Originally posted by maskedweasel I think it has the potential to grab the market majority, but not because its an overall great game, but because it is going to have the console launches behind it as well which will open the market up to other potential players. I mean we only see a great amount of players in ESO on the PC version, but we won't see what the consoles bring in either, and usually console versions of games outsellf PC games and even on MMOs they outpopulate PC MMOs. That being said, it only stands to reason that if we see a strong PC population you can be just as sure that we'll see as large of if not larger of a console market.
What real MMO has outsold its PC equivalent? Final Fantasy is the only game that comes to mind because the Final Fantasy community is on the console more.
FFXI, DCUO, Free Realms, Phantasy Star Univers, and I'd stand to bet PlanetSide too.
Whatever sales figures they throw out now are only meaningful to the investors. The ones that matter are the ones that come out 6 months from now. I know quite a few people who pre-ordered this game and have been pretty disappointed (for various reasons) with what they got. Many of those people will be counted in the trumpting about initial sales and subscriptions, but will fall off by the 6 month point. The "power gamers" will also likely fall off by then, as they'll have chewed up and digested what they can from the game and moved on to the next shiny.
For myself, I was happy to be in the beta, as it showed me the core feel of the game isn't something I wanted to pay a subscription to continue playing. YMMV.
I'd look to see whether Bethesda/ZO makes any "quick" press releases about breaking records or the like. Companies are usually quick to report good news, and slow to report bad.
One thing I note is that looking at XFire's stats, the game is currently ranking 16th in gameplay, one under SWTOR. If I recall, when SWTOR launched, it was in the middle of the top ten. WoW is currently at 5, GW2 at 9, and Minecraft at 10. Now, one can only take XFire stat's so far, as it suffers from "self-selection bias", but for a new release, this seems low for ESO.
Initial sales numbers don't tell the whole story. I would wait 1-2 months for the numbers to settle down. I wish the game to succeed, but I am not holding my breath. I will play as long as I am having fun.
Originally posted by maskedweasel I think it has the potential to grab the market majority, but not because its an overall great game, but because it is going to have the console launches behind it as well which will open the market up to other potential players. I mean we only see a great amount of players in ESO on the PC version, but we won't see what the consoles bring in either, and usually console versions of games outsellf PC games and even on MMOs they outpopulate PC MMOs. That being said, it only stands to reason that if we see a strong PC population you can be just as sure that we'll see as large of if not larger of a console market.
What real MMO has outsold its PC equivalent? Final Fantasy is the only game that comes to mind because the Final Fantasy community is on the console more.
FFXI, DCUO, Free Realms, Phantasy Star Univers, and I'd stand to bet PlanetSide too.
Never heard of Free Realms but the rest were all made for the console...Its not like other games where its an MMO and the console version was an after thought.
Originally posted by maskedweasel I think it has the potential to grab the market majority, but not because its an overall great game, but because it is going to have the console launches behind it as well which will open the market up to other potential players. I mean we only see a great amount of players in ESO on the PC version, but we won't see what the consoles bring in either, and usually console versions of games outsellf PC games and even on MMOs they outpopulate PC MMOs. That being said, it only stands to reason that if we see a strong PC population you can be just as sure that we'll see as large of if not larger of a console market.
What real MMO has outsold its PC equivalent? Final Fantasy is the only game that comes to mind because the Final Fantasy community is on the console more.
FFXI, DCUO, Free Realms, Phantasy Star Univers, and I'd stand to bet PlanetSide too.
Never heard of Free Realms but the rest were all made for the console...Its not like other games where its an MMO and the console version was an after thought.
Did i read correctly in that you think FFXI was made for the console and -then- transitioned to PC?
Originally posted by maskedweasel I think it has the potential to grab the market majority, but not because its an overall great game, but because it is going to have the console launches behind it as well which will open the market up to other potential players. I mean we only see a great amount of players in ESO on the PC version, but we won't see what the consoles bring in either, and usually console versions of games outsellf PC games and even on MMOs they outpopulate PC MMOs. That being said, it only stands to reason that if we see a strong PC population you can be just as sure that we'll see as large of if not larger of a console market.
What real MMO has outsold its PC equivalent? Final Fantasy is the only game that comes to mind because the Final Fantasy community is on the console more.
FFXI, DCUO, Free Realms, Phantasy Star Univers, and I'd stand to bet PlanetSide too.
Never heard of Free Realms but the rest were all made for the console...Its not like other games where its an MMO and the console version was an after thought.
Did i read correctly in that you think FFXI was made for the console and -then- transitioned to PC?
Yes it did FF11 was made for PS2 in May of 2002. PC November 2002. Also I just meant that they rolled out together but in FF11 case console was first.
Best AAA game on the market is it. You guys need to stop with the WoW like sub numbers. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. TESO isn t , IMO, even close to the quality of game as WoW was or is. Now you see how I said IMO.
While I agree that WoW numbers won't happen again I do have to disagree on one point. WoW had a horrible launch, and even with all the issues causing server downtime TESO has already had more server uptime since early access than WoW did their first month.
Originally posted by GuyClinch Zenimax is privately held.. BTW. ..So they aren't under any pressure to release numbers to appease investors.
They still need to release something though, to garner confidence amongst customers. It's a good thing the company isn't public though, because all anyone would have to go on is the January Forbes report predicting it's demise in the face of a $200 million pricetag.
Anyways, OP, between the 3 platforms, the showing will be alright, but I doubt it will grab the "majority" amongst MMO's, or even close to that. Many will try it out though. A snowball effect would involve long term commitment which I don't foresee. Maybe if they made it more sandbox and dynamic? /shrug
Originally posted by maskedweasel I think it has the potential to grab the market majority, but not because its an overall great game, but because it is going to have the console launches behind it as well which will open the market up to other potential players. I mean we only see a great amount of players in ESO on the PC version, but we won't see what the consoles bring in either, and usually console versions of games outsellf PC games and even on MMOs they outpopulate PC MMOs. That being said, it only stands to reason that if we see a strong PC population you can be just as sure that we'll see as large of if not larger of a console market.
What real MMO has outsold its PC equivalent? Final Fantasy is the only game that comes to mind because the Final Fantasy community is on the console more.
FFXI, DCUO, Free Realms, Phantasy Star Univers, and I'd stand to bet PlanetSide too.
Never heard of Free Realms but the rest were all made for the console...Its not like other games where its an MMO and the console version was an after thought.
Did i read correctly in that you think FFXI was made for the console and -then- transitioned to PC?
Yes it did FF11 was made for PS2 in May of 2002. PC November 2002. Also I just meant that they rolled out together but in FF11 case console was first.
I also said not Final Fantasy in the first place.
ESO was also made for the console. So was Skyrim. Most of TES games were made with consoles in mind. The rest of the games I mentioned were also created and planned for the console. The only game I know of that was planned for the console where the actual UI and gameplay felt very consolish but didn't really make it was Champions Online. Maybe Star Trek was too... but I can't remember now.. and didn't play Star Trek.
Originally posted by maskedweasel I think it has the potential to grab the market majority, but not because its an overall great game, but because it is going to have the console launches behind it as well which will open the market up to other potential players. I mean we only see a great amount of players in ESO on the PC version, but we won't see what the consoles bring in either, and usually console versions of games outsellf PC games and even on MMOs they outpopulate PC MMOs. That being said, it only stands to reason that if we see a strong PC population you can be just as sure that we'll see as large of if not larger of a console market.
What real MMO has outsold its PC equivalent? Final Fantasy is the only game that comes to mind because the Final Fantasy community is on the console more.
FFXI, DCUO, Free Realms, Phantasy Star Univers, and I'd stand to bet PlanetSide too.
Never heard of Free Realms but the rest were all made for the console...Its not like other games where its an MMO and the console version was an after thought.
Did i read correctly in that you think FFXI was made for the console and -then- transitioned to PC?
Yes it did FF11 was made for PS2 in May of 2002. PC November 2002. Also I just meant that they rolled out together but in FF11 case console was first.
I also said not Final Fantasy in the first place.
That whole ps2 release first thing apparently was only in Japan. It released on PC first here in the states.
Whoever cougan is should try reading my posts lol. I may even buy the game once it stabilises and i have only 1 account on this site. Looking at his post history seems he makes the same excuse for anyone who has doubts about the game ha ha ha....the desperate action of an eso defender because he cant refute the actual details surrounding the actual launch lolz
Look for a huge explosion of sales is GW2 when their 'chinese' release is ready. WoW love is pretty low in the US/EU markets anecdotally from what I can tell. Everyone I have run into is someone who 'used to' play WoW. YMMV.
I'm not even sure why we compare ESO to WoW, when in reality we should probably be comparing it to GW2. There's far more to really compare there be it with AvA vs. WvW, PvE, or general exploration-focused leveling, and what have you. The Craglorn release is perfectly in-line with how GW2 released Halloween+Fractals+Lost Shores.
Is Craglorn + AvA + 15$/mo = Fractals + WvW + 0$/mo?
Ultimately ESO is going to have to compete with GW2 for shares and particularly in the not-free vs. free to play game value comparison with both having a box fee, and both having a cash store. Most MMOs that release are going to have to fight GW2 more than WoW. WoW is entrenched. Same will apply to Wildstar.
I like GW2 - but its more of an ultra-casual chilled MMO. You can grind but you don't need to. You could play a lot - but you can finish it pretty quickly. There is no Holy Trinity. There are no DPS counters. No one knows how good or bad your character is - and for the most part no one cares. its like an MMO light. And its free after you buy the game. Its nice.
But ESO..
It's made by a AAA big time gaming company who have made some of the best games in the last ten years.
It's a Holy Trinity based game.
It's competitive - it has trials and leaderboards.
It will have raiding.
It's much closer to WoW in most design aspects. That new agey 'do want you want no one cares' feel is going to be totally missing from ESO - like when your tank can't hold agro well enough or absorb hits well enough.
If you want to believe that WoW holds some magical can't be stopped kind of advantage - that's all well and good. And everyone will think you are right - till you are wrong. And by then the "WoW" can't be stopped legion will quietly disappear.
Gamers are not stupid. If they feel a game is superior they will move to it - even if it happens slowly via word of mouth.
You are welcome to disagree but this is the first solid competitor WoW has ever had. SWTOR thought all the had to do was apply a coat of paint to the WoW mechanics and some cut scenes and they would be rich. ESO knows better and has done better.
You are welcome to disagree but this is the first solid competitor WoW has ever had. SWTOR thought all the had to do was apply a coat of paint to the WoW mechanics and some cut scenes and they would be rich. ESO knows better and has done better.
It's so funny, i was nodding to myself at your post till i got to the above. Did somebody murder you and took over and started writing their own opinions at the end there?
Edit: I just had to add more cause of that last sentence. ESO knows better....ESO knows better that they accidentally charged full subscription fee to authorize a bank account.
ESO knows better when they designed dungeons with a kick feature that kicks the person from the party....but not from the instance and effectively made it impossible to get a new adventurer to join the previous group unless the person who was kicked from the party leaves of their own will.
ESO knows better..when they designed it so chests inside dungeons are looted by the person who opened them and only that person. Screw need/greed rules or personal loot. Lol...
Look for a huge explosion of sales is GW2 when their 'chinese' release is ready. WoW love is pretty low in the US/EU markets anecdotally from what I can tell. Everyone I have run into is someone who 'used to' play WoW. YMMV.
I'm not even sure why we compare ESO to WoW, when in reality we should probably be comparing it to GW2. There's far more to really compare there be it with AvA vs. WvW, PvE, or general exploration-focused leveling, and what have you. The Craglorn release is perfectly in-line with how GW2 released Halloween+Fractals+Lost Shores.
Is Craglorn + AvA + 15$/mo = Fractals + WvW + 0$/mo?
Ultimately ESO is going to have to compete with GW2 for shares and particularly in the not-free vs. free to play game value comparison with both having a box fee, and both having a cash store. Most MMOs that release are going to have to fight GW2 more than WoW. WoW is entrenched. Same will apply to Wildstar.
I like GW2 - but its more of an ultra-casual chilled MMO. You can grind but you don't need to. You could play a lot - but you can finish it pretty quickly. There is no Holy Trinity. There are no DPS counters. No one knows how good or bad your character is - and for the most part no one cares. its like an MMO light. And its free after you buy the game. Its nice.
But ESO..
It's made by a AAA big time gaming company who have made some of the best games in the last ten years.
It's a Holy Trinity based game.
It's competitive - it has trials and leaderboards.
It will have raiding.
It's much closer to WoW in most design aspects. That new agey 'do want you want no one cares' feel is going to be totally missing from ESO - like when your tank can't hold agro well enough or absorb hits well enough.
If you want to believe that WoW holds some magical can't be stopped kind of advantage - that's all well and good. And everyone will think you are right - till you are wrong. And by then the "WoW" can't be stopped legion will quietly disappear.
Gamers are not stupid. If they feel a game is superior they will move to it - even if it happens slowly via word of mouth.
You are welcome to disagree but this is the first solid competitor WoW has ever had. SWTOR thought all the had to do was apply a coat of paint to the WoW mechanics and some cut scenes and they would be rich. ESO knows better and has done better.
The beta only hit 5 million people that signed up, not actually entered the game...Even if every single one of them joined it still wouldnt kill WoW...End conversation.
It's not much of a conversation. WoW has been out for over a decade, this game released just a few days ago. I'm not sure you can compare numbers in that sort of way. I'm a huge WoW fan, but I'm realistic.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Originally posted by GuyClinch Zenimax is privately held.. BTW. ..So they aren't under any pressure to release numbers to appease investors.
agree
Turbine LOTRO and Trion RIFT never gave sub retention #s
both were/are privately held
You do realize they didn't -not- give sub numbers because they were privately held, but because the numbers were laughably bad right?
Common sense says, you release the numbers whether you're publicly open or not, if the numbers paint your game in a good light.
Giving out sub numbers buys you nothing but headaches which is why very few companies do it in any meaninful manner anymore. Even EVE doesn't do it anymore and it's also why one of the long running MMO sub numbers web sites closed down. You won't earn acclaim for giving out numbers only criticism.
Originally posted by GuyClinch Zenimax is privately held.. BTW. ..So they aren't under any pressure to release numbers to appease investors.
agree
Turbine LOTRO and Trion RIFT never gave sub retention #s
both were/are privately held
You do realize they didn't -not- give sub numbers because they were privately held, but because the numbers were laughably bad right?
Common sense says, you release the numbers whether you're publicly open or not, if the numbers paint your game in a good light.
Giving out sub numbers buys you nothing but headaches which is why very few companies do it in any meaninful manner anymore. Even EVE doesn't do it anymore and it's also why one of the long running MMO sub numbers web sites closed down. You won't earn acclaim for giving out numbers only criticism.
Pretty much this. The only one that really publicly discloses the numbers any more is Blizzard, and that's because they have investors haranguing them constantly.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Comments
FFXI, DCUO, Free Realms, Phantasy Star Univers, and I'd stand to bet PlanetSide too.
Whatever sales figures they throw out now are only meaningful to the investors. The ones that matter are the ones that come out 6 months from now. I know quite a few people who pre-ordered this game and have been pretty disappointed (for various reasons) with what they got. Many of those people will be counted in the trumpting about initial sales and subscriptions, but will fall off by the 6 month point. The "power gamers" will also likely fall off by then, as they'll have chewed up and digested what they can from the game and moved on to the next shiny.
For myself, I was happy to be in the beta, as it showed me the core feel of the game isn't something I wanted to pay a subscription to continue playing. YMMV.
I'd look to see whether Bethesda/ZO makes any "quick" press releases about breaking records or the like. Companies are usually quick to report good news, and slow to report bad.
One thing I note is that looking at XFire's stats, the game is currently ranking 16th in gameplay, one under SWTOR. If I recall, when SWTOR launched, it was in the middle of the top ten. WoW is currently at 5, GW2 at 9, and Minecraft at 10. Now, one can only take XFire stat's so far, as it suffers from "self-selection bias", but for a new release, this seems low for ESO.
Never heard of Free Realms but the rest were all made for the console...Its not like other games where its an MMO and the console version was an after thought.
Did i read correctly in that you think FFXI was made for the console and -then- transitioned to PC?
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Yes it did FF11 was made for PS2 in May of 2002. PC November 2002. Also I just meant that they rolled out together but in FF11 case console was first.
I also said not Final Fantasy in the first place.
While I agree that WoW numbers won't happen again I do have to disagree on one point. WoW had a horrible launch, and even with all the issues causing server downtime TESO has already had more server uptime since early access than WoW did their first month.
They still need to release something though, to garner confidence amongst customers. It's a good thing the company isn't public though, because all anyone would have to go on is the January Forbes report predicting it's demise in the face of a $200 million pricetag.
Anyways, OP, between the 3 platforms, the showing will be alright, but I doubt it will grab the "majority" amongst MMO's, or even close to that. Many will try it out though. A snowball effect would involve long term commitment which I don't foresee. Maybe if they made it more sandbox and dynamic? /shrug
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
ESO was also made for the console. So was Skyrim. Most of TES games were made with consoles in mind. The rest of the games I mentioned were also created and planned for the console. The only game I know of that was planned for the console where the actual UI and gameplay felt very consolish but didn't really make it was Champions Online. Maybe Star Trek was too... but I can't remember now.. and didn't play Star Trek.
That whole ps2 release first thing apparently was only in Japan. It released on PC first here in the states.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
I like GW2 - but its more of an ultra-casual chilled MMO. You can grind but you don't need to. You could play a lot - but you can finish it pretty quickly. There is no Holy Trinity. There are no DPS counters. No one knows how good or bad your character is - and for the most part no one cares. its like an MMO light. And its free after you buy the game. Its nice.
But ESO..
It's made by a AAA big time gaming company who have made some of the best games in the last ten years.
It's a Holy Trinity based game.
It's competitive - it has trials and leaderboards.
It will have raiding.
It's much closer to WoW in most design aspects. That new agey 'do want you want no one cares' feel is going to be totally missing from ESO - like when your tank can't hold agro well enough or absorb hits well enough.
If you want to believe that WoW holds some magical can't be stopped kind of advantage - that's all well and good. And everyone will think you are right - till you are wrong. And by then the "WoW" can't be stopped legion will quietly disappear.
Gamers are not stupid. If they feel a game is superior they will move to it - even if it happens slowly via word of mouth.
You are welcome to disagree but this is the first solid competitor WoW has ever had. SWTOR thought all the had to do was apply a coat of paint to the WoW mechanics and some cut scenes and they would be rich. ESO knows better and has done better.
It's so funny, i was nodding to myself at your post till i got to the above. Did somebody murder you and took over and started writing their own opinions at the end there?
Edit: I just had to add more cause of that last sentence. ESO knows better....ESO knows better that they accidentally charged full subscription fee to authorize a bank account.
ESO knows better when they designed dungeons with a kick feature that kicks the person from the party....but not from the instance and effectively made it impossible to get a new adventurer to join the previous group unless the person who was kicked from the party leaves of their own will.
ESO knows better..when they designed it so chests inside dungeons are looted by the person who opened them and only that person. Screw need/greed rules or personal loot. Lol...
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
The beta only hit 5 million people that signed up, not actually entered the game...Even if every single one of them joined it still wouldnt kill WoW...End conversation.
agree
Turbine LOTRO and Trion RIFT never gave sub retention #s
both were/are privately held
EQ2 fan sites
You do realize they didn't -not- give sub numbers because they were privately held, but because the numbers were laughably bad right?
Common sense says, you release the numbers whether you're publicly open or not, if the numbers paint your game in a good light.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
It's not much of a conversation. WoW has been out for over a decade, this game released just a few days ago. I'm not sure you can compare numbers in that sort of way. I'm a huge WoW fan, but I'm realistic.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Link please.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I'm expecting Zenimax to release numbers in a way to show the best light
--- number of copies sold
EQ2 fan sites
Giving out sub numbers buys you nothing but headaches which is why very few companies do it in any meaninful manner anymore. Even EVE doesn't do it anymore and it's also why one of the long running MMO sub numbers web sites closed down. You won't earn acclaim for giving out numbers only criticism.
My gaming blog
Pretty much this. The only one that really publicly discloses the numbers any more is Blizzard, and that's because they have investors haranguing them constantly.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.