I actually have a solution to the op's question. The only way for quests to get better is to return them to the false namesake - Quests. "Quests" today are not quests. They're just any request or menial task an npc has been coded to asking a player to do for an often miniscule reward.
A quest is what Gandalf gave to Bilbo, and later Frodo. Those were quests. A quest shouldn't be able to be solved so easily by killing 10 mobs or pressing E in front of the fountain.
So in other words you really have no idea what the word really means.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I beg to differ on this. I think there are many other ways that quests can be done.
For example, there is a quest to destroy rat nests by using lightning bug pheromones. Basically, you run around and right click (or was it press 'e'?) on the nests.
I think it would be much more interesting if they had introduced a throwing mechanic. Something like lobbing grenades in FPSes (hold to throw further, angles, trajectory and all...) So you've gotta aim and hit the nests with the pheromone glands. The catch being that the bug that comes will aggro you after they have destroyed the nests and they are tough enough to absolutely wreck you. So you have to stay hidden while they do their thing. Additionally, the physical environment can also be designed such that some nests are impossible to hit while you are safely hidden. Since you've gotta do it out in the open, you'll have to run for safety after that while the bugs are distracted by the nests.
This throwing mechanic, together with sneaking and environmental features, can easily be used with quests where you have to distract npcs guarding doors. There are many other quest mechanics people can think of, but that would be for another thread. Actually, that might make for an interesting discussion!
Originally posted by Sephiroso The game has a handful of unique quests that were designed very well and actually are interesting to do. But its just that, a handful.
Originally posted by Vannor
Plus, as others have said, there are a few rare gems out there. The Tribunal quest in Mournhold was more interesting than your usual quests. The guild quests are quite varied as well.
Could you tell me more about these quests? You can PM me if you are afraid of revealing spoilers to other readers.
This is exactly why I can't play ESO... They've replaced the tedium of grinding mobs with the tedium of grinding quests... If they allowed both, I might actually play the game... I personally find questgrind to be intolerable
I actually have a solution to the op's question. The only way for quests to get better is to return them to the false namesake - Quests. "Quests" today are not quests. They're just any request or menial task an npc has been coded to asking a player to do for an often miniscule reward.
A quest is what Gandalf gave to Bilbo, and later Frodo. Those were quests. A quest shouldn't be able to be solved so easily by killing 10 mobs or pressing E in front of the fountain.
I beg to differ on this. I think there are many other ways that quests can be done.
For example, there is a quest to destroy rat nests by using lightning bug pheromones. Basically, you run around and right click (or was it press 'e'?) on the nests.
I think it would be much more interesting if they had introduced a throwing mechanic. Something like lobbing grenades in FPSes (hold to throw further, angles, trajectory and all...) So you've gotta aim and hit the nests with the pheromone glands. The catch being that the bug that comes will aggro you after they have destroyed the nests and they are tough enough to absolutely wreck you. So you have to stay hidden while they do their thing. Additionally, the physical environment can also be designed such that some nests are impossible to hit while you are safely hidden. Since you've gotta do it out in the open, you'll have to run for safety after that while the bugs are distracted by the nests.
This throwing mechanic, together with sneaking and environmental features, can easily be used with quests where you have to distract npcs guarding doors. There are many other quest mechanics people can think of, but that would be for another thread. Actually, that might make for an interesting discussion!
A throwing mechanic would require physics-based movements and projectiles.. These things are devoid in ESO. Combat is performed by static actors. When you pull an arrow back, aim, and fire at an enemy, what is actually happening is the enemy is auto-targeted by mousing over him, and the arrow is merely fired at your target by maths behind the curtain.. The arrow you see is merely a graphical representation, an effect, and has absolutely no bearing on whether or not your arrow hits.. You cannot dodge projectiles.
edit: although the desired result can be created with ground-targets and more fake projectiles... this may be satisfactory.. Personally, I think there's enough fake fluff in ESO
I actually have a solution to the op's question. The only way for quests to get better is to return them to the false namesake - Quests. "Quests" today are not quests. They're just any request or menial task an npc has been coded to asking a player to do for an often miniscule reward.
A quest is what Gandalf gave to Bilbo, and later Frodo. Those were quests. A quest shouldn't be able to be solved so easily by killing 10 mobs or pressing E in front of the fountain.
I thought that was a raid.
It was a quest that required a raid at certain parts yes. But a raid is merely a large group of people with a likeminded cause. That cause for the need to have a raid is what is known as a quest.
I actually have a solution to the op's question. The only way for quests to get better is to return them to the false namesake - Quests. "Quests" today are not quests. They're just any request or menial task an npc has been coded to asking a player to do for an often miniscule reward.
A quest is what Gandalf gave to Bilbo, and later Frodo. Those were quests. A quest shouldn't be able to be solved so easily by killing 10 mobs or pressing E in front of the fountain.
I thought that was a raid.
It was a quest that required a raid at certain parts yes. But a raid is merely a large group of people with a likeminded cause. That cause for the need to have a raid is what is known as a quest.
I beg to differ on this. I think there are many other ways that quests can be done.
For example, there is a quest to destroy rat nests by using lightning bug pheromones. Basically, you run around and right click (or was it press 'e'?) on the nests.
I think it would be much more interesting if they had introduced a throwing mechanic. Something like lobbing grenades in FPSes (hold to throw further, angles, trajectory and all...) So you've gotta aim and hit the nests with the pheromone glands. The catch being that the bug that comes will aggro you after they have destroyed the nests and they are tough enough to absolutely wreck you. So you have to stay hidden while they do their thing. Additionally, the physical environment can also be designed such that some nests are impossible to hit while you are safely hidden. Since you've gotta do it out in the open, you'll have to run for safety after that while the bugs are distracted by the nests.
This throwing mechanic, together with sneaking and environmental features, can easily be used with quests where you have to distract npcs guarding doors. There are many other quest mechanics people can think of, but that would be for another thread. Actually, that might make for an interesting discussion!
*Edit: Realised I had to be more clear about 1 and 2 to make it less all-encompassing. Edited to mean killing through conventional combat instead of using environment / special quest objects / etc)
Considering whether I should get this game. I participated in two weekend betas and got to level 12 on the AD faction. My questing experience was okay, but not spectacular. I think the type of quests I encountered can be summed up in the following types:
Kill a boss-type/named npc through combat
Kill some normal mobs through combat
Find and talk to an npc
Find and interact with objects (right click to destroy some spell wards / collect incriminating documents)
There were two quests which struck me in particular. One involved racing frogs and the other involved running a circuit in a given time limit. These provided some additional flavour. On the whole, however, questing got stale as I levelled and eventually I stopped and switched to pvp.
I've read that questing gets better at around level 15. How do the quests get better? (If someone knows of any good videos exemplifying this, I'd greatly appreciate a link)
Of course you are going to talk to an npc. Of course there is going to be combat and interacting with objects. "Somehow' you equated "better" with something else other than this.
They are "better" because they are more involved, the stories are have more to them, there are more npc interactions, more clever little bits added.
Like the quest where you have to rescue alcolytes from aetherius but there are these "grim reaper" charactres roaming the halls. You can't attack them but if you get too close they can pull you into aetherius and you have to find a stone to get back and then find the alcolytes. You either kill the alcolyte (to solve the problem as they are somehow being used as conduits) or you can enter aetherius by the alcolytes and battle the reapers in their realm where you can affect them.
In many ways they are no different than Elder Scrolls quests. Tell me that the Oblvion quest where you enter a ruin where there are these dark dwelling people of one of the daedric gods being converted by priests. if you put out the priest's light the dark dwelling people attack and kill the priests.
the starter quests seem a bit faster. Run here, collect some eggs, throw on rat's nests and watch them be electrified.
later you get quests where you are followed by what seems like a boy shade who doesn't want to be stuck in the ruin but his spectral father is trying to reanimate him there. You have the choice to allow the father to do this or let the shade go.
However, in a totally unrelated quest you actually meet the mother of the child who thought the child was just a shadow of his former self (and it was she who sealed the father and the shade in the ruin) and not realizing her child was a real ghost with all the feelings and memories of his former self. She now has to spend her time roaming the world trying to find him.
Or as I've mentioned, while on one of the quests you find love letters. and eventually you find the voice of the person who wrote those love letters but, because of reasons i won't mention, knew they couldn't be together unless they were made "equal". You then see the handiwork of what she did in order to try to "make them equal". It's a complete side quest in a quest but it's these little stories that make them "better".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Of course you are going to talk to an npc. Of course there is going to be combat and interacting with objects. "Somehow' you equated "better" with something else other than this.
Yea, on hindsight, perhaps 'better' wasn't the best word to use. Maybe 'variety' or 'varied' would have been more appropriate.
I can see how the quests are supported with well-developed contexts. To me, the lore/story tells me 'what' I'm doing. The part where I find more monotony is 'how' I am doing it. I don't mean to throw the conventional mechanics out of the window, but it would be nice to see other approaches as well.
I hate to bring up WoW, but I haven't played that many mmos and it is something I'm more familiar with. You could enter vehicles and fight with them, go on a bombing run in a plane, control robots remotely ... they are all combat type quests and are still limited to the hotkeys / point-and-click targetting system, but they changed the player's approach to combat. They changed the gameplay, for better or worse, and brought about variety to the questing experience.
P.S: I'm not saying ESO should copy these quests. lol
*Edit: Realised I had to be more clear about 1 and 2 to make it less all-encompassing. Edited to mean killing through conventional combat instead of using environment / special quest objects / etc)
Considering whether I should get this game. I participated in two weekend betas and got to level 12 on the AD faction. My questing experience was okay, but not spectacular. I think the type of quests I encountered can be summed up in the following types:
Kill a boss-type/named npc through combat
Kill some normal mobs through combat
Find and talk to an npc
Find and interact with objects (right click to destroy some spell wards / collect incriminating documents)
There were two quests which struck me in particular. One involved racing frogs and the other involved running a circuit in a given time limit. These provided some additional flavour. On the whole, however, questing got stale as I levelled and eventually I stopped and switched to pvp.
I've read that questing gets better at around level 15. How do the quests get better? (If someone knows of any good videos exemplifying this, I'd greatly appreciate a link)
Storyline & immersion. If those aren't important to you, you won't like the game.
In terms of quests, personally I enjoy them (not sure how Skyrim was any better really).
The quests are decent but the difference between ESO and Skyrim or between TOR and KOTOR in terms of story is the fact that in MMO, decisions dont have consequences, especially no major ones. Since youre in a persistent world shared with other players, you cant change the world in any meaningful way. Every player has to have the same options. Thats why i always feel the story in mmos lacking... sure, they try to make you feel like youre changing or deciding something, usually in instances separate from other players but still.. its weird but even the simple feeling that what im doing right now will be done by thousands of other players as well makes it feel more insignificant for me.
In terms of quests, personally I enjoy them (not sure how Skyrim was any better really).
The quests are decent but the difference between ESO and Skyrim or between TOR and KOTOR in terms of story is the fact that in MMO, decisions dont have consequences, especially no major ones. Since youre in a persistent world shared with other players, you cant change the world in any meaningful way. Every player has to have the same options. Thats why i always feel the story in mmos lacking... sure, they try to make you feel like youre changing or deciding something, usually in instances separate from other players but still.. its weird but even the simple feeling that what im doing right now will be done by thousands of other players as well makes it feel more insignificant for me.
There's a quest where you either save a town or a fort and I felt much the same - "meh, I'll be in the destroyed town instance".
But, where I feel things 'work' is the small decisions:
- do you let someone die who has done terrible things? or do you save them and hope they change?
- do you encourage someone to leave home and explore? or stay and do their duty?
- do you let someone die to save another?
- given the opportunity to change someone's history, do you do your duty or attempt to change a terrible event?
I don't know if my answers have changed anything beyond those quests, but I liked being forced to make those choices and 'live with the consequences'. (there's probably already a DB with answers/consequences - which is a shame).
But I do get your point, not sure if there's any real way to let a 1000 players each make a big decision though.
Originally posted by LisaFlexy22 If you're a person who just clicks through quest text to get to the objective as fast as possible - I would question what mmo, if any, would provide you an interested questing experience? Even The Secret World, which is usually referred to as having the best mmo questing, at it's base (minus the investigation missions) is the same tasks as any other mmo (talk to someone, interact with something, kill something) - but it's the presentation that makes the difference. TSW and ESO both do excellent jobs creating interesting characters and stories and excel at presentation.
Exactly. I agree completely. It's the presentation combined with easy immersion that makes it different. Much different.. *IF* you can be bothered to experience it rather than just click through to get your objective. That's what makes it "the same ol'" people.. If you just click through everything, how exactly can you expect things to be "different"?
"If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you have pudding if you don't eat your meat?!"
.. Yeah.. I dunno why that came out either.. But I'm leaving it.
Anyway, wish I was playing. Best I can do atm is grab some free time to eyeroll at the misinformation (often combined with blatant ignorance) on these forums.
I dont know if people have seen the Stibbons and noble treasure hunter questlines but they're pretty amusing.
I didnt remember any characters in this game at first but those two and Nicolene/Kaleen are recurring characters on the daggerfall covenant and are starting to grow on me. The Harpy gang though... ugh.
In terms of quests, personally I enjoy them (not sure how Skyrim was any better really).
The quests are decent but the difference between ESO and Skyrim or between TOR and KOTOR in terms of story is the fact that in MMO, decisions dont have consequences, especially no major ones. Since youre in a persistent world shared with other players, you cant change the world in any meaningful way. Every player has to have the same options. Thats why i always feel the story in mmos lacking... sure, they try to make you feel like youre changing or deciding something, usually in instances separate from other players but still.. its weird but even the simple feeling that what im doing right now will be done by thousands of other players as well makes it feel more insignificant for me.
Well,ESO actually does, very explicitly, make it appear as if your actions have consequences. If I make a choice I get dialog from NPCs that reflects that choice ("You're the terrible man who let that woman kill the doctor in village X"). If I purify a shrine the ghosts in the graveyard become passive (to me) and the lighting changes. This is actually one of the strongest points in the game for me; in what way could it be more significant in a MMO?
In terms of quests, personally I enjoy them (not sure how Skyrim was any better really).
The quests are decent but the difference between ESO and Skyrim or between TOR and KOTOR in terms of story is the fact that in MMO, decisions dont have consequences, especially no major ones. Since youre in a persistent world shared with other players, you cant change the world in any meaningful way. Every player has to have the same options. Thats why i always feel the story in mmos lacking... sure, they try to make you feel like youre changing or deciding something, usually in instances separate from other players but still.. its weird but even the simple feeling that what im doing right now will be done by thousands of other players as well makes it feel more insignificant for me.
Well,ESO actually does, very explicitly, make it appear as if your actions have consequences. If I make a choice I get dialog from NPCs that reflects that choice ("You're the terrible man who let that woman kill the doctor in village X"). If I purify a shrine the ghosts in the graveyard become passive (to me) and the lighting changes. This is actually one of the strongest points in the game for me; in what way could it be more significant in a MMO?
Yeah... even at level 15 I was liberating entire villages and areas in Auridon, not to mention the craziness of Grahtwood. Take the red pill (frog).
Comments
So in other words you really have no idea what the word really means.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I beg to differ on this. I think there are many other ways that quests can be done.
For example, there is a quest to destroy rat nests by using lightning bug pheromones. Basically, you run around and right click (or was it press 'e'?) on the nests.
I think it would be much more interesting if they had introduced a throwing mechanic. Something like lobbing grenades in FPSes (hold to throw further, angles, trajectory and all...) So you've gotta aim and hit the nests with the pheromone glands. The catch being that the bug that comes will aggro you after they have destroyed the nests and they are tough enough to absolutely wreck you. So you have to stay hidden while they do their thing. Additionally, the physical environment can also be designed such that some nests are impossible to hit while you are safely hidden. Since you've gotta do it out in the open, you'll have to run for safety after that while the bugs are distracted by the nests.
This throwing mechanic, together with sneaking and environmental features, can easily be used with quests where you have to distract npcs guarding doors. There are many other quest mechanics people can think of, but that would be for another thread. Actually, that might make for an interesting discussion!
Could you tell me more about these quests? You can PM me if you are afraid of revealing spoilers to other readers.
I thought that was a raid.
A throwing mechanic would require physics-based movements and projectiles.. These things are devoid in ESO. Combat is performed by static actors. When you pull an arrow back, aim, and fire at an enemy, what is actually happening is the enemy is auto-targeted by mousing over him, and the arrow is merely fired at your target by maths behind the curtain.. The arrow you see is merely a graphical representation, an effect, and has absolutely no bearing on whether or not your arrow hits.. You cannot dodge projectiles.
edit: although the desired result can be created with ground-targets and more fake projectiles... this may be satisfactory.. Personally, I think there's enough fake fluff in ESO
It was a quest that required a raid at certain parts yes. But a raid is merely a large group of people with a likeminded cause. That cause for the need to have a raid is what is known as a quest.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Bit of AvA too
This kids is the definition of IRONY!
Of course you are going to talk to an npc. Of course there is going to be combat and interacting with objects. "Somehow' you equated "better" with something else other than this.
They are "better" because they are more involved, the stories are have more to them, there are more npc interactions, more clever little bits added.
Like the quest where you have to rescue alcolytes from aetherius but there are these "grim reaper" charactres roaming the halls. You can't attack them but if you get too close they can pull you into aetherius and you have to find a stone to get back and then find the alcolytes. You either kill the alcolyte (to solve the problem as they are somehow being used as conduits) or you can enter aetherius by the alcolytes and battle the reapers in their realm where you can affect them.
In many ways they are no different than Elder Scrolls quests. Tell me that the Oblvion quest where you enter a ruin where there are these dark dwelling people of one of the daedric gods being converted by priests. if you put out the priest's light the dark dwelling people attack and kill the priests.
the starter quests seem a bit faster. Run here, collect some eggs, throw on rat's nests and watch them be electrified.
later you get quests where you are followed by what seems like a boy shade who doesn't want to be stuck in the ruin but his spectral father is trying to reanimate him there. You have the choice to allow the father to do this or let the shade go.
However, in a totally unrelated quest you actually meet the mother of the child who thought the child was just a shadow of his former self (and it was she who sealed the father and the shade in the ruin) and not realizing her child was a real ghost with all the feelings and memories of his former self. She now has to spend her time roaming the world trying to find him.
Or as I've mentioned, while on one of the quests you find love letters. and eventually you find the voice of the person who wrote those love letters but, because of reasons i won't mention, knew they couldn't be together unless they were made "equal". You then see the handiwork of what she did in order to try to "make them equal". It's a complete side quest in a quest but it's these little stories that make them "better".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yea, on hindsight, perhaps 'better' wasn't the best word to use. Maybe 'variety' or 'varied' would have been more appropriate.
I can see how the quests are supported with well-developed contexts. To me, the lore/story tells me 'what' I'm doing. The part where I find more monotony is 'how' I am doing it. I don't mean to throw the conventional mechanics out of the window, but it would be nice to see other approaches as well.
I hate to bring up WoW, but I haven't played that many mmos and it is something I'm more familiar with. You could enter vehicles and fight with them, go on a bombing run in a plane, control robots remotely ... they are all combat type quests and are still limited to the hotkeys / point-and-click targetting system, but they changed the player's approach to combat. They changed the gameplay, for better or worse, and brought about variety to the questing experience.
P.S: I'm not saying ESO should copy these quests. lol
Storyline & immersion. If those aren't important to you, you won't like the game.
In terms of story-telling, ESO is probably the best I've seen in an MMO.
In SWTOR:
- look for Jimmy for his dying mother.
- find the rebel scum who had kidnapped Jimmy.
- decide whether to [let the rebel go] or [torture them both to death].
In ESO:
- look for Jimmy for his dying mother.
- find (and subsequently kill) a werewolf.
- return to his mother and decide whether to tell her the truth about Jimmy's fate.
(there are few black/white good/bad answers)
In terms of quests, personally I enjoy them (not sure how Skyrim was any better really).
The quests are decent but the difference between ESO and Skyrim or between TOR and KOTOR in terms of story is the fact that in MMO, decisions dont have consequences, especially no major ones. Since youre in a persistent world shared with other players, you cant change the world in any meaningful way. Every player has to have the same options. Thats why i always feel the story in mmos lacking... sure, they try to make you feel like youre changing or deciding something, usually in instances separate from other players but still.. its weird but even the simple feeling that what im doing right now will be done by thousands of other players as well makes it feel more insignificant for me.
There's a quest where you either save a town or a fort and I felt much the same - "meh, I'll be in the destroyed town instance".
But, where I feel things 'work' is the small decisions:
- do you let someone die who has done terrible things? or do you save them and hope they change?
- do you encourage someone to leave home and explore? or stay and do their duty?
- do you let someone die to save another?
- given the opportunity to change someone's history, do you do your duty or attempt to change a terrible event?
I don't know if my answers have changed anything beyond those quests, but I liked being forced to make those choices and 'live with the consequences'. (there's probably already a DB with answers/consequences - which is a shame).
But I do get your point, not sure if there's any real way to let a 1000 players each make a big decision though.
Exactly. I agree completely. It's the presentation combined with easy immersion that makes it different. Much different.. *IF* you can be bothered to experience it rather than just click through to get your objective. That's what makes it "the same ol'" people.. If you just click through everything, how exactly can you expect things to be "different"?
"If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you have pudding if you don't eat your meat?!"
.. Yeah.. I dunno why that came out either.. But I'm leaving it.
Anyway, wish I was playing. Best I can do atm is grab some free time to eyeroll at the misinformation (often combined with blatant ignorance) on these forums.
I dont know if people have seen the Stibbons and noble treasure hunter questlines but they're pretty amusing.
I didnt remember any characters in this game at first but those two and Nicolene/Kaleen are recurring characters on the daggerfall covenant and are starting to grow on me. The Harpy gang though... ugh.
Well,ESO actually does, very explicitly, make it appear as if your actions have consequences. If I make a choice I get dialog from NPCs that reflects that choice ("You're the terrible man who let that woman kill the doctor in village X"). If I purify a shrine the ghosts in the graveyard become passive (to me) and the lighting changes. This is actually one of the strongest points in the game for me; in what way could it be more significant in a MMO?
Yeah... even at level 15 I was liberating entire villages and areas in Auridon, not to mention the craziness of Grahtwood. Take the red pill (frog).
You just described almost every RPG in the history of RPGs. Games like Mass Effect, Skyrim and Dragon Age can all fit in those categories.