So... did you already choose the ultimate and housing you want to have right after you leave your jail cell?
No. but neither was another class' ultimate forced on my character. (And for the record, yes, i already have my ultimates and most other skills chosen. because i put in the effort to research and test and design my character)
You HAVE to have the choice to get what you want without an effort.
Having to think about your character and having to make a choice IS effort. Being just given something without having to think about it is not.
This isn't something i would complain about if they had done it this way from the start. The complaint is mainly from them having had it done right the first time and then dumbing it down with the change. I woudln't wan't this re-developed,but the fact is that they already have the better way created.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Regardless of all the "new player confusion", classes, etc. discussion, I don't see a problem for a new player starts with weapons they are familiar with (the one they feel is most appropriate).
Later, they can switch to another weapon once they start exploring AND realising they actually can switch to other weapons.
I didn't try yet, but I can't believe they removed this. How pathetic.
So... did you already choose the ultimate and housing you want to have right after you leave your jail cell?
Seriously. The things people are complaining about these days. That's exectly what I ment about carebears killing the MMOs industry. You HAVE to have the choice to get what you want without an effort. That's what made games with Cash shops bloom. I don't blame devs- I blame the community which won't survive a single hour in a games like UO or Darkfall.
Eh, well, if I'm a carebear because I choose the "white two handed weapon lvl 1" instead of being forced into a "white sword lvl1", then surely:
1) Nothing prevents ZO from accepting there will be carebears like me and giving them the option to choose a "white [WEAPON NAME] lvl1" at the start of the game.
2) Nothing prevents hardcore players like you from choosing the "white sword lvl.1". I will even tolerate you bragging about it in chat for 10 minutes "Look, I'm hardcore, I choose a white sword lvl 1 at the start... ahaha look at all those carebears with their staves, etc."
Everyone is happy. Eagerly awaiting for your response which I'm sure will be hilarious to read.
Originally posted by DeaconX Why try to solve a problem that doesn't exist?
There are MANY negatives and from what I can see, zero positive effects of this decision to remove the weapon racks while escaping from the prison.
BEFORE: You'd run up to several weapon racks, CHOOSE the weapon you gravitate towards and go forth with that weapon of your choice.
NOW: You can choose a one handed sword. No choice, really. There you go, get out there and hold your one handed sword like EVERYONE ELSE running around.
Suddenly, the player's choice is gone here. Everyone looks the exact same. Player's are being forced to have a combat experience they may not want.
It just seems like a silly change... I think the weapon racks should absolutely come back.
The option to skip the tutorial after doing it once was a welcome move, although it never bothered me as it took a couple of minutes to get through if you rushed it.
But the uncalled for removal of the weapon racks - why? I didn't see any mass postings demanding their removal. Bring them back for launch, silly error, correct it.
I am most disheartened about the starting experience in the game. First the choice of the weapon, the abbreviated Coldharbor dungeon, and finally coming out in the main city, completely bypassing the starting islands. I do hope that we can get back to the starting zones easily.
I realize that some players couldn't play 5 minutes without being bored. The starting islands were hideous for others. Instead of changing the whole experience for everyone, why not give the bored players the option to just skip the beginning zones. Even though it could be immersion breaking, have a pop up option to "Skip the tutorial zones. You can always come back to this later." You could have this pop up right when you are leaving the first place. This way, those of us that enjoy crawling through the areas at a very slow pace can continue to do so while the bored ones can get right into the action.
Getting back to the weapon rack.....Look, I know that you can find other weapons throughout the dungeon. I loot every chest. Heck I was feeling guilty leaving that poor prophet hanging while I looked in every chest and urn. It has nothing to do with being "care bear." It does have everything to do with choices and seeing that first weapon rack with all sorts of options is sort of nice. If having a bunch of weapons is confusing to new players, again you can have a tutorial pop up that says "Any class can use any weapon. Feel free to experiment."
I appreciate that the devs are listening. Obviously they've collected data from all the surveys, they've listened on the boards. I pray that they don't sway too far in the other direction making this into a shallow, attention deficit friendly game that appeals to the gogogo mentality.
Originally posted by DeaconX Why try to solve a problem that doesn't exist?
There are MANY negatives and from what I can see, zero positive effects of this decision to remove the weapon racks while escaping from the prison.
BEFORE: You'd run up to several weapon racks, CHOOSE the weapon you gravitate towards and go forth with that weapon of your choice.
NOW: You can choose a one handed sword. No choice, really. There you go, get out there and hold your one handed sword like EVERYONE ELSE running around.
Suddenly, the player's choice is gone here. Everyone looks the exact same. Player's are being forced to have a combat experience they may not want.
It just seems like a silly change... I think the weapon racks should absolutely come back.
Because having a weapon rack in the middle of a soul prison makes no sense and actually breaks the immersion. Now one sword lying there on a table makes sense, and then as you're escaping killing things you find more off of the skeletons bodies.
What I would want them to change is make this phase for only you and not all the other players, and just have npc's showing them escaping.
Originally posted by DeaconX Why try to solve a problem that doesn't exist?There are MANY negatives and from what I can see, zero positive effects of this decision to remove the weapon racks while escaping from the prison.BEFORE: You'd run up to several weapon racks, CHOOSE the weapon you gravitate towards and go forth with that weapon of your choice.NOW: You can choose a one handed sword. No choice, really. There you go, get out there and hold your one handed sword like EVERYONE ELSE running around.Suddenly, the player's choice is gone here. Everyone looks the exact same. Player's are being forced to have a combat experience they may not want.It just seems like a silly change... I think the weapon racks should absolutely come back.
I absolutely agree!!!
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Originally posted by DeaconX Why try to solve a problem that doesn't exist?
There are MANY negatives and from what I can see, zero positive effects of this decision to remove the weapon racks while escaping from the prison.
BEFORE: You'd run up to several weapon racks, CHOOSE the weapon you gravitate towards and go forth with that weapon of your choice.
NOW: You can choose a one handed sword. No choice, really. There you go, get out there and hold your one handed sword like EVERYONE ELSE running around.
Suddenly, the player's choice is gone here. Everyone looks the exact same. Player's are being forced to have a combat experience they may not want.
It just seems like a silly change... I think the weapon racks should absolutely come back.
Because having a weapon rack in the middle of a soul prison makes no sense and actually breaks the immersion. Now one sword lying there on a table makes sense, and then as you're escaping killing things you find more off of the skeletons bodies.
What I would want them to change is make this phase for only you and not all the other players, and just have npc's showing them escaping.
Well not really, from what i remember your told to head to the forge to collect a weapon. So having a variety in a forge makes more sense than having 1 weapon laying on a table. If the quest said "find a weapon" then maybe, but it says head to the forge.
Because having a weapon rack in the middle of a soul prison makes no sense and actually breaks the immersion. Now one sword lying there on a table makes sense
Yeah, but it's not one sword. It's a forge - which i'm guessing is being used to forge weapons. There is a table with like 15 swords on it. Your all-knowing spirit guide is telling you through a magical voice in your head to "CHOOSE a weapon". And there being a sword and a mace and a bow instead of just a sword would be immersion-breaking? I weep for the fragility of your immersion
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Originally posted by Fendel84M I kind of understand where they were going with this. It gives that vibe that everyone is the same. You're not limited by choices. Your sword is just a beginning to the endless possibilities available. A new player might feel forced to make a life long choice with what weapon to use. Being only a sword removes that choice and makes you realize your weapon type doesn't ultimately matter as you can use any weapon you find.
Personally I think the bigger issue is they never should have had classes at all. That's going to confuse some new players into thinking "I'm a sorcerer I have to use a staff" etc.
I agree with this. I'd never even tried a greatsword or a inferno staff until this beta and gave me new reasons to actually go out and get what I wanted
Weapon racks were removed to address a game breaking bug where players could not loot any weapon off any rank on any character on their whole account.
Therefore they could not progress past the weapon room.
Now maybe you want to be stuck in the weapon room on launch day and never be able to move past it no matter how many new toons you make, but Zenimax decided it was best to fix the bug.
Weapon racks were removed to address a game breaking bug where players could not loot any weapon off any rank on any character on their whole account.
Therefore they could not progress past the weapon room.
Now maybe you want to be stuck in the weapon room on launch day and never be able to move past it no matter how many new toons you make, but Zenimax decided it was best to fix the bug.
Removing it is not fixing the bug.
What would you say if they removed few of your skills instead of fixing them. "oh but its such a nasty bug, well just remove those, you have plenty of other skills to use, amiright?"
Because having a weapon rack in the middle of a soul prison makes no sense and actually breaks the immersion. Now one sword lying there on a table makes sense
Yeah, but it's not one sword. It's a forge - which i'm guessing is being used to forge weapons. There is a table with like 15 swords on it. Your all-knowing spirit guide is telling you through a magical voice in your head to "CHOOSE a weapon". And there being a sword and a mace and a bow instead of just a sword would be immersion-breaking? I weep for the fragility of your immersion
I stand corrected I remember doing the quest again and thinking "They need to update this to 'find a weapon'". Still though you have plenty of chances to try out a bunch of weapons throughout the area.
Originally posted by DeaconX Why try to solve a problem that doesn't exist?
There are MANY negatives and from what I can see, zero positive effects of this decision to remove the weapon racks while escaping from the prison.
BEFORE: You'd run up to several weapon racks, CHOOSE the weapon you gravitate towards and go forth with that weapon of your choice.
NOW: You can choose a one handed sword. No choice, really. There you go, get out there and hold your one handed sword like EVERYONE ELSE running around.
Suddenly, the player's choice is gone here. Everyone looks the exact same. Player's are being forced to have a combat experience they may not want.
It just seems like a silly change... I think the weapon racks should absolutely come back.
I honestly completely disagree with you on this one. The only benefit of having it the way it was before was to allow the player to choose a weapon visually at the very beginning. I think this new feature is much more immersive and looks great. I think a table with swords/bowls/cups scattered about adds to the frenzy nature of the intro where everyone is running as fast as they can towards the exit. Having racks of perfectly arranged weapons for some reason in this prison (it isn't a barracks or anything) just didn't make a whole lot of since.
I didn't actually want to wield a single/dual handed sword, but I was able to pick up different types of weapons almost immediately as loot from the different monsters in the prison.
It should actually be the other way around. You should be able to pick one of each weapon and be able to experiment with them while looking for chests and getting out of the initial tutorial area.
When abruptly put on the mainland there should have ben some explanation that you could go directly to mainland or continue questing on the starter island. How would a first time player even know the benefits of the starter island? He might see it as another general quest and put it off for later or not do it at all, or he might want to take a quick look at the island only to realize that he can't as easily port back to the mainland.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
You guys will just whine about everything. You are like old women or 6 years old babies. Same like crying because of starting island. Maybe its not mind blowing, but still is a content to spend some time, see and do something. But peopple will just cry its boring and skip it. Then after few weeks later cry there are max lvls and have nothing to do. Dementia rule the world.
Then put your input .... in the E.S.O. Forums ..... and fill out the SURVEY ....
that's why it changed .... those who where happy didn't note it or make comments ....
and the VOCAL minority (whiners) made moomoo noises that "waaawaaa, It takes to long to leave ... Iwannawinthegameletmeoutnow!"
so they cut things out and now send you to the Mainland and you have to port BACK to the island...
You want it changed back?? (like I do)
Post in E.S.O. Forums and fill out the Survey with the things you LIKED as well as the things you think need changed.
tada !
You would have to post it in the forums cause the surveys were very specific. Like, what was the one thing you liked the most in the game. They didn't even have a text box for freeform opinions of likes and dislikes.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Originally posted by DeaconX Why try to solve a problem that doesn't exist?
There are MANY negatives and from what I can see, zero positive effects of this decision to remove the weapon racks while escaping from the prison.
BEFORE: You'd run up to several weapon racks, CHOOSE the weapon you gravitate towards and go forth with that weapon of your choice.
NOW: You can choose a one handed sword. No choice, really. There you go, get out there and hold your one handed sword like EVERYONE ELSE running around.
Suddenly, the player's choice is gone here. Everyone looks the exact same. Player's are being forced to have a combat experience they may not want.
It just seems like a silly change... I think the weapon racks should absolutely come back.
Prior to the end of the tutorial, which takes like 15 minutes... you'll probably have 2x of each weapon type drop for you.
I'm pretty sure the intent was to get people to try different weapons in the tutorial, which is does.
Except in cases like mine, where I spend entirely too long running around looking for the weapon/armor I want. I spent 30+ minutes looking for chests (granted there were lots of people doing the same thing, so there seemed to be far fewer chests around) before I gained even 1 weapon I would have been interested in using.
Comments
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
No. but neither was another class' ultimate forced on my character. (And for the record, yes, i already have my ultimates and most other skills chosen. because i put in the effort to research and test and design my character)
Having to think about your character and having to make a choice IS effort. Being just given something without having to think about it is not.
This isn't something i would complain about if they had done it this way from the start. The complaint is mainly from them having had it done right the first time and then dumbing it down with the change. I woudln't wan't this re-developed,but the fact is that they already have the better way created.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Bring the weapon racks back!
Regardless of all the "new player confusion", classes, etc. discussion, I don't see a problem for a new player starts with weapons they are familiar with (the one they feel is most appropriate).
Later, they can switch to another weapon once they start exploring AND realising they actually can switch to other weapons.
I didn't try yet, but I can't believe they removed this. How pathetic.
Eh, well, if I'm a carebear because I choose the "white two handed weapon lvl 1" instead of being forced into a "white sword lvl1", then surely:
1) Nothing prevents ZO from accepting there will be carebears like me and giving them the option to choose a "white [WEAPON NAME] lvl1" at the start of the game.
2) Nothing prevents hardcore players like you from choosing the "white sword lvl.1". I will even tolerate you bragging about it in chat for 10 minutes "Look, I'm hardcore, I choose a white sword lvl 1 at the start... ahaha look at all those carebears with their staves, etc."
Everyone is happy. Eagerly awaiting for your response which I'm sure will be hilarious to read.
The option to skip the tutorial after doing it once was a welcome move, although it never bothered me as it took a couple of minutes to get through if you rushed it.
But the uncalled for removal of the weapon racks - why? I didn't see any mass postings demanding their removal. Bring them back for launch, silly error, correct it.
I am most disheartened about the starting experience in the game. First the choice of the weapon, the abbreviated Coldharbor dungeon, and finally coming out in the main city, completely bypassing the starting islands. I do hope that we can get back to the starting zones easily.
I realize that some players couldn't play 5 minutes without being bored. The starting islands were hideous for others. Instead of changing the whole experience for everyone, why not give the bored players the option to just skip the beginning zones. Even though it could be immersion breaking, have a pop up option to "Skip the tutorial zones. You can always come back to this later." You could have this pop up right when you are leaving the first place. This way, those of us that enjoy crawling through the areas at a very slow pace can continue to do so while the bored ones can get right into the action.
Getting back to the weapon rack.....Look, I know that you can find other weapons throughout the dungeon. I loot every chest. Heck I was feeling guilty leaving that poor prophet hanging while I looked in every chest and urn. It has nothing to do with being "care bear." It does have everything to do with choices and seeing that first weapon rack with all sorts of options is sort of nice. If having a bunch of weapons is confusing to new players, again you can have a tutorial pop up that says "Any class can use any weapon. Feel free to experiment."
I appreciate that the devs are listening. Obviously they've collected data from all the surveys, they've listened on the boards. I pray that they don't sway too far in the other direction making this into a shallow, attention deficit friendly game that appeals to the gogogo mentality.
Because having a weapon rack in the middle of a soul prison makes no sense and actually breaks the immersion. Now one sword lying there on a table makes sense, and then as you're escaping killing things you find more off of the skeletons bodies.
What I would want them to change is make this phase for only you and not all the other players, and just have npc's showing them escaping.
I absolutely agree!!!
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Well not really, from what i remember your told to head to the forge to collect a weapon. So having a variety in a forge makes more sense than having 1 weapon laying on a table. If the quest said "find a weapon" then maybe, but it says head to the forge.
Yeah, but it's not one sword. It's a forge - which i'm guessing is being used to forge weapons. There is a table with like 15 swords on it. Your all-knowing spirit guide is telling you through a magical voice in your head to "CHOOSE a weapon". And there being a sword and a mace and a bow instead of just a sword would be immersion-breaking? I weep for the fragility of your immersion
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I agree with this. I'd never even tried a greatsword or a inferno staff until this beta and gave me new reasons to actually go out and get what I wanted
Weapon racks were removed to address a game breaking bug where players could not loot any weapon off any rank on any character on their whole account.
Therefore they could not progress past the weapon room.
Now maybe you want to be stuck in the weapon room on launch day and never be able to move past it no matter how many new toons you make, but Zenimax decided it was best to fix the bug.
Removing it is not fixing the bug.
What would you say if they removed few of your skills instead of fixing them. "oh but its such a nasty bug, well just remove those, you have plenty of other skills to use, amiright?"
Is a 20 min tutorial. Is this really a big deal?. NO.
Ha!
Regarding the changes, much ado about nothing, in my opinion.
I stand corrected I remember doing the quest again and thinking "They need to update this to 'find a weapon'". Still though you have plenty of chances to try out a bunch of weapons throughout the area.
Then put your input .... in the E.S.O. Forums ..... and fill out the SURVEY ....
that's why it changed .... those who where happy didn't note it or make comments ....
and the VOCAL minority (whiners) made moomoo noises that "waaawaaa, It takes to long to leave ... Iwannawinthegameletmeoutnow!"
so they cut things out and now send you to the Mainland and you have to port BACK to the island...
You want it changed back?? (like I do)
Post in E.S.O. Forums and fill out the Survey with the things you LIKED as well as the things you think need changed.
tada !
I honestly completely disagree with you on this one. The only benefit of having it the way it was before was to allow the player to choose a weapon visually at the very beginning. I think this new feature is much more immersive and looks great. I think a table with swords/bowls/cups scattered about adds to the frenzy nature of the intro where everyone is running as fast as they can towards the exit. Having racks of perfectly arranged weapons for some reason in this prison (it isn't a barracks or anything) just didn't make a whole lot of since.
I didn't actually want to wield a single/dual handed sword, but I was able to pick up different types of weapons almost immediately as loot from the different monsters in the prison.
I hope they leave this new feature the way it is.
It should actually be the other way around. You should be able to pick one of each weapon and be able to experiment with them while looking for chests and getting out of the initial tutorial area.
When abruptly put on the mainland there should have ben some explanation that you could go directly to mainland or continue questing on the starter island. How would a first time player even know the benefits of the starter island? He might see it as another general quest and put it off for later or not do it at all, or he might want to take a quick look at the island only to realize that he can't as easily port back to the mainland.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
You would have to post it in the forums cause the surveys were very specific. Like, what was the one thing you liked the most in the game. They didn't even have a text box for freeform opinions of likes and dislikes.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Except in cases like mine, where I spend entirely too long running around looking for the weapon/armor I want. I spent 30+ minutes looking for chests (granted there were lots of people doing the same thing, so there seemed to be far fewer chests around) before I gained even 1 weapon I would have been interested in using.
This space reserved for pithy comment.