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What makes a "Quest" more sandbox vs more themepark?

MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon

Skyrim is considered a big hit sandbox around this parts. It has some quest, but what is it that makes these

Sandbox quest what they are?

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Comments

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,281Member Uncommon

    Sandbox mmorpgs generally aren't quest centric. 

     

    As far as the quest itself there is no difference. 

  • casper333333casper333333 orlando, FLPosts: 17Member Uncommon

    skyrim=single player rpg its quest driven but not limited so I would say its a hybrid but  single player negates the mmo part

     

  • PhoenixC13PhoenixC13 Sonoma, CAPosts: 122Member Uncommon
    I would say that sandbox quests really enriches the story and depth of a game and in an themepark its more kill 10 rats then kill 10 orcs.

    image
  • papabear151papabear151 Owensboro, KYPosts: 96Member

    In themeparks quests tend to be the driving force, and often only path, for character progression.

     

    In sandboxes quests are just another thing to do while living in a virtual world.

     

    In themeparks quests are THE GAME, in sandboxes being in the virtual world is the game and quests are just something to do.

  • iixviiiixiixviiiix GSPosts: 836Member Uncommon

    The design of quest Is difference between offline RPG like skyrim and MMORPG.

     

    Heavy instance themepark , everyone do they own quests , no one step on other khajiit's tail .

     

    Sandbox quest : quest pop out , first one finish it get the reward , the late get nothing.

     

    For example if skyrim are sandbox mmorpg :

    Ysolda need some "Mammoth Tusk" ,

    first player bring tusks to her get some gold reward

    quest disappear , no one can do it > game world change by action of one player > sandbox

    Of course Ysolda will need some tusk again so quest will respawn after she use up all tusk again.

     

    It just the concept lol.

  • DauntisDauntis Kansas City, MOPosts: 550Member Uncommon

     

    Something I have never quite understood, WoW is pretty much the big bad scary themepark game, right? Well, I don't get it, I have never fealt that I must quest in WoW (with the exception of the Goblin, Worgen and Pandaren starter zones) there is nowhere that forces you to do quests. There are plenty of choices at every level to grind xp and there are alternate activities to questing. So what really makes WoW more or less sandbox, when you can simply ignore the quests?

    The problem is the whole Sandbox thing is so confusing and underdefined that no one can seem to say concretely what a sandbox game is.

    I would like to give an opinion on this post, but if I agree I will offend people who disagree. While if I disagree my comment will be seen as inflammatory. Either way I will get banned by this site full of the most delicate flowers in online gaming. Ban people for giving honest opinions... beautiful. Unfortunately I still like the articles.

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Posts: 1,180Member Uncommon

    Let me give this a shot.

    i played a MMO back in the day that had quest like this. is it a sandbox? who knows, what really is a sandbox? everybody has a different opinion on what it is. But i will share how questing was in this game, most will probably bash it but what ever.

    You log on and go search the land, there are portals throughout the land and inside these portals are non linear non instanced dungeons.  you go inside not knowing wtf is in there and try to work your way to the bottom, there could be jumps over acid pits, there could be locked doors and you need to find a lever to open it or a key off a mob to open it.  or maybe you need lock pick to open it, who knows?

    I can tell you who knows, other players that have been in there. thats how you got your quest info, from other players who have been in there before. Then there were more epic quest for weapons and such, how do you know about this quest? you talk to a NPC outside any town called a town crier and he gave you hints. then you figure it out and search the land for shit he was talking about.

    Or you can ask other players who have figured it out " gasp " i know right? asking others??? crasy shit...  anyways There wasnt any log in see the npc with the magic shinny thing over his head so you can set out on your epic journey to deliver mail to other npcs or collect rat tails. You were in a world with others searching the land for places, meeting new people and helping each other out.

    Todays MMO quest, log in grab all quest in the little town skip past all the text bs. head out to the X on the map, kill, collect, what ever. head back to NPC off to next little town for the same thing. other players are just in your way, its all done faster solo, and you only really " need " people for when your doing whats called a " group quest " wich is most of the time run over to the X kill a harder mob OR go into a linear dungeon that a monkey cant get lost in and kill a harder mob in that. yay fun !

  • papabear151papabear151 Owensboro, KYPosts: 96Member
    Originally posted by Dauntis

     

    Something I have never quite understood, WoW is pretty much the big bad scary themepark game, right? Well, I don't get it, I have never fealt that I must quest in WoW (with the exception of the Goblin, Worgen and Pandaren starter zones) there is nowhere that forces you to do quests. There are plenty of choices at every level to grind xp and there are alternate activities to questing. So what really makes WoW more or less sandbox, when you can simply ignore the quests?

    The problem is the whole Sandbox thing is so confusing and underdefined that no one can seem to say concretely what a sandbox game is.

    Concretely saying what it is, sure, kinda difficult. But not impossible.

    As far as wow is concerned, sure you could go grind mobs, but the mobs are typically there to fill the themepark. There are murlocs right here and a quest to kill the murlocs right there. There are bandits right here, and a quest to kill them. The game isn't a living world. The quests and world define each other in a linear and bland way.

    Now, a quest to go kill the defias when the defias weren't 10 feet to the right, but instead in a secret lair, that you didn't know the location of. Or as a random spawn somewhere in an OPEN wilds... that'd be ok. But when the zone is essentially a bent up line that you follow from quest>objective/quest>objective. Thats what's lame.

    Unfortunately quests aren't really he issue with most themeparks, it's the linearity. Even if you don't follow the quest chain, you're still going to be following the same path. Sure as a 45 warrior you didn't pick up the quest that the nearby 45 paladin did, but you're still killing the same mob because the game is a themepark, on rails, and doesn't really have much else going on for it. There was ZERO incentive for exploration, (lol.... if you call it exploration in wow) and little to no incentive to do anything else.

  • papabear151papabear151 Owensboro, KYPosts: 96Member
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf

    Let me give this a shot.

    i played a MMO back in the day that had quest like this.

    You log on and go search the land, there are portals throughout the land and inside these portals are non linear non instanced dungeons.  you go inside not knowing wtf is in there and try to work your way to the bottom, there could be jumps over acid pits, there could be locked doors and you need to find a lever to open it or a key off a mob to open it.  or maybe you need lock pick to open it, who knows?

    I can tell you who knows, other players that have been in there. thats how you got your quest info, from other players who have been in there before. Then there were more epic quest for weapons and such, how do you know about this quest? you talk to a NPC outside any town called a town crier and he gave you hints. then you figure it out and search the land for shit he was talking about.

    Or you can ask other players who have figured it out " gasp " i know right? asking others??? crasy shit...  anyways There wasnt any log in see the npc with the magic shinny thing over his head so you can set out on your epic journey to deliver mail to other npcs or collect rat tails. You were in a world with others searching the land for places, meeting new people and helping each other out.

    Todays MMO quest, log in grab all quest in the little town skip past all the text bs. head out to the X on the map, kill, collect, what ever. head back to NPC off to next little town for the same thing. other players are just in your way, its all done faster solo, and you only really " need " people for when your doing whats called a " group quest " wich is most of the time run over to the X kill a harder mob OR go into a linear dungeon that a monkey cant get lost in and kill a harder mob in that. yay fun !

    You, of course, are talking of asherons call.

     

    I find so much irony in that the game everyone on these forums tends to be screaming for is actually... asherons call. Open world, sandbox, quests, random loot, awesome crafting, unique story, non-linear progression, valuable exploration, random spawns, non-instanced dungeons, lootable pk, open world pvp, etc.

     

    The game exists, but its so dated that people won't play it and wow was so successful that no devs will risk anything otherwise to recreate it. An updated graphics and combat engine on asherons call would make the most successful MMO post-wow to date, and probably for a long time.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    A sandbox quest in an mmo is when another player needs you to go kill a bunch of wolves to get pelts so he can craft an item and sell it to another player. That crafter is a player and they pay you for them. The quest is only available as often as the crafter needs them.

    A themepark quest is an npc sends you to do the same thing and nothing else ever comes of it but a path to the next quest lights up.

  • iixviiiixiixviiiix GSPosts: 836Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by papabear151
    Originally posted by Dauntis

     

    Unfortunately quests aren't really he issue with most themeparks, it's the linearity. Even if you don't follow the quest chain, you're still going to be following the same path. Sure as a 45 warrior you didn't pick up the quest that the nearby 45 paladin did, but you're still killing the same mob because the game is a themepark, on rails, and doesn't really have much else going on for it. There was ZERO incentive for exploration, (lol.... if you call it exploration in wow) and little to no incentive to do anything else.

    You are right about linearity are main problem of instanced themeparks ,

    It like "if you want ride roller coaster , you have to ride  merry go round first and you have to go ghost house after ride roller coaster" ,

    it suck.

    Can't i just jump in ghost house then go back to the merry and strip roller coaster ?

    The linear are problem here.

    Not sandbox or themepark , the linear ruin the game.

     

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    SKYRIM is a sandbox?

    It is open world, but you follow the main quest, so nah .. it is not a sandbox.

  • iixviiiixiixviiiix GSPosts: 836Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    SKYRIM is a sandbox?

    It is open world, but you follow the main quest, so nah .. it is not a sandbox.

    it sandbox Mr narius ,

    each action of player change the world , like you chose to kill paarthurnax and the greybeards will stop support you , or when you chose to become vampire or support dawnguards .

    Each action craft the world through player's chose and that's what make a sandbox game , Mr.Narius .

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by iixviiiix
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    SKYRIM is a sandbox?

    It is open world, but you follow the main quest, so nah .. it is not a sandbox.

    it sandbox Mr narius ,

    each action of player change the world , like you chose to kill paarthurnax and the greybeards will stop support you , or when you chose to become vampire or support dawnguards .

    Each action craft the world through player's chose and that's what make a sandbox game , Mr.Narius .

    Okay so then I own allot and I mean really allot of singleplayer games that I now should consider sandbox. Since most of my singleplayer games the players actions effects the gameworld.

    My bad thinking that some of my games where Open World Games en the rest just linear enjoyable games.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,121Member Uncommon
    For me, themepark quests have no impact on the game world or your character other than to gain items and experience and to tell a story.  Sandbox quests would actually change your faction ratings with certain groups of NPCs.  Decisions made during the quest would impact the game world, for example, you choose to save or let a village burn and your decision means the village remains in game or disappears forever.  Saving a person or not, could impact the ability to get further quests down the road from that person.  You don't just get quests at hubs, they appear as you adventure or come up to you while you travel or propagate from relatives of the person you helped earlier in the game.

    image
  • PAL-18PAL-18 AnachronoxPosts: 802Member

    Epic themepark Vs sandbox quest simulator

     

    Collect 10 epic apples.Lvl 99 ,reward Sword +5 (giantslaying)

     

    Themepark: click apples on the ground (50% fail chance),spawn time 1 minute per apple.

     

    Sandbox : kick tree and collect everything in few seconds,use telekinesis ,powers of four winds and make a storm etc.

     

    Paper and pen RPG, kill quest giver and take your sword and continue you adventures.

     

     

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
    By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon

    in a sandbox (or least my sandbox) you make your own quests.

    in a themepark you go talk to an npc to get a premade quest.

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by iixviiiix
    Originally posted by nariusseldon SKYRIM is a sandbox? It is open world, but you follow the main quest, so nah .. it is not a sandbox.
    it sandbox Mr narius ,

    each action of player change the world , like you chose to kill paarthurnax and the greybeards will stop support you , or when you chose to become vampire or support dawnguards .

    Each action craft the world through player's chose and that's what make a sandbox game , Mr.Narius .


    skyrim is not a sandbox. it's an open-world rpg.

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Posts: 1,180Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by papabear151
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf

    Let me give this a shot.

    i played a MMO back in the day that had quest like this.

    You log on and go search the land, there are portals throughout the land and inside these portals are non linear non instanced dungeons.  you go inside not knowing wtf is in there and try to work your way to the bottom, there could be jumps over acid pits, there could be locked doors and you need to find a lever to open it or a key off a mob to open it.  or maybe you need lock pick to open it, who knows?

    I can tell you who knows, other players that have been in there. thats how you got your quest info, from other players who have been in there before. Then there were more epic quest for weapons and such, how do you know about this quest? you talk to a NPC outside any town called a town crier and he gave you hints. then you figure it out and search the land for shit he was talking about.

    Or you can ask other players who have figured it out " gasp " i know right? asking others??? crasy shit...  anyways There wasnt any log in see the npc with the magic shinny thing over his head so you can set out on your epic journey to deliver mail to other npcs or collect rat tails. You were in a world with others searching the land for places, meeting new people and helping each other out.

    Todays MMO quest, log in grab all quest in the little town skip past all the text bs. head out to the X on the map, kill, collect, what ever. head back to NPC off to next little town for the same thing. other players are just in your way, its all done faster solo, and you only really " need " people for when your doing whats called a " group quest " wich is most of the time run over to the X kill a harder mob OR go into a linear dungeon that a monkey cant get lost in and kill a harder mob in that. yay fun !

    You, of course, are talking of asherons call.

     

    I find so much irony in that the game everyone on these forums tends to be screaming for is actually... asherons call. Open world, sandbox, quests, random loot, awesome crafting, unique story, non-linear progression, valuable exploration, random spawns, non-instanced dungeons, lootable pk, open world pvp, etc.

     

    The game exists, but its so dated that people won't play it and wow was so successful that no devs will risk anything otherwise to recreate it. An updated graphics and combat engine on asherons call would make the most successful MMO post-wow to date, and probably for a long time.

    yeah your right AC. I still play it and love to do the quest but being a older game people wont like it because of the dated graphics. but the game itself is still so much better than what i see coming out in 2014. hard to believe nobody has copyed alot from AC. i mean the random loot and crafting system alone is light years ahead of what we see today.

    not to mention the character progression its like no other game i have tried.

  • DocBrodyDocBrody EldridgePosts: 1,820Member
    Originally posted by Dauntis

     

    Something I have never quite understood, WoW is pretty much the big bad scary themepark game, right? Well, I don't get it, I have never fealt that I must quest in WoW (with the exception of the Goblin, Worgen and Pandaren starter zones) there is nowhere that forces you to do quests. There are plenty of choices at every level to grind xp and there are alternate activities to questing. So what really makes WoW more or less sandbox, when you can simply ignore the quests?

    The problem is the whole Sandbox thing is so confusing and underdefined that no one can seem to say concretely what a sandbox game is.

    Themepark MMO= NPC driven, grinding, scripted story. It´s all a show set up for you

    Sandbox MMO = player driven, player conflict, owning and influencing the world, and the economy

     

    WoW= Themepark MMO

    EvE, Darkfall = Sandbox MMO

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,086Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by iixviiiix
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    SKYRIM is a sandbox?

    It is open world, but you follow the main quest, so nah .. it is not a sandbox.

    it sandbox Mr narius ,

    each action of player change the world , like you chose to kill paarthurnax and the greybeards will stop support you , or when you chose to become vampire or support dawnguards .

    Each action craft the world through player's chose and that's what make a sandbox game , Mr.Narius .

    That can be said of nearly all single player rpg's. IMO Dark Souls questing is less linear than Skyrim, go grab yourself a copy of Dark Souls 2 and you will see what I mean.

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  • DocBrodyDocBrody EldridgePosts: 1,820Member
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by iixviiiix
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    SKYRIM is a sandbox?

    It is open world, but you follow the main quest, so nah .. it is not a sandbox.

    it sandbox Mr narius ,

    each action of player change the world , like you chose to kill paarthurnax and the greybeards will stop support you , or when you chose to become vampire or support dawnguards .

    Each action craft the world through player's chose and that's what make a sandbox game , Mr.Narius .

    That can be said of nearly all single player rpg's. IMO Dark Souls questing is less linear than Skyrim, go grab yourself a copy of Dark Souls 2 and you will see what I mean.

    single player RPGs are player driven? Of course they are. There is only one player in the world, he better have the chance to influence the world as he wants.

    But many MMOs don´t give the chance, because of lazy design. That´s where the Themeparks come in.

    Let´s face it the concept of single player RPG only translates into massive multiplayer, if they make a sandbox MMOs out of it.

    Themepark is just a show and you are sitting in the audience, all you can do is clap for the actors, but you can´t walk up and take the role of the King

  • Not_Too_BrightNot_Too_Bright Flint, MIPosts: 18Member
    Originally posted by DocBrody
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by iixviiiix
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    SKYRIM is a sandbox?

    It is open world, but you follow the main quest, so nah .. it is not a sandbox.

    it sandbox Mr narius ,

    each action of player change the world , like you chose to kill paarthurnax and the greybeards will stop support you , or when you chose to become vampire or support dawnguards .

    Each action craft the world through player's chose and that's what make a sandbox game , Mr.Narius .

    That can be said of nearly all single player rpg's. IMO Dark Souls questing is less linear than Skyrim, go grab yourself a copy of Dark Souls 2 and you will see what I mean.

    single player RPGs are player driven? Of course they are. There is only one player in the world, he better have the chance to influence the world as he wants.

    But many MMOs don´t give the chance, because of lazy design. That´s where the Themeparks come in.

    Let´s face it the concept of single player RPG only translates into massive multiplayer, if they make a sandbox MMOs out of it.

    Themepark is just a show and you are sitting in the audience, all you can do is clap for the actors, but you can´t walk up and take the role of the King

    Which is why sandbox MMOs are niche, and will remain as such for years to come. When folks come home from work, they are looking to be entertained, not to create their own fun, let alone FFA PVP which so many sandboxes demand on having.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Themepark is just hard developer content though could be player instance like Neverwinter. This means farmer Bob will always have a farm in the shire and will offer quest to flagged eligible people.
  • deniterdeniter LappeenrantaPosts: 807Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DocBrody
    Themepark is just a show and you are sitting in the audience, all you can do is clap for the actors, but you can´t walk up and take the role of the King

    This is awesome! With your permission i'd like to use this as my signature, please. :)

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