Originally posted by Talemire IMO, DK and Templar can't even touch the utility and survivability of a wisely-specced NB. All except maybe 2 or 3 of their class abilities are useless.
I started with a DK and if has been very underwhelming so far. I am still very low level without great gear. Could be that gear matters a lot to a DK.
I found the beginning of the game challenging as I had no real gear and a really poor weapon. It was quite the challenge and I enjoyed it. Now as I gather a bit better gear the game is getting considerably easier. It is still nice to see the solo part of the game isn't super easy for all classes.
Of course they don't - Cyrodiil has the unpredictable *human* factor - so you never know what you're gonna face.
Also the fact that you can change skills as you see fit - makes it very easy to create 2 weapons for PvP and 2 for PvE - just swap some skills around. Love that about ESO - it's so easy to move skills around, I never feel like I am pigenholed into doing one thing.
Example - I normally am the main healer for my guild - been doing this since 1999 - healing. In ESO I also tank dungeon bosses - simply drop my destro staff and replace with sword/board + spiked armor = instant tank!
ESO is really awesomely flexible when it comes to build - you can create really kick ass combos for any situation (you can also really gimp yourself) - there's two sides to that coin.
I knew I would manage to pick up probably the worst build. DK with one hand/shield and bow as secondary weapon.
But I don't really care. I am only lvl 17 but so far I have managed to kill everything I encountered. Needed some thinking sometimes and I died more often than others I guess, but hey, no biggie.
It's just that imo a tank should have a shield and I really don't like those staffs and the nuking. Just not my style. So I play what I like and not what is the most efficient build. My fault.
Likewise. I know my one hand + shield and heavy armor templar is apparently not the best build, but I enjoy it thoroughly.
Dragonmage resto/destro staff = solo skulls and world bosses
Single target = molten talons + any ranged weapon rinse and repeat = can solo group dungeon bosses with this
If target can't be rooted - bubble + dots + kite
Getting swarmed by 10+ mobs - no problem AoE away, talons + fire breath + any destro staff AE
If at any point get low - switch to resto bubble, heal
With the right build the game is super easy.
this won't work endgame. might be fine for soloing but you won't be able to stun/snare bosses in veteran dungeons, adventure zones etc, and they'll probably kill you in two hits if you're not a tank. sure, the game is easy during the leveling process, but that will change.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
TESO is not a true trinity style system like WoW, TERA or SWTOR. TESO is more like GW2 where the tank classes rely on self healing to survive. DK's are not designed, even with heavy armor and sword and board skill sets like a traditional tank should be. Play a DK with heavy armor and sword and board and let me know how many fights make you feel like you can tank. I'm curious to hear how many of you think DK's are actually a traditional tank class and not some TANK + HEAL hybrid like GW2 uses.
Nonsense. it's not the TYPICAL trinity style, which is fine by me. The tank doesn't have an AOE taunt that keeps everything locked on him for 30 seconds while the healer just spams single target heals on him. It's more challenging to tank, dps and heal in this game because of this. it's a welcome change.
Plus, my Imperial DK sword and board with Draconic power has hardly any self heals except for dragon blood, which isn't really that helpful when you've only got 200 magicka.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
Will I ever read again something like "Thousands of groups of players wipe every hour for weeks, trying to defeat boss..."
You must not be following FFXIV. Coil T9 has yet to be beaten yet, been up for 3 weeks.
Too bad it's not interesting enough or fun to play because you have zero customizability and variation between characters other than gear and player skill. That and farming myth by running a stupidly easy dungeon 100 times a week (and only killing the first two bosses) makes the coil challenge not worth it enough to play.
and that global cooldown...... ughhhhh
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
I enjoyed Christina's article and concur that some of the fights can be challenging. A few of my buddies and my spouse found this particular fight very challenging and had to adjust tactics accordingly. My only gripe and perhaps I missed it but I spent about an hour trying to phase up with a friend to find out later it was solo. Should be more obviously stated but then again, I could have overlooked it.
To the posters claiming that the game is too easy and if you are having problems, you are " doing it wrong"..........I'm glad that you are finding it so easy and I'm glad you can burn down 20 mobs solo including bosses. Remember that not all players play at your level. Many folks do find encounters challenging judging from guild chat. People come in all shapes and sizes and that includes ability levels. Perhaps when they introduce the 12 person challenges, the more pro players can jump into these and show us your prowess by your ranking on the leader boards.
If both melee and ranged had a big issue with this fight, I'd agree with this article. But your friend blows through a fight with ease because this solo fight has a mechanic that's overly punishing to melee while makes it faceroll easy for a ranged?
This whole story actually sounds like it's a testiment to terrible game balance rather than glorifying a challenge.
Yeah, at level 10, as a 2-Hander Templar, this was my personal bugbear. Attempts included 30 minute fights in which neither one of us could kill the other until I just gave up from frustration. Switching to a bow made it a lot easier and I was able to down her with a minimum of fuss.
I am told AOE is also a good option in order to kill her orbs ASAP as they do not have much health.
Normally I play also as 2H templar dps + some resto skills. While sticking with 2H at level 8 Doshia was challenging really - mostly due to bubbles what I did was to switch for this one fight to fire destruction staff (I already had played with it a few moments so I could get wall aoe). Just this change caused fight (level 8, all items white) to be quite easy really. Still fun but totally different experience at the same time.
Originally posted by JeroKane So you found a FOTM build. Good for you! Will be first on the nerf hammer list. Enjoy while it lasts.If you just pick a class and build you enjoy and not chasing the FOTM, then the game is fun and challenging.Cheers
So, what you are saying is that if you choose a bad weapon and have a bad skill build then the game is challenging?
Well, that should be obvious.
If you want to play what you like then fine, go ahead, just dont complain when others choose a weapon and build combo based purely on power and have an easier time.
Lets be serious here, ESO is horribly balanced. MMOs with open free form skill systems always have this problem. So, look forward to a long and unending game of "Nerf Hammer Whack-A-Mole" when it comes to Fad of the Month builds because even if they do nerf the DK Fire staff/Resto staff build then some other combination of class plus weapon plus skills will rise to take its place.
"You have the freedom..........to pick a worthless build, suck, and die a lot. Or you can just pick these other builds that will let you solo most everything easily"
I love ESO - the PvP is very awesome and fun to me.
PvE is a complete /faceroll - my guild group (yes they are all DKs) - we are at lvl 45 now - we've done all group dungeons in every faction without a SINGLE death period.
I am not joking.
But we all use good builds - so again /faceroll.
You should look up the word "bashing" - it doesn't mean what you think it means.
If you have any issues with me or my posts - report me to the mods please.
Ofc the faceroll if you group ^^ it is faceroll if you are only 2 in group it is always faceroll in mmo if you are group dont matter if play WoW, SWTOR, LOTRO, Vandguard, AoC, VaH, The Secret World so to name few other mmo which is faceroll when are group up in but then again WoW is faceroll when solo playing that game ^^
The point i try to make is sit here say a mmo on pve side is faceroll when you are group is somewhat stupid for we all know that and it is even more faceroll when are 4 people in group.
So far I've found it more challenging than most mmo's. Maybe my build isn't leet enough - but that's ok I'm having fun and am able to handle most things with some strategy
Originally posted by xpiher Dying had no meaning in the game what so ever so I fail to see how the game is challenging just because you can die.
I died 3 times at level 12 and had a 900 gold repair build. Yeah that didn't sting at all :P What is an acceptable death penalty to you xp / level loss or corpse runs?
Originally posted by xpiher Dying had no meaning in the game what so ever so I fail to see how the game is challenging just because you can die.
So what's stopping you from deleting your character when you die? Permadeath challenging enough for you?
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I knew I would manage to pick up probably the worst build. DK with one hand/shield and bow as secondary weapon.
But I don't really care. I am only lvl 17 but so far I have managed to kill everything I encountered. Needed some thinking sometimes and I died more often than others I guess, but hey, no biggie.
It's just that imo a tank should have a shield and I really don't like those staffs and the nuking. Just not my style. So I play what I like and not what is the most efficient build. My fault.
Refreshing to know there are others out there that play what they want and don't min/max, FOTM, uber build their way though every game...
Ye, and then they go on forums....or even worse....write an ARTICLE about how challenging the game is. When the truth is its pretty faceroll.
If you want a challenge in other (similar) games just take off all your armor and have a go. Though noone will take you seriously (like this article) if you then go on forums and talk about "how challenging the game is"
Theres challenge in any game - if youre willing to take it (like running raids with as few people as possible, soloing on level dungeons, soloing world bosses/"elite" areas....) yeah, ive done all of that and its definately time consuming AND much much more challenging than your weekly "on farm" raid but ingame rewards in current games dont reward skill (GW2 is an exception here as you do get top of the line loot form soloing a dungeon, but, you do get a chance of top of the line loot for jumping puzzle also and its actually much better than putting top of the line loot in "on farm" raids)
Let me offer some Advice for those doing a Stamina Build as a DK at the Start
Go 2 hander (your other weapon can be sword/shield for dungeons and tanking)
Get the first ability out of the two hander tree, Morph it in Brawler
Now work your way up the Earthen Heart Line and get the Molten Shield ability.
You're now able to solo pretty much most of the the world bosses, and most group dungeons with ease.
Both Absorb Shields Stack with one another, If you stack health they become even stronger..Both together was pretty much over Half my Life at pretty much all points of the game.
But yea... Very Easy to level this way.
You can start leveling with Sword/Shield when you get Deadly Bash Trait 2 of 2... This will make your interrupt ability (Shield Bash) do more damage then Auto Attack from 2 hander and duel wield, and you can Block while spamming it (it also interrupts)
Also some people are confused about Tanking in this game, All Classes can tank..There is no set Tank Class
if you're going to tank in a dungeon you really only need a few things
1 handed Shield, you want the first Skill morphed to Puncture Armor, and you want Defensive Posture.. That's pretty much all ya need from that line in terms of tanking..next you want capped Armor and as much spell resist as possible..how you get that is up to you..You can go Heavy Armor if you want the Block Cost reduction, but i've tanked every single boss with 5 Medium/2 Heavy just as easily.
Now all ya need to actually Tank is to hit the target with Puncture One time, Do not spam it..only reapply that ability when it runs out. It doesn't work like other games where it acts like a Taunt when ya hit..instead it constantly taunts the target while the debuff is up.
You basically want to Hold Down Block at this point and attack in between strikes from the boss while avoiding whatever mechanic it has.
By the sound of how people are talking about different classes being better than others to the point some content can not be completed, it makes me think the devs failed on this one.
Theres a difference with npc fights revolving around mechanics that involve dodge, micro managment of adds, avoiding aoe circles and other actual mechanics that are intuitive as well (not almost invisible buffs that mean a player is meant to understand they have a 'mechanic' to react to)... and then there barely being any mechanics (or not the reason for the deaths of players in their classes) and the fights are more about being able to kill the target/targets..
This means from a PVE standpoint classes are pigeon holed to have the right builds to heal and tank rather than play the mechanics of fights.
This also suggest that most fights in ESO are simplistic that barely have any fight mechanics as well, and simply require right builds which mostly involve being tanky enough and with enough heals. That also means their class system is terrible along with the lack of mechanics in fights or boss fights... and made it challenging by pigeon holing classes and make it impossible for other unplayable classes in certain situations to maintain the illusion they made a challenging game rather than a broken experience becuase they were too lazy to make fights engaging with interesting mechanics.
So anyone now complaining about a broken class is giving the devs the negative publicity they want about a challenging game, but there are no actual boss mechanics that are challenging for any class to be able to do them since some can do them while others cant.
For example by game mechanics they can make it so that certain actions become instant death for any class but they have to play the mechanics to finish the fight, and all the other actions of the boss fights as in basic attack does minimal dmg based on how they know certain classes with the lowest hp would be able to take those hits. Then Its not so much about hp/armor/heals and damage all in one, since that seems to be the class that can complete content solo to handle the basic attacks while others cant. There is little skill in boss fights to go toe to toe against basic attacks and win as the major fight structure, while others cant and claim they are good at the game becuase they simply have the right build.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
I feel your pain with the fighters guide quest it was a pita for me too.
Having now tried quite a few builds for each classes (alt aholic) what you want is flexability,
Currently (lvl 16) i am going with a heavy armour sorc. for questing.
1st lighting ability (Single target strike, big hit on low health mobs)
2nd lighting ability (8 sec pulsing aoe)
Puncture (1st sword and sheild ability , morphed to reduce magic resistance
Clanfear summon
Harpy summon
This have pretty good for most things (even tanking group dungeons).
But sometimes its better to be range so for my second spec i pull out a destroy staff, let pets tank while i agro kite. Great for some bosses and some skulls.
Comments
I started with a DK and if has been very underwhelming so far. I am still very low level without great gear. Could be that gear matters a lot to a DK.
I found the beginning of the game challenging as I had no real gear and a really poor weapon. It was quite the challenge and I enjoyed it. Now as I gather a bit better gear the game is getting considerably easier. It is still nice to see the solo part of the game isn't super easy for all classes.
me too man.
Likewise. I know my one hand + shield and heavy armor templar is apparently not the best build, but I enjoy it thoroughly.
You must not be following FFXIV. Coil T9 has yet to be beaten yet, been up for 3 weeks.
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this won't work endgame. might be fine for soloing but you won't be able to stun/snare bosses in veteran dungeons, adventure zones etc, and they'll probably kill you in two hits if you're not a tank. sure, the game is easy during the leveling process, but that will change.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
Nonsense. it's not the TYPICAL trinity style, which is fine by me. The tank doesn't have an AOE taunt that keeps everything locked on him for 30 seconds while the healer just spams single target heals on him. It's more challenging to tank, dps and heal in this game because of this. it's a welcome change.
Plus, my Imperial DK sword and board with Draconic power has hardly any self heals except for dragon blood, which isn't really that helpful when you've only got 200 magicka.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
Too bad it's not interesting enough or fun to play because you have zero customizability and variation between characters other than gear and player skill. That and farming myth by running a stupidly easy dungeon 100 times a week (and only killing the first two bosses) makes the coil challenge not worth it enough to play.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
I enjoyed Christina's article and concur that some of the fights can be challenging. A few of my buddies and my spouse found this particular fight very challenging and had to adjust tactics accordingly. My only gripe and perhaps I missed it but I spent about an hour trying to phase up with a friend to find out later it was solo. Should be more obviously stated but then again, I could have overlooked it.
To the posters claiming that the game is too easy and if you are having problems, you are " doing it wrong"..........I'm glad that you are finding it so easy and I'm glad you can burn down 20 mobs solo including bosses. Remember that not all players play at your level. Many folks do find encounters challenging judging from guild chat. People come in all shapes and sizes and that includes ability levels. Perhaps when they introduce the 12 person challenges, the more pro players can jump into these and show us your prowess by your ranking on the leader boards.
If both melee and ranged had a big issue with this fight, I'd agree with this article. But your friend blows through a fight with ease because this solo fight has a mechanic that's overly punishing to melee while makes it faceroll easy for a ranged?
This whole story actually sounds like it's a testiment to terrible game balance rather than glorifying a challenge.
Normally I play also as 2H templar dps + some resto skills. While sticking with 2H at level 8 Doshia was challenging really - mostly due to bubbles what I did was to switch for this one fight to fire destruction staff (I already had played with it a few moments so I could get wall aoe). Just this change caused fight (level 8, all items white) to be quite easy really. Still fun but totally different experience at the same time.
Well, that should be obvious.
If you want to play what you like then fine, go ahead, just dont complain when others choose a weapon and build combo based purely on power and have an easier time.
Lets be serious here, ESO is horribly balanced. MMOs with open free form skill systems always have this problem. So, look forward to a long and unending game of "Nerf Hammer Whack-A-Mole" when it comes to Fad of the Month builds because even if they do nerf the DK Fire staff/Resto staff build then some other combination of class plus weapon plus skills will rise to take its place.
This guy may know how to kill mobs, but he completely misses the point of a mmorpg.
Not trying to be mean here but i only dies in dungeons so far.... and i can solo the skull camps easily(the world boss types)
If you die your build is bad, with a decent build you just can`t die... it was the same in beta too.
The beta showcased more:
"You have the freedom..........to pick a worthless build, suck, and die a lot. Or you can just pick these other builds that will let you solo most everything easily"
sounds like more of the same..
Ofc the faceroll if you group ^^ it is faceroll if you are only 2 in group it is always faceroll in mmo if you are group dont matter if play WoW, SWTOR, LOTRO, Vandguard, AoC, VaH, The Secret World so to name few other mmo which is faceroll when are group up in but then again WoW is faceroll when solo playing that game ^^
The point i try to make is sit here say a mmo on pve side is faceroll when you are group is somewhat stupid for we all know that and it is even more faceroll when are 4 people in group.
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I died 3 times at level 12 and had a 900 gold repair build. Yeah that didn't sting at all :P What is an acceptable death penalty to you xp / level loss or corpse runs?
Must be hard for you, if the girls in your school always try to steal your pocket money. I can understand your fear.
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Hodor!
So what's stopping you from deleting your character when you die? Permadeath challenging enough for you?
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― CD PROJEKT RED
Ye, and then they go on forums....or even worse....write an ARTICLE about how challenging the game is. When the truth is its pretty faceroll.
If you want a challenge in other (similar) games just take off all your armor and have a go. Though noone will take you seriously (like this article) if you then go on forums and talk about "how challenging the game is"
Theres challenge in any game - if youre willing to take it (like running raids with as few people as possible, soloing on level dungeons, soloing world bosses/"elite" areas....) yeah, ive done all of that and its definately time consuming AND much much more challenging than your weekly "on farm" raid but ingame rewards in current games dont reward skill (GW2 is an exception here as you do get top of the line loot form soloing a dungeon, but, you do get a chance of top of the line loot for jumping puzzle also
and its actually much better than putting top of the line loot in "on farm" raids)
As a VR2 DK..
Let me offer some Advice for those doing a Stamina Build as a DK at the Start
Go 2 hander (your other weapon can be sword/shield for dungeons and tanking)
Get the first ability out of the two hander tree, Morph it in Brawler
Now work your way up the Earthen Heart Line and get the Molten Shield ability.
You're now able to solo pretty much most of the the world bosses, and most group dungeons with ease.
Both Absorb Shields Stack with one another, If you stack health they become even stronger..Both together was pretty much over Half my Life at pretty much all points of the game.
But yea... Very Easy to level this way.
You can start leveling with Sword/Shield when you get Deadly Bash Trait 2 of 2... This will make your interrupt ability (Shield Bash) do more damage then Auto Attack from 2 hander and duel wield, and you can Block while spamming it (it also interrupts)
Also some people are confused about Tanking in this game, All Classes can tank..There is no set Tank Class
if you're going to tank in a dungeon you really only need a few things
1 handed Shield, you want the first Skill morphed to Puncture Armor, and you want Defensive Posture.. That's pretty much all ya need from that line in terms of tanking..next you want capped Armor and as much spell resist as possible..how you get that is up to you..You can go Heavy Armor if you want the Block Cost reduction, but i've tanked every single boss with 5 Medium/2 Heavy just as easily.
Now all ya need to actually Tank is to hit the target with Puncture One time, Do not spam it..only reapply that ability when it runs out. It doesn't work like other games where it acts like a Taunt when ya hit..instead it constantly taunts the target while the debuff is up.
You basically want to Hold Down Block at this point and attack in between strikes from the boss while avoiding whatever mechanic it has.
That's Tanking in a nutshell for ya in this game.
By the sound of how people are talking about different classes being better than others to the point some content can not be completed, it makes me think the devs failed on this one.
Theres a difference with npc fights revolving around mechanics that involve dodge, micro managment of adds, avoiding aoe circles and other actual mechanics that are intuitive as well (not almost invisible buffs that mean a player is meant to understand they have a 'mechanic' to react to)... and then there barely being any mechanics (or not the reason for the deaths of players in their classes) and the fights are more about being able to kill the target/targets..
This means from a PVE standpoint classes are pigeon holed to have the right builds to heal and tank rather than play the mechanics of fights.
This also suggest that most fights in ESO are simplistic that barely have any fight mechanics as well, and simply require right builds which mostly involve being tanky enough and with enough heals. That also means their class system is terrible along with the lack of mechanics in fights or boss fights... and made it challenging by pigeon holing classes and make it impossible for other unplayable classes in certain situations to maintain the illusion they made a challenging game rather than a broken experience becuase they were too lazy to make fights engaging with interesting mechanics.
So anyone now complaining about a broken class is giving the devs the negative publicity they want about a challenging game, but there are no actual boss mechanics that are challenging for any class to be able to do them since some can do them while others cant.
For example by game mechanics they can make it so that certain actions become instant death for any class but they have to play the mechanics to finish the fight, and all the other actions of the boss fights as in basic attack does minimal dmg based on how they know certain classes with the lowest hp would be able to take those hits. Then Its not so much about hp/armor/heals and damage all in one, since that seems to be the class that can complete content solo to handle the basic attacks while others cant. There is little skill in boss fights to go toe to toe against basic attacks and win as the major fight structure, while others cant and claim they are good at the game becuase they simply have the right build.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
I feel your pain with the fighters guide quest it was a pita for me too.
Having now tried quite a few builds for each classes (alt aholic) what you want is flexability,
Currently (lvl 16) i am going with a heavy armour sorc. for questing.
1st lighting ability (Single target strike, big hit on low health mobs)
2nd lighting ability (8 sec pulsing aoe)
Puncture (1st sword and sheild ability , morphed to reduce magic resistance
Clanfear summon
Harpy summon
This have pretty good for most things (even tanking group dungeons).
But sometimes its better to be range so for my second spec i pull out a destroy staff, let pets tank while i agro kite. Great for some bosses and some skulls.