Originally posted by Thorkune I too hated beta. I played the first weekend and have since given my other keys away. I believe I will now give up on mmo's and will go to consoles exclusively. It's sad too, because I started gaming with an mmo.
don't give up yet idk if you've tried Archeage but atm...best sandpark out, not entirely the quest driven crap most have...the repopulations writings give me hope as well...for now, if you dig stealth games i recommend mark of the ninja...pretty kick ass, also rust, just get on a low pop server
What boggles my mind is how the pro-ESO anti WildStar folks can't see that ESO is a hubhopper game with no innovation either. At least WildStar doesn't take itself so deadly serious like ESO. I play games to have fun not to have a second job that makes playing feel like a chore.
Of course then again I will never understand people bitching about having tons of quests and things to do... especially when the vast majority of them are optional. I just don't get the desire to just roam around and randomly kill shit, but doubly can't understand the mentality that doesn't realize that in most games WS and WoW included, that you can still just roam around and randomly kill shit.
Originally posted by ThomasN7 The crazy thing is that the devs believe they have a hit on their hands. How crazy is that ?
Maybe they do.
Considering WoW a MMO designed for stupid, lazy, casual non-gamers was the most successful mmo of all time.
Honestly it comes down to marketing. WoW was the pet rock of MMO's, a craptastic product with insane marketing.
EVERY developer since WOW has been chasing the golden goose that was WoW's success, but like idiots they continue to believe WoW was successful because of game design. They continue to swing and miss with clone after clone, because the success was NEVER about the game. The success was 100% about the marketing.
They blitzkrieged marketing.
The game was EVERYWHERE.
It was advertised in pretty much every publication from American Sportsman to Cosmopolitan. It was on every daytime and late night talk show. It had skits on Saturday Night Live and Southpark. It was in every sitcom, hell it was even in daytime soap operas, and political ads.
They painted you as uncool, if you were not playing WoW. They painted it as the social hookup of the generation.
WoW brought thousands of women and girls into gaming that had never even considered online gaming before.
However this success was not about game design, it was about spending mega millions on marketing.
Today game studios, are too stupid or greedy to allocate half the development budget to marketing so they sit there scratching their heads wondering why their game is not as popular as WoW.
As soon as someone calls WoW a crap game or a crap product I immediately tune out their opinion.
Even if you absolutely hate WoW and what it did to the genre, you really can't call the game crap or infer that it is a crappy product. It is beautifully designed an amazing amount of work has gone into making a detailed and huge world that continues to be lovingly added on to. You will not find a more polished or supported MMO. So it is just ignorant to say the game is a crap product just because it caters to the masses and not the narrow scope of your particular gaming pleasures.
WildStar is special and it will be a hit, I do not think it will nessecarily topple WoW. Now it may not be your cup of tea, but that far from makes this a bad product. I think if they pumped a little juice into advertising it could, like WoW draw in previous none gamers. It has a mass appeal that could attract none gamers or other genre gamers.
I wasn't a fan of the telegraph system initially, and you do spend most of the time staring at color patterns and not your character, but its still good fun imo.
I've had the same problem playing telegraphs instead of the game. My feeling of the game was "catch things within cones and rectangles and press a button". There was n 80's arcade title with the same gameplay.
Once i turned off my own telegraphs and lowered the transparency of the red ones it suddenly became a game.
The sad part is if you use that kind of logic, any game will seem like you are doing boring derivative things like pressing buttons and looking at shapes. The fact that you are describing playing the game in that way is a symptom of your disinterest not the cause.
Also you have the option to modify or turn off telegraphs completely.
I pre-ordered and played a few betas. In my opinion the game is improving with quite a few things (and quickly). The graphics are being optimized and already perform much better than they did last beta testing. The paths and questing feels smoother and many bugs have been fixed.
What people need to remember when comparing this game to WoW, is that when WoW originally came out there were A LOT of issues with it. WoW was not the same game back in Vanilla as it is now. There were glitches, huge sized raids that they scaled down ect...ect....It took Blizz quite some time to work out most of the kinks and make WoW the game it is today.
Personally, I enjoy Wildstar at the time being, but I am very intruiged to see where Carbine will take the game and improve on it as time passes. They do listen to their players from what I have seen, and that's a great thing to have.
My biggest problem is the graphics. Not sure what it is but it just seems hard to focus. Maybe the colors are all too similar? Everything just seems to blend together.
I pre-ordered and played a few betas. In my opinion the game is improving with quite a few things (and quickly). The graphics are being optimized and already perform much better than they did last beta testing. The paths and questing feels smoother and many bugs have been fixed.
What people need to remember when comparing this game to WoW, is that when WoW originally came out there were A LOT of issues with it. WoW was not the same game back in Vanilla as it is now. There were glitches, huge sized raids that they scaled down ect...ect....It took Blizz quite some time to work out most of the kinks and make WoW the game it is today.
Personally, I enjoy Wildstar at the time being, but I am very intruiged to see where Carbine will take the game and improve on it as time passes. They do listen to their players from what I have seen, and that's a great thing to have.
Here's the issue with that though. It doesn't really matter what WoW started with. It's what WoW is today. That's what WildsStar is competing with. WoW had 10 years to become good. WildStar simply doesn't have that kind of time. In fact, they don't have any. That's reality. Nobody cares that it's a new game. if it's not able to compete coming out of the gate, it will struggle.
I pre-ordered and played a few betas. In my opinion the game is improving with quite a few things (and quickly). The graphics are being optimized and already perform much better than they did last beta testing. The paths and questing feels smoother and many bugs have been fixed.
What people need to remember when comparing this game to WoW, is that when WoW originally came out there were A LOT of issues with it. WoW was not the same game back in Vanilla as it is now. There were glitches, huge sized raids that they scaled down ect...ect....It took Blizz quite some time to work out most of the kinks and make WoW the game it is today.
Personally, I enjoy Wildstar at the time being, but I am very intruiged to see where Carbine will take the game and improve on it as time passes. They do listen to their players from what I have seen, and that's a great thing to have.
Here's the issue with that though. It doesn't really matter what WoW started with. It's what WoW is today. That's what WildsStar is competing with. WoW had 10 years to become good. WildStar simply doesn't have that kind of time. In fact, they don't have any. That's reality. Nobody cares that it's a new game. if it's not able to compete coming out of the gate, it will struggle.
I understand that, I am just saying that the whole point of an online game is that it can grow with the players through patches, expansions ect. They are doing all they can to bring out their image of the game with the least amount of bugs and problems before launch. After they will probably start tweaking a few things here and there for many years to come.
I think Wildstar *does* have that kind of time. If subscriptions don't fare well, they will just do a cash shop thing like other mmo's and still manage to go strong for years to come. It's still an overall solid game for the people who are looking for THAT type of game. Mind you, I haven't played very far because I don't really want to replay everything on launch day so I can't really speak for higher levels...However, what I did play of was quite enjoyable.
I pre-ordered and played a few betas. In my opinion the game is improving with quite a few things (and quickly). The graphics are being optimized and already perform much better than they did last beta testing. The paths and questing feels smoother and many bugs have been fixed.
What people need to remember when comparing this game to WoW, is that when WoW originally came out there were A LOT of issues with it. WoW was not the same game back in Vanilla as it is now. There were glitches, huge sized raids that they scaled down ect...ect....It took Blizz quite some time to work out most of the kinks and make WoW the game it is today.
Personally, I enjoy Wildstar at the time being, but I am very intruiged to see where Carbine will take the game and improve on it as time passes. They do listen to their players from what I have seen, and that's a great thing to have.
Here's the issue with that though. It doesn't really matter what WoW started with. It's what WoW is today. That's what WildsStar is competing with. WoW had 10 years to become good. WildStar simply doesn't have that kind of time. In fact, they don't have any. That's reality. Nobody cares that it's a new game. if it's not able to compete coming out of the gate, it will struggle.
I understand that, I am just saying that the whole point of an online game is that it can grow with the players through patches, expansions ect. They are doing all they can to bring out their image of the game with the least amount of bugs and problems before launch. After they will probably start tweaking a few things here and there for many years to come.
I think Wildstar *does* have that kind of time. If subscriptions don't fare well, they will just do a cash shop thing like other mmo's and still manage to go strong for years to come. It's still an overall solid game for the people who are looking for THAT type of game. Mind you, I haven't played very far because I don't really want to replay everything on launch day so I can't really speak for higher levels...However, what I did play of was quite enjoyable.
I was in almost all betas of the launched mmo's after warhammer and i can say Wildstar beta is the best experience i had in every aspect. Especially as it concerns bugs despite it has 2+ months more until release date (you can compare with TESO in this matter to see the difference). It is almost bug free and the optimization is been greatly improved this weekend. I play in high settings with a Q9400 and a GTX260.
Maybe its not for all the tastes but its a very quality game and greatly polished.
I pre-ordered and played a few betas. In my opinion the game is improving with quite a few things (and quickly). The graphics are being optimized and already perform much better than they did last beta testing. The paths and questing feels smoother and many bugs have been fixed.
What people need to remember when comparing this game to WoW, is that when WoW originally came out there were A LOT of issues with it. WoW was not the same game back in Vanilla as it is now. There were glitches, huge sized raids that they scaled down ect...ect....It took Blizz quite some time to work out most of the kinks and make WoW the game it is today.
Personally, I enjoy Wildstar at the time being, but I am very intruiged to see where Carbine will take the game and improve on it as time passes. They do listen to their players from what I have seen, and that's a great thing to have.
Here's the issue with that though. It doesn't really matter what WoW started with. It's what WoW is today. That's what WildsStar is competing with. WoW had 10 years to become good. WildStar simply doesn't have that kind of time. In fact, they don't have any. That's reality. Nobody cares that it's a new game. if it's not able to compete coming out of the gate, it will struggle.
Focus can be a problem for those with a lot of awareness like me, and not so great eye sight in upper age group... However, there is help for you.. go into the video settings and there is a detail bar.. I forget the exact name of the bar.. but it removes all the little trinkets on the tables and whatnot, and voila... all better..... After a few video tweaks (and they have optimized graphics alot lately) its normal and the haze has left the building.. looks great as of today from earlier...
Also install the curse client or whatever (yes it supports wildstar) and bijiplates increase the font of nameplates up... that alone changes the graphics and focus majorly
Yes, Wildstar have been very Hyped... the beta have really been limited, dont know any who plays it and all you have is some official picture and movies that looks great!
Finally not at the end they lift NDA and they release a beta weened that everyone can join.. and thank god I tried out the beta, because there is really nothing special in Wildstar... The housing seems a bit limited really, not as fun and advanced as you want a housing-system to be..
it is sad to say but I will play what companies make,its my hobby so I try and buy the best for myself and wildstar will not get my money anytime soon.
ESO is getting my money but the game does not blow me away,its fun though.
Going to chime in here and say that Wildstar has been a huge let down.
Quests are boring to death.
Paths are a waste of time and bring nothing new to the table (I actually had more fun ignoring paths).
All classes are the same exact thing with the exception of different telegraphs when it comes to DPS (Same with heals, but at least it has some difference)
Floating combat. Nothing needed to say more here.
PVP is boring and a joke. Warplots are just a mess and should be avoided.
40 man raids? Yes, I want to group up with 39 other people to waste more time. Not to mention most of the raid gear looks like a joke.
If I wanted to play WoW, I would go play WoW. And I don't want to play WoW.
Edit: I did like housing a bit, but instanced housing is just crap.
+1 Anyone who's actually looking forward to 40 man raids clearly never spent much time raiding in vanilla WoW. It was a complete nightmare to build and maintain a reliable 40 man team for raiding.
There's a reason that Blizz moved to the 10 / 25 and soon to be 20 person raid format.
While big raids in today's instant-gratification games such as Wildstar would indeed be a nightmare, I loved 72 man raids in EQ. Epic beyond measure.
Well, more development money wasted on a game that is going to make life hell for the studio producing it. Why are there still companies out there murdering themselves on traditional themepark MMO games? It's not going to matter what they do with the setting or visuals: the game is fundamentally doing the same thing everyone is getting tired of.
Not saying this game isn't going to have people who will like it, but I technically like Final Fantasy XIV ARR and I'm not even throwing money at it on a regular basis. I mostly just sub for a month, cancel recurring payment plan, and just treat playing the game like a rental from Block Buster. That is after having played it for maybe four to six months consistently. Given the goal is to have people paying for at least two years consistently on a subscription model that isn't a good sign.
Also, FFXIV ARR is banking a lot on nostalgic content giving homages back to the 90s and 80s originals to keep people running in and playing. Wild Star has zero history what's so ever and is banking completely on it's own merits and dev studio reputation to keep itself afloat. Even ESO has more history behind it to keep it rolling.
I find it at least funny some ppl bash Wildstar and say they will play TESO instead. I know its up to every1 taste. I prefer Wildstar than TESO by a mile. Others prefer the opposite. Its ok anyway.
Originally posted by Greymantle4 You waited months to tell us the game has quest hubs and its not for you? Thanks I guess....
I aim to please :P
The real question is how does it feel to go 6-7 months being disappointed by this game, 4 in ESO and now you'll be sitting around holding your breath for EQ. Sounds like one continual, ongoing, massive disappointment for you...gotta suck that no developer wants to create a game that you would enjoy, I don't know if I could just sit around waiting for something to happen.
/shrug
Exactly. I suspect that OP wouldn't be happy with just about any game, that it was technically possible to create at this point. They are all too typical of the jaded, cynical types, who nothing and no one can please. Perhaps they need to find another hobby, that they will actually enjoy.
After re-reading most of these posts, I figured it out..
All the haters are single player gamers, that can't play with anyone else... They need to solo everything and this game is a MMORPG, not a solo game.. You are required to work with others to enjoy the content... So all they see is the quest line, and get board from it because, they are not programmed to like the lore yet... They know ESO and ESO caters to their single player game style and the lore exists... Easy fit for them.. This is great.. because MMORPG's area about teamwork and community and getting rid of this solo minded mindset is going to be a great thing for this game...
CO-OP gaming is the best, destroyed by the GIMME GIMME attitude of lazy unwilling gamers who want to stroll thru... Wildstar will eat you up and spit you out.... CYA
The real question is how does it feel to go 6-7 months being disappointed by this game, 4 in ESO and now you'll be sitting around holding your breath for EQ. Sounds like one continual, ongoing, massive disappointment for you...gotta suck that no developer wants to create a game that you would enjoy, I don't know if I could just sit around waiting for something to happen.
It is not like he is sitting in front of PC doing nothing, until next game is released, do you always take everything literaly?
Originally posted by ApolloZen
Grab your friends,and approach your games less seriously. And you won't spend the next decade in perpetual disappointment waiting for that game that isn't coming.
That argument... "you do not like it, because you do not play it the way I play it"... like the game couldn't be just plain bad, or your standards low. Be happy, don't go smartass on people.
After playing two weekends I am very disappointed. I am really easily entertained, and lots of games that were flamed here, gave me a lot of fun. This one is just below average. I was always defending the cartoony style on this forum, but after spending few hours in this game I have to say this particular style is incredibly annoying. Characters are just hard to like, it feels like playing a disney game. And I didn't see any of the humor from trailers. I was expecting something more like southpark with clever story, while it feels like random sunday morning cartoon. Quests only ruin it more. Combat is fun, but I don't play mmo only for combat.
My god, have you guys seen the graphics? This game is like a cartoon freak show. And people were complaining that WoW is cartoony. Wildstar graphics look like they are 3+.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Comments
don't give up yet
idk if you've tried Archeage but atm...best sandpark out, not entirely the quest driven crap most have...the repopulations writings give me hope as well...for now, if you dig stealth games i recommend mark of the ninja...pretty kick ass, also rust, just get on a low pop server 
Honestly the game gets hella boring was in beta for a year, would test content and bug fixes for a week or two each month.
I did however pre-order just as a casual something to kill a few hours every couple of days kinda game.
Basically Wildstar will be my SWTOR, back up mmo replacement when my friends and family are not on ESO.
What boggles my mind is how the pro-ESO anti WildStar folks can't see that ESO is a hubhopper game with no innovation either. At least WildStar doesn't take itself so deadly serious like ESO. I play games to have fun not to have a second job that makes playing feel like a chore.
Of course then again I will never understand people bitching about having tons of quests and things to do... especially when the vast majority of them are optional. I just don't get the desire to just roam around and randomly kill shit, but doubly can't understand the mentality that doesn't realize that in most games WS and WoW included, that you can still just roam around and randomly kill shit.
Help support an artist and gamer who has lost his tools to create and play: http://www.gofundme.com/u63nzcgk
Maybe they do.
Considering WoW a MMO designed for stupid, lazy, casual non-gamers was the most successful mmo of all time.
Honestly it comes down to marketing. WoW was the pet rock of MMO's, a craptastic product with insane marketing.
EVERY developer since WOW has been chasing the golden goose that was WoW's success, but like idiots they continue to believe WoW was successful because of game design. They continue to swing and miss with clone after clone, because the success was NEVER about the game. The success was 100% about the marketing.
They blitzkrieged marketing.
The game was EVERYWHERE.
It was advertised in pretty much every publication from American Sportsman to Cosmopolitan. It was on every daytime and late night talk show. It had skits on Saturday Night Live and Southpark. It was in every sitcom, hell it was even in daytime soap operas, and political ads.
They painted you as uncool, if you were not playing WoW. They painted it as the social hookup of the generation.
WoW brought thousands of women and girls into gaming that had never even considered online gaming before.
However this success was not about game design, it was about spending mega millions on marketing.
Today game studios, are too stupid or greedy to allocate half the development budget to marketing so they sit there scratching their heads wondering why their game is not as popular as WoW.
MMOs Played: FFXI,Age of Conan, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, GW2
Playing:None
Waiting For: Wildstar, The Repopulation, Archeage, TESO, Warhammer 40K:EC, EQN
As soon as someone calls WoW a crap game or a crap product I immediately tune out their opinion.
Even if you absolutely hate WoW and what it did to the genre, you really can't call the game crap or infer that it is a crappy product. It is beautifully designed an amazing amount of work has gone into making a detailed and huge world that continues to be lovingly added on to. You will not find a more polished or supported MMO. So it is just ignorant to say the game is a crap product just because it caters to the masses and not the narrow scope of your particular gaming pleasures.
WildStar is special and it will be a hit, I do not think it will nessecarily topple WoW. Now it may not be your cup of tea, but that far from makes this a bad product. I think if they pumped a little juice into advertising it could, like WoW draw in previous none gamers. It has a mass appeal that could attract none gamers or other genre gamers.
Help support an artist and gamer who has lost his tools to create and play: http://www.gofundme.com/u63nzcgk
The sad part is if you use that kind of logic, any game will seem like you are doing boring derivative things like pressing buttons and looking at shapes. The fact that you are describing playing the game in that way is a symptom of your disinterest not the cause.
Also you have the option to modify or turn off telegraphs completely.
MMOs Played: FFXI,Age of Conan, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, GW2
Playing:None
Waiting For: Wildstar, The Repopulation, Archeage, TESO, Warhammer 40K:EC, EQN
I pre-ordered and played a few betas. In my opinion the game is improving with quite a few things (and quickly). The graphics are being optimized and already perform much better than they did last beta testing. The paths and questing feels smoother and many bugs have been fixed.
What people need to remember when comparing this game to WoW, is that when WoW originally came out there were A LOT of issues with it. WoW was not the same game back in Vanilla as it is now. There were glitches, huge sized raids that they scaled down ect...ect....It took Blizz quite some time to work out most of the kinks and make WoW the game it is today.
Personally, I enjoy Wildstar at the time being, but I am very intruiged to see where Carbine will take the game and improve on it as time passes. They do listen to their players from what I have seen, and that's a great thing to have.
Here's the issue with that though. It doesn't really matter what WoW started with. It's what WoW is today. That's what WildsStar is competing with. WoW had 10 years to become good. WildStar simply doesn't have that kind of time. In fact, they don't have any. That's reality. Nobody cares that it's a new game. if it's not able to compete coming out of the gate, it will struggle.
I understand that, I am just saying that the whole point of an online game is that it can grow with the players through patches, expansions ect. They are doing all they can to bring out their image of the game with the least amount of bugs and problems before launch. After they will probably start tweaking a few things here and there for many years to come.
I think Wildstar *does* have that kind of time. If subscriptions don't fare well, they will just do a cash shop thing like other mmo's and still manage to go strong for years to come. It's still an overall solid game for the people who are looking for THAT type of game. Mind you, I haven't played very far because I don't really want to replay everything on launch day so I can't really speak for higher levels...However, what I did play of was quite enjoyable.
I was in almost all betas of the launched mmo's after warhammer and i can say Wildstar beta is the best experience i had in every aspect. Especially as it concerns bugs despite it has 2+ months more until release date (you can compare with TESO in this matter to see the difference). It is almost bug free and the optimization is been greatly improved this weekend. I play in high settings with a Q9400 and a GTX260.
Maybe its not for all the tastes but its a very quality game and greatly polished.
Focus can be a problem for those with a lot of awareness like me, and not so great eye sight in upper age group... However, there is help for you.. go into the video settings and there is a detail bar.. I forget the exact name of the bar.. but it removes all the little trinkets on the tables and whatnot, and voila... all better..... After a few video tweaks (and they have optimized graphics alot lately) its normal and the haze has left the building.. looks great as of today from earlier...
Also install the curse client or whatever (yes it supports wildstar) and bijiplates increase the font of nameplates up... that alone changes the graphics and focus majorly
Regards,
Killcrit
Twitch: Killcrit
Twitter: Killcrit
Yes, Wildstar have been very Hyped... the beta have really been limited, dont know any who plays it and all you have is some official picture and movies that looks great!
Finally not at the end they lift NDA and they release a beta weened that everyone can join.. and thank god I tried out the beta, because there is really nothing special in Wildstar... The housing seems a bit limited really, not as fun and advanced as you want a housing-system to be..
As some said, this is nothing for me...
it is sad to say but I will play what companies make,its my hobby so I try and buy the best for myself and wildstar will not get my money anytime soon.
ESO is getting my money but the game does not blow me away,its fun though.
While big raids in today's instant-gratification games such as Wildstar would indeed be a nightmare, I loved 72 man raids in EQ. Epic beyond measure.
Well, more development money wasted on a game that is going to make life hell for the studio producing it. Why are there still companies out there murdering themselves on traditional themepark MMO games? It's not going to matter what they do with the setting or visuals: the game is fundamentally doing the same thing everyone is getting tired of.
Not saying this game isn't going to have people who will like it, but I technically like Final Fantasy XIV ARR and I'm not even throwing money at it on a regular basis. I mostly just sub for a month, cancel recurring payment plan, and just treat playing the game like a rental from Block Buster. That is after having played it for maybe four to six months consistently. Given the goal is to have people paying for at least two years consistently on a subscription model that isn't a good sign.
Also, FFXIV ARR is banking a lot on nostalgic content giving homages back to the 90s and 80s originals to keep people running in and playing. Wild Star has zero history what's so ever and is banking completely on it's own merits and dev studio reputation to keep itself afloat. Even ESO has more history behind it to keep it rolling.
Exactly. I suspect that OP wouldn't be happy with just about any game, that it was technically possible to create at this point. They are all too typical of the jaded, cynical types, who nothing and no one can please. Perhaps they need to find another hobby, that they will actually enjoy.
After re-reading most of these posts, I figured it out..
All the haters are single player gamers, that can't play with anyone else... They need to solo everything and this game is a MMORPG, not a solo game.. You are required to work with others to enjoy the content... So all they see is the quest line, and get board from it because, they are not programmed to like the lore yet... They know ESO and ESO caters to their single player game style and the lore exists... Easy fit for them.. This is great.. because MMORPG's area about teamwork and community and getting rid of this solo minded mindset is going to be a great thing for this game...
CO-OP gaming is the best, destroyed by the GIMME GIMME attitude of lazy unwilling gamers who want to stroll thru... Wildstar will eat you up and spit you out.... CYA
Regards,
Killcrit
Twitch: Killcrit
Twitter: Killcrit
It is not like he is sitting in front of PC doing nothing, until next game is released, do you always take everything literaly?
That argument... "you do not like it, because you do not play it the way I play it"... like the game couldn't be just plain bad, or your standards low. Be happy, don't go smartass on people.
After playing two weekends I am very disappointed. I am really easily entertained, and lots of games that were flamed here, gave me a lot of fun. This one is just below average. I was always defending the cartoony style on this forum, but after spending few hours in this game I have to say this particular style is incredibly annoying. Characters are just hard to like, it feels like playing a disney game. And I didn't see any of the humor from trailers. I was expecting something more like southpark with clever story, while it feels like random sunday morning cartoon. Quests only ruin it more. Combat is fun, but I don't play mmo only for combat.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.