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No raiding?

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  • bantapoobantapoo kjhkjhPosts: 4Member

    It seems raids are of the way, making the pvp in Cyrodil the true end game.

    My days of hardcore raiding are long gone, and I'm happy a major MMO doesn't propose that for a change.

  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    Originally posted by Desetes
    I don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

    What percentage of wow's population have they said are hardcore raiders?  5-10%?   Oh yes, it definitely is because of the raiding people have stayed.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    I remember when GW2 was released, there was 100 people yelling at me telling me GW2 have raids (they like to call dynamic event and world boss raid).

    So regardless of what people say here or like to use of terminology.  Ya TESO may have raid "or adventure zone or whatever you like to call them".  They probably were not the wow type raid you are expecting.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,610Member Uncommon
    I don't want every MMORPG I play to have all the features of every previous one I've ever played. That would be as boring as repeating content over and over again... sorta like raiding image
  • Mackaveli44Mackaveli44 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 152Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    I think the progression model is on the face of it quite robust.

    The potential for various skill trees from class, race, NPC guild and questlines; multiple unlocked skill setups (further varied by in-skill specialisation options) and multiple gear stat boost setups means working towards a character theme and furnishing that theme with the desired abilities and optimisations will take, potentially, a great deal of time to achieve.

    When this apparent fact is placed alongside the multiple paths with which one can achieve them - solo and group quest and exploration based world, open and closed dungeon PVE, adventure zone 'raid-size' PVE, and of course the central PVP, not to mention crafting et al, the variations on how you get there are not merely additive, they multiply.

    This is a good thing - one of the greatest complaints about '3 month' games is that they allow speedy advancement to 'end-game' and top skill and gear levels are acheivable too quickly. The locusts always find the line of least resistance and spam it until they get bored.

    I think Zenimax have been fully cognisant of this and have claimed to have built a game which has a non-linear, networked advancement model, hopefully sidestepping this problem entirely.

    Of course, their claims that they have such a model could end up being smoke and mirrors. But if it isn't, I can actually see the kinds of players who love playing alts actually sticking with one character for much longer, building alternative skill and gear setups on one toon - 'alting' one character if you will - because as presented to us thusfar, this is the first time it has been meaningfully possible.

    If this is indeed the case, I will be mightily impressed, and my personal habit of sticking with one character will be far more interesting and engaging for far, far longer than even a locust could complain about.

    Im with you on this.  If they can truly pull this off and it is in fact what they have in-game then Ill probably be around for a long time and will be impressed as well.  With that said, what kind of stats can we expect on gear?  I still am uninformed on what kind of stats will be on gear aside from the passives that come with wearing specific armor types i.e cloth = mana regen, plate = hp, etc, etc. 

    1 thin that does worry me and I hope is taken care of is the sever lack of monsters in the worlds of Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind.  Is that going to translate over to ESO?  Why I ask this is because Im wondering if theyre going to force us to quest to obtain levels/skill points.  Im hoping for a mix of content as in mobs in the world that you could go out and hunt for xp while also having the option to quest.  Certain games force you like FFXIV and I did not enjoy that(besides the FATE hunting)

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    I don't want every MMORPG I play to have all the features of every previous one I've ever played. That would be as boring as repeating content over and over again... sorta like raiding image

    I don't mind if the feature concepts are there, but I don't want them implemented that exact same way which is, I think, the point you're making.

    I don't mind mass group content. I don't mind instances. I don't mind pretty much any one feature of an mmo. I pretty much don't like that they are continually implemented in a nearly identical fashion. Sometimes I don't even mind that, but mostly I do. If that makes any sense at all.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    See I think instanced scripted progression raiding has been the single biggest design plague on the mmo genre period. I believe it's over credited for the success of some games, including WoW. It adversely affects what could otherwise be good pve progression, good pvp progression, and indepth crafting.

     Raiding isn't a plague on the MMO genre. There are just too man under-skilled developers in the gaming industry to think outside the box. They should take pointers from some companies who thought outside of the box with some of their PvP and PvE. Companies like NCsoft with Aion and Mythic with WAR who've fused the raiding experience with PvP. This will allow players to fight for a specific goal. Such as killing a king, emperor, or a warlord NPC while fighting off other players. The only plague on this industry are these lazy designers.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,610Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Iselin
    I don't want every MMORPG I play to have all the features of every previous one I've ever played. That would be as boring as repeating content over and over again... sorta like raiding image

    I don't mind if the feature concepts are there, but I don't want them implemented that exact same way which is, I think, the point you're making.

    I don't mind mass group content. I don't mind instances. I don't mind pretty much any one feature of an mmo. I pretty much don't like that they are continually implemented in a nearly identical fashion. Sometimes I don't even mind that, but mostly I do. If that makes any sense at all.

    It makes sense to me... and it reminds me of how they're doing their version of "heroic" dungeons. It's the same thing in that there are heroic dungeons just like in Rift, WOW, etc,. but they're implementing them by opening up new areas that weren't part of the non-heroic version.

     

    They've also mentioned several times that part of their future content plans is to add a large PvP dungeon similar to the DAoC Darkness Falls dungeon... that was one of the best features of DAoC. Clone away!

     

  • Mackaveli44Mackaveli44 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 152Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Iselin
    I don't want every MMORPG I play to have all the features of every previous one I've ever played. That would be as boring as repeating content over and over again... sorta like raiding image

    I don't mind if the feature concepts are there, but I don't want them implemented that exact same way which is, I think, the point you're making.

    I don't mind mass group content. I don't mind instances. I don't mind pretty much any one feature of an mmo. I pretty much don't like that they are continually implemented in a nearly identical fashion. Sometimes I don't even mind that, but mostly I do. If that makes any sense at all.

    It makes sense to me... and it reminds me of how they're doing their version of "heroic" dungeons. It's the same thing in that there are heroic dungeons just like in Rift, WOW, etc,. but they're implementing them by opening up new areas that weren't part of the non-heroic version.

     

    They've also mentioned several times that part of their future content plans is to add a large PvP dungeon similar to the DAoC Darkness Falls dungeon... that was one of the best features of DAoC. Clone away!

     

    Darkness falls was one of, if not the single greatest dungeon in history of these MMO's.  Solo, group, and raid content or PvP all in 1 massive dungeon that got progressively more difficult the further down you went.  I miss those days of sneaking around on my infiltrator to the other realms side.  Was a challenge but so thrilling and so fun.  Its one of the big reasons why Im excited for ESO is the Darkness Falls style dungeon they said theyre making and I feel they will do it right seeing how they have some DAoC devs on the team.

  • slygamer1979slygamer1979 sarasota, FLPosts: 86Member
    to some raiding may not be end game like it used to be but on the other hand i think the same amount of people don't think PvP is really end game either.  I myself never thought PvP was real end game material so as it stands i'm not really sure i'll get this game but i'm sure i'm not alone for one reason or another. 

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  • Skeeter50Skeeter50 summerville, GAPosts: 147Member Uncommon
    12 man group content called "Trials".
  • StilerStiler Athens, TNPosts: 599Member
    Originally posted by Desetes
    I don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

    Most players do NOT raid, only a minority of players actually raid.

     

    You would be surprised at how many players just play WoW to level up and play solo/explore, make alts and do it again.

     

    Raiding has never been the "mainstream" thing to do, but for some reason so many MMO's have got it in their head that end game = raiding, when most players actually do not like nor want to do it.

  • PAL-18PAL-18 AnachronoxPosts: 802Member
    Originally posted by Margulis
    Originally posted by Desetes
    I don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

    What percentage of wow's population have they said are hardcore raiders?  5-10%?   Oh yes, it definitely is because of the raiding people have stayed.

    What percentage of athletes have ever won olympic gold medal?

    It does not mean that if they cant never make it that they are not trying to achieve their goals.

    Its perfect endgame scenario since most of the people cant even touch it but they do want to.

     

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  • karat76karat76 Wellston, OHPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    I am glad the game does not seem focused on the end game raid tread mill. Raiding and the mind set that infects many of those who raid is one of the worst things to ever plague any mmo community. It is a cancer to gaming  while botters and gold farmers are stds.
  • Man_of_LeisureMan_of_Leisure beaverton, ORPosts: 37Member
    Originally posted by Stiler
    Originally posted by Desetes
    I don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

    Most players do NOT raid, only a minority of players actually raid.

     

    You would be surprised at how many players just play WoW to level up and play solo/explore, make alts and do it again.

     

    Raiding has never been the "mainstream" thing to do, but for some reason so many MMO's have got it in their head that end game = raiding, when most players actually do not like nor want to do it.

    This is probably because 'raiding' is the only group content left. You can solo most mmos to max level, which is what the soloing crowd wants, so they don't complain. And as long as people can rush to max-level and find group content there, they deal with it as well.

     

    Personally I find pve raiding to be very boring, but I love to organized pvp in groups, so pvp 'raiding' if you will.

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    Raiding is the last refuge of the uninspired, for people who will happily ride the hamster-wheel of tedious repetition month after month.  I'm really glad to see a game that doesn't feature raiding.
  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,758Member Uncommon
    End game is the death knell of MMOs. Anything you can have that yields solid gameplay is a must. A raiding/faction war mix would be ideal. Making end game rely on fewer types of gameplay does not bode well.
  • ArthasmArthasm LoznicaPosts: 754Member Uncommon
    No doubt why we later have threads why MMOs are so easy today... Zerg, rush, spam button 1...
  • LisaFlexy22LisaFlexy22 mesa, AZPosts: 430Member
    Originally posted by Desetes
    I don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

    Sure it is.  About 10% maximum of an mmo player base are hardcore raiders.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Desetes
    I don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

    5 million people that have left WoW over the last 3 years disagree with the hardcore raiding principle you have set. They only recently stabalized around 7 million subs because of LFR and other advancements.

     

    Personally, I'm done with raiding. I have been raiding since 2001 in EQ and I can honestly say I'm tired of having to pull 20-40 people together to get something done. Raiding content isn't harder content wise, It's harder because off all the people you have to organize and control. Especially now that communities don't really exist beyond guilds in an MMORPG.

     

    Give me challenging one group, duo, or solo content any day over another raid based MMO that is more of the same. As I said, 5 million people disagree with you about raiding being necessary to keep players in a game. GW2 disagrees as well, even though a lot of the lower tier servers are having population issues now, the more populated servers are doing just fine without traditional raids.

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  • LisaFlexy22LisaFlexy22 mesa, AZPosts: 430Member
    Originally posted by PAL-18
    Originally posted by Margulis
    Originally posted by Desetes
    I don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

    What percentage of wow's population have they said are hardcore raiders?  5-10%?   Oh yes, it definitely is because of the raiding people have stayed.

    What percentage of athletes have ever won olympic gold medal?

    It does not mean that if they cant never make it that they are not trying to achieve their goals.

    Its perfect endgame scenario since most of the people cant even touch it but they do want to.

     

    Your argument doesn't even work.  The point is a very small portion of an mmo player base even engages in the activity or cares to - it isn't about if they succeed (gold medal) or not.  It may be a perfect scenario for YOU but that doesn't mean it is for everyone else, and clearly percentages show it isn't for most.

     

    Having said that - it doesn't even matter since the first content update is the adventure zone Craglorn anyway so there you go.  An entire zone filled with dungeons, trials, quests, etc all for a raiding group.

     

    http://esohead.com/zones/603-craglorn

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon

    well, face it.

    there are enough "raidgames" out there already. 

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

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