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  • taus01taus01 MunichPosts: 1,352Member
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by DarSepki
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by DarSepki

     

    Please consider the following FACTS logically before posting further:

    1. The victim has made a public post. In it, he tells people that he is at fault, and people should drop it.

    2. The blogger, and elected community representative, has never spoken to the victim before or after he made his post publicly shunning the scammers. The victim's attempt to speak to this blogger have been ignored.

    3. The blogger who started this now is refusing to speak to anyone who doesn't absolutely agree with his position. He has been openly rude against anyone who wants to bring up the 'side issues' that have been raised because of this.

     

     

    You say that It does not matter if the victim thinks it was fine. It does not matter if the victim agreed to take part in it.

    Let me ask you this:

    • Would it be fine to hit your spouse because she tells the police that she fell down the stairs and always comes bck to you?
    • Would it be ok to rape a woman because she dresses sexy and provokes it, while afterwards denying it happened.
    • Is it fine to kill someone because he asks you to do it.
    • Is it normal to speed up and run over a pedestrian because he knew what he was getting into when he crossed the street.

    Guess what? That is not how it works and thank god there are not many people like you out there because then we would be truly F#$*@!

    The law and morals also exists to protect those that can not or are not willing to protect themselves. Be that because they are mentally challenged, psychologically traumatized, scared or simply not aware what they got involved with.

    Think about that before you continue to post more of your crazy thoughts.

     

    None of your examples are not even close to what you THINK has happened here. You have escalated the situation to match what happened here to every other immoral act. So I will not answer them. But in the effort of matching your absurd argument I shall ask my own:

    • Do you think it is acceptable to escalate this argument into a physical confrontation? Or wish physical harm come to those who do not believe in your viewpoint? (There have been several examples of people who share your viewpoint who have crossed this line.)
    • Do you believe in a legal system based on due justice? (It's CCP they can do whatever they want or need. But as all your questions deal with outside of game this one applies)
    • Do you think it is OK dismiss other viewpoints because they hurt your feelings.
    Your entire point is based on the fact that Erotic 1 has committed an immoral act. That has not yet been proven, certainly not within the case that involved Sohkar. If you understand the concepts and rules of the bonus room you wouldn't post with such hostility. Fact is you are only contributing to the anger and hate that has been spreading around because of this.

    I have no idea why you try to deflect the real issue other than that you are truly oblivious to the fact that what was done by Erotica 1 was both morally wrong and judically wrong.

    That is your opinion, not everyone agrees with it.  In fact I have found this story posted all over the Internet and most agree that Sohkar was the one that was out of line.   He chose to participate.  He could have stopped at any time.  Nothing you say can change that fact.    Nobody put a gun to his head or tied him to a chair.   There was no torture - and you really need to stop using  that word.   It was the furthest thing from torture.

    A human being was taken to the breaking point for personal amusement and his family was dragged into it and made fun of. Erotica 1 then used the recordings to publicly shame the individual by posting them on a public website for only one purpose, to make fun of the individual and gain some form of respect amongst other similarly disturbed individuals.

    He wasn't taken to no breaking point.   He finally realized, finally...that he had been scammed.   This wasn't his first time around the block in this game in regards to being scammed.    Erotica 1 had scammed him 2 times before.   So stop making excuses for poor little old Sohkar.

    Erotica 1 showed no empathy towards the victim even after 2 hours of pointless psychological abuse and ridicule by not only making fun of his wife but also using the victims desperation and vulnerability to prolong the humiliation even further.

    Pointless psychological abuse.  You really like to sensationalize this don't you.   Hello, are you Ripard Teg?

    These actions are consistent with high functioning sociopaths. They present themselves as something they are not, they mimic feeling and use empathy to lure their prey.

    So your a board certified psychiatrist?

    It does not matter that Sohkar or any other victims in this so called "bonus room" have agreed to the rules or if they agreed to the recording or the public broadcast of them. It's of no consequence just like in the examples i gave in my last post.

    Right, lets not hold people accountable for their own actions.   Instead, let's make it seem like they are incapable of making sound judgement calls - let's go further and make it sound like the player behind the keyboard has an IQ of less that 80.    But totally forget that this guy is an air traffic controller in real life.   That he is a grown adult, that has to make adult type decisions every day.   Let's just neglect all that.

    It can also easily be demonstrated that not only psychological but also financial damage was done too, since the in game currency ISK is indirectly linked to real world currency via the buying and selling of so called PLEX inside and outside of the game.

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but even CCP says items in game have no real world value.    Plus, everything in game is owned by CCP...go read the EULA.   You as a player own nothing in game.

    PS: As for your deflecting questions. It also does not matter what other people have done before or after this. It does not matter what viewpoints someone has or what CCP thinks. No one is dismissing anything or has hurt feelings. It's irrelevant to the fact that what was done is wrong.

    The only wrong that was done was a player(the guy that got scammed) broke EVE Online's EULA when he went into a rage and started tossing racial slurs around, threatening people with harm, and threatening peoples family members with harm   Those "are" clear violations of EVE's EULA.  

     

    Let me know when you have any real counter arguments and stop being delusional.

    I never used the word torture for example so get your act together and snap out of it!

    Yes, we do not hold people accountable for their actions if they are the victims of abuse or other psychological mistreatment. This is standard procedure in spouse abuse cases where the victim usually protects the abuser. There is NO EXCUSE for hitting your spouse it is simply assault.

    You however desperately keep trying to find excuses for the assault on this person and his family by a sociopath and his friends. There is something wrong with you if you can not understand that simple concept.

    I will ignore all the rest of your strawman arguments, deflections and feeble attempt at blaming the victim because frankly i am getting tired to explain this.

    You claim a strawman argument after you say something is wrong with him based on your own subjective opinion... let me put it to you this way: The only person wrong here is the one claiming idiocies when both the "victim" and the "sociopath" say otherwise.

    It does not matter if the victim says he was fine with the abuse. It's still abuse, it is still defamation and it is still wrong.

    You can go and ask any judge right now if he would let an abuser go free if the victim says it is fine that he gets abused. We both know what the answer of the judge will be.

    It's quite clear you are refusing to understand although i am pretty sure you know exactly what i mean and you know exactly that what was done was wrong. Admitting you are wrong does not make you look weak, it's the opposite.

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • uidLuc1duidLuc1d Marietta, GAPosts: 196Member Common
    I'm always surprised to learn that EVE is still a "thing"... beyond being a great screen saver.
  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by DarSepki
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by DarSepki

     

    Please consider the following FACTS logically before posting further:

    1. The victim has made a public post. In it, he tells people that he is at fault, and people should drop it.

    2. The blogger, and elected community representative, has never spoken to the victim before or after he made his post publicly shunning the scammers. The victim's attempt to speak to this blogger have been ignored.

    3. The blogger who started this now is refusing to speak to anyone who doesn't absolutely agree with his position. He has been openly rude against anyone who wants to bring up the 'side issues' that have been raised because of this.

     

     

    You say that It does not matter if the victim thinks it was fine. It does not matter if the victim agreed to take part in it.

    Let me ask you this:

    • Would it be fine to hit your spouse because she tells the police that she fell down the stairs and always comes bck to you?
    • Would it be ok to rape a woman because she dresses sexy and provokes it, while afterwards denying it happened.
    • Is it fine to kill someone because he asks you to do it.
    • Is it normal to speed up and run over a pedestrian because he knew what he was getting into when he crossed the street.

    Guess what? That is not how it works and thank god there are not many people like you out there because then we would be truly F#$*@!

    The law and morals also exists to protect those that can not or are not willing to protect themselves. Be that because they are mentally challenged, psychologically traumatized, scared or simply not aware what they got involved with.

    Think about that before you continue to post more of your crazy thoughts.

     

    None of your examples are not even close to what you THINK has happened here. You have escalated the situation to match what happened here to every other immoral act. So I will not answer them. But in the effort of matching your absurd argument I shall ask my own:

    • Do you think it is acceptable to escalate this argument into a physical confrontation? Or wish physical harm come to those who do not believe in your viewpoint? (There have been several examples of people who share your viewpoint who have crossed this line.)
    • Do you believe in a legal system based on due justice? (It's CCP they can do whatever they want or need. But as all your questions deal with outside of game this one applies)
    • Do you think it is OK dismiss other viewpoints because they hurt your feelings.
    Your entire point is based on the fact that Erotic 1 has committed an immoral act. That has not yet been proven, certainly not within the case that involved Sohkar. If you understand the concepts and rules of the bonus room you wouldn't post with such hostility. Fact is you are only contributing to the anger and hate that has been spreading around because of this.

    I have no idea why you try to deflect the real issue other than that you are truly oblivious to the fact that what was done by Erotica 1 was both morally wrong and judically wrong.

    That is your opinion, not everyone agrees with it.  In fact I have found this story posted all over the Internet and most agree that Sohkar was the one that was out of line.   He chose to participate.  He could have stopped at any time.  Nothing you say can change that fact.    Nobody put a gun to his head or tied him to a chair.   There was no torture - and you really need to stop using  that word.   It was the furthest thing from torture.

    A human being was taken to the breaking point for personal amusement and his family was dragged into it and made fun of. Erotica 1 then used the recordings to publicly shame the individual by posting them on a public website for only one purpose, to make fun of the individual and gain some form of respect amongst other similarly disturbed individuals.

    He wasn't taken to no breaking point.   He finally realized, finally...that he had been scammed.   This wasn't his first time around the block in this game in regards to being scammed.    Erotica 1 had scammed him 2 times before.   So stop making excuses for poor little old Sohkar.

    Erotica 1 showed no empathy towards the victim even after 2 hours of pointless psychological abuse and ridicule by not only making fun of his wife but also using the victims desperation and vulnerability to prolong the humiliation even further.

    Pointless psychological abuse.  You really like to sensationalize this don't you.   Hello, are you Ripard Teg?

    These actions are consistent with high functioning sociopaths. They present themselves as something they are not, they mimic feeling and use empathy to lure their prey.

    So your a board certified psychiatrist?

    It does not matter that Sohkar or any other victims in this so called "bonus room" have agreed to the rules or if they agreed to the recording or the public broadcast of them. It's of no consequence just like in the examples i gave in my last post.

    Right, lets not hold people accountable for their own actions.   Instead, let's make it seem like they are incapable of making sound judgement calls - let's go further and make it sound like the player behind the keyboard has an IQ of less that 80.    But totally forget that this guy is an air traffic controller in real life.   That he is a grown adult, that has to make adult type decisions every day.   Let's just neglect all that.

    It can also easily be demonstrated that not only psychological but also financial damage was done too, since the in game currency ISK is indirectly linked to real world currency via the buying and selling of so called PLEX inside and outside of the game.

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but even CCP says items in game have no real world value.    Plus, everything in game is owned by CCP...go read the EULA.   You as a player own nothing in game.

    PS: As for your deflecting questions. It also does not matter what other people have done before or after this. It does not matter what viewpoints someone has or what CCP thinks. No one is dismissing anything or has hurt feelings. It's irrelevant to the fact that what was done is wrong.

    The only wrong that was done was a player(the guy that got scammed) broke EVE Online's EULA when he went into a rage and started tossing racial slurs around, threatening people with harm, and threatening peoples family members with harm   Those "are" clear violations of EVE's EULA.  

     

    Let me know when you have any real counter arguments and stop being delusional.

    I never used the word torture for example so get your act together and snap out of it!

    Yes, we do not hold people accountable for their actions if they are the victims of abuse or other psychological mistreatment. This is standard procedure in spouse abuse cases where the victim usually protects the abuser. There is NO EXCUSE for hitting your spouse it is simply assault.

    You however desperately keep trying to find excuses for the assault on this person and his family by a sociopath and his friends. There is something wrong with you if you can not understand that simple concept.

    I will ignore all the rest of your strawman arguments, deflections and feeble attempt at blaming the victim because frankly i am getting tired to explain this.

    You claim a strawman argument after you say something is wrong with him based on your own subjective opinion... let me put it to you this way: The only person wrong here is the one claiming idiocies when both the "victim" and the "sociopath" say otherwise.

    It does not matter if the victim says he was fine with the abuse. It's still abuse, it is still defamation and it is still wrong.

    It's quite clear you are refusing to understand although i am pretty sure you know exactly what i mean and you know exactly that what was done was wrong. Admitting you are wrong does not make you look weak, it's the opposite.

    Then you must be an extremely weak person to keep this up... the "victim" has no relationship to the "sociopath" beyond playing the same game, not the same circles, not the same area of interest, never even met in real life so you keep pushing to claim that somehow the "victim" is wrong in pretty much stating that what you claim to be abuse is nothing of the sort. This isn't cyberbullying or anything even remotely close but you keep trying to make a case out of thin air to not have to admit you are catastrophically wrong in this case almost as bad as the OP who openly admits wanting to bodily harm the "sociopath" for things which while somewhat morally reprehensible aren't that uncommon or that out of place in the world we live in ( you think 2-3 hours of that sort of stuff is bad? take a look at what you would likely call systemic torture of teenagers at the hands of their own peers during high-school ).

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  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 801Member Uncommon
    Good thing these assholes are an outlier and the community in general finds this shit disgusting.
  • taus01taus01 MunichPosts: 1,352Member
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by taus01

     

    Let me know when you have any real counter arguments and stop being delusional.

    I never used the word torture for example so get your act together and snap out of it!

    Yes, we do not hold people accountable for their actions if they are the victims of abuse or other psychological mistreatment. This is standard procedure in spouse abuse cases where the victim usually protects the abuser. There is NO EXCUSE for hitting your spouse it is simply assault.

    You however desperately keep trying to find excuses for the assault on this person and his family by a sociopath and his friends. There is something wrong with you if you can not understand that simple concept.

    I will ignore all the rest of your strawman arguments, deflections and feeble attempt at blaming the victim because frankly i am getting tired to explain this.

    You claim a strawman argument after you say something is wrong with him based on your own subjective opinion... let me put it to you this way: The only person wrong here is the one claiming idiocies when both the "victim" and the "sociopath" say otherwise.

    It does not matter if the victim says he was fine with the abuse. It's still abuse, it is still defamation and it is still wrong.

    It's quite clear you are refusing to understand although i am pretty sure you know exactly what i mean and you know exactly that what was done was wrong. Admitting you are wrong does not make you look weak, it's the opposite.

    Then you must be an extremely weak person to keep this up... the "victim" has no relationship to the "sociopath" beyond playing the same game, not the same circles, not the same area of interest, never even met in real life so you keep pushing to claim that somehow the "victim" is wrong in pretty much stating that what you claim to be abuse is nothing of the sort. This isn't cyberbullying or anything even remotely close but you keep trying to make a case out of thin air to not have to admit you are catastrophically wrong in this case almost as bad as the OP who openly admits wanting to bodily harm the "sociopath" for things which while somewhat morally reprehensible aren't that uncommon or that out of place in the world we live in ( you think 2-3 hours of that sort of stuff is bad? take a look at what you would likely call systemic torture of teenagers at the hands of their own peers during high-school ).

    It does not matter if they have a relationship. People get abused by people they never met, i bet that is a concept you also don't understand.

    So you are saying that it is fine because there are worse things happening during high-school?

    You straw man me again with the OP. I am not the OP and i don't care what he does or says, it does not invalidate my argument no matter how much you wish it would.

    I have nothing further to say to you because you clearly have no capacity for rational thought. I am tired of this conversation so this is my last reply. Feel free to have the last word. I could not care less.

    Have a nice day.

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by taus01

     

    Let me know when you have any real counter arguments and stop being delusional.

    I never used the word torture for example so get your act together and snap out of it!

    Yes, we do not hold people accountable for their actions if they are the victims of abuse or other psychological mistreatment. This is standard procedure in spouse abuse cases where the victim usually protects the abuser. There is NO EXCUSE for hitting your spouse it is simply assault.

    You however desperately keep trying to find excuses for the assault on this person and his family by a sociopath and his friends. There is something wrong with you if you can not understand that simple concept.

    I will ignore all the rest of your strawman arguments, deflections and feeble attempt at blaming the victim because frankly i am getting tired to explain this.

    You claim a strawman argument after you say something is wrong with him based on your own subjective opinion... let me put it to you this way: The only person wrong here is the one claiming idiocies when both the "victim" and the "sociopath" say otherwise.

    It does not matter if the victim says he was fine with the abuse. It's still abuse, it is still defamation and it is still wrong.

    It's quite clear you are refusing to understand although i am pretty sure you know exactly what i mean and you know exactly that what was done was wrong. Admitting you are wrong does not make you look weak, it's the opposite.

    Then you must be an extremely weak person to keep this up... the "victim" has no relationship to the "sociopath" beyond playing the same game, not the same circles, not the same area of interest, never even met in real life so you keep pushing to claim that somehow the "victim" is wrong in pretty much stating that what you claim to be abuse is nothing of the sort. This isn't cyberbullying or anything even remotely close but you keep trying to make a case out of thin air to not have to admit you are catastrophically wrong in this case almost as bad as the OP who openly admits wanting to bodily harm the "sociopath" for things which while somewhat morally reprehensible aren't that uncommon or that out of place in the world we live in ( you think 2-3 hours of that sort of stuff is bad? take a look at what you would likely call systemic torture of teenagers at the hands of their own peers during high-school ).

    It does not matter if they have a relationship. People get abused by people they never met, i bet that is a concept you also don't understand.

    So you are saying that it is fine because there are worse things happening during high-school?

    You straw man me again with the OP. I am not the OP and i don't care what he does or says, it does not invalidate my argument no matter how much you wish it would.

    I have nothing further to say to you because you clearly have no capacity for rational thought. I am tired of this conversation so this is my last reply. Feel free to have the last word. I could not care less.

    Have a nice day.

    I think you should look up the term "rational" on your way out because you prove nothing other than a lack of comprehension to the situation. The situation can best be likened to how high-school sports enthusiasts pick on those with significantly less physical prowess by mercilessly pointing out their flaws but unlike that situation the one in EVE is A) non-damaging to both parties in any significant way ( you think someone from EVE or any other game will care about this recording in 2-3 months? this without keeping into mind the fact that the "victim" has come forward and admitted his part in the events which will likely lead to no one even remembering him in a negative light due to this event ) and B) was not and never will be on the same level.

    Now if you want to continue claiming your opinion is anything other than a subjective mess based on your own feelings towards what you heard in the audio recording it is ok but I strongly advise you not to look into actual cyberbulling incidents because someone so sensitive may actually wretch from those (one thing to mock someone's disability and completely another to demolish their sense of being utterly, you need to learn the difference between them and see who is a victim and who was just made a fool of and learned from the experience).

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  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Greencastle, INPosts: 2,594Member Uncommon
    You think the NSA spying on your cell phone is bad. The Foggy bottom boys love this game.
  • BizkitNLBizkitNL NetherlandsPosts: 2,280Member Common

    Why am I seeing a guy trying to rationalize what happened and even pointing a finger at the guy sucked into this scam?

    Are you kidding me?

    10
  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by BizkitNL

    Why am I seeing a guy trying to rationalize what happened and even pointing a finger at the guy sucked into this scam?

    Are you kidding me?

    No one is rationalizing anything just merely pointing out objective facts vs feelings ( the dude was on his 3rd of 4th run through the same scan, different times, when he got into the "bonus room", he was told he could stop at any time, he gave all his in-game stuff to play the bonus room to a man he knew was a scammer and last by no means least: he took a game far too seriously even yelling at his own family, I am not saying Erotica is innocent but in this case it was a tango not a torture session as some people try to make it out).

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  • LorgarnLorgarn SwedenPosts: 371Member Uncommon

    As a longtime EVE player, let me just say this: EVE wouldn't be EVE without scamming, griefing, extortion, ganking, stealing, etc. I wouldn't trade it away for anything, it's what makes EVE the best experience in the MMO/Sandbox genre there is.

     

    However, this is taking things outside of the game and on to a personal level. This is complete abuse, this is a truly disgusting behavior and should definitely be punished by CCP. Keep it inside the game, keep it in the universe. I'm glad he got banned, not for him making a gazillion of isk through scamming; but for him going out of his way to abuse and harass people on this level.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by kitarad

    Erotica1 banned Sokhar not. Res ipsa loquitur

    Yes, it proves that if you have a direct line to petition CCP you can get another player banned.   It also proves that CCP doesn't abide by their own rules.   It also proves that CCP has a double standard.

     

    Or it shows that if attention is drawn to behavior that CCP finds objectionable, they will take action, especially if that behavior will have a potential negative impact on how Eve is perceived by new or existing players.

     

    It seems possible that CCP did not intend to allow the behavior shown under their current rule set and enforcement, so they changed their rule set and enforcement.  It's an irrational organization that is unwilling to adjust their operating parameters when they receive new information that shows their existing operating parameters to be ineffective at achieving their goals.

     

    The whole event could be an example of how social norms aren't a concrete thing, but something that changes depending on the environment and the people involved.  Erotica 1 believes they are engaging in allowed behavior, because they have not been sanctioned in the past.  Those viewing from the outside see Erotica 1's behavior from several different perspectives.  Everything Erotica 1 was doing is deviant from norms and should be sanctioned, Everything Erotica 1 was doing is allowed by the rule set of Eve, so no sanctions should have happened and finally some mixture of the two, where some behavior is allowed within the rule set of Eve, but some behavior falls outside of allowable norms and should be sanctioned.  Sohkar is seen as a victim by some, as an active collaborator in the event by others.  Sohkar it seems would just like to forget the whole thing and move on.

     

    The truth is even a little more complex than all these different perspectives.  People behave different ways in different environments.  At the same time, people are modifying their environments as their environments influence their behavior.  Finally, people have all these internal states, thoughts, and feelings that influence their behavior, while their behavior is influencing all their internal states, thoughts and feelings.  Is Erotica 1 truly at fault here, when CCP controls a large part of the environment?  Doesn't Erotica 1 have some responsibility for their own internal state, and the environment they have control of?  Is sohkar really a victim of Erotica 1, or a victim of their own internal states that allowed them to not avoid the Bonus Room experience?  Didn't Erotica 1 setup the environment that influenced sohkar in the Bonus Room?  Even the options to back out are part of the setup*.  That's why there are people arguing vehemently from at least three different sides of this whole thing.  It's really not a simple, black and white issue.

     

    Anyway, CCP is making an attempt to modify the environment by demonstrating that there are potential consequences for certain behaviors, and not others.  Perhaps Erotica 1 deserved a ban, perhaps not, but it certainly sets the environment to a slightly different norm, where scamming is fine, but there are limits to what's allowed when scamming someone.  It's also an example that everyone can listen to, so it should have much more of an impact that banning dozens of people that have never had their scam sessions posted for people to hear.

     

    * It's not really an option to back out.  It increases confidence in the people being scammed, drawing them further in.  Just in case anyone is reading this and is actually interested.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • DarthconnorDarthconnor Saint James, MOPosts: 61Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Its Eve.........let it go
    Its the only mmo where you can set your own rules and scam the shit out of people.
    Plenty of carebear mmo's out there that offer some sort of safe harbor where bad stuff dont happen.

    The best story's always come from Eve Online be it negative or breaking records, CCP makes it happen and their playerbase makes it happen.
    Does it suck to lose everything ? yes it does....but so is the nature of the beast.
    Never ever trust anyone....not even the guy you spend playing 5 years with as you lose evrything you have in a blink of an eye.


    Wish there were more mmo's like this as it seems CCP still monopoly after a decade !

    Scamming people in an online game and those ppl losing it all isn't really my main focus as i kinda looked over this article. I mean its Eve and they been allowing that kinda crap for quite awhile. If you review this game at all you can find a dozen or more different articles that all talk about Eve allowing scams and alot of other stuff that would get you banned in other games. So you play Eve you are open to being exposed to that kind of behavior.

    That said once he turned over all his items and cash the scam should have been over and done with. The scammer got his prize and it didnt need to be taken any further but it was. What Eve should look at is the fact that they mentally tortured another player long after they had already scammed him and should have moved on. You play the game and get scammed its on you but when you have ppl doing this kind of low life crap they are in need of repercussions. Crap like this can lead people to do harm to themselves in real life and that what should be the factor for games even ones like Eve to make them respond to these activities. Screwing someone in a game world is one thing but taking it into the real world with harrassment is quite another. Im surprised with some of the stories being told by Eve players noone has filed a lawsuit against other players or even the Company itself.

    Dunno if its over reaction on my part but when you start taking it to the Real world is when things like this should be addressed and addressed quickly and harshly.

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Darthconnor  Im surprised with some of the stories being told by Eve players noone has filed a lawsuit against other players or even the Company itself.

     

    The company is not legally responsible for actions taken outside of the game.

    For example, Goons+Solar have IT people onboard who ddos Teamspeak servers and known IPs of main fleet commanders of the opponent to offline them and increase their winning odds in a major fight.

    CCP can't be held responsible for such actions.

     

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by Darthconnor  Im surprised with some of the stories being told by Eve players noone has filed a lawsuit against other players or even the Company itself.

     

    The company is not legally responsible for actions taken outside of the game.

    For example, Goons+Solar have IT people onboard who ddos Teamspeak servers and known IPs of main fleet commanders of the opponent to offline them and increase their winning odds in a major fight.

    CCP can't be held responsible for such actions.

     

    The GIA was doing much more objectionable things in the day ( some even went as far as planning to wreck power cables to ensure enemy FCs or titans couldn't come onto the field in a major fight though I do not know if they ever put those plans into effect though the russians likely have in the past ).

    image
  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Darthconnor
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Its Eve.........let it go
    Its the only mmo where you can set your own rules and scam the shit out of people.
    Plenty of carebear mmo's out there that offer some sort of safe harbor where bad stuff dont happen.

    The best story's always come from Eve Online be it negative or breaking records, CCP makes it happen and their playerbase makes it happen.
    Does it suck to lose everything ? yes it does....but so is the nature of the beast.
    Never ever trust anyone....not even the guy you spend playing 5 years with as you lose evrything you have in a blink of an eye.


    Wish there were more mmo's like this as it seems CCP still monopoly after a decade !

    Scamming people in an online game and those ppl losing it all isn't really my main focus as i kinda looked over this article. I mean its Eve and they been allowing that kinda crap for quite awhile. If you review this game at all you can find a dozen or more different articles that all talk about Eve allowing scams and alot of other stuff that would get you banned in other games. So you play Eve you are open to being exposed to that kind of behavior.

    That said once he turned over all his items and cash the scam should have been over and done with. The scammer got his prize and it didnt need to be taken any further but it was. What Eve should look at is the fact that they mentally tortured another player long after they had already scammed him and should have moved on. You play the game and get scammed its on you but when you have ppl doing this kind of low life crap they are in need of repercussions. Crap like this can lead people to do harm to themselves in real life and that what should be the factor for games even ones like Eve to make them respond to these activities. Screwing someone in a game world is one thing but taking it into the real world with harrassment is quite another. Im surprised with some of the stories being told by Eve players noone has filed a lawsuit against other players or even the Company itself.

    Dunno if its over reaction on my part but when you start taking it to the Real world is when things like this should be addressed and addressed quickly and harshly.

     

    This is essentially CCP's view of the affair. They had no problem at all with the scam part.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • NobadeeftwNobadeeftw Houston, TXPosts: 128Member

    This doesn't really surprise me at all.   Video games in general attract sociopaths and sadists in droves.  I can go to any MMORPG and find dozens of them immediately, without any effort.  EVE simply introduces an environment where those people thrive due to a lack of concern or moderation.  If you have ever visited the EVE forums, you know how fiercely the "community" there defends the lack of restrictions in the game.  The community use CCP's lack of concern for the abuses that take place with their customers as approval by CCP to do whatever you please.  

    I wouldn't put it past an EVE player to find another players home address, barge into their house in the middle of the night, rape their family and murder them all and the community responds with, "It's part of the game."  I know you are thinking, that's a bit extreme; but, if there is no bar, what's to stop people from going from one extreme to the next?

    There are many things I enjoy about EVE; but, the community isn't one of them.  I've played sandbox games in the past that had amazing communities and things were significantly more balanced compared to EVE; but, like most games, eventually the companies that make them become detached and the product degrades.  EVE doesn't have to be a universe where paranoia is reciprocated everywhere you go.  You can't even speak in local chat without fear of someone harassing you.  I suspect a lot of long term players probably go to therapy sessions or have bodies buried in their backyard.  This is what CCP seems to think "works" though; so, they keep it going.

    I know the population of the game has gradually increased over the past decade; but, not by much.  Even a crummy taco stand is going to gradually increase it's customer base over time, that doesn't make it a good taco stand, just a convenient one.  Anyone know any other sandbox sci-fi MMOs out right now remotely comparable to EVE?  I don't, which is the problem.  No competition, means CCP is free to allow whatever to happen, because there are no consequences.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Nobadeeftw

    This doesn't really surprise me at all.   Video games in general attract sociopaths and sadists in droves.  I can go to any MMORPG and find dozens of them immediately, without any effort.  EVE simply introduces an environment where those people thrive due to a lack of concern or moderation.  If you have ever visited the EVE forums, you know how fiercely the "community" there defends the lack of restrictions in the game.  The community use CCP's lack of concern for the abuses that take place with their customers as approval by CCP to do whatever you please.  

    I wouldn't put it past an EVE player to find another players home address, barge into their house in the middle of the night, rape their family and murder them all and the community responds with, "It's part of the game."  I know you are thinking, that's a bit extreme; but, if there is no bar, what's to stop people from going from one extreme to the next?

    There are many things I enjoy about EVE; but, the community isn't one of them.  I've played sandbox games in the past that had amazing communities and things were significantly more balanced compared to EVE; but, like most games, eventually the companies that make them become detached and the product degrades.  EVE doesn't have to be a universe where paranoia is reciprocated everywhere you go.  You can't even speak in local chat without fear of someone harassing you.  I suspect a lot of long term players probably go to therapy sessions or have bodies buried in their backyard.  This is what CCP seems to think "works" though; so, they keep it going.

    I know the population of the game has gradually increased over the past decade; but, not by much.  Even a crummy taco stand is going to gradually increase it's customer base over time, that doesn't make it a good taco stand, just a convenient one.  Anyone know any other sandbox sci-fi MMOs out right now remotely comparable to EVE?  I don't, which is the problem.  No competition, means CCP is free to allow whatever to happen, because there are no consequences.

    Nice agenda you have there, shame if someone were to point it out...

    Btw: The reason EVE works isn't because it is the only one of its kind in terms of sandbox SF MMOs, but because for whatever you can subjectively cook up to throw at it, and you do that allot in your post btw, it is objectively a good to great game.

     

    Also FYI population went from 10-15k pre and post downtime (online pop) to around 30-45k at peak, try not to let this fact though stop you from continuing with your taco stand analogue... sounds like you ate some raw meat from one though.

    image
  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Nobadeeftw

    This doesn't really surprise me at all.   Video games in general attract sociopaths and sadists in droves.  I can go to any MMORPG and find dozens of them immediately, without any effort.  EVE simply introduces an environment where those people thrive due to a lack of concern or moderation.  If you have ever visited the EVE forums, you know how fiercely the "community" there defends the lack of restrictions in the game.  The community use CCP's lack of concern for the abuses that take place with their customers as approval by CCP to do whatever you please.  

    I wouldn't put it past an EVE player to find another players home address, barge into their house in the middle of the night, rape their family and murder them all and the community responds with, "It's part of the game."  I know you are thinking, that's a bit extreme; but, if there is no bar, what's to stop people from going from one extreme to the next?

    There are many things I enjoy about EVE; but, the community isn't one of them.  I've played sandbox games in the past that had amazing communities and things were significantly more balanced compared to EVE; but, like most games, eventually the companies that make them become detached and the product degrades.  EVE doesn't have to be a universe where paranoia is reciprocated everywhere you go.  You can't even speak in local chat without fear of someone harassing you.  I suspect a lot of long term players probably go to therapy sessions or have bodies buried in their backyard.  This is what CCP seems to think "works" though; so, they keep it going.

    I know the population of the game has gradually increased over the past decade; but, not by much.  Even a crummy taco stand is going to gradually increase it's customer base over time, that doesn't make it a good taco stand, just a convenient one.  Anyone know any other sandbox sci-fi MMOs out right now remotely comparable to EVE?  I don't, which is the problem.  No competition, means CCP is free to allow whatever to happen, because there are no consequences.

     That's a nice chain of reasoning, but rather inconveniently for your hypothesis, CCP already banned this guy.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • MauriceMacouilleMauriceMacouille gdgdfgPosts: 8Member

    Were it not for Ripard, CCP would not have banned the dude. Let's also note that the other "escrow agents" were not banned, while they were as vicious and despicable as Erotica1.

    It´s mind-boggling that such actions are actively condoned and passively accepted in a fucking videogame. Those people only use it as a platform to get a kick out of making random guys miserable and witnessing them meltdown IRL. Does it have something to do with any happening in New Eden? No, it´s blatant RL harassment.

    I really hope CCP goes bankrupt, they deserve no less for breeding such a toxic community.

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,578Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MauriceMacouille

    Were it not for Ripard, CCP would not have banned the dude. Let's also note that the other "escrow agents" were not banned, while they were as vicious and despicable as Erotica1.

    It´s mind-boggling that such actions are actively condoned and passively accepted in a fucking videogame. Those people only use it as a platform to get a kick out of making random guys miserable and witnessing them meltdown IRL. Does it have something to do with any happening in New Eden? No, it´s blatant RL harassment.

    I really hope CCP goes bankrupt, they deserve no less for breeding such a toxic community.

    No....then these people will move into other games and complain and grief.

  • uggeh12uggeh12 Valencia, CAPosts: 44Member

    Thought I would throw this out there, this is a post made on the official forums by the "victim", sohkar:

    "i just got off the TS with erotica 1 and i did this to try to put a end to all this stuff people are putting out there and get how i felt about everything. I think all you people need to drop it. the "bonus room" happened over a month ago. Ask yourself why is it now just coming out now? if it wasnt for the article written about it no one would know or care. I know some of you said its not about erotica 1 or myself and you maybe right but what is it about then that people got scam it happens all the time even in RL. I got scammed and made an fool of myself in the process he did not ask me to do anything that would personalize me to people i dont know other then by my voice. Scamming and bonus rooms are not the problem until it makes someone hurt then selfs or others til then you may not agree with mine bumping or scamming then dont do it. Just because you dont agree with it doesnt make it a crime"

    This whole fiasco is just a political move by a member of the CSM(EVE's player elected council) named Ripard Teg. He is using sohkar as his unwilling Joe the Plumber. sohkar has also said that because of the blog post Ripard made and all the attention the story has gotten that he has been kicked from his corp and ostracized in the EVE community.

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by uggeh12

    Thought I would throw this out there, this is a post made on the official forums by the "victim", sohkar:

    "i just got off the TS with erotica 1 and i did this to try to put a end to all this stuff people are putting out there and get how i felt about everything. I think all you people need to drop it. the "bonus room" happened over a month ago. Ask yourself why is it now just coming out now? if it wasnt for the article written about it no one would know or care. I know some of you said its not about erotica 1 or myself and you maybe right but what is it about then that people got scam it happens all the time even in RL. I got scammed and made an fool of myself in the process he did not ask me to do anything that would personalize me to people i dont know other then by my voice. Scamming and bonus rooms are not the problem until it makes someone hurt then selfs or others til then you may not agree with mine bumping or scamming then dont do it. Just because you dont agree with it doesnt make it a crime"

    This whole fiasco is just a political move by a member of the CSM(EVE's player elected council) named Ripard Teg. He is using sohkar as his unwilling Joe the Plumber. sohkar has also said that because of the blog post Ripard made and all the attention the story has gotten that he has been kicked from his corp and ostracized in the EVE community.

    You are right lets just wait till someone either hurts themselves or others over a video game due to bullying and harrassement. Then only we should raise our voice against it.

  • MauriceMacouilleMauriceMacouille gdgdfgPosts: 8Member
    Wow how surprising, a gullible and psychologically manipulable individual being coaxed by his harassers into trying to whitewash them!
  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,069Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MauriceMacouille

    Were it not for Ripard, CCP would not have banned the dude. Let's also note that the other "escrow agents" were not banned, while they were as vicious and despicable as Erotica1.

    It´s mind-boggling that such actions are actively condoned and passively accepted in a fucking videogame. Those people only use it as a platform to get a kick out of making random guys miserable and witnessing them meltdown IRL. Does it have something to do with any happening in New Eden? No, it´s blatant RL harassment.

    I really hope CCP goes bankrupt, they deserve no less for breeding such a toxic community.

    i think you played wrong game , if you have played EVE

     

     

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • IneveraskforthisIneveraskforthis Macros 7Posts: 374Member

    I like the ban, it gave him a taste of his own medicine.

    However why the hell would people hand over their entire properties to some strangers in the first place?

    and secondly i am surprise people get this emotional after begin scammed, seriously this is just a game I got my MMO accounts hacked numerous and i just walked away, it happens and it's just a game.

    Find another mmo or any games and carry on.

     

    But still it is very satisfying to see a scam bag gets ban, although he will mostly likely create another account and keep playing, btw i am amazed these people spent hours to "toy" with the victim in the TS.

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