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  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by sethman75

    Well said OP.

    Kids these days don't appreciate what made the core of those experiences, fun and adventure.

    Both of which you can't get if you rush to cap in 1 day and say the game sucks.

    I will be playing TESO carefully and enjoying it for months, the way it is meant to be played.

    Absolutely

    I think the main issue is that the majority of people reviewing ESO on forums and in blog posts right now are self proclaimed hardcore MMO players, these people have been ripping the ass out of whatever MMO for the last whatever years.

    From this we see burnout. The same thing happened with ex WoW players cursing the game after playing for 6 years or however long. It wasn't the games fault people overplayed and got burned out. When people get bored the games magically get shit.

    As a gamer of nearly 30 years, and as one who loves MMO's but hasn't burned myself out in recent times I reckon I'm in a good position to give an unbiased opinion on ESO.

    It's a really good game.

    Not really... it means you either play allot of games casually which could entitle you to say you are less biased than the hardcore crowd or you could play casually only a few games which makes you as biased as those who claim this game is utter and complete shit because it isn't as good as another game (why? lack of experience, I've played over 40 MMOs of all types from MMORPGs to MMORTS and everything in between from browser, partial-browser to client-based games and ESO does one thing good, deepens crafting, and quite a few things really badly with RvR possibly being a positive but not really my type, if I PVP I go balls to the wall not large instance group love).

    Funny you presume to know my gaming history and instantly try to turn it into a dick swinging contest, but then your attitude is an accurate reflection of the community in general.

    Go you

    I did not presume anything, merely stated the two possible situations in which you may find yourself at the current time and how it would reflect on your capacity to give a unbiased opinion. The fact you felt attacked enough to attack back by that especially when one of those situations vindicates your assertion does not reflect well on your capacity to give an unbiased opinion on a genre which is based on social interaction ( I only stated my own experience as a way for you to see where I am coming from and how I arrived at my opinion on the game, if my intention was to "dick swing" I would've challenged you to supply comparable numbers which I did not nor will ever require ).

    Quotes are fun, it means you can reread what you wrote. You attacked the validity of my opinion.

    Let's not talk about attacking, you started acting like a know-it-all and I called you on it. Don't give it if you can't take it, but for the love of god don't turn it into a he said she said drama. And don't downplay your first passive aggressive patronisation then follow up with another. It's about as subtle as a hardon. No one gives a shit about who between the two of us is more expert in games except you.

    Anyway, your logic seems to state that either one can be casual or a burnout, and therefore no one can ever be qualified to accurately review a game.

    Bizarre

    May I suggest re-reading? Burning out usually requires dedication to a single game for months or even years (depending on game, player disposition, time available for gaming,etc) to the exclusion of most if not all others whereas I suggest, in my two possible situations, that he either has allot of time to give gaming or a little which then does affect his exposure to more recent MMOs and all the negatives that entails ( ESO may look like a spectacular game if you missed most of the games in the last year, year and a half most of which did some of the things ESO has better than it with the exception of crafting which, again, within the AA and AAA launches of the last few years has been neglected quite sorely and the only MMO of the past few years which seems to give a damn about it is AoC which will get a massively revamped crafting system someday).

     

    image
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONPosts: 2,499Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Knotwood
    Originally posted by tixylix
    Just played like WoW to me, not Elder Scrolls.

    I played wow up to level 71 and quite,  If this game played like WoW I would not be playing it.

     

    I think if you go into this game playing this game like WoW, you are going to see WoW.  If you go into this game playing it like an adventure game, you are going to see its clearly not wow by a longshot. 

     

    As far as people saying its like SWTOR,  that's another whole different genre.   Did Conan the barbarian pull out a laser gun and start shooting his enemies,   did the hobbit pull out his light saber and start slaying things like a Jedi?    Seriously wayyyyy two different types of genre.    SWTOR can be put in STO genre,  by all means not put into a High Aventure genre.  

     

    The waters are so muddy around here people don't even know the genre they are playing when they play it anymore.   Its like WoW having Evil Paladins....  Really?  Seriously?  Evil paladins.  yeah ok.   Well you get the picture. and if you don't, then there is nothing I can do to help you understand where I am coming from.

    I agree with you, this doesn't play anything like WoW IMO, and I play a LOT of WoW. If by "playing like WoW" you mean it's a game with quests and crafting and a world then, yes, it plays EXACTLY like WoW. 

     

    When I began playing, I realized how spoiled I'd become with recent MMOs when I stepped into ESO and a few things happened:

    1) I was sitting there thinking to myself, "Huh, been a while since I levelled" 

    2) I wanted to craft something, but had to actually go and discover where the hell things were in the town. 

    3) When I got there, I was like "Damn! I've been gather materials for like an hour and and I can literally make nothing!" (blacksmithing specifically)

    4) I actually have to THINK about character progression and decide how I'm going to play the game and where I'm going to spend my skill points. 

     

    If someone wants to draw comparisons to WoW though, with actual logical arguments I'm all ears. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • EnhesaEnhesa belfastPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by sethman75

    Well said OP.

    Kids these days don't appreciate what made the core of those experiences, fun and adventure.

    Both of which you can't get if you rush to cap in 1 day and say the game sucks.

    I will be playing TESO carefully and enjoying it for months, the way it is meant to be played.

    Absolutely

    I think the main issue is that the majority of people reviewing ESO on forums and in blog posts right now are self proclaimed hardcore MMO players, these people have been ripping the ass out of whatever MMO for the last whatever years.

    From this we see burnout. The same thing happened with ex WoW players cursing the game after playing for 6 years or however long. It wasn't the games fault people overplayed and got burned out. When people get bored the games magically get shit.

    As a gamer of nearly 30 years, and as one who loves MMO's but hasn't burned myself out in recent times I reckon I'm in a good position to give an unbiased opinion on ESO.

    It's a really good game.

    Not really... it means you either play allot of games casually which could entitle you to say you are less biased than the hardcore crowd or you could play casually only a few games which makes you as biased as those who claim this game is utter and complete shit because it isn't as good as another game (why? lack of experience, I've played over 40 MMOs of all types from MMORPGs to MMORTS and everything in between from browser, partial-browser to client-based games and ESO does one thing good, deepens crafting, and quite a few things really badly with RvR possibly being a positive but not really my type, if I PVP I go balls to the wall not large instance group love).

    Funny you presume to know my gaming history and instantly try to turn it into a dick swinging contest, but then your attitude is an accurate reflection of the community in general.

    Go you

    I did not presume anything, merely stated the two possible situations in which you may find yourself at the current time and how it would reflect on your capacity to give a unbiased opinion. The fact you felt attacked enough to attack back by that especially when one of those situations vindicates your assertion does not reflect well on your capacity to give an unbiased opinion on a genre which is based on social interaction ( I only stated my own experience as a way for you to see where I am coming from and how I arrived at my opinion on the game, if my intention was to "dick swing" I would've challenged you to supply comparable numbers which I did not nor will ever require ).

    Quotes are fun, it means you can reread what you wrote. You attacked the validity of my opinion.

    Let's not talk about attacking, you started acting like a know-it-all and I called you on it. Don't give it if you can't take it, but for the love of god don't turn it into a he said she said drama. And don't downplay your first passive aggressive patronisation then follow up with another. It's about as subtle as a hardon. No one gives a shit about who between the two of us is more expert in games except you.

    Anyway, your logic seems to state that either one can be casual or a burnout, and therefore no one can ever be qualified to accurately review a game.

    Bizarre

    May I suggest re-reading? Burning out usually requires dedication to a single game for months or even years (depending on game, player disposition, time available for gaming,etc) to the exclusion of most if not all others whereas I suggest, in my two possible situations, that he either has allot of time to give gaming or a little which then does affect his exposure to more recent MMOs and all the negatives that entails ( ESO may look like a spectacular game if you missed most of the games in the last year, year and a half most of which did some of the things ESO has better than it with the exception of crafting which, again, within the AA and AAA launches of the last few years has been neglected quite sorely and the only MMO of the past few years which seems to give a damn about it is AoC which will get a massively revamped crafting system someday).

     

    You're not taking into account genre burnout, which in the case of MMO's is a very real thing. So no, burnout doesn't require dedication to a single game.

    I didn't say ESO was spectacular, I said it was really good. It feels well executed. As a package for me it does more better than any other theme park MMO has for years. I could be just as narrow minded and say if you don't like ESO stop play every single MMO every single day, but I'm not.

    This is an opinion.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by sethman75

    Well said OP.

    Kids these days don't appreciate what made the core of those experiences, fun and adventure.

    Both of which you can't get if you rush to cap in 1 day and say the game sucks.

    I will be playing TESO carefully and enjoying it for months, the way it is meant to be played.

    Absolutely

    I think the main issue is that the majority of people reviewing ESO on forums and in blog posts right now are self proclaimed hardcore MMO players, these people have been ripping the ass out of whatever MMO for the last whatever years.

    From this we see burnout. The same thing happened with ex WoW players cursing the game after playing for 6 years or however long. It wasn't the games fault people overplayed and got burned out. When people get bored the games magically get shit.

    As a gamer of nearly 30 years, and as one who loves MMO's but hasn't burned myself out in recent times I reckon I'm in a good position to give an unbiased opinion on ESO.

    It's a really good game.

    "Self proclaimed hardcore MMO players"? What does that mean...exactly? Is that the definition of an experienced gamer who didn't like ESO? Your reference implies an Ad-Hom against the game's critics.

    "Burn Out" huh? Exactly what kind of data lead you to this conclusion? What did you see it happen a handful of times and have now reached the conclusion that this must be what is responsible for why someone might not like ESO? What a great way to think about it. This way, you can absolutely claim there is nothing possibly wrong with the game and that it's these player's fault so you can rightfully tell them to GTFO!

    As for your "unbiased opinion"?....not really. It's biased. Not saying it's misinformed, just not unbiased.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Knotwood
    Originally posted by tixylix
    Just played like WoW to me, not Elder Scrolls.

    I played wow up to level 71 and quite,  If this game played like WoW I would not be playing it.

     

    I think if you go into this game playing this game like WoW, you are going to see WoW.  If you go into this game playing it like an adventure game, you are going to see its clearly not wow by a longshot. 

     

    As far as people saying its like SWTOR,  that's another whole different genre.   Did Conan the barbarian pull out a laser gun and start shooting his enemies,   did the hobbit pull out his light saber and start slaying things like a Jedi?    Seriously wayyyyy two different types of genre.    SWTOR can be put in STO genre,  by all means not put into a High Aventure genre.  

     

    The waters are so muddy around here people don't even know the genre they are playing when they play it anymore.   Its like WoW having Evil Paladins....  Really?  Seriously?  Evil paladins.  yeah ok.   Well you get the picture. and if you don't, then there is nothing I can do to help you understand where I am coming from.

    I agree with you, this doesn't play anything like WoW IMO, and I play a LOT of WoW. If by "playing like WoW" you mean it's a game with quests and crafting and a world then, yes, it plays EXACTLY like WoW. 

     

    When I began playing, I realized how spoiled I'd become with recent MMOs when I stepped into ESO and a few things happened:

    1) I was sitting there thinking to myself, "Huh, been a while since I levelled" 

    2) I wanted to craft something, but had to actually go and discover where the hell things were in the town. 

    3) When I got there, I was like "Damn! I've been gather materials for like an hour and and I can literally make nothing!" (blacksmithing specifically)

    4) I actually have to THINK about character progression and decide how I'm going to play the game and where I'm going to spend my skill points. 

     

    If someone wants to draw comparisons to WoW though, with actual logical arguments I'm all ears. 

    1) You did that in WoW too, vanilla was, while easier than EQ 1 to level, notorious in this respect.

    2) Same as WoW in the beginning before maps, quests, wikis,etc.

    3) The depth of the crafting is in its flexibility, if you go by pure capacity to craft after an hour then ESO is equal to WoW in as far as crafting something useful is concerned.

    4) Flexibility in progression is ok but at the end of the day if you have to have certain builds to be effective you aren't really thinking after min/maxing has been nailed down.

     

    As I said earlier ESO stands out in its crafting but not much else.

    image
  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by sethman75

    Well said OP.

    Kids these days don't appreciate what made the core of those experiences, fun and adventure.

    Both of which you can't get if you rush to cap in 1 day and say the game sucks.

    I will be playing TESO carefully and enjoying it for months, the way it is meant to be played.

    Absolutely

    I think the main issue is that the majority of people reviewing ESO on forums and in blog posts right now are self proclaimed hardcore MMO players, these people have been ripping the ass out of whatever MMO for the last whatever years.

    From this we see burnout. The same thing happened with ex WoW players cursing the game after playing for 6 years or however long. It wasn't the games fault people overplayed and got burned out. When people get bored the games magically get shit.

    As a gamer of nearly 30 years, and as one who loves MMO's but hasn't burned myself out in recent times I reckon I'm in a good position to give an unbiased opinion on ESO.

    It's a really good game.

    "Self proclaimed hardcore MMO players"? What does that mean...exactly? Is that the definition of an experienced gamer who didn't like ESO? Your reference implies an Ad-Hom against the game's critics.

    "Burn Out" huh? Exactly what kind of data lead you to this conclusion? What did you see it happen a handful of times and have now reached the conclusion that this must be what is responsible for why someone might not like ESO? What a great way to think about it. This way, you can absolutely claim there is nothing possibly wrong with the game and that it's these player's fault so you can rightfully tell them to GTFO!

    As for your "unbiased opinion"?....not really. It's biased. Not saying it's misinformed, just not unbiased.

    image

    Well said Geezer.  It's funny how some of us get labeled as "kids", "burnouts", etc.. automatically for not agreeing with someone's praise.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Knotwood
    Originally posted by tixylix
    Just played like WoW to me, not Elder Scrolls.

    I played wow up to level 71 and quite,  If this game played like WoW I would not be playing it.

     

    I think if you go into this game playing this game like WoW, you are going to see WoW.  If you go into this game playing it like an adventure game, you are going to see its clearly not wow by a longshot. 

     

    As far as people saying its like SWTOR,  that's another whole different genre.   Did Conan the barbarian pull out a laser gun and start shooting his enemies,   did the hobbit pull out his light saber and start slaying things like a Jedi?    Seriously wayyyyy two different types of genre.    SWTOR can be put in STO genre,  by all means not put into a High Aventure genre.  

     

    The waters are so muddy around here people don't even know the genre they are playing when they play it anymore.   Its like WoW having Evil Paladins....  Really?  Seriously?  Evil paladins.  yeah ok.   Well you get the picture. and if you don't, then there is nothing I can do to help you understand where I am coming from.

    I agree with you, this doesn't play anything like WoW IMO, and I play a LOT of WoW. If by "playing like WoW" you mean it's a game with quests and crafting and a world then, yes, it plays EXACTLY like WoW. 

     

    When I began playing, I realized how spoiled I'd become with recent MMOs when I stepped into ESO and a few things happened:

    1) I was sitting there thinking to myself, "Huh, been a while since I levelled" 

    2) I wanted to craft something, but had to actually go and discover where the hell things were in the town. 

    3) When I got there, I was like "Damn! I've been gather materials for like an hour and and I can literally make nothing!" (blacksmithing specifically)

    4) I actually have to THINK about character progression and decide how I'm going to play the game and where I'm going to spend my skill points. 

     

    If someone wants to draw comparisons to WoW though, with actual logical arguments I'm all ears. 

    1) You did that in WoW too, vanilla was, while easier than EQ 1 to level, notorious in this respect.

    2) Same as WoW in the beginning before maps, quests, wikis,etc.

    3) The depth of the crafting is in its flexibility, if you go by pure capacity to craft after an hour then ESO is equal to WoW in as far as crafting something useful is concerned.

    4) Flexibility in progression is ok but at the end of the day if you have to have certain builds to be effective you aren't really thinking after min/maxing has been nailed down.

     

    As I said earlier ESO stands out in its crafting but not much else.

    actually it stands out in quite a bit more but for some reason you seem to be on this kick lately that your opinion is the only one that matters. We get you do not like the game, you are starting to act a lot like Taela now.....

  • EnhesaEnhesa belfastPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by sethman75

    Well said OP.

    Kids these days don't appreciate what made the core of those experiences, fun and adventure.

    Both of which you can't get if you rush to cap in 1 day and say the game sucks.

    I will be playing TESO carefully and enjoying it for months, the way it is meant to be played.

    Absolutely

    I think the main issue is that the majority of people reviewing ESO on forums and in blog posts right now are self proclaimed hardcore MMO players, these people have been ripping the ass out of whatever MMO for the last whatever years.

    From this we see burnout. The same thing happened with ex WoW players cursing the game after playing for 6 years or however long. It wasn't the games fault people overplayed and got burned out. When people get bored the games magically get shit.

    As a gamer of nearly 30 years, and as one who loves MMO's but hasn't burned myself out in recent times I reckon I'm in a good position to give an unbiased opinion on ESO.

    It's a really good game.

    "Self proclaimed hardcore MMO players"? What does that mean...exactly? Is that the definition of an experienced gamer who didn't like ESO? Your reference implies an Ad-Hom against the game's critics.

    "Burn Out" huh? Exactly what kind of data lead you to this conclusion? What did you see it happen a handful of times and have now reached the conclusion that this must be what is responsible for why someone might not like ESO? What a great way to think about it. This way, you can absolutely claim there is nothing possibly wrong with the game and that it's these player's fault so you can rightfully tell them to GTFO!

    As for your "unbiased opinion"?....not really. It's biased. Not saying it's misinformed, just not unbiased.

    image

    Well said Geezer.  It's funny how some of us get labeled as "kids", "burnouts", etc.. automatically for not agreeing with someone's praise.

    I'm not labelling anyone, least of all the folk here I don't know.

    I'm saying that it's incredibly difficult to get an accurate review on a game within this industry above all other industries, because largely gamers don't know when to stop, and that leads to a jaded outlook.

    I was generalising, and I'm not saying that everyone who doesn't like ESO is wrong.

    What I'm saying is the internet is coming down with throngs of people saying this game is complete shit, and it actually isn't complete shit.

  • EnhesaEnhesa belfastPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by sethman75

    Well said OP.

    Kids these days don't appreciate what made the core of those experiences, fun and adventure.

    Both of which you can't get if you rush to cap in 1 day and say the game sucks.

    I will be playing TESO carefully and enjoying it for months, the way it is meant to be played.

    Absolutely

    I think the main issue is that the majority of people reviewing ESO on forums and in blog posts right now are self proclaimed hardcore MMO players, these people have been ripping the ass out of whatever MMO for the last whatever years.

    From this we see burnout. The same thing happened with ex WoW players cursing the game after playing for 6 years or however long. It wasn't the games fault people overplayed and got burned out. When people get bored the games magically get shit.

    As a gamer of nearly 30 years, and as one who loves MMO's but hasn't burned myself out in recent times I reckon I'm in a good position to give an unbiased opinion on ESO.

    It's a really good game.

    "Self proclaimed hardcore MMO players"? What does that mean...exactly? Is that the definition of an experienced gamer who didn't like ESO? Your reference implies an Ad-Hom against the game's critics.

    "Burn Out" huh? Exactly what kind of data lead you to this conclusion? What did you see it happen a handful of times and have now reached the conclusion that this must be what is responsible for why someone might not like ESO? What a great way to think about it. This way, you can absolutely claim there is nothing possibly wrong with the game and that it's these player's fault so you can rightfully tell them to GTFO!

    As for your "unbiased opinion"?....not really. It's biased. Not saying it's misinformed, just not unbiased.

    Explain to me how my opinion is biased.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon

    I've been following MMORPG.com since Rift. And one thing I can say from my experience. When I look at threads following every game's release, It's always the same. Fanbois vs haters. Every game. No exceptions. No middle ground. Wel,, that's the perception anyway. Most posters really are middle ground, but they get labeled as one or the other depending on the perception of their post.

    I have found that when there are Rabid fanboy posts defending against what seems like legitimate claims as well as ridiculous claims meant to stir up players against the game, I've found one thing to be true.

    The game is probably a decent game. Nothing great, but pretty good too.

    When I look at all the posts about this game so far, when I look at both the positive and negative opinions that are valid. And I weigh them out, I come to a conclusion that we have a decent game with issues. (Just like all the rest) Some issues are bigger than others but at the same time, it's not without it's redeeming qualities.

    I came to this determination after FF14, where I had thought I had found my new game, so, I defended it against the nay sayers. Only some of what they were saying was true. In time, I found myself losing my stance for the game and ultimately starting to agree with some of its critics. And that position continued to slide until I ultimately found myself facing one of the exact game breaking issues that was presented from day 1 that I had been defending against. yet there it was. And I ultimately quit over it.

    But yeah, I get it, ESO is different. This time its for real. I mean, sure, it was for really real the last time and only for real the time before, but this time, it' really really is for really real. I mean If only it could be conveyed just how much this time is for real compared to last time it was for really real. Not to say that it wasn't for real last time and the time before, but this time it's different. 

     

    Yep! I'll wait. But to be fair, I have yet to regret any of the purchases. They have all been worth playing, even if I ended up quitting. I would say ESO will probably be the same, I'll get a few months out of it and move on.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by sethman75

    Well said OP.

    Kids these days don't appreciate what made the core of those experiences, fun and adventure.

    Both of which you can't get if you rush to cap in 1 day and say the game sucks.

    I will be playing TESO carefully and enjoying it for months, the way it is meant to be played.

    Absolutely

    I think the main issue is that the majority of people reviewing ESO on forums and in blog posts right now are self proclaimed hardcore MMO players, these people have been ripping the ass out of whatever MMO for the last whatever years.

    From this we see burnout. The same thing happened with ex WoW players cursing the game after playing for 6 years or however long. It wasn't the games fault people overplayed and got burned out. When people get bored the games magically get shit.

    As a gamer of nearly 30 years, and as one who loves MMO's but hasn't burned myself out in recent times I reckon I'm in a good position to give an unbiased opinion on ESO.

    It's a really good game.

    "Self proclaimed hardcore MMO players"? What does that mean...exactly? Is that the definition of an experienced gamer who didn't like ESO? Your reference implies an Ad-Hom against the game's critics.

    "Burn Out" huh? Exactly what kind of data lead you to this conclusion? What did you see it happen a handful of times and have now reached the conclusion that this must be what is responsible for why someone might not like ESO? What a great way to think about it. This way, you can absolutely claim there is nothing possibly wrong with the game and that it's these player's fault so you can rightfully tell them to GTFO!

    As for your "unbiased opinion"?....not really. It's biased. Not saying it's misinformed, just not unbiased.

    Explain to me how my opinion is biased.

    An unbiased opinion would consider everyone's opinion equally. It would see all sides of the game. It would accept the criticism and the praise and try to seek the happy medium. 

  • EnhesaEnhesa belfastPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by sethman75

    Well said OP.

    Kids these days don't appreciate what made the core of those experiences, fun and adventure.

    Both of which you can't get if you rush to cap in 1 day and say the game sucks.

    I will be playing TESO carefully and enjoying it for months, the way it is meant to be played.

    Absolutely

    I think the main issue is that the majority of people reviewing ESO on forums and in blog posts right now are self proclaimed hardcore MMO players, these people have been ripping the ass out of whatever MMO for the last whatever years.

    From this we see burnout. The same thing happened with ex WoW players cursing the game after playing for 6 years or however long. It wasn't the games fault people overplayed and got burned out. When people get bored the games magically get shit.

    As a gamer of nearly 30 years, and as one who loves MMO's but hasn't burned myself out in recent times I reckon I'm in a good position to give an unbiased opinion on ESO.

    It's a really good game.

    "Self proclaimed hardcore MMO players"? What does that mean...exactly? Is that the definition of an experienced gamer who didn't like ESO? Your reference implies an Ad-Hom against the game's critics.

    "Burn Out" huh? Exactly what kind of data lead you to this conclusion? What did you see it happen a handful of times and have now reached the conclusion that this must be what is responsible for why someone might not like ESO? What a great way to think about it. This way, you can absolutely claim there is nothing possibly wrong with the game and that it's these player's fault so you can rightfully tell them to GTFO!

    As for your "unbiased opinion"?....not really. It's biased. Not saying it's misinformed, just not unbiased.

    Explain to me how my opinion is biased.

    An unbiased opinion would consider everyone's opinion equally. It would see all sides of the game. It would accept the criticism and the praise and try to seek the happy medium. 

    Are you talking about my opinion on the game or my opinion on peoples opinion?

  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Boston, MAPosts: 387Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Knotwood

    As I played over the last few days, I realized something more.  I've grown older since I started playing MMORPG's.  Quite a bit older.  Old enough to call myself an old school gamer.

     

    I grew up in the days when Movies like Conan the Barbarian, Willow, Dragon Slayer, Legend, Lady Hawke, The Beastmaster, King Authur, and countless Mythology movies that were all Top Movie Hits.  Those were the days of High Adventure.  This is what we loved in the old school days of D&D and gaming. 

     

    When EQ came out it was like the adventures we got to see in epic high adventure type movies,  soon after we seen EQOA and other games of that genre.   These games appealed to old schoolers, as time moved on, SOE created the monster EQ2 and WoW came out which started a path away from HIgh Adventure.   Then came Age of Conan, a game which was wholely unfinished, and hurt the Old School games, not because it wasn't great, but because of hits horrible launch.

     

    Old schoolers then seen a movment of the MMO industry away from High adventure titles, until LOTRO.  It was the beacon of hope for Old Schoolers, and till this day, both EQ and LOTRO are still strong.   Since then we have seen Movies like Lord of the Rings do really well in theaters and TV series Game of Thrones, which is a #1 hit, which brought a glimmer of hope to my eyes once again, seeing that old school money and instrest is not completely dead!  

     

    For many years I felt as though the MMO industry had forgotten that we old schoolers who loved High Adventure still existed in the shadows of many other games.   Then came my greatest hope yet....  ESO.   ESO means more then just another MMO, it represents all the things I loved growing up in High Adventure and what Old School Adventure is like.  ESO has brought that back to us as old schoolers, and gave us a masterpiece we have been waiting for, for a long time.

     

    So when I hear someone whos younger say that ESO sucks, it feel its because they did not grow up in my days.  Where the Music was that of High Adventure, like in movies of Conan the Barbarian or the rest I listed.   To sit back and hear music that inspires high adventure and can tell a story on its own is a truly beautiful art that has been lost over the past decade.  Or a game that can tell a story that gives you the feeling of actually being in a move of the old school day movies.   Its a wonder to be in a game of this quality that is Old School at its heart and is a dream come true, to see the voice overs, the sights in the world that are so real looking that every detail on a building or on the horizon takes you right to High Adventure days.  To me this is the next gen Old School game I have been waiting a decade to see come true! 

     

    For that I want to say Thank you Zenimax for not giving up on the Old School players and stayed true to the feeling and immersion of the old school days of High Adventure!!!   I feel there will be a lot of others who feel the same as I do....

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I AGREE 100% knotwood!

    You wont see WoW type kiddies in this game, as this is a game for true RPG'rs!

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,523Member Uncommon

    Pure opinion.

    Old school - not to me.

    Old school - UO, EQ1, DAoC, AC

    ESO PvE - quest quest quest, dungeons are tiny.

    ESO PvP - best part of the game IMO, still not quite as good as DAoC

     

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by sethman75

    Well said OP.

    Kids these days don't appreciate what made the core of those experiences, fun and adventure.

    Both of which you can't get if you rush to cap in 1 day and say the game sucks.

    I will be playing TESO carefully and enjoying it for months, the way it is meant to be played.

    Absolutely

    I think the main issue is that the majority of people reviewing ESO on forums and in blog posts right now are self proclaimed hardcore MMO players, these people have been ripping the ass out of whatever MMO for the last whatever years.

    From this we see burnout. The same thing happened with ex WoW players cursing the game after playing for 6 years or however long. It wasn't the games fault people overplayed and got burned out. When people get bored the games magically get shit.

    As a gamer of nearly 30 years, and as one who loves MMO's but hasn't burned myself out in recent times I reckon I'm in a good position to give an unbiased opinion on ESO.

    It's a really good game.

    "Self proclaimed hardcore MMO players"? What does that mean...exactly? Is that the definition of an experienced gamer who didn't like ESO? Your reference implies an Ad-Hom against the game's critics.

    "Burn Out" huh? Exactly what kind of data lead you to this conclusion? What did you see it happen a handful of times and have now reached the conclusion that this must be what is responsible for why someone might not like ESO? What a great way to think about it. This way, you can absolutely claim there is nothing possibly wrong with the game and that it's these player's fault so you can rightfully tell them to GTFO!

    As for your "unbiased opinion"?....not really. It's biased. Not saying it's misinformed, just not unbiased.

    Explain to me how my opinion is biased.

    An unbiased opinion would consider everyone's opinion equally. It would see all sides of the game. It would accept the criticism and the praise and try to seek the happy medium. 

    Are you talking about my opinion on the game or my opinion on peoples opinion?

    Huh? Look at the posts leading to you saying "Absolutely" The context of the entire sub-thread, is based on agreeing with the OP about the game and then Ad-Hom'ing those who don't. Both points are subjective, mutually supportive, and biased.

  • EnhesaEnhesa belfastPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by sethman75

    Well said OP.

    Kids these days don't appreciate what made the core of those experiences, fun and adventure.

    Both of which you can't get if you rush to cap in 1 day and say the game sucks.

    I will be playing TESO carefully and enjoying it for months, the way it is meant to be played.

    Absolutely

    I think the main issue is that the majority of people reviewing ESO on forums and in blog posts right now are self proclaimed hardcore MMO players, these people have been ripping the ass out of whatever MMO for the last whatever years.

    From this we see burnout. The same thing happened with ex WoW players cursing the game after playing for 6 years or however long. It wasn't the games fault people overplayed and got burned out. When people get bored the games magically get shit.

    As a gamer of nearly 30 years, and as one who loves MMO's but hasn't burned myself out in recent times I reckon I'm in a good position to give an unbiased opinion on ESO.

    It's a really good game.

    "Self proclaimed hardcore MMO players"? What does that mean...exactly? Is that the definition of an experienced gamer who didn't like ESO? Your reference implies an Ad-Hom against the game's critics.

    "Burn Out" huh? Exactly what kind of data lead you to this conclusion? What did you see it happen a handful of times and have now reached the conclusion that this must be what is responsible for why someone might not like ESO? What a great way to think about it. This way, you can absolutely claim there is nothing possibly wrong with the game and that it's these player's fault so you can rightfully tell them to GTFO!

    As for your "unbiased opinion"?....not really. It's biased. Not saying it's misinformed, just not unbiased.

    Explain to me how my opinion is biased.

    An unbiased opinion would consider everyone's opinion equally. It would see all sides of the game. It would accept the criticism and the praise and try to seek the happy medium. 

    Are you talking about my opinion on the game or my opinion on peoples opinion?

    Huh? Look at the posts leading to you saying "Absolutely" The context of the entire sub-thread, is based on agreeing with the OP about the game and then Ad-Hom'ing those who don't. Both points are subjective, mutually supportive, and biased.

    Well, ya see, I was making two different points; my opinion on the gaming industry/community at the start,  and at the end, my opinion on the game which I feel is unbiased.

    You argue that my unbiased opinion is in fact biased, and to support this you state that an unbiased opinion would consider everyones opinion equally. The problem here is that I don't consider the opinions of others when developing my own personal opinion on a game, which leads me to understand that you didn't really get what I meant in the first place.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by cronius77
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Knotwood
    Originally posted by tixylix
    Just played like WoW to me, not Elder Scrolls.

    I played wow up to level 71 and quite,  If this game played like WoW I would not be playing it.

     

    I think if you go into this game playing this game like WoW, you are going to see WoW.  If you go into this game playing it like an adventure game, you are going to see its clearly not wow by a longshot. 

     

    As far as people saying its like SWTOR,  that's another whole different genre.   Did Conan the barbarian pull out a laser gun and start shooting his enemies,   did the hobbit pull out his light saber and start slaying things like a Jedi?    Seriously wayyyyy two different types of genre.    SWTOR can be put in STO genre,  by all means not put into a High Aventure genre.  

     

    The waters are so muddy around here people don't even know the genre they are playing when they play it anymore.   Its like WoW having Evil Paladins....  Really?  Seriously?  Evil paladins.  yeah ok.   Well you get the picture. and if you don't, then there is nothing I can do to help you understand where I am coming from.

    I agree with you, this doesn't play anything like WoW IMO, and I play a LOT of WoW. If by "playing like WoW" you mean it's a game with quests and crafting and a world then, yes, it plays EXACTLY like WoW. 

     

    When I began playing, I realized how spoiled I'd become with recent MMOs when I stepped into ESO and a few things happened:

    1) I was sitting there thinking to myself, "Huh, been a while since I levelled" 

    2) I wanted to craft something, but had to actually go and discover where the hell things were in the town. 

    3) When I got there, I was like "Damn! I've been gather materials for like an hour and and I can literally make nothing!" (blacksmithing specifically)

    4) I actually have to THINK about character progression and decide how I'm going to play the game and where I'm going to spend my skill points. 

     

    If someone wants to draw comparisons to WoW though, with actual logical arguments I'm all ears. 

    1) You did that in WoW too, vanilla was, while easier than EQ 1 to level, notorious in this respect.

    2) Same as WoW in the beginning before maps, quests, wikis,etc.

    3) The depth of the crafting is in its flexibility, if you go by pure capacity to craft after an hour then ESO is equal to WoW in as far as crafting something useful is concerned.

    4) Flexibility in progression is ok but at the end of the day if you have to have certain builds to be effective you aren't really thinking after min/maxing has been nailed down.

     

    As I said earlier ESO stands out in its crafting but not much else.

    actually it stands out in quite a bit more but for some reason you seem to be on this kick lately that your opinion is the only one that matters. We get you do not like the game, you are starting to act a lot like Taela now.....

    PVP done better by EVE-Online, Perpetuum Online, Albion Online, Gloria Victis, etc,etc.

    PVE done better by WoW, Vindictus (mechanics wise), Rift, etc.

    Crafting... not so many that can compare currently.

    I know you want to believe in the game but do not mistake your opinion for fact unless you really wanna pull a Knotwood on us.

    image
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,523Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sk1ppeR
    Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
    Originally posted by Knotwood
    When some people compare old school games to ESO, they might only see mechanics, but there is a vision.  That vision is what I love and talk about.   its a old school vision that has no mechanical limits on it, it is not the way you swing your sword, or how you press the x button or see a UI...  

    Brad McQuaid ?

     

    Vanguard had way better vision in my opinion, and looked amazing, the way an mmo should look and how an mmo should play , no loading screens.

     

    TESO is the same old thing, with a few peices glued on from Skyrim.

    Even though I agree with you about the loading screen, I think its impossible these days. In the age where people call EQ:Next's graphics childish dull, stupid and childish ... the developers are forced to use high resolution detailed worlds and thats a lot of gigabytes. It takes time to load all this. Hell, battlefield 4 is freaking gorgeous at ultra graphics, yet it takes about 2-3 minutes to load a map for me. I mean sure, I have an SSD to improve on that but I prefer having Gw2 on it. So yeah, point of my post is that we'll see loading screens more and more often for longer and longer periods of time. Unless hardware processing power quadriples every other year. 

    ArcheAge has no loading screens for the entire outside world - which is several times bigger than all of ESO put together.

    It has nothing to do with graphics, it has to do with game engine and design of the world.

     

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Enhesa
     

    Well, ya see, I was making two different points; my opinion on the gaming industry/community at the start,  and at the end, my opinion on the game which I feel is unbiased.

    You argue that my unbiased opinion is in fact biased, and to support this you state that an unbiased opinion would consider everyones opinion equally. The problem here is that I don't consider the opinions of others when developing my own personal opinion on a game, which leads me to understand that you didn't really get what I meant in the first place.

    The way you describe coming to your conclusions is absolutely the best way to do it (in my opinion). I won't argue there. But that doesn't mean it's unbiased.

    Edit: At this point, I think we should just agree to disagree on what "biased" means.

  • EnhesaEnhesa belfastPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Enhesa
     

    Well, ya see, I was making two different points; my opinion on the gaming industry/community at the start,  and at the end, my opinion on the game which I feel is unbiased.

    You argue that my unbiased opinion is in fact biased, and to support this you state that an unbiased opinion would consider everyones opinion equally. The problem here is that I don't consider the opinions of others when developing my own personal opinion on a game, which leads me to understand that you didn't really get what I meant in the first place.

    The way you describe coming to your conclusions is absolutely the best way to do it (in my opinion). I won't argue there. But that doesn't mean it's unbiased.

    Edit: At this point, I think we should just agree to disagree on what "biased" means.

     

    My opinion on gamers is definately biased, since I think most gamers are complete ass clowns.

    Including myself

  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 801Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yoda_Clone

    Knotwood, at times you sound like the Shill of Shills.

    ESO is not EQ; not even close.

    It is a linear game; not as bad as SW-TOR or AoC, but not free roaming gameplay like the Elder Scolls games, either.

    It is not the Second Coming (TM).

    Let it be what it is and quit trying to hype it so much.

    Linear? It's an MMO. What did you think it'd be like? You can't have multiple players of varying levels and make it so every region is appropriate for  all of them.  

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sketocafe
    Originally posted by Yoda_Clone

    Knotwood, at times you sound like the Shill of Shills.

    ESO is not EQ; not even close.

    It is a linear game; not as bad as SW-TOR or AoC, but not free roaming gameplay like the Elder Scolls games, either.

    It is not the Second Coming (TM).

    Let it be what it is and quit trying to hype it so much.

    Linear? It's an MMO. What did you think it'd be like? You can't have multiple players of varying levels and make it so every region is appropriate for  all of them.  

    GW2 is also MMO and they managed to solve this problem.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    Calling this game "old school" is laughable.

    "Old school" games didn't sell horses for $14.99 real dollars.

    https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/store

    It's not going to be their only cash shop item either, they've already said that.

     

    Like the game, like the mechanics but don't dare compare this dookie to old school and defile the times when you had to EARN things in the game instead of have the option to pay for them.

     

    What is even the point in playing when things are for sale. It taints the whole concept of playing the game for any reason. The store will only get larger, not smaller, that you can assure yourself about and they sowed the seed for it. Not one post I saw on the game asked for a horse to buy, not one beta post either.

    You may have bugged quests and instances right now but that cash shop, it sure works, doesn't it. You just think about that when you think about their priorities and what they value as worthwhile to work on.

     

    One day when they work on the cash shop more than the game -

    it will dawn on you that you aren't playing an

     

    MMORPG,

     

    you are in a retail shop where the goal is to make the game uncomfortable UNTIL you use the cash shop.

    It needs a new name. How about MMOBSS. Massive-multiplayer-online-buy-some-shit game sound about right to me to describe it.

     

    Maybe they'll just sell cosmetics? Yeah, cosmetics that look better than everything else in the game or else why would you buy them. So, be jealous of your neighbor looking better than you in your scrappy twill and spend more money.

     

    Paying for a sub game

     

    that has a free to play shadow isn't

     

    my idea of "old school".

     

    I hope you all have that realization one day that you could be just playing a free to play game and be treated the same with a cash shop as you will be here in this farce of a sub based game.

    P.S. What happened to that RP server they talked about and twittered out that people could join, yeah went the way of the dodo for the cash shop didn't it. It was more important to develop though both were late additions. There's a fitting saying for this, judge people by what they DO not what they SAY. 

    This is what my MMOs were like in the "old" days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaY3EDPCMr0

    The pieces to "forbidden power" were never for sale.

  • KnotwoodKnotwood Missoula, MTPosts: 1,103Member
    Originally posted by Enhesa
    Originally posted by sethman75

    Well said OP.

    Kids these days don't appreciate what made the core of those experiences, fun and adventure.

    Both of which you can't get if you rush to cap in 1 day and say the game sucks.

    I will be playing TESO carefully and enjoying it for months, the way it is meant to be played.

    Absolutely

    I think the main issue is that the majority of people reviewing ESO on forums and in blog posts right now are self proclaimed hardcore MMO players, these people have been ripping the ass out of whatever MMO for the last whatever years.

    From this we see burnout. The same thing happened with ex WoW players cursing the game after playing for 6 years or however long. It wasn't the games fault people overplayed and got burned out. When people get bored the games magically get shit.

    As a gamer of nearly 30 years, and as one who loves MMO's but hasn't burned myself out in recent times I reckon I'm in a good position to give an unbiased opinion on ESO.

    It's a really good game.

    Two players after my own heart and understand what I am saying...

     

    I would like to add, ESO is like a 1000 year old bottle of wine, made to be savored and tasted in a way to appreciate the high quality of the wine.    

     

    Where as the hardcore MMO players who rush tot he top of every game to say it sucks and missed all the content to that point, are kind of like that drunk who grabs a bottle of 100o year old bottle of wine and drinks it like it was cheap beer, only to turn to you and drunken spit in your face while trying to tell you how much it sucked. 

     

    People got to know how to recognize that 1000 year old bottle, and have enough patience to understand what they are drinking and why, in order to appreciate it to its fullest.

     

  • KnotwoodKnotwood Missoula, MTPosts: 1,103Member

    For me ESO is my 1000 year old bottle of wine. I'm sure some would prefer ten cases of beer instead of that 1000 year old bottle of wine, because they would rather get drink that many times more. But to me, this 1000year old bottle of wine is 100% my tastes.


    ESO takes everything I loved in my childhood and wraps it up into one big package and delivers it into a modern up to date modern game that is realistic graphic, voiced over, and everything I could possibly have wanted in a modern game of this type of genre style.


    When I look at the timeline of games that were inspired by things of high adventure genre of my youth that I enjoyed the most, I can only identify a handful of games up to this date that have been made with my tastes of high adventure at heart. Among them I see EQ, Eqoa, Lotro,and Age of Conan as the types of games that are my tastes of bottles of wine which do not come out everyday.


    So to me a game isn't about weather its theme park, sandbox, or even the cost of the game, it doesn't matter. Its about having something oldschool that is my taste of genre of high adventure that has come out, which I haven't tasted in over 5 years.


    Games of this type genre which I loved so much from my childhood do not come out every day that are pure to my old school tastes of the high adventure of my youth across all spectrums from movies, table top dice throwing, to games. So this game might not be your 1000 year old scool bottle of high adventure genre that your taste buds love, but you have to at least respect the fact that my taste of 1000 year old wine is ESO.


    I might see WoW or Wildstar as cheap beer, whereas you might see it as your 1000 year old wine for another reason. While you may call my ESO as cheap bear, when I see it as 1000 year old wine because it represents the old school high adventure genre of my youth that I so much enjoyed in life.


    Someone tried to tell me that Conan with a laser pistol would be the same, so ESO is the same as SWTOR, but do you really think it could possibly be the same for me if Conan the barbarian had a laser pistol, could I have loved Conan the Barbarian if he had a laser pistol or anything sci-fi in the movie? That answer to me, would be No, I could not feel the same way about that movie it was like that, just as I cannot feel SWTOR is the same as ESO.


    Well I'm off to play the game I love, I hope I have inspired the many people who love Old School High Adventure and do not let others dis-sway you from things you love, just because others hate it or might not recognize the difference between the old school high adventure genre we grew up on and came to love in our youth and another whole different genre of games. Enjoy!

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