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1. Realtime gaming - We dont all have the same ping, so design your game accordingly
2. 1-3 Button mashing combat systems - Give me SOME intellectual challenge when it comes to the question which button to press next.
3. Free to Play / Cash Shop / Micro Transactions / etc - Just gimme a sub already.
5. Grinds - I dont want to mass slaughter 100 rats ... or 1000 rats ... or 10000 rats ... you noticed a pattern already ?
Poorly Designed Worlds. If you have a poorly written, lackluster, generic world, it's way less likely I am going to be coming back. Given the general short shrift good writers get in all the entertainment industry vehicles, it is not surprising, but boy is it a disappointment.
Static Spawning. While it may be easier to code in, having creatures, resources, etc spawn in at the same exact place time after time leads to tons of problems. Immersion problems, camping problems, the list is large. Have critters spawn in different places in your world, and have them spawn out of player sight. Have them wander around doing stuff, rather than sitting there with a Kill Me sign on their chests. Have certain resources confined to certain areas, and have those resources play out over time. Exploring and prospecting becomes a way to open up new fields. Gives encouragement to folks who like that aspect of the games as well.
Non-consentual PvP. Been there, done that, have the scars. Sorry, it draws a bad element. Policing that element takes up too much dev energy. If I can't opt out of the PvP, I will probalby opt out of your game. And I am not alone in this.
Clunky Socializing . If you want people to socialize, make it easy for them. Don't throw up roadblocks, either in communication, or teaming. Sidekicking and mentoring were in-game techniques that were around as early as a decade ago. Figure out how to use them.
Indecisive Design. Figure out what you want the game to focus on, and then ... focus on it. I'd rather play a niche game that does what it set out to do well. You have to match your expenses to your income, but forgo the indeterminate genre sprawl, please.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Originally posted by Rayshe[/i] [b]1. The 5 minute Master. Players that play the game for 10 minutes, declare the game is "just like wow" and then troll on about it for the next year.
Honestly, you can usually tell how the game will be pretty soon in, maybe not 5 min, but pretty soon.
2. Set classes. I am a anti Altoholic, I would love to just be my one character and not need 7 different characters just incase the party needs something else. Do what TSW did, Allow each character to be everything.
Agreed, I've always hated pick one class or reroll if you want to change. I've always liked the skill system or the way FFXI does it.
3. Set Factions. Apparently in MMORPG's Traitors dont exist, Having set Races be on a specific side of the conflict without the ability to change it. People Defect, let us defect from one side to another without throwing up a Paywall via Race Reselection.
I can see this being a problem if too many people did it, but I'm sure there are ways to stop overpopulation, but I do like defecting.
4. Races being asthetic only. No, just no. It makes perfect sense that Orcs are stronger than humans, and elves are faster. This brings GOOD inbalence to the game, not bad inbalance.
Yes, I always liked certain races being better for certain classes or professions. I know devs try to make everything equal so people don't complain, but I wish they did it in more MMO's
5. No Cyberpunk Why oh why is there no cyberpunk games. The closest thing out there that isnt entirely ship based was released either before or around the same time as WoW and hasnt been updated.
Would love to see more settings explored too in MMO's, not just sci-fi or High fantasy.
I am very tired of quests. I would like to see them go back to having no quests. There would allow for more options to be available for players in game. They could jump in an see someone working their way into a dungeon and join up with them. They could just head out and go where ever they want without worrying about following a quest. They could craft/fish all day long. They could chop wood and make bows and staffs all day long. They could mine metal and make things all day long. It depends on what they want to do.
Allow competition in game for mobs and loot. This keeps items in the game rare. They actually have a meaning to people instead of just another upgrade. Having competition for mobs also stirs up the competitive desires in a person.
Get rid of items with lots of stats. The myriad of stats on items these days belittles your choice of race when leveling up. An Ogre should have an advantage at being a fighter due to size and strength. An Elf should have an advantage of being an archer because of their quickness. A certain race may have an inclination towards being smarter then another. This is all flushed down the toilet when items have lots of stats.
Get rid of the GPS. Having the patience and skill to find things should be part of the challenge. Most people these days are very reliant on GPS in real life. Part of their brain in not being developed properly because they use GPS to get around. They are not able to create maps in their heads of where they are where they are going. Not only would it help with developing that part of the brain it would also make the world feel a lot more mysterious, large, and scary.
Get rid of all the generic abilities that come in the name of balance. I look at most classes in games these days and their classes/skills are so bland it's not even enjoyable. They are usually a mish mash of each other. Nothing stands out at all. Bring back utility spells like levitate, stealth, invisibility, size change, racial illusion, walk on water, breath under water, the ability to converse in different languages and learn them. The ability to sense your direction (like s compass, but learned over time). The ability to forage for food or summon food. I'd like to see these and other things in a game again.
3. RPG combat;
4. Instancing; and
5. Linear "story" quest content.
1) Solo mmorpg: Remove every solo aspect of an mmo and dont restrict any content to level brackets. If there are levels, scale the whole world around your character(and increase difficulty based on group size) so you will always have a challenge in the entire map.
2) Do not limit classes to 1 or 2 weapons that "define" your class: thats the biggest garbage i have seen in an mmorpg. No matter what class i choose to play i should be able to use every weapon in the game and have different skills based on that weapon. Put together the skill system from TESO with the weapon system from GW2 but still allowing every class to use every weapon and vary the weapon skills based on class like GW2 (a sword has different skills on different classes)
3) Mob Tagging: This is a big issue. Let anyone hit any mob and get credit for it. Loot any corpse they attacked and loot any mineral source shared by others.
4) Mob Targetting: Any company who claims to have action combat and still requires the mob to be targeted or highlighted in order to use a skill is a big fat liar. A true action combat can perform every single attack and ability skill without having a target. Right now all these action mmos out there are all tab target with a reticle replacing the tab button. Even tab target got evolved with GW2 ground target and it works more naturally. So yeah, please no more mob targeting to use spells.
5) QUESTING: in caps because its to me the most important mmo killer. Stop making the same questing from 15 years ago. That old questing system is what is hurting the most all these mmos that come out. No matter how many things the devs change in their games they always feel the same because they keep adding the same boring questing that has no purpose other than giving exp to the player. Thats a major failure at this point in time if you keep it in your game and expect the game to be fun and successful. Questing covers 100% of a PvE mmorpg. So that is the first thing developers need to brainstorm and come up with a new questing to get everyone through the story of the game and forward.
1. Cash shop centered game design
2. Cut scenes and voice overs
3. Daily / weekly quests
4. Quest hub leveling
5. Instanced dungeons
2: Fed ex quests
3: Static classes
4: Gear Treadmill raiding
5: Lack of incentive to explore.
Playing: War Thunder, World of Warcraft, and Grim DawnWaiting on:Everquest Next and The Black Desert
I will leave some obvious things out and talk about some aspects that are not so frequently discussed on this forum (maybe I am the only one that is tired of them or maybe some of you can relate to them).
I will discuss just two that I find interesting (not that I am tired just of these two).
1) The games do not make sense
I understand that the games are mostly fantasy, but even fantasy can make sense, right. How come that I start killing wolves or boars or some weak humanoids, then at level 5 I am already killing huge dragon like monsters, then at level 8 I am again killing boars, then again some huge monsters that look like they can kill you with one hit, then I again kill wolves, etc etc.
I mean what the hell. My point is that I am supposed to be gradually gaining strength in an RPG. Why are we not killing corresponding monsters. Is it only me or the way this is designed in most MMOs lacks any logic? To me, it makes the game significantly less credible which in turn has negative impact on immersion.
2) You start as a hero
I start the game, play for a few hours, reach 10th level and already hold a huge glowing sword and wear majestic armor sets made of precious materials. I would love to start in a rather empty world as a peasant with no property. No wait, I want it to take some work to even become a peasant. I would appreciate if it was possible in some game to give the players long term objectives towards which they would have to work together to achieve them.
It should take time to get materials, make tools, build houses / villages, become sustainable with food and materials for tools / simple weapons / armors. It should take time for you to even get your hands on some crappy wooden sword and armor made of leather. It should take a year what in current MMOs take an hour.
This should not hold in all MMOs, the casual ones can stay the way they are, but there should be some variety, I think.
Anyone has any opinion on this?
1. Forced, No Choice Gameplay:
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
1) static spawn mob grind
2) forced socialization
3) long travel
4) harsh dead penalty
5) open world pvp
Originally posted by nariusseldon 1) static spawn mob grind 2) forced socialization 3) long travel 4) harsh dead penalty 5) open world pvp
You've never even experienced these things from the sounds of it and this is a discussion on what you don't want in current MMOs. None of these things exist in current MMOs so it's pointless in listing them.
Originally posted by Flyte27 Originally posted by nariusseldon 1) static spawn mob grind 2) forced socialization 3) long travel 4) harsh dead penalty 5) open world pvp
I was going to ask which games including these features does he play. I may want to check them out.
OWPvP + harsh death penalty + long travel...sounds quite good, for me.
I don't get what is this mode of making an MMORPG to be played solo. A good MMO, for me, should always push players to play in group, and levelling, for example, shouldn't be done in solo. I can understand that people want to play solo, there are super games just for them.
Now even crafting, that was something that should make people help each other, is a solo activity.
"You're the super hero this world need and as you see, there are 26735 heroes just like you"
Imo, scenarizing dungeons or levelling has never been a good idea, what's the point of being the unique hero if you know that every players are just like you ? Guild Wars 1 (can't believe I have to put a "1" next to Guild Wars) handled that pretty well saying that the group is actually a special one, like the fellowship of the ring are special heroes.
3. Fast-instantaneous travel
It breaks the immersion, the world, instead of a giant and massive epic land where you have to travel to places, is turned into a giant sandbox where you go there and there to do your activity.
4. PvE and PvP are clearly separated
5. I don't have a 5, I'd say "smoother classes"
1. Aggrobased Trinity combat that turns fights into matters of choreography rather than strategy and tactics. Add to this important fights where the opponent(s) acts identically each fight and you have a situation where you don't have to make any actual decisions during the fight itself as long as you have learned the dancesteps from a YouTube video.
2. Any game where character progression is the biggest focus . Usually games where you really can't affect or change anything other than your own character.
3 Levelbased character progression.
4 Static worlds and societies that you can't change in any way.
5 Small worlds with no room for exploration that can be traveled from one side to the other in less than a real time day. Includes any means of instant travel like summons, gates and other long range teleportation.
Instanced areas - some instances are ok and needed but games are relying way too much on these areas. Needs to be more open world.
Queue systems - Dungeon finders and any other kind of grouping system need to go. They just bring out the worst in people and are anti-community builders.
Fast leveling - Levels need to take time to achieve, max level should not be attainable to a minimum of month 6 of playing. Endgame should not be the focus.
Less Solo content - solo content should be for farming, and improving your character skills in crafting and gathering. All other content should be group oriented to complete.
Bring back the economy - Gold should be worked hard for, games nowadays hand out gold and exp for everything. Theres no need to farm because currency is irrelevant.
Originally posted by coretex666 Originally posted by Flyte27 Originally posted by nariusseldon 1) static spawn mob grind 2) forced socialization 3) long travel 4) harsh dead penalty 5) open world pvp
EQ & UO .. still running. I have been sick of these things in that games for more than a decade now.
1. The community/player base
2. Pushing PvP on Devs
3. The community/player base
4. The term Sandbox and forcing dev's to try and focus on it
5. The community/player base
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
1. Players are NOT XP rewarded for maximizing their group size. Imagine how that one little change would affect socialization in the genre.
2. Players end up more often soloing, or only grouping to overcome a particular challenge because the game is based on questlines. I've been in a few titles where a few quests existed for specific things, but the main hub of xp came from filling a group and taking out packs of mobs. Again, socialization vs solo play.
3. I hate that most mmorpgs have repeats of classes and oftentimes races - yet they still fabricate some mythical story that is called lore. Seeing that my warrior is the same as your warrior, my ranger is the same as your ranger, my race is the same as your race, and so on, makes a game mediocre at best and lacking in imagination.
4. I hate that it is assumed that people do NOT put up walls to protect what they own, or the guards, if they even exist for more than information/quest purposes, are lifeless. Ever play Evequest and such? Pvp server or not, you can just walk into most towns without passing active guards or defenses? This is nonsense and lazy on the part of the developers. And don't get me started on a player or mob running to kill me past lifeless guards.
5. Anything that causes stratification between players. If my class isn't considered valuable for xyz parts of the game, then why the fekk does it exist in such a manner? If I need a particular gear score to enter your group or be welcomed to a team...this is a fault of the developer where skill and the fun of socialization has been processed into something lifeless and mechanical.
1- Anything that WoW done before
C'mon this is obvious.
2- Junk Lore, no real content
Giving more bullshit creativity while hiding in shadows about real fixes& consumable content.
3- Lack of gameplay depth
Everybody is a reflection of somebody else.You are a hero or a savior as much as the next guy.
4- Lack of dev connection
Announcing bullshit events, bullcrap twitches while sushing about development process.
5- Huge prices & No prices
It's shit on two sides of the same stick.When they name a price, they name it in the name of god, when they don't it's in the name of the devil.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by coretex666 Originally posted by Flyte27 Originally posted by nariusseldon 1) static spawn mob grind 2) forced socialization 3) long travel 4) harsh dead penalty 5) open world pvp
But now you can be quite happy as these features pretty much disappeared from MMOs, right?
I dont mean it as an offense. Most people state features / aspects that are prevalent in most MMOs released during last decade. You say you are tired of features that last appeared in games released at least a decade ago. I would be happy if I were you. If it makes any sense.
1) Solo based gameplay.
2, 3, 4 & 5) See above.
While there are possible good implementations of PVP on the horizon, the vast majority of PVP in games at present is, in a word, trash. The main reason it is trash is because there is no POINT to it. It's senseless murder masquerading as something useful in a game that long ago stopped trying to be a world simulation. This is exacerbated because long ago, #2 was chosen...
2. Ignoring Griefers
Mods not using the banhammer when people began to ruin other's game experiences, whether by griefing or exploiting. Now its routinely expected that exploiters win in almost every game. Botters bot, hackers hack, script kiddies automate everything, and real players suffer for it. Ban them. Ban them with the intensity of 1000 suns. And when they post on the forums claiming their innocence, call them out by name with proof of their deeds.
3. Overly-busy raid environments
Raids have become twitch-based enterprises in a lot of games, with stacks upon stacks of things to watch that are beyond the capability of any player without several raid add-ons to guide them. That is a problem.
4. Voice chat
If your game is so complicated that VC is needed, its too complicated. I have neither the time nor the inclination to listen to other people's music, the heavy-breathing idiot who isn't smart enough to turn on PTT, the neglecting mother with 16 screaming children in the background, and that one imbecile who feels the need to shriek everything at the top of their lungs.
5. Roleplay (or lack thereof)
I don't care that people who can't stand the idea of roleplaying have taken over portions of gaming in RPG's. They're welcome to stay, but put actual RP tools into the games again. That's what they were made for, its what they were made from, and if people can't handle that without trolling, see #2.
1. Lack of things to do that are not combat-related.
FF14 had things about chocobo breeding, racing, cooperating to build airships, etc. (none of that is in yet, but it would be very nice). More things to do or participate in that is simply for fun (and optional), and have nothing to do with combat. Even crafting falls into this, since too much of crafting is "craft this so you can fight better."
I've recently found myself leveling gathering classes before anything else since it gives me a reason to run around, explore the world and make progress without having to focus on slaughtering every living thing in front of me.
2. You are the savior/chosen one!
Many have mentioned this as well, and I could only repeat what they've said.
3. Every NPC tells you how the world and X animal is so dangerous. So you go out and can effortlessly slaughter 100 of them.
This one really bugs me. I suppose this falls into the "soloer world" people have mentioned, but I don't mean to really focus down on that. I just can't take the world seriously when all the lore speaks of how dangerous the monsters are, yet they're complete and utter pushovers.
If you don't want your monsters to be hard, that's fine. But don't try to paint them out as such with your lore and NPC chatter. Treat them as they are: minor annoyances and nuisances, not big, bad serious threats that are so dangerous to take out.
4. The vast majority of the world monsters are the same.
That level 12 Wyvern, that level 33 bandit-mage, that level 48 darksun-titanium-hide-gigantoad; they're all finely tuned so that when you finally encounter them, their attacks all take out the same % of your health, they all have the same strategy (stay still and auto attack you), and they're all ultimately just as easy as one another. Their only difference is they look different while doing it. It's a shallow difference, and it's boring.
5. [This is fluff] Worlds that feel completely static
You have your towns, your cities, your camps. And they all speak of their trade routes, supply routes, whatever. But it's never there. There's never any ships simply sailing to and from the port cities. There's never any traveling merchant caravans simply riding between the towns, never even any messengers, there's nothing. Just the same static NPCs staying the same place until the end of time.
No reason to ever return to any of those camps once you're done with the quests in the zone, since they're is ultimately nothing interesting about them.
1. Cash shops.
3. Quest hubs with npc-s exclamation marks on top of their heads. Extremely generic quests with complete handholding (marks on minimap etc).
4. Memememe generation that pollutes every MMO these days. Everything gets watered down so everyone should be able to do and get everything.
5. Worlds of the size of a shoe box with minimum incentives to explore it - worlds are static so there's no point going back anyway.