First off, I'm not a fan of typical UI's on most games where [deliberate hyperbole] there is more screen real estate used up by skill bars, status bars, mini-maps, quest lists, buff/debuff icons, menu shortcuts, and -- lest we forget -- the chat window(s) than used to actually present to the player what the character sees in the world.
But...
The interface in ESO seems very deliberately schemed to be like Skyrim; the marketers would have been stupid not to do that, no doubt; and that interface was designed to make transition to consoles all that much easier... since ESO is to also be released on consoles, it makes sense that the same paradigm would be chosen as a design approach.
However...
While console controllers have all these nice buttons easily in reach of youngsters' agile hands, they aren't exactly ideal for old farts' arthritic hands... and translation of that design to a keyboard/mouse environment, especially where a hand on the mouse is essential to the gameplay, is "somewhat lacking"... as in, IMHO, it sucks.
A minimalist approach is nice, I'll agree, but some of the key selections are less than ideal (and remapping doesn't really solve that problem); e.g., WASD for movement, but needing to get to the ALT key? My thumb doesn't exactly bend that way... do you know how many times I hit the Windows key during Beta testing? It's kind of a bummer in the middle of combat when the OS kicks you out to the desktop... Am I fond of inappropriately hitting the "E" key so I can move out of a mob's hit zone after resetting my left hand after using one of the 1-5 keys for a skill? Sometimes you need to keep your eyes on the screen, not on the keyboard (and isn't that the purpose of a minimalist UI to begin with? To let you see more of the screen?).
It's clunky. Period. Not the presentation to the player, but the implementation on the keyboard. Largely it's due to the tie between the mousebuttons and the attack, heavy attack, block, and interrupt functionality, but that decision leads to stupid implementations like the rotary wheel for accessing potions, etc. It's almost useless during combat because your mouse suddenly transitions from controlling attacks to selecting the potion on the wheel, and that is an extremely imprecise process...
"I'm out of mana/magicka/whatever it's called this week; quick, bring up the wheel!"
"Oops, I selected bait..."
<--die-->
EDIT: clarity EDIT AGAIN: damn typo
Well the Q wheel sucks yes, however I found that my logictec G700 mouse works beautfully with the bar, giveing good control with the thumb buttons. as for as the whole "Q" thing I plan on dieing a lot until I Master useing it.
I couldn't answer the poll. I like the UI better than allowing people to see information that encourages min/maxing, but there are some components of the UI I don't like. It's very reminiscent of console UI. For example, I don't like the wheel where potions and etc are located. I'd rather have hotbars.
Finally, and MMO where I don't feel like I'm playing a RTS game.
I will use add-on's too, but only for a few features that I'd like to display unobtrusively somewhere in a corner, or to perhaps reskin/reformat the existing UI elements.
I just love how these polls each and every time have more people backing them up then the very loud minority thats allways screaming for changes wants us to believe.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus I just love how these polls each and every time have more people backing them up then the very loud minority thats allways screaming for changes wants us to believe.
Majority... minority... the terms are bandied about with no substance behind them. That is, nobody has real numbers to back them up.
In most cases, most people will respond to questions of this nature: "Who likes the UI?" from an emotional perspective, not an analytical one. Whether or not they "like" the UI is a matter of personal taste and the extent to which it falls within their "comfort zone".
Most people are not going to consider that the user interface INCLUDES the controls... and that's where the ESO implementation is lacking. They're only going to look at the visual interface; that's not the problem. I personally really like the minimalist approach. It's the controls I can't tolerate.
For a SPRPG like Skyrim, where pressing a hot key stops the action, the control scheme is fine... kinda... sorta...
"Hold on there, dragon! Let me see; I need a potion of Extreme Healing, a potion of Fortify Two-Handed Weapons, a potion of Frost Resist, a potion of Magic Resist, some poison for my blade... just be patient, dragon! This will only take a second; hold your breath a little while longer... I'll kill you soon enough!"
[sarcasm] It kills immersion, but that's okay if it makes the developer some extra money, right? It reduces the cost to the developer of porting the game to a console environment and helps the developer sell more copies of the game to console-players; that's great, right? Like it'd be all that dramatically expensive to have two seperate and unique interfaces? [/sarcasm]
Having written, led, managed, directed, and produced several millions of lines of real time simulation source code during my career before I retired, I can be sarcastic about this because I know the answers to those questions. Those rationales are all BS.
In a real time environment, the controls behind the interface are problematic. ZOS needs to hire an HFE or two.
I like the concept of less clutter, more immersion but as usual with mmorpg devs they seem to have taken a great concept to the extreme.
Of course, we do not want so much clutter on screen that it detracts from playing the game, conversely we do not so little information on screen that it makes us work harder just to enjoy the game. In that sense I feel the UI leaves a lot to be desired. One of the reasons I play PC games is because generally speaking, console games have abysmal UIs and horrible control schemes.
Why am I being forced to suck it up and play with a "console" UI when I purchased the game on PC?
Less clutter is a good thing but for a mmorpg to release it's default UI with less functionality than something like Dark Souls is not really acceptible imo.
I also don't understand why so many of you in this thread keep saying you want to put min/maxers off playing your game. That does not make any sense to me but whatever....
EDIT: For the purposes of the poll I have ansered No as there were no options other than Yes or No.
First off, I'm not a fan of typical UI's on most games where [deliberate hyperbole] there is more screen real estate used up by skill bars, status bars, mini-maps, quest lists, buff/debuff icons, menu shortcuts, and -- lest we forget -- the chat window(s) than used to actually present to the player what the character sees in the world.
But...
The interface in ESO seems very deliberately schemed to be like Skyrim; the marketers would have been stupid not to do that, no doubt; and that interface was designed to make transition to consoles all that much easier... since ESO is to also be released on consoles, it makes sense that the same paradigm would be chosen as a design approach.
However...
While console controllers have all these nice buttons easily in reach of youngsters' agile hands, they aren't exactly ideal for old farts' arthritic hands... and translation of that design to a keyboard/mouse environment, especially where a hand on the mouse is essential to the gameplay, is "somewhat lacking"... as in, IMHO, it sucks.
A minimalist approach is nice, I'll agree, but some of the key selections are less than ideal (and remapping doesn't really solve that problem); e.g., WASD for movement, but needing to get to the ALT key? My thumb doesn't exactly bend that way... do you know how many times I hit the Windows key during Beta testing? It's kind of a bummer in the middle of combat when the OS kicks you out to the desktop... Am I fond of inappropriately hitting the "E" key so I can move out of a mob's hit zone after resetting my left hand after using one of the 1-5 keys for a skill? Sometimes you need to keep your eyes on the screen, not on the keyboard (and isn't that the purpose of a minimalist UI to begin with? To let you see more of the screen?).
It's clunky. Period. Not the presentation to the player, but the implementation on the keyboard. Largely it's due to the tie between the mousebuttons and the attack, heavy attack, block, and interrupt functionality, but that decision leads to stupid implementations like the rotary wheel for accessing potions, etc. It's almost useless during combat because your mouse suddenly transitions from controlling attacks to selecting the potion on the wheel, and that is an extremely imprecise process...
"I'm out of mana/magicka/whatever it's called this week; quick, bring up the wheel!"
"Oops, I selected bait..."
<--die-->
EDIT: clarity EDIT AGAIN: damn typo
I have a steelseries keyboard that has a sort of 'game area' on the left side of the keyboard. It works like the ASDW setup, but the keys are more evenly spaced, closer together, AND there is no windows key to ruin your gaming experience.
There are other options out there, if you look hard enough. Hell, there are gaming keyboards that are 1/4th the size of a real keyboard of you want to get all techie on some asses.
I do not however, have a fix for the quick slot wheel issue. I can only hope that an addon can affect it. Or, through player feedback, change it for PC users to allow them to keybind quickslots.
Originally posted by DAS1337 I have a steelseries keyboard that has a sort of 'game area' on the left side of the keyboard. It works like the ASDW setup, but the keys are more evenly spaced, closer together, AND there is no windows key to ruin your gaming experience.
I have the same keyboard, known as the Merc Stealth. However, Steelseries no longer makes it.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
Originally posted by nate1980 I couldn't answer the poll. I like the UI better than allowing people to see information that encourages min/maxing, but there are some components of the UI I don't like. It's very reminiscent of console UI. For example, I don't like the wheel where potions and etc are located. I'd rather have hotbars.
I'd even be okay with removing the wheel and adding three quick slots that you have to set through the inventory screen and add bindings to them. The wheel really is weak, especially so for PC gamers.
Personally I am fine with the UI. At first I found it a bit strange but the more I used it the less it bothered me, until now I am quite comfortable with it.
The only 2 things I would like to see a change to are:
1 Being able to see buffs and debuffs on yourself much more clearly. It would also be cool to be able to see them more clearly on mobs but I am not too worried about that.
2. The only part of the UI I really struggle with at the moment is Q and the quick slot wheel. I have no problem slotting it up, however using it in the heat of battle for the moment is proving a bit hit n miss for me. It may just need more practice, we will see from Sunday but a more intuitive and user friendly system would be nicer.
I have a steelseries keyboard that has a sort of 'game area' on the left side of the keyboard. It works like the ASDW setup, but the keys are more evenly spaced, closer together, AND there is no windows key to ruin your gaming experience.
There are other options out there, if you look hard enough. Hell, there are gaming keyboards that are 1/4th the size of a real keyboard of you want to get all techie on some asses.
I do not however, have a fix for the quick slot wheel issue. I can only hope that an addon can affect it. Or, through player feedback, change it for PC users to allow them to keybind quickslots.
Thanks for the suggestion, but it's really the principle of the thing. There are a whole lot of less fortunate people (especially young gamers) who can't afford $6K PC's like I have or even new keyboards. I'm old and retired, so cost is not a problem for me, but old and retired also equates to cantankerous and ornery... and, as an engineer, critical of poor design.
I suspect most young players may not have rich mommies and daddies to buy them fancy keyboards to play a game, so these kids will be out of luck (although they probably have the manual dexterity to adapt). [I'm not insinuating that you are a young kid with a rich mommy and daddy, so please don't take it that way].
ZOS screwed up in failing to design for the masses; if they expected everyone to go out and buy a special keyboard in order to play their game, then they set themselves up to fail over the long term. I've fired people for making that kind of severely flawed business decision.
Originally posted by nate1980 I couldn't answer the poll. I like the UI better than allowing people to see information that encourages min/maxing, but there are some components of the UI I don't like. It's very reminiscent of console UI. For example, I don't like the wheel where potions and etc are located. I'd rather have hotbars.
I'd even be okay with removing the wheel and adding three quick slots that you have to set through the inventory screen and add bindings to them. The wheel really is weak, especially so for PC gamers.
Yeah, that'd be fine too. Even if it's invisible quickslots the way the wheel is, except you could use your number keys to access them.
Originally posted by nate1980 I couldn't answer the poll. I like the UI better than allowing people to see information that encourages min/maxing, but there are some components of the UI I don't like. It's very reminiscent of console UI. For example, I don't like the wheel where potions and etc are located. I'd rather have hotbars.
I'd even be okay with removing the wheel and adding three quick slots that you have to set through the inventory screen and add bindings to them. The wheel really is weak, especially so for PC gamers.
Yeah, that'd be fine too. Even if it's invisible quickslots the way the wheel is, except you could use your number keys to access them.
Agreed
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm all for a streamlined UI but ESO is a bit too far. It would be nice to have a basic info like buffs, debuffs, etc. Especially since I like playing healer. I don't necessarily hate the UI but don't love it either.
Horrible UI for me. Minimalistic is good, thats not the issue for me but all the menus, inventory and several mechanics are a huge pain. Its may too much optimized for consoles and not even close to what good pc-oriented ui's can offer.
Originally posted by ghorgos Horrible UI for me. Minimalistic is good, thats not the issue for me but all the menus, inventory and several mechanics are a huge pain. Its may too much optimized for consoles and not even close to what good pc-oriented ui's can offer.
UI is bad, i could spend hours or days testing new addons in WoW and while i agree that stuff like Deadly boss mods / mandatory addons for pvp / raiding dont have a place in ESO i think that UI should be totaly personal preference.....
From Chat to Unitframes from Compass to Inventory. I hope creators of addons get a little freedom in that department as i coulnt stand the basic UI in ESO :P
I love the UI, I also like the Addons you will be able to use to customize it.
I think people who make UI Addons before any games launch is setting themselves up for a huge letdown if things change, I'm waiting until it launches to make mine.
did he just say he likes the UI but he wants to make it more like WoW?
at last that's what i read
and i seriously hope they will disable addons once and for all in ESO
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
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Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
Well the Q wheel sucks yes, however I found that my logictec G700 mouse works beautfully with the bar, giveing good control with the thumb buttons. as for as the whole "Q" thing I plan on dieing a lot until I Master useing it.
I love the UI !
Finally, and MMO where I don't feel like I'm playing a RTS game.
I will use add-on's too, but only for a few features that I'd like to display unobtrusively somewhere in a corner, or to perhaps reskin/reformat the existing UI elements.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Majority... minority... the terms are bandied about with no substance behind them. That is, nobody has real numbers to back them up.
In most cases, most people will respond to questions of this nature: "Who likes the UI?" from an emotional perspective, not an analytical one. Whether or not they "like" the UI is a matter of personal taste and the extent to which it falls within their "comfort zone".
Most people are not going to consider that the user interface INCLUDES the controls... and that's where the ESO implementation is lacking. They're only going to look at the visual interface; that's not the problem. I personally really like the minimalist approach. It's the controls I can't tolerate.
For a SPRPG like Skyrim, where pressing a hot key stops the action, the control scheme is fine... kinda... sorta...
"Hold on there, dragon! Let me see; I need a potion of Extreme Healing, a potion of Fortify Two-Handed Weapons, a potion of Frost Resist, a potion of Magic Resist, some poison for my blade... just be patient, dragon! This will only take a second; hold your breath a little while longer... I'll kill you soon enough!"
[sarcasm] It kills immersion, but that's okay if it makes the developer some extra money, right? It reduces the cost to the developer of porting the game to a console environment and helps the developer sell more copies of the game to console-players; that's great, right? Like it'd be all that dramatically expensive to have two seperate and unique interfaces? [/sarcasm]
Having written, led, managed, directed, and produced several millions of lines of real time simulation source code during my career before I retired, I can be sarcastic about this because I know the answers to those questions. Those rationales are all BS.
In a real time environment, the controls behind the interface are problematic. ZOS needs to hire an HFE or two.
Mixed feelings about it.
I like the concept of less clutter, more immersion but as usual with mmorpg devs they seem to have taken a great concept to the extreme.
Of course, we do not want so much clutter on screen that it detracts from playing the game, conversely we do not so little information on screen that it makes us work harder just to enjoy the game. In that sense I feel the UI leaves a lot to be desired. One of the reasons I play PC games is because generally speaking, console games have abysmal UIs and horrible control schemes.
Why am I being forced to suck it up and play with a "console" UI when I purchased the game on PC?
Less clutter is a good thing but for a mmorpg to release it's default UI with less functionality than something like Dark Souls is not really acceptible imo.
I also don't understand why so many of you in this thread keep saying you want to put min/maxers off playing your game. That does not make any sense to me but whatever....
EDIT: For the purposes of the poll I have ansered No as there were no options other than Yes or No.
I have a steelseries keyboard that has a sort of 'game area' on the left side of the keyboard. It works like the ASDW setup, but the keys are more evenly spaced, closer together, AND there is no windows key to ruin your gaming experience.
There are other options out there, if you look hard enough. Hell, there are gaming keyboards that are 1/4th the size of a real keyboard of you want to get all techie on some asses.
I do not however, have a fix for the quick slot wheel issue. I can only hope that an addon can affect it. Or, through player feedback, change it for PC users to allow them to keybind quickslots.
I have the same keyboard, known as the Merc Stealth. However, Steelseries no longer makes it.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
I'd even be okay with removing the wheel and adding three quick slots that you have to set through the inventory screen and add bindings to them. The wheel really is weak, especially so for PC gamers.
I really like it and wish that you couldn't mod it (because some mods will become "standard").
Games should push for immersion and see if they can't eliminate UI altogether at some point.
Personally I am fine with the UI. At first I found it a bit strange but the more I used it the less it bothered me, until now I am quite comfortable with it.
The only 2 things I would like to see a change to are:
1 Being able to see buffs and debuffs on yourself much more clearly. It would also be cool to be able to see them more clearly on mobs but I am not too worried about that.
2. The only part of the UI I really struggle with at the moment is Q and the quick slot wheel. I have no problem slotting it up, however using it in the heat of battle for the moment is proving a bit hit n miss for me. It may just need more practice, we will see from Sunday but a more intuitive and user friendly system would be nicer.
Thanks for the suggestion, but it's really the principle of the thing. There are a whole lot of less fortunate people (especially young gamers) who can't afford $6K PC's like I have or even new keyboards. I'm old and retired, so cost is not a problem for me, but old and retired also equates to cantankerous and ornery... and, as an engineer, critical of poor design.
I suspect most young players may not have rich mommies and daddies to buy them fancy keyboards to play a game, so these kids will be out of luck (although they probably have the manual dexterity to adapt). [I'm not insinuating that you are a young kid with a rich mommy and daddy, so please don't take it that way].
ZOS screwed up in failing to design for the masses; if they expected everyone to go out and buy a special keyboard in order to play their game, then they set themselves up to fail over the long term. I've fired people for making that kind of severely flawed business decision.
Yeah, that'd be fine too. Even if it's invisible quickslots the way the wheel is, except you could use your number keys to access them.
Agreed
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I like UI except one thing. Inventory. It's really bad.
UO style inventory ftw.
Agree
UI is bad, i could spend hours or days testing new addons in WoW and while i agree that stuff like Deadly boss mods / mandatory addons for pvp / raiding dont have a place in ESO i think that UI should be totaly personal preference.....
From Chat to Unitframes from Compass to Inventory.
I hope creators of addons get a little freedom in that department as i coulnt stand the basic UI in ESO :P
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
did he just say he likes the UI but he wants to make it more like WoW?
at last that's what i read
and i seriously hope they will disable addons once and for all in ESO
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"