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POLL: Are mmo's too fast?

StuperstingStupersting Courtenay, BCPosts: 31Member

Hey, since theres always a big discussion around how mmos are too quick to finish these days, I think having a poll display the results would be a good idea.

 

Feel free to discuss/explain your position in a post.

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Comments

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    I don't play endgame ever.  When my character reaches maximum level, it gets retired and I either start another character or move on to a different game.  There is nothing whatsoever in endgame that I have any interest in doing.  I detest PvP with a passion, I will not raid and I will not grind for gear.  Once progression is over, my interest in the game is over too.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • deniterdeniter LappeenrantaPosts: 806Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    I don't play endgame ever.  When my character reaches maximum level, it gets retired and I either start another character or move on to a different game.  There is nothing whatsoever in endgame that I have any interest in doing.  I detest PvP with a passion, I will not raid and I will not grind for gear.  Once progression is over, my interest in the game is over too.

    +1.

    I just hope the journey lasts as long as possible if the game is good. As long as there's progression, i keep playing. When it's over, i either reroll or quit playing.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon

    I'm an endgame raider. if gameplay can offer raiding pre-endgame but in a way that's not cheesed by out-leveling content, (scaling???) then i'd be all in favor of ultra-long trips to endgame but basically I am in this position:

     

    I like gear grinds and large-scale raiding challenges.

    I hate cheesing said things by out-leveling, associated out-gearing, abilities unavailable at intended level, runthroughs and so on.

     

    the only place content can't be out-leveled is at endgame.

    Until someone designs a better system...I have to stick to endgame.

     

     

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  • crack_foxcrack_fox WellingtonPosts: 402Member
    I would prefer the game to end or to be cyclical like ATiTD. I don't care much for the sort of activities that constitute 'end-game'. Nor do I really want a journey that never ends. 
  • sunandshadowsunandshadow Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,048Member Uncommon

    The pace of MMOs is too uneven, in my opinion.  They are too fast at the first 10 or 15 levels, and too slow past the midpoint in the level curve.

    As far as endgame, a lot of sandbox content can be left up to the player whether to do it in between levels or after they are done leveling.  Minigames, mount racing, card games against other players, leveling crafting, are all things that can happen independent of the player's combat level.

    I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story.  So PM me if you are starting one.
  • severiusseverius sacramento, CAPosts: 1,514Member Common
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    I don't play endgame ever.  When my character reaches maximum level, it gets retired and I either start another character or move on to a different game.  There is nothing whatsoever in endgame that I have any interest in doing.  I detest PvP with a passion, I will not raid and I will not grind for gear.  Once progression is over, my interest in the game is over too.

    Ditto.  I am actually finding far more enjoyment from the plethora of roguelikes out there as those are games that you can play nearly for ever.  Now, if only I could find the Star Trek game I played back in the early 80's.....

    image

    image
  • Raxxo82Raxxo82 MalmöPosts: 144Member Uncommon
    I want a loooong way to go to get to endgame. Then I want an endgame that doesnt end... edit: I likes the grind

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  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Polls like these never represent what the majority wants. Just the passionate vocal minority, more likely to vote in these polls to begin with.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    Polls like these never represent what the majority wants. Just the passionate vocal minority, more likely to vote in these polls to begin with.

    Yeh .. the majority don't even care that much about MMOs .. .there are so many other types of games to play.

     

  • IGaveUpIGaveUp NW, INPosts: 273Member

    My endgame is crafting, exploring, and helping others level.

     

  • deniterdeniter LappeenrantaPosts: 806Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    Polls like these never represent what the majority wants. Just the passionate vocal minority, more likely to vote in these polls to begin with.

    Yeh .. the majority don't even care that much about MMOs .. .there are so many other types of games to play.

     

    That's true, there's no MMOs on top 10 best selling computer games in 2013, not even one. Also, there's no MMOs on top 36 best selling computer games all time.

    Using that logic, MMOs shouldn't even exist because majority don't like them..

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by RealmLordsKen

    My endgame is crafting, exploring, and helping others level.

     

    My endgame is moving on to a new game.

    I thought people like to interpret labels literally ... if MMO has to be massive, doesn't endgame has to "end"?

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    Polls like these never represent what the majority wants. Just the passionate vocal minority, more likely to vote in these polls to begin with.

    Yeh .. the majority don't even care that much about MMOs .. .there are so many other types of games to play.

     

    That's true, there's no MMOs on top 10 best selling computer games in 2013, not even one. Also, there's no MMOs on top 36 best selling computer games all time.

    Using that logic, MMOs shouldn't even exist because majority don't like them..

    We are still on a MMO site right? Talking about MMO's and people who play them?

     

    Just making sure I'm not replying to the village idiots, two stupider brothers.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Greenwich, CTPosts: 2,839Member Uncommon

    I believe it comes down to the type of game you want.  EQ may have been a bit to grindy at times for the majority of people and to Pen and Paper like in terms of classes and rules. 

    I think Ultima Online might have been on the right path.  Have no levels and skills that can always go up.  I think there was a cap on the total skill points and when you passed that cap one of your other skills would go down to compensate.  This allowed you to always evolve.  There were many different things you could do in game like craft, go exploring to find places and kill monster, build houses, theft via pickpocket or PvP, etc. 

    Maybe the games shouldn't be about leveling, but trying to create a world where people can jump in and do everyday tasks in a fantasy world.  If they don't want do everyday tasks they can still go and kill things for loot.  Items would eventually break making crafting worthwhile and give crafters something to do.  I am not a big crafting fan myself, but some people like it.

    Raid type content could be there for people who enjoy that, but I wouldn't make it the main focus of the game.

    I feel perhaps games should stop focusing so much on loot and leveling.  Those were a means to an end, but no that's all the games are about.  They were supposed to convey a sense of progression, but they have become the sole focus in MMOs.  There needs to be other things to do then just leveling, killing, and looting.  I would like to see more RPG elements in games.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    Polls like these never represent what the majority wants. Just the passionate vocal minority, more likely to vote in these polls to begin with.

    Yeh .. the majority don't even care that much about MMOs .. .there are so many other types of games to play.

     

    That's true, there's no MMOs on top 10 best selling computer games in 2013, not even one. Also, there's no MMOs on top 36 best selling computer games all time.

    Using that logic, MMOs shouldn't even exist because majority don't like them..

    We are still on a MMO site right? Talking about MMO's and people who play them?

     

    1) MMORPG is broadening their coverage to include non-MMO

    2) We don't have to only talk about MMOs and the people who play them. Talking about people who don't play them is fair game since it is related to MMOs. You didn't read all those who are disgusted with MMO here, and currently are not playing one?

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Flyte27

    I feel perhaps games should stop focusing so much on loot and leveling.  Those were a means to an end, but no that's all the games are about.  They were supposed to convey a sense of progression, but they have become the sole focus in MMOs.  There needs to be other things to do then just leveling, killing, and looting.  I would like to see more RPG elements in games.

    Diablo shows that there is a huge market for focusing solely on loot & combat.

    Surely not all games need to do that ... but it is also not necessarily to unfocus every game from that.

     

  • DauntisDauntis Kansas City, MOPosts: 548Member Uncommon

    It should take a year to progress, crafting should be in real time + years to create something magical. Monsters shouldn't respawn, once the limited troops of evil are culled you are SOL there is no more experience to gain until a new evil arises a few years later (it takes time to amass evil armies), but by then your characters age progression would kill them off. Dungeons can only be explored once and they are non instanced so literally can only be done once. Even the best players are lucky to reach level 3.

     

    Would this be hardcore enough for the mmo's aren't hard enough crowd?

    I would like to give an opinion on this post, but if I agree I will offend people who disagree. While if I disagree my comment will be seen as inflammatory. Either way I will get banned by this site full of the most delicate flowers in online gaming. Ban people for giving honest opinions... beautiful. Unfortunately I still like the articles.

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Nevermind
  • SarothSaroth Cheyenne, WYPosts: 4Member

    How about lot's of endgame and an achievement system instead of levels with skill based combat. I think that would be ok. No levels, no problem!

    Currently playing:World of Warcraft, Planetside 2.

  • dancingstardancingstar LeedsPosts: 346Member Uncommon

    Heh, seems like I've started and abandoned 5 or 6 different replies to this thread. For the record, I chose the final, "no endgame," option, but that was on the understanding that what the OP meant by "endgame" was the abomination that has appropriated that term in the MMO-sphere. Also more as an ideal than a belief that a commercially viable MMORPG that I'd actually want to play would ever be made on such a basis -- at least before AI advances to the point of being able to create interesting content as fast as players can chew through it (since I find it hard to get into the style of game where players are just left to chew through each other).

  • dancingstardancingstar LeedsPosts: 346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dauntis

    It should take a year to progress, crafting should be in real time + years to create something magical. Monsters shouldn't respawn, once the limited troops of evil are culled you are SOL there is no more experience to gain until a new evil arises a few years later (it takes time to amass evil armies), but by then your characters age progression would kill them off. Dungeons can only be explored once and they are non instanced so literally can only be done once. Even the best players are lucky to reach level 3.

    Would this be hardcore enough for the mmo's aren't hard enough crowd?

    (This is not really a reply to the above, which I take it is a reductio ad absurdam of one or more of the various "hardcore" positions that get advanced on this site, but takes its cue from a couple of things you say.)

    Sometimes I think about what kind of online RPG I'd *really* like to play. Something that would be analogous to being in a "shared universe" pen and paper campaign where you had many groups of PCs running round the world doing things, carving out their own legends, &c., but not so many that the world would be reduced to a barren wasteland with all monsters hunted to extinction within an hour of the servers going live -- in other words, it would not be massively multiplayer. PCs are top predators, for an ecosystem to be -- I hesitate to use the word "realistic" here, but to have the slightest vestige of credibility, there are only so many that can be supported.

    So: if the Dark Lord gets defeated, he stays defeated (unless of course, whoever wins the loot roll is foolish enough to actually put on the Black Spiky Helmet of Doom, having missed the hint that on looting said helmet from the Dark Lord's corpse, the face beneath it looked remarkably like the leader of the last band of heroes to ride out against the Dark Lord, who were assumed to have all died). The abomination of having a boss "on farm" would be simply impossible. If a dungeon gets cleared, it will be repopulated before too long, but it will take longer before the denizens have anything worth stealing; whatever repopulated it will be different to what was there before and the same tactics won't work against them.

    Ah well, I can dream. What I describe might be doable as a text-based MUD or on a private NWN server; because of the sheer amount of time needed to write interesting content, unless and until AI gets advanced enough, it's not going to be a commercially viable prospect.

  • ErgloadErgload GV, OHPosts: 374Member
    MMOs are finished fast if you're grinding for hours and hours a day, if you just play casually you won't shoot through the content as quickly. MMO players tend to treat the game as a race to endgame which is understandable because the PvP at endgame is usually more fun (unless you're into WoW twinking), but really just scale back your play-time. Also try getting into RP servers and get involved with an RP guild or something.

    image

    Currently playing: Achaea
  • sunandshadowsunandshadow Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,048Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ergload
    MMOs are finished fast if you're grinding for hours and hours a day, if you just play casually you won't shoot through the content as quickly. MMO players tend to treat the game as a race to endgame which is understandable because the PvP at endgame is usually more fun (unless you're into WoW twinking), but really just scale back your play-time. Also try getting into RP servers and get involved with an RP guild or something.

    This really misses the point; it's about hours of playtime, not how many days you can stretch those hours out over.

    I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story.  So PM me if you are starting one.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by sunandshadow

    Originally posted by Ergload
    MMOs are finished fast if you're grinding for hours and hours a day, if you just play casually you won't shoot through the content as quickly. MMO players tend to treat the game as a race to endgame which is understandable because the PvP at endgame is usually more fun (unless you're into WoW twinking), but really just scale back your play-time. Also try getting into RP servers and get involved with an RP guild or something.
    This really misses the point; it's about hours of playtime, not how many days you can stretch those hours out over.
    Exactly. If I am having fun in an MMO, I don't want to log out just to "slow down my leveling experience."

    I voted the last choice, wanting the "end game" to just disappear in some MMOs. Raids do not have to be just at the end game. PvP can be scattered throughout the whole game, not just at the end, as can crafting. "Dailies" should be shot and put to rest.

    I also think that there should be MMOs for every kind of player, including fast leveling, end game heavy MMOs. The current trend for the "fast leveling" is getting out of hand. It is not meeting some of the players wants/desires.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • YoofaloofYoofaloof Somewhere oop North...Posts: 66Member Uncommon

    I've never got to end game in any MMO I've played. I love taking my time. I'm not one of those players who click quest givers and don't read the text then jump off into the distance like a demented loon. I see it all the time, they can't be enjoying the game surely. I've a character in WoW I've played on and off for 5 or 6 years now, and I think he's level 58 or something.

     

    It's not the MMO at fault it's the player IMO.

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