These are businesses not passion felt game design,$$$ rules over everything else.
These have always been businesses. You just remember a time when your style of play represented the majority of the marketplace and companies therefore catered to it because it was the best business decision they could make. That's no longer the case, your style of play no longer represents the majority of the marketplace and developers are now catering to another form of gameplay that has more financial value. Nothing has changed except you stopped being financially valuable to the developers.
Originally posted by sunandshadow There is lots of imagination available, but very few people who want to put money behind it.
Imagination and ideas are a dime a dozen. Implementation, and making something happen is much harder.
That's true. Not that imagination is universal - I know a sad number of non-imaginative people - but there's more imagination than can be made into games even if every single game made were imaginative. The supply of creativity exceeding the demand, it is literally a dime a dozen.
I still contest that games are more fun when you don't know what's going on. I remember playing my first RPG Dragon Warrior on the Nintendo Entertainment System. I had no clue what I was doing or what the story was, but I completed the game and made up stories in my head. There wasn't a lot of dialogue/script/lore, but it did allow you to run around the world in an overhead map wherever you wanted to. There was also some dark dungeons where you couldn't see without a torch or a light spell. Sadly this is an old game and it implemented tools that were much more RPG oriented then games today. I also like to play Dark Souls and it doesn't bother me that there isn't a lot of dialogue, text, or scripts in the game. It's mostly about finding what works against what or what you need to protect yourself properly and what you need to advance past certain areas. I believe in a single player game can be fine like that then an MMORPG could as well.
Because a lot of people don't want to make up their own stories they are purchasing a game to consume entertainment if people want to create their own Entertainment and imagine things then they purchase Role Playing Systems like Dungeons and Dragons or GURPS.
There are also Video Games that allow you to be creative and make content such as Infamous 2's mission creator or RPG Maker.
If you want to create entertainment there are games and systems designed for it or jobs that will allow you do it such as being a writer or Video Game creator. Most people prefer to be consumers so they want to "consume" the high quality entertainment given to them. I have played some fan made missions in Infamous 2 some of them are just god awful....
I'm not really talking about fan made missions. I'm talking about jumping into a game and just playing it. There is no need for any story or dialogue to me there. The story just happens as you go along and ideas jump into your head about whats going on. Usually said things that jump into your head about whats happening will be more interesting to you then what the developers made. You don't have to sit there and make up a story per say. Dark Souls is a good example as I said before.
I still contest that games are more fun when you don't know what's going on. I remember playing my first RPG Dragon Warrior on the Nintendo Entertainment System. I had no clue what I was doing or what the story was, but I completed the game and made up stories in my head. There wasn't a lot of dialogue/script/lore, but it did allow you to run around the world in an overhead map wherever you wanted to. There was also some dark dungeons where you couldn't see without a torch or a light spell. Sadly this is an old game and it implemented tools that were much more RPG oriented then games today. I also like to play Dark Souls and it doesn't bother me that there isn't a lot of dialogue, text, or scripts in the game. It's mostly about finding what works against what or what you need to protect yourself properly and what you need to advance past certain areas. I believe in a single player game can be fine like that then an MMORPG could as well.
More fun for YOU. And i have more fun with all the great scripting and stories in dishonored, tomb raider, and many other such games.
I believe we choose what is fun to us, and let the market decide what to make.
I still contest that games are more fun when you don't know what's going on. I remember playing my first RPG Dragon Warrior on the Nintendo Entertainment System. I had no clue what I was doing or what the story was, but I completed the game and made up stories in my head. There wasn't a lot of dialogue/script/lore, but it did allow you to run around the world in an overhead map wherever you wanted to. There was also some dark dungeons where you couldn't see without a torch or a light spell. Sadly this is an old game and it implemented tools that were much more RPG oriented then games today. I also like to play Dark Souls and it doesn't bother me that there isn't a lot of dialogue, text, or scripts in the game. It's mostly about finding what works against what or what you need to protect yourself properly and what you need to advance past certain areas. I believe in a single player game can be fine like that then an MMORPG could as well.
More fun for YOU. And i have more fun with all the great scripting and stories in dishonored, tomb raider, and many other such games.
I believe we choose what is fun to us, and let the market decide what to make.
i would argue diablo 3 doesn't have that much story. It mostly about grinding mobs. You like the game a lot though. i find most stories in games these days are generic and made to appeal to everyone. They end being pretty hollow in the process. to me diablo 2 had a much better story and characters, but there is nothing like that today. There is to much concern someone might be offended by something and sue. either way id rather have little story and more actual things going on in the game.
These are businesses not passion felt game design,$$$ rules over everything else.
These have always been businesses. You just remember a time when your style of play represented the majority of the marketplace and companies therefore catered to it because it was the best business decision they could make. That's no longer the case, your style of play no longer represents the majority of the marketplace and developers are now catering to another form of gameplay that has more financial value. Nothing has changed except you stopped being financially valuable to the developers.
Join reality.
Pretty much this...
Innovation comes in strides in the big business world because they can afford to operate in such a way. There are always going to be more risk takers in the small business world because of what they compete with in the big business world. It's really that simple, those risk takers have no other course of being noticed and taken seriously. There's no reason to settle for the indie version of WOW as an example... most won't even settle for the lesser AAA versions.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I still contest that games are more fun when you don't know what's going on. I remember playing my first RPG Dragon Warrior on the Nintendo Entertainment System. I had no clue what I was doing or what the story was, but I completed the game and made up stories in my head. There wasn't a lot of dialogue/script/lore, but it did allow you to run around the world in an overhead map wherever you wanted to. There was also some dark dungeons where you couldn't see without a torch or a light spell. Sadly this is an old game and it implemented tools that were much more RPG oriented then games today. I also like to play Dark Souls and it doesn't bother me that there isn't a lot of dialogue, text, or scripts in the game. It's mostly about finding what works against what or what you need to protect yourself properly and what you need to advance past certain areas. I believe in a single player game can be fine like that then an MMORPG could as well.
More fun for YOU. And i have more fun with all the great scripting and stories in dishonored, tomb raider, and many other such games.
I believe we choose what is fun to us, and let the market decide what to make.
i would argue diablo 3 doesn't have that much story. It mostly about grinding mobs. You like the game a lot though. i find most stories in games these days are generic and made to appeal to everyone. They end being pretty hollow in the process. to me diablo 2 had a much better story and characters, but there is nothing like that today. There is to much concern someone might be offended by something and sue. either way id rather have little story and more actual things going on in the game.
hmm .. what do D3 have to do with this conversation? You don't think i only find ONE game to be fun, did you?
I am talking about Dishonored, Tomb Raider, Bioshocks and games like that. I didn't even mentioned D3. I also like puzzle games like The Room 2 ... don't tell me you think that needs a story too.
These are businesses not passion felt game design,$$$ rules over everything else.
These have always been businesses. You just remember a time when your style of play represented the majority of the marketplace and companies therefore catered to it because it was the best business decision they could make. That's no longer the case, your style of play no longer represents the majority of the marketplace and developers are now catering to another form of gameplay that has more financial value. Nothing has changed except you stopped being financially valuable to the developers.
Join reality.
Pretty much this...
Innovation comes in strides in the big business world because they can afford to operate in such a way. There are always going to be more risk takers in the small business world because of what they compete with in the big business world. It's really that simple, those risk takers have no other course of being noticed and taken seriously. There's no reason to settle for the indie version of WOW as an example... most won't even settle for the lesser AAA versions.
I don't believe marketing was anything like it is today even 15 years ago. Today everything is about marketing and selling a product. Many of the games we used to play were made by small companies that had a lot less restrictions on them than they do today for a variety of different reasons. I'll agree with your assessment that people won't settle for indies. The difference is indies were the main developers when games first came out. Now there are a lot more indie developers and a lot more AAA developers as well. It's hard to give an indie a chance when there are so many things to spend money on and the games are sporting 2D graphics that look like they are from the early 1990s in some cases. Even 3D graphics can be hard to take. EQ was the first 3D game I liked graphically. I thought Neverwinter Nights had horrible graphics and so did many of the first 3D games. I don't even mind 2D games as long as they are not pixel art.
I still contest that games are more fun when you don't know what's going on. I remember playing my first RPG Dragon Warrior on the Nintendo Entertainment System. I had no clue what I was doing or what the story was, but I completed the game and made up stories in my head. There wasn't a lot of dialogue/script/lore, but it did allow you to run around the world in an overhead map wherever you wanted to. There was also some dark dungeons where you couldn't see without a torch or a light spell. Sadly this is an old game and it implemented tools that were much more RPG oriented then games today. I also like to play Dark Souls and it doesn't bother me that there isn't a lot of dialogue, text, or scripts in the game. It's mostly about finding what works against what or what you need to protect yourself properly and what you need to advance past certain areas. I believe in a single player game can be fine like that then an MMORPG could as well.
More fun for YOU. And i have more fun with all the great scripting and stories in dishonored, tomb raider, and many other such games.
I believe we choose what is fun to us, and let the market decide what to make.
i would argue diablo 3 doesn't have that much story. It mostly about grinding mobs. You like the game a lot though. i find most stories in games these days are generic and made to appeal to everyone. They end being pretty hollow in the process. to me diablo 2 had a much better story and characters, but there is nothing like that today. There is to much concern someone might be offended by something and sue. either way id rather have little story and more actual things going on in the game.
hmm .. what do D3 have to do with this conversation? You don't think i only find ONE game to be fun, did you?
I am talking about Dishonored, Tomb Raider, Bioshocks and games like that. I didn't even mentioned D3. I also like puzzle games like The Room 2 ... don't tell me you think that needs a story too.
I'm just pointing out you like a game with little story and lots of grinding. You said you don't like games of this variety. You said you need to have a great scripted story to play games. Obviously that is not the case. You can be happy with a sandbox type environment.
Originally posted by Fenrir767Because a lot of people don't want to make up their own stories they are purchasing a game to consume entertainment if people want to create their own Entertainment and imagine things then they purchase Role Playing Systems like Dungeons and Dragons or GURPS.There are also Video Games that allow you to be creative and make content such as Infamous 2's mission creator or RPG Maker. If you want to create entertainment there are games and systems designed for it or jobs that will allow you do it such as being a writer or Video Game creator. Most people prefer to be consumers so they want to "consume" the high quality entertainment given to them. I have played some fan made missions in Infamous 2 some of them are just god awful....
I'm talking about jumping into a game and just playing it. There is no need for any story or dialogue to me there. The story just happens as you go along and ideas jump into your head about whats going on.
That's a very clear illustration of the fact that people don't agree on what kind of games they want to play, or what kind of innovation they want to see in games. For myself, I WANT the story, with dialogue and characters. I'm not very interested in the kind of story that just happens as I go along. Game worlds really aren't that interactive - as soon as I get an idea of a story I'd like to act out within a world, I run into a wall that the game world doesn't react properly to what I'm trying to do. The only way I don't have my suspension of disbelief shattered is if I let the game decide what the story's going to be, and hopefully supply the interactivity needed to make that story work.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
I'm just pointing out you like a game with little story and lots of grinding. You said you don't like games of this variety. You said you need to have a great scripted story to play games. Obviously that is not the case. You can be happy with a sandbox type environment.
Uh .. you have no logic in what you say. If you classify D3 as a sandbox MMO ... then i like THIS particular sandbox MMO. Is that what you are saying?
Because if a sandbox has D3 combat, a lobby to match with others, the whole game is instanced so i have no need to see anyone if i don't want to, have adventure modes and random solo instance dungeons, then I am all for a sandbox. Tell me, is a sandbox defined as such?
I thought this kind of games is called ARPG, but apparently you think they are sandboxes ... no problem i can use your definition. Tell me where i can find another D3-like sandbox.
I'm just pointing out you like a game with little story and lots of grinding. You said you don't like games of this variety. You said you need to have a great scripted story to play games. Obviously that is not the case. You can be happy with a sandbox type environment.
Uh .. you have no logic in what you say. If you classify D3 as a sandbox MMO ... then i like THIS particular sandbox MMO. Is that what you are saying?
Because if a sandbox has D3 combat, a lobby to match with others, the whole game is instanced so i have no need to see anyone if i don't want to, have adventure modes and random solo instance dungeons, then I am all for a sandbox. Tell me, is a sandbox defined as such?
I thought this kind of games is called ARPG, but apparently you think they are sandboxes ... no problem i can use your definition. Tell me where i can find another D3-like sandbox.
It's not a sandbox, but it is a classic style dungeon grinder. EQ was a lot like this, but less linear and with a lot more that could be done. Being that you don't really need story and don't mind grinding you already have two of the big things that it took to play old MMOs.
I'm just pointing out you like a game with little story and lots of grinding. You said you don't like games of this variety. You said you need to have a great scripted story to play games. Obviously that is not the case. You can be happy with a sandbox type environment.
Uh .. you have no logic in what you say. If you classify D3 as a sandbox MMO ... then i like THIS particular sandbox MMO. Is that what you are saying?
Because if a sandbox has D3 combat, a lobby to match with others, the whole game is instanced so i have no need to see anyone if i don't want to, have adventure modes and random solo instance dungeons, then I am all for a sandbox. Tell me, is a sandbox defined as such?
I thought this kind of games is called ARPG, but apparently you think they are sandboxes ... no problem i can use your definition. Tell me where i can find another D3-like sandbox.
It's not a sandbox, but it is a classic style dungeon grinder. EQ was a lot like this, but less linear and with a lot more that could be done. Being that you don't really need story and don't mind grinding you already have two of the big things that it took to play old MMOs.
EQ is like D3 .... hahahahaha ....
You cannot grind EQ alone in an instance.
There is no lobby to match up and grind with someone else.
EQ has no random dungeons.
EQ has no random loot.
EQ has no roll-your-own-loot to prevent loot drama.
And EQ has horrible combat compared to Diablo 3.
But ... if you make a D3 clone with EQ skin, i will play it.
I'm just pointing out you like a game with little story and lots of grinding. You said you don't like games of this variety. You said you need to have a great scripted story to play games. Obviously that is not the case. You can be happy with a sandbox type environment.
Uh .. you have no logic in what you say. If you classify D3 as a sandbox MMO ... then i like THIS particular sandbox MMO. Is that what you are saying?
Because if a sandbox has D3 combat, a lobby to match with others, the whole game is instanced so i have no need to see anyone if i don't want to, have adventure modes and random solo instance dungeons, then I am all for a sandbox. Tell me, is a sandbox defined as such?
I thought this kind of games is called ARPG, but apparently you think they are sandboxes ... no problem i can use your definition. Tell me where i can find another D3-like sandbox.
It's not a sandbox, but it is a classic style dungeon grinder. EQ was a lot like this, but less linear and with a lot more that could be done. Being that you don't really need story and don't mind grinding you already have two of the big things that it took to play old MMOs.
EQ is like D3 .... hahahahaha ....
You cannot grind EQ alone in an instance.
There is no lobby to match up and grind with someone else.
EQ has no random dungeons.
EQ has no random loot.
EQ has no roll-your-own-loot to prevent loot drama.
And EQ has horrible combat compared to Diablo 3.
But ... if you make a D3 clone with EQ skin, i will play it.
Actually those points you made are not really important. You could always find a camp spot to solo and not have to worry about other people stealing your loot. You never had to group unless you wanted to go into dungeons at the appropriate level. I actually found the solo classes like necromancer to be a lot more interesting than what you can do in D3. There was the whole strategy of breaking up groups of mobs with spells like lull, kiting, reverse kiting, and using your pet. The main problem with Diablo 3s combat is it's a point and click game. That is even older school then EQs combat system. It's bad for the hands and limited in what you can do compared to wasd first and third person views.
I'm just pointing out you like a game with little story and lots of grinding. You said you don't like games of this variety. You said you need to have a great scripted story to play games. Obviously that is not the case. You can be happy with a sandbox type environment.
Uh .. you have no logic in what you say. If you classify D3 as a sandbox MMO ... then i like THIS particular sandbox MMO. Is that what you are saying?
Because if a sandbox has D3 combat, a lobby to match with others, the whole game is instanced so i have no need to see anyone if i don't want to, have adventure modes and random solo instance dungeons, then I am all for a sandbox. Tell me, is a sandbox defined as such?
I thought this kind of games is called ARPG, but apparently you think they are sandboxes ... no problem i can use your definition. Tell me where i can find another D3-like sandbox.
It's not a sandbox, but it is a classic style dungeon grinder. EQ was a lot like this, but less linear and with a lot more that could be done. Being that you don't really need story and don't mind grinding you already have two of the big things that it took to play old MMOs.
EQ is like D3 .... hahahahaha ....
You cannot grind EQ alone in an instance.
There is no lobby to match up and grind with someone else.
EQ has no random dungeons.
EQ has no random loot.
EQ has no roll-your-own-loot to prevent loot drama.
And EQ has horrible combat compared to Diablo 3.
But ... if you make a D3 clone with EQ skin, i will play it.
Actually those points you made are not really important. You could always find a camp spot to solo and not have to worry about other people stealing your loot. You never had to group unless you wanted to go into dungeons at the appropriate level. I actually found the solo classes like necromancer to be a lot more interesting than what you can do in D3. There was the whole strategy of breaking up groups of mobs with spells like lull, kiting, reverse kiting, and using your pet. The main problem with Diablo 3s combat is it's a point and click game. That is even older school then EQs combat system. It's bad for the hands and limited in what you can do compared to wasd first and third person views.
That is not true. When i was playing EQ, i often got interrupted by others coming to my spot.
Nevertheless, even if it does not happen all the time, you can't guarantee it never happens unless you have an instance.
Well, obviously you don't account for the many physical base abilities in D3 .. in fact, you can't even fight more than 2-3 in EQ at the same time. The mob "management" aspect ... (do i use this ability on 3 mobs, or wait for 10) is missing for EQ.
In fact, all those things you just talk about (lull, kiting, reverse kiting with WD, and using pet) is present in D3 ... and many MORE that is not present in EQ .. for example, mobs cannot make walls in EQ. You cannot create a slow time bubble in EQ.
Bottomline is .. there are a lot more interesting abilities you can use in D3, a lot more tactical considerations, and the number of mobs, and their abilities vary a lot more.
EQ is a bad combat game .. it is very boring to me. Heck, you don't even have to manage CDs. I am glad i have other choices now. Heck, it is even worse than Marvel Heroes, or STO, or any modern game (for me). Comparing it to D3 ... make me laugh.
In fact, i need to get off work, and go back home to play adventure mode soon.
Again, if you can get them to make a D3 clone in EQ skin, i may play it. But a EQ ... won't touch it with a ten foot pole.
I'm just pointing out you like a game with little story and lots of grinding. You said you don't like games of this variety. You said you need to have a great scripted story to play games. Obviously that is not the case. You can be happy with a sandbox type environment.
Uh .. you have no logic in what you say. If you classify D3 as a sandbox MMO ... then i like THIS particular sandbox MMO. Is that what you are saying?
Because if a sandbox has D3 combat, a lobby to match with others, the whole game is instanced so i have no need to see anyone if i don't want to, have adventure modes and random solo instance dungeons, then I am all for a sandbox. Tell me, is a sandbox defined as such?
I thought this kind of games is called ARPG, but apparently you think they are sandboxes ... no problem i can use your definition. Tell me where i can find another D3-like sandbox.
It's not a sandbox, but it is a classic style dungeon grinder. EQ was a lot like this, but less linear and with a lot more that could be done. Being that you don't really need story and don't mind grinding you already have two of the big things that it took to play old MMOs.
EQ is like D3 .... hahahahaha ....
You cannot grind EQ alone in an instance.
There is no lobby to match up and grind with someone else.
EQ has no random dungeons.
EQ has no random loot.
EQ has no roll-your-own-loot to prevent loot drama.
And EQ has horrible combat compared to Diablo 3.
But ... if you make a D3 clone with EQ skin, i will play it.
Actually those points you made are not really important. You could always find a camp spot to solo and not have to worry about other people stealing your loot. You never had to group unless you wanted to go into dungeons at the appropriate level. I actually found the solo classes like necromancer to be a lot more interesting than what you can do in D3. There was the whole strategy of breaking up groups of mobs with spells like lull, kiting, reverse kiting, and using your pet. The main problem with Diablo 3s combat is it's a point and click game. That is even older school then EQs combat system. It's bad for the hands and limited in what you can do compared to wasd first and third person views.
That is not true. When i was playing EQ, i often got interrupted by others coming to my spot.
Nevertheless, even if it does not happen all the time, you can't guarantee it never happens unless you have an instance.
Well, obviously you don't account for the many physical base abilities in D3 .. in fact, you can't even fight more than 2-3 in EQ at the same time. The mob "management" aspect ... (do i use this ability on 3 mobs, or wait for 10) is missing for EQ.
In fact, all those things you just talk about (lull, kiting, reverse kiting with WD, and using pet) is present in D3 ... and many MORE that is not present in EQ .. for example, mobs cannot make walls in EQ. You cannot create a slow time bubble in EQ.
Bottomline is .. there are a lot more interesting abilities you can use in D3, a lot more tactical considerations, and the number of mobs, and their abilities vary a lot more.
EQ is a bad combat game .. it is very boring to me. Heck, you don't even have to manage CDs. I am glad i have other choices now. Heck, it is even worse than Marvel Heroes, or STO, or any modern game (for me). Comparing it to D3 ... make me laugh.
In fact, i need to get off work, and go back home to play adventure mode soon.
Again, if you can get them to make a D3 clone in EQ skin, i may play it. But a EQ ... won't touch it with a ten foot pole.
On the flip side you can't look around or aim. You are stuck clicking on areas of the screen to move around. It is a bit of a restricted system in place. I actually like that in games like Baldur's Gate or Shadowrun Returns where you are controlling a small group of characters and having periods of non combat in the game. I'm not a huge fan of non stop combat. There were more things you could do with a necro in EQ then I mentioned, but your right that putting up walls wasn't one of them.
On the flip side you can't look around or aim. You are stuck clicking on areas of the screen to move around. It is a bit of a restricted system in place. I actually like that in games like Baldur's Gate or Shadowrun Returns where you are controlling a small group of characters and having periods of non combat in the game. I'm not a huge fan of non stop combat. There were more things you could do with a necro in EQ then I mentioned, but your right that putting up walls wasn't one of them.
Of course you can aim. How do you think i am using a disintegration beam?
Still trying to claim more things? Why don't you list the number of skills for a necro .. i bet D3 has a lot more skills you can use ... what to make a bet? One D3 class has roughly 25 (wiz has exactly 25) skills each with 5 runes .. each doing a different thing.
I am not even talking about combination of passives. So tell me ... can a necro do 125 things? Are there gear that affect his builds?
What is going on with new games? Every game that comes out has less features and a mediocre story. I am not sure if development is being forced so quickly that games are skimping, but where is any innovation?
New games now have set rails and (at best) struggle to allow players to affect the world. Eso is on the right track and who knows Eq Next might have more, but games just don't have any choices.
Games used to have tons of skills and possibilities. I want skill lists, like UO, Marrowind, maybe even mabinogi. Game worlds such as Sword Art Online, Parallel universes. A mix of Scifi, Fantasy, Modern....I want a MMO like palladium's Rift or any other amazing book or comic series.
Is there any hope for the future?
Graphics go up, quality goes down, since developers still have the same time periods to release games.
Originally posted by Fenrir767Because a lot of people don't want to make up their own stories they are purchasing a game to consume entertainment if people want to create their own Entertainment and imagine things then they purchase Role Playing Systems like Dungeons and Dragons or GURPS.There are also Video Games that allow you to be creative and make content such as Infamous 2's mission creator or RPG Maker. If you want to create entertainment there are games and systems designed for it or jobs that will allow you do it such as being a writer or Video Game creator. Most people prefer to be consumers so they want to "consume" the high quality entertainment given to them. I have played some fan made missions in Infamous 2 some of them are just god awful....
I'm talking about jumping into a game and just playing it. There is no need for any story or dialogue to me there. The story just happens as you go along and ideas jump into your head about whats going on.
That's a very clear illustration of the fact that people don't agree on what kind of games they want to play, or what kind of innovation they want to see in games. For myself, I WANT the story, with dialogue and characters. I'm not very interested in the kind of story that just happens as I go along. Game worlds really aren't that interactive - as soon as I get an idea of a story I'd like to act out within a world, I run into a wall that the game world doesn't react properly to what I'm trying to do. The only way I don't have my suspension of disbelief shattered is if I let the game decide what the story's going to be, and hopefully supply the interactivity needed to make that story work.
I can't agree more with this games are limited by there Mechanics and the unfortunate fact that if we let players completely decide their own fate in game you could have huge imbalances that could ruin the overall game for everyone
Back when I first played SWG and the Imperials dominated most of the game because they got the cool faction pets, I really wanted to be able to burn their capital city on Tatooine to the ground and take the planet for the Rebellion guess what that's not part of the mechanics so can't do that.
Played WoW back in Vanilla days and thought how great this game would be if on a PvP server we could actually annihilate the alliance completely that's not gonna happen as the game would basically end.
All games limit what you can do in some way even EVE has limitations if developers didn't place limits and created a completely open world what would happen if one faction was good enough to annihilate all the others by raising their cities and deciding to commit an online genocide would there even be a point to playing the game on that server anymore.....
All games have limitations and they have them for a reason some can be more open others more restrictive but I have to agree with the above post if I can't do whatever I feel like give me the story to keep me engaged because otherwise whatever character story I am making up in games often rings hollow when compared to Professional storytelling.
On the flip side you can't look around or aim. You are stuck clicking on areas of the screen to move around. It is a bit of a restricted system in place. I actually like that in games like Baldur's Gate or Shadowrun Returns where you are controlling a small group of characters and having periods of non combat in the game. I'm not a huge fan of non stop combat. There were more things you could do with a necro in EQ then I mentioned, but your right that putting up walls wasn't one of them.
Of course you can aim. How do you think i am using a disintegration beam?
Still trying to claim more things? Why don't you list the number of skills for a necro .. i bet D3 has a lot more skills you can use ... what to make a bet? One D3 class has roughly 25 (wiz has exactly 25) skills each with 5 runes .. each doing a different thing.
I am not even talking about combination of passives. So tell me ... can a necro do 125 things? Are there gear that affect his builds?
On the flip side you can't look around or aim. You are stuck clicking on areas of the screen to move around. It is a bit of a restricted system in place. I actually like that in games like Baldur's Gate or Shadowrun Returns where you are controlling a small group of characters and having periods of non combat in the game. I'm not a huge fan of non stop combat. There were more things you could do with a necro in EQ then I mentioned, but your right that putting up walls wasn't one of them.
Of course you can aim. How do you think i am using a disintegration beam?
Still trying to claim more things? Why don't you list the number of skills for a necro .. i bet D3 has a lot more skills you can use ... what to make a bet? One D3 class has roughly 25 (wiz has exactly 25) skills each with 5 runes .. each doing a different thing.
I am not even talking about combination of passives. So tell me ... can a necro do 125 things? Are there gear that affect his builds?
How many modular game engines are there with video game skins over them?
I remember the first video game hand held I played 30 years ago having cards. I'm playing baseball. Poof, now I'm playing football on the same 48 LED system only with a different skin and different LED lights available.
Seeing Blizz and the the Titan MMO get resets, seeing CCP and years of engine development for carbon character end up with "it doesn't work". I can see why though. Years pissed up the wall for software R&D
There are more people who love simple stuff, the "I want it right now" generation. That's why devs are happily spoonfed them, over and over again.
We're just a minority, sadly.
There's nothing sad about it. Most people don't have time to sit and play a game for 12 hours a day, in fact, people who can do that have issues. Games are hobbies, they are something to fill your spare time. People who have that much spare time and are willing to sit in front of a computer screen and fight imaginary monsters all the time are clearly overlooking something important they ought to be doing.
Comments
These have always been businesses. You just remember a time when your style of play represented the majority of the marketplace and companies therefore catered to it because it was the best business decision they could make. That's no longer the case, your style of play no longer represents the majority of the marketplace and developers are now catering to another form of gameplay that has more financial value. Nothing has changed except you stopped being financially valuable to the developers.
Join reality.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I'm not really talking about fan made missions. I'm talking about jumping into a game and just playing it. There is no need for any story or dialogue to me there. The story just happens as you go along and ideas jump into your head about whats going on. Usually said things that jump into your head about whats happening will be more interesting to you then what the developers made. You don't have to sit there and make up a story per say. Dark Souls is a good example as I said before.
More fun for YOU. And i have more fun with all the great scripting and stories in dishonored, tomb raider, and many other such games.
I believe we choose what is fun to us, and let the market decide what to make.
i would argue diablo 3 doesn't have that much story. It mostly about grinding mobs. You like the game a lot though. i find most stories in games these days are generic and made to appeal to everyone. They end being pretty hollow in the process. to me diablo 2 had a much better story and characters, but there is nothing like that today. There is to much concern someone might be offended by something and sue. either way id rather have little story and more actual things going on in the game.
Pretty much this...
Innovation comes in strides in the big business world because they can afford to operate in such a way. There are always going to be more risk takers in the small business world because of what they compete with in the big business world. It's really that simple, those risk takers have no other course of being noticed and taken seriously. There's no reason to settle for the indie version of WOW as an example... most won't even settle for the lesser AAA versions.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
hmm .. what do D3 have to do with this conversation? You don't think i only find ONE game to be fun, did you?
I am talking about Dishonored, Tomb Raider, Bioshocks and games like that. I didn't even mentioned D3. I also like puzzle games like The Room 2 ... don't tell me you think that needs a story too.
I don't believe marketing was anything like it is today even 15 years ago. Today everything is about marketing and selling a product. Many of the games we used to play were made by small companies that had a lot less restrictions on them than they do today for a variety of different reasons. I'll agree with your assessment that people won't settle for indies. The difference is indies were the main developers when games first came out. Now there are a lot more indie developers and a lot more AAA developers as well. It's hard to give an indie a chance when there are so many things to spend money on and the games are sporting 2D graphics that look like they are from the early 1990s in some cases. Even 3D graphics can be hard to take. EQ was the first 3D game I liked graphically. I thought Neverwinter Nights had horrible graphics and so did many of the first 3D games. I don't even mind 2D games as long as they are not pixel art.
I'm just pointing out you like a game with little story and lots of grinding. You said you don't like games of this variety. You said you need to have a great scripted story to play games. Obviously that is not the case. You can be happy with a sandbox type environment.
Uh .. you have no logic in what you say. If you classify D3 as a sandbox MMO ... then i like THIS particular sandbox MMO. Is that what you are saying?
Because if a sandbox has D3 combat, a lobby to match with others, the whole game is instanced so i have no need to see anyone if i don't want to, have adventure modes and random solo instance dungeons, then I am all for a sandbox. Tell me, is a sandbox defined as such?
I thought this kind of games is called ARPG, but apparently you think they are sandboxes ... no problem i can use your definition. Tell me where i can find another D3-like sandbox.
It's not a sandbox, but it is a classic style dungeon grinder. EQ was a lot like this, but less linear and with a lot more that could be done. Being that you don't really need story and don't mind grinding you already have two of the big things that it took to play old MMOs.
EQ is like D3 .... hahahahaha ....
You cannot grind EQ alone in an instance.
There is no lobby to match up and grind with someone else.
EQ has no random dungeons.
EQ has no random loot.
EQ has no roll-your-own-loot to prevent loot drama.
And EQ has horrible combat compared to Diablo 3.
But ... if you make a D3 clone with EQ skin, i will play it.
Actually those points you made are not really important. You could always find a camp spot to solo and not have to worry about other people stealing your loot. You never had to group unless you wanted to go into dungeons at the appropriate level. I actually found the solo classes like necromancer to be a lot more interesting than what you can do in D3. There was the whole strategy of breaking up groups of mobs with spells like lull, kiting, reverse kiting, and using your pet. The main problem with Diablo 3s combat is it's a point and click game. That is even older school then EQs combat system. It's bad for the hands and limited in what you can do compared to wasd first and third person views.
That is not true. When i was playing EQ, i often got interrupted by others coming to my spot.
Nevertheless, even if it does not happen all the time, you can't guarantee it never happens unless you have an instance.
Well, obviously you don't account for the many physical base abilities in D3 .. in fact, you can't even fight more than 2-3 in EQ at the same time. The mob "management" aspect ... (do i use this ability on 3 mobs, or wait for 10) is missing for EQ.
In fact, all those things you just talk about (lull, kiting, reverse kiting with WD, and using pet) is present in D3 ... and many MORE that is not present in EQ .. for example, mobs cannot make walls in EQ. You cannot create a slow time bubble in EQ.
Bottomline is .. there are a lot more interesting abilities you can use in D3, a lot more tactical considerations, and the number of mobs, and their abilities vary a lot more.
EQ is a bad combat game .. it is very boring to me. Heck, you don't even have to manage CDs. I am glad i have other choices now. Heck, it is even worse than Marvel Heroes, or STO, or any modern game (for me). Comparing it to D3 ... make me laugh.
In fact, i need to get off work, and go back home to play adventure mode soon.
Again, if you can get them to make a D3 clone in EQ skin, i may play it. But a EQ ... won't touch it with a ten foot pole.
On the flip side you can't look around or aim. You are stuck clicking on areas of the screen to move around. It is a bit of a restricted system in place. I actually like that in games like Baldur's Gate or Shadowrun Returns where you are controlling a small group of characters and having periods of non combat in the game. I'm not a huge fan of non stop combat. There were more things you could do with a necro in EQ then I mentioned, but your right that putting up walls wasn't one of them.
BTW, how is instances, random dungeons, and more importantly, random loot, and no loot drama not important?
May be not to you .. but certainly to me, and many who like ARPGs.
Of course you can aim. How do you think i am using a disintegration beam?
Still trying to claim more things? Why don't you list the number of skills for a necro .. i bet D3 has a lot more skills you can use ... what to make a bet? One D3 class has roughly 25 (wiz has exactly 25) skills each with 5 runes .. each doing a different thing.
I am not even talking about combination of passives. So tell me ... can a necro do 125 things? Are there gear that affect his builds?
I think something got edited wrong. I didn't mean to post that. Sorry.
Graphics go up, quality goes down, since developers still have the same time periods to release games.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I can't agree more with this games are limited by there Mechanics and the unfortunate fact that if we let players completely decide their own fate in game you could have huge imbalances that could ruin the overall game for everyone
Back when I first played SWG and the Imperials dominated most of the game because they got the cool faction pets, I really wanted to be able to burn their capital city on Tatooine to the ground and take the planet for the Rebellion guess what that's not part of the mechanics so can't do that.
Played WoW back in Vanilla days and thought how great this game would be if on a PvP server we could actually annihilate the alliance completely that's not gonna happen as the game would basically end.
All games limit what you can do in some way even EVE has limitations if developers didn't place limits and created a completely open world what would happen if one faction was good enough to annihilate all the others by raising their cities and deciding to commit an online genocide would there even be a point to playing the game on that server anymore.....
All games have limitations and they have them for a reason some can be more open others more restrictive but I have to agree with the above post if I can't do whatever I feel like give me the story to keep me engaged because otherwise whatever character story I am making up in games often rings hollow when compared to Professional storytelling.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spelllist.html?name=&type=nec&level=1&opt=And+Higher&action=searc
im not counting them bit there are a lot. of course there were tuns of alternate advancement that augmented these spells in different ways.
obviously you cant aim in d3. the camera is locked. you can only click on areas of the screen. in a wasd game you can look around and at things.
There are more people who love simple stuff, the "I want it right now" generation. That's why devs are happily spoonfed them, over and over again.
We're just a minority, sadly.
We saw this coming 15 years ago.
How many modular game engines are there with video game skins over them?
I remember the first video game hand held I played 30 years ago having cards. I'm playing baseball. Poof, now I'm playing football on the same 48 LED system only with a different skin and different LED lights available.
Seeing Blizz and the the Titan MMO get resets, seeing CCP and years of engine development for carbon character end up with "it doesn't work". I can see why though. Years pissed up the wall for software R&D
There's nothing sad about it. Most people don't have time to sit and play a game for 12 hours a day, in fact, people who can do that have issues. Games are hobbies, they are something to fill your spare time. People who have that much spare time and are willing to sit in front of a computer screen and fight imaginary monsters all the time are clearly overlooking something important they ought to be doing.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None