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The youtube vid that explains how it all got wrong

CaldicotCaldicot StockholmPosts: 432Member Uncommon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvK8fua6O64

Whether or not you agree with this guy, it's a must see.

If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan

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Comments

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caldicot

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvK8fua6O64

    Whether or not you agree with this guy, it's a must see.

    So, before I potentially waste time out of my life,

    What "all got wrong"?

  • GormogonGormogon Waukegan, ILPosts: 188Member Uncommon


    TL;DW "WoW ruined MMOs."

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gormogon


    TL;DW "WoW ruined MMOs."

    That's what I figured it was about. I've no need to rehash that discussion in a youtube video.

  • vanderghastvanderghast cresco, IAPosts: 222Member Uncommon

    To sum up the video:

    Just another sandbox whiner claiming wow ruined everything.

     

    While wow sure dumbed down the genre, games like SWG weren't anything special either as they had no content and no point.  Would it be so hard for someone to make a sandbox themepark that had quests etc and also allowed freedom?

  • ace5572ace5572 Perrysburg, OHPosts: 113Member
    Originally posted by vanderghast

    To sum up the video:

    Just another sandbox whiner claiming wow ruined everything.

     

    While wow sure dumbed down the genre, games like SWG weren't anything special either as they had no content and no point.  Would it be so hard for someone to make a sandbox themepark that had quests etc and also allowed freedom?

    SWG had no content and no point? I don't think you know what a sandbox is.

  • NotimeforbsNotimeforbs Memphis, TNPosts: 346Member Common
    I agree with him on most of this.  One thing he said is for sure - there should have been 4 or 5 EVE Online inspired MMO's by now.
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,416Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by vanderghast

    To sum up the video:

    Just another sandbox whiner claiming wow ruined everything.

     

    While wow sure dumbed down the genre, games like SWG weren't anything special either as they had no content and no point.  Would it be so hard for someone to make a sandbox themepark that had quests etc and also allowed freedom?

    Yes, it is so hard.  Doesn't mean it isn't worth doing, but....

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,416Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ace5572
    Originally posted by vanderghast

    To sum up the video:

    Just another sandbox whiner claiming wow ruined everything.

     

    While wow sure dumbed down the genre, games like SWG weren't anything special either as they had no content and no point.  Would it be so hard for someone to make a sandbox themepark that had quests etc and also allowed freedom?

    SWG had no content and no point? I don't think you know what a sandbox is.

    He forgot to add terribly broken at release.   You like what you like, but SWG had tremendous problems and issues, regardless.   I looked into playing it then, but had friends on the dev team who warned me away from it. 

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Gormogon


    TL;DW "WoW ruined MMOs."

    That's what I figured it was about. I've no need to rehash that discussion in a youtube video.

    Guess its that time of the week again. image

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Somewhere in nowherePosts: 2,325Member Uncommon

    Sigh...

    Seriously? Again?

    That youtube dude should also inform himself more about sandbox mmo's out there. Who knows, maybe he'll find one he likes instead of whining about WoW some more.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Dallas, TXPosts: 954Member Uncommon
    This dude makes several relevant points regarding the success of WoW, and the effect it's had on the industry. I think anyone looking at the medium without agenda can see this.

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • ace5572ace5572 Perrysburg, OHPosts: 113Member
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    He forgot to add terribly broken at release.   You like what you like, but SWG had tremendous problems and issues, regardless.   I looked into playing it then, but had friends on the dev team who warned me away from it. 

    An MMO that had problems on release? Kind of like ESO does now and its 12 years after SWG was released. Thats just status quo for MMOs man. But it doesn't mean the game was bad....that aside how would you even know if it was terribly broken if you didn't even try it? "i had friends on the dev team" Yeah, right.

  • SadSwordfishSadSwordfish CopenhagenPosts: 78Member

    It can never be WoWs fault. WoW is a game, it's other people that imitated it with their own games. You can never blame someone for doing what they do. It only hurted the industry because, of others. 

     

     

    I was browsing these forums in 2003-2004 when the game was coming out, and EVERYBODY was excited for the game. These forums were very different back then. People were excited because everyone knew MMOs would become much more popular because of it. Everybody knew, and Blizzard said in all their previews, when asked about what made their game different - "We just wanted to make a MMORPG in the Warcraft universe". This game was not about innovation. They just had quests to make it easier to accomplish things in smaller chunks. That's it.

     

    The hearthstone and rest xp in Inn's was a big discussion during the late 2003 Closed Beta on the NA boards. That's basically how it was back then. 

     

    Horizons had failed, DAOC was dying, people were unsatisfied with SWG, Everquest was getting old, and people rather wanted to play battlefield than pay for Planetside. This is how it was. WoW came out at a time when it was needed and it did amazing and was well made. So WoW has done nothing wrong. 

  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Dallas, TXPosts: 954Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SadSwordfish

    WoW came out at a time when it was needed and it did amazing and was well made. So WoW has done nothing wrong. 

    I'm pretty sure he makes the exact same argument during the use of his analogy regarding Michael Jordan, and what his career did to shape the future of basketball. You're absolutely right, WoW didn't do anything wrong, itself, for filling a gap in the market that people desperately wanted fulfilled, but we can blame the industry for chasing its success for ten years, and driving the medium into creative stagnation. We play one type of game actively as MMO's, when there should be so much more to choose from.

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • CaldicotCaldicot StockholmPosts: 432Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SadSwordfish

    It can never be WoWs fault. WoW is a game, it's other people that imitated it with their own games. You can never blame someone for doing what they do. It only hurted the industry because, of others. 

     

     

    I was browsing these forums in 2003-2004 when the game was coming out, and EVERYBODY was excited for the game. These forums were very different back then. People were excited because everyone knew MMOs would become much more popular because of it. Everybody knew, and Blizzard said in all their previews, when asked about what made their game different - "We just wanted to make a MMORPG in the Warcraft universe". This game was not about innovation. They just had quests to make it easier to accomplish things in smaller chunks. That's it.

     

    The hearthstone and rest xp in Inn's was a big discussion during the late 2003 Closed Beta on the NA boards. That's basically how it was back then. 

     

    Horizons had failed, DAOC was dying, people were unsatisfied with SWG, Everquest was getting old, and people rather wanted to play battlefield than pay for Planetside. This is how it was. WoW came out at a time when it was needed and it did amazing and was well made. So WoW has done nothing wrong. 

    There is a lot of truth in this.

    If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan

  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Columbus, OHPosts: 876Member Uncommon

    There actually have been several EVE and UO inspired MMOs out there. Do you know what happened?

    Nobody bothered to play them.

    Darkfall? Niche. Mortal Online? Niche. Perpetuuum? Niche. Face of Mankind? Niche.

    Why, look at that. Just a few of the sandbox MMOs out there (those that are still running), and yet they're barely clinging to life. According to you sandbox lovers, they should be thriving, because everybody wants to play a sandbox game, right?

    I normally like this guy, but this video is 100% wrong, and demonstrably so. Honestly, with all the options available today, if you can't find an MMO to suit your tastes, then it's not the genre itself which has a problem.

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

  • CaldicotCaldicot StockholmPosts: 432Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet

    There actually have been several EVE and UO inspired MMOs out there. Do you know what happened?

    Nobody bothered to play them.

    Darkfall? Niche. Mortal Online? Niche. Perpetuuum? Niche. Face of Mankind? Niche.

    Why, look at that. Just a few of the sandbox MMOs out there (those that are still running), and yet they're barely clinging to life. According to you sandbox lovers, they should be thriving, because everybody wants to play a sandbox game, right?

    I normally like this guy, but this video is 100% wrong, and demonstrably so. Honestly, with all the options available today, if you can't find an MMO to suit your tastes, then it's not the genre itself which has a problem.

    Except for the fact that all the games you mentioned sucked, and demonstrably so. The suckiness had nothing to do with the games being portrayed as sandbox though.

    If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan

  • Shoko_LiedShoko_Lied -, WAPosts: 2,080Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arglebargle
    Originally posted by ace5572
    Originally posted by vanderghast

    To sum up the video:

    Just another sandbox whiner claiming wow ruined everything.

     

    While wow sure dumbed down the genre, games like SWG weren't anything special either as they had no content and no point.  Would it be so hard for someone to make a sandbox themepark that had quests etc and also allowed freedom?

    SWG had no content and no point? I don't think you know what a sandbox is.

    He forgot to add terribly broken at release.   You like what you like, but SWG had tremendous problems and issues, regardless.   I looked into playing it then, but had friends on the dev team who warned me away from it. 

    Broken at release... Sorta like how Blizzard had to give a sh*t ton of people an extra free month because they weren't able to play the first month? Oh and how about the thousands of players who fell to their deaths while traveling via flight path. Yeah... WoW had an incredibly ugly release.

    You might as well point out WoW's broken release if you're going to point out SWG's when referencing releases.

  • Shoko_LiedShoko_Lied -, WAPosts: 2,080Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet

    There actually have been several EVE and UO inspired MMOs out there. Do you know what happened?

    Nobody bothered to play them.

    Darkfall? Niche. Mortal Online? Niche. Perpetuuum? Niche. Face of Mankind? Niche.

    Why, look at that. Just a few of the sandbox MMOs out there (those that are still running), and yet they're barely clinging to life. According to you sandbox lovers, they should be thriving, because everybody wants to play a sandbox game, right?

    I normally like this guy, but this video is 100% wrong, and demonstrably so. Honestly, with all the options available today, if you can't find an MMO to suit your tastes, then it's not the genre itself which has a problem.

    I haven't touched any of those games except for a couple hours of the Darkfall beta.. Like the other guy said, those were sh***y low funded attempts at sandbox mmo's.

    I'm a sandbox mmo lover, but with the incredibly undersaturated development interest in sandbox mmos, the few that are developed have low odds of succeeding. I guess a good analogy would be that throwing 100 dice at once would yield better odds of achieving a snake eyes somewhere in the mix than if you just throw two die.

    And your argument is flawed about the reason for why those mmorpgs are clinging to life, and the sarcasm afterwards. The proof that you are dead wrong can be summed up with both my previous point about the sandbox games you listed being ****, and that EVE online is one of the, if not THE healthiest growing mmorpg in the market. It's not my cup of tea, but it's population has always been healthy and it has continued steadily climbing since release.

    Niche =/= Bad

    Mainstream =/= Quality

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by Shoko_Lied
     

    Niche =/= Bad

    Mainstream =/= Quality

    Thank god we have you to tell us what 'Quality' is and why Sandbox are 'good'.  /sarcasm

    What you think is good = / = What I think is good

    I don't like Jazz but that doesn't mean Jazz is a bad music genre.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Notimeforbs
    I agree with him on most of this.  One thing he said is for sure - there should have been 4 or 5 EVE Online inspired MMO's by now.

    Devs are not very interested in MMOs that takes forever to get to even 500k players.

    Plus it has terrible pve, and the market for FFA pvp is not big.

  • Nearly all theme park MMOs would kill to have 500k players.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,416Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shoko_Lied
    Originally posted by Arglebargle
    Originally posted by ace5572
    Originally posted by vanderghast

    To sum up the video:

    Just another sandbox whiner claiming wow ruined everything.

     

    While wow sure dumbed down the genre, games like SWG weren't anything special either as they had no content and no point.  Would it be so hard for someone to make a sandbox themepark that had quests etc and also allowed freedom?

    SWG had no content and no point? I don't think you know what a sandbox is.

    He forgot to add terribly broken at release.   You like what you like, but SWG had tremendous problems and issues, regardless.   I looked into playing it then, but had friends on the dev team who warned me away from it. 

    Broken at release... Sorta like how Blizzard had to give a sh*t ton of people an extra free month because they weren't able to play the first month? Oh and how about the thousands of players who fell to their deaths while traveling via flight path. Yeah... WoW had an incredibly ugly release.

    You might as well point out WoW's broken release if you're going to point out SWG's when referencing releases.

    No argument on that at all, from me.    But then, I don't care much for WoW, thought it was pretty pedestrian writing, didn't care for the Warcraft universe,  didn't resonate with their sense of humor, etc.   But too often I see the (paraphrased) comment, SWG - Best Game Eveh!   But it was shot through with technical, design, management and implementation issues.  Released a year too early.  SWG - Best Personal Experiance is just fine.  That is what it is for each person.   It was a hugely flawed release though.

     

    WoW had problems, but they managed to work through them in a positive (at least in cash flow) manner.  Of course, now it's big because it's big.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,416Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ace5572
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    He forgot to add terribly broken at release.   You like what you like, but SWG had tremendous problems and issues, regardless.   I looked into playing it then, but had friends on the dev team who warned me away from it. 

    An MMO that had problems on release? Kind of like ESO does now and its 12 years after SWG was released. Thats just status quo for MMOs man. But it doesn't mean the game was bad....that aside how would you even know if it was terribly broken if you didn't even try it? "i had friends on the dev team" Yeah, right.

    <cranky voice>  I can play the old fart card on you all week.  Unless you're running at age 40+, I was RPing before you was born!  <end cranky voice> .

    Due to age, location, and gaming history I know a ton of folks from the Origin  Systems crews, and pretty much every game they put out.   And folks who went on to work at various other game companies.  It's the internet, so anyone can claim anything.  Doesn't change the fact that I know at least two people who worked on SWG.  They were not fond of the experiance, and had some head-shaking tales of middle and upper level mismanagement in the game.  And even though they were Star Wars fans, they counseled against playing it.

     

    If you aren't aware of any problems with the game, you were seriously trying to avoid looking.  Doesn't mean that it can't be your favorite game experiance.   I like Master of Orion 3, but I would never tell anyone it was a well made game.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Notimeforbs
    I agree with him on most of this.  One thing he said is for sure - there should have been 4 or 5 EVE Online inspired MMO's by now.

    Dude complains industry sucks because of wow clones, Suggests making eve clones....
    History repeats itself?

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

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