the development and running cost of some games. That's just a house of cards just waiting to tumble. There will be games that just don't attract the right type of player or offer the right sort of items in their cash shops and that will cause a relatively good game to crash.
You might be right about that, Camelot Unchained will have a tiered subscription model as well.
<InvalidTag type="text/javascript" src="http://www.gamebreaker.tv/cce/e.js"></script><div class="cce_pane" content-slug="which-world-of-warcraft-villain-are-you" ctype="quiz" d="http://www.gamebreaker.tv"></div>;
Games in which "The more money you put in, the more advantage you have", make a ton of money... initially... after that, they go down, and quick.
If that is the type of game the OP was saying is "the future", he is sadly mistaken. The games that have longevity, will be those that have fleshed out story, gameplay, and other immersion tactics will be the ones that will be "successful".
Guess what OP? Subscription games are going to be the ones to outlast the rest. Need a little proof? Check out EQ... 15 years on, and still kicking. In that same time period, how many true F2P/cash-shop/P2W games have come up and bit the dust?
If you think that F2P games are the future, look down at your udders, cause you are the type that those gaming companies like to milk.
If box prices go away, then that implies the quality of games will go up to justify subscriptions. If true, I'm OK with that.
I'm not totally there with you on subscriptions + cash shop being standard but we'll see. If I pay a sub, I'd rather have everything available in-game, personally. Screw the cash-shop. No matter how long or hard it takes, there should never be a cash-shop to belittle everyone elses experiences, with a credit card.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
EQ can be played free now.
And Furcadia is older than EQ.
F2p has just as much longevity as p2p.
<InvalidTag type="text/javascript" src="http://www.gamebreaker.tv/cce/e.js"></script><div class="cce_pane" content-slug="which-world-of-warcraft-villain-are-you" ctype="quiz" d="http://www.gamebreaker.tv"></div>;
Furcadia ?
Pardon me Sir / Madam .. what is furcadia?
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
A f2p kids mmo that launched in 96 or 97.
Meridian 59 was about '96 ....
Was is a mud? never heard of it, now I'm intrigued.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Muds are text based games. The mmos before graphics mmos.
My comment was just regarding the idea a few posters up had indicated that p2p is the only model with longevity. Considering many p2p have flopped that's obviously false. The payment model will not save a bad game. A bad p2p will still be a bad f2p. However the payment model has to fit the game as well. A bad f2p will likely be a horrid p2p.
edit - Sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were asking what is a mud.
Furcadia is 2d mmo. Quite old, reportedly in the Guinness book of records for the longest continuously running social mmo. Not sure about that but it's one of the old ones anyway.
As Venge already pointed out there are F2P games which are up and running for longer than most P2P games and you mention EQ like that is a good thing when the game has been F2P for a good few years now.
Now as far as milking is concerned... well if it is a transcendental experience with a good F2P system (read not P2W or freemium) then what would be the problem? Somehow your logic here is non-existent because unlike you with P2P I can choose to pay you have absolutely no choice and excluding EVE-Online and maybe a few others that includes the box price and a sub (do not try to lump in B2P into your argument because that is a middle ground between P2P and F2P).
Edit: Oh and I will personally enjoy it when WoW and its themepark ilk finally abandon all notions of P2P and go F2P or B2P as the only game currently in existence that has a right to the P2P model because of its mechanics is EVE-Online, the rest are just greedy and/or lazy designers preying on fools that think P2P is a mark of quality in either content, present and future, or community.