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Why Players/Devs Dont Like Open World PVP?

davc123davc123 sloPosts: 371Member

why devs dont like open world pvp ?  almost all new/old games are  with arena pvp

for me is pvp arena boring 

enjoyed a lot of more  with open world pvp (Lineage 2  / A rcheage)

Hope any good game coming soon with open world pvp / pk

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Comments

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,262Member Uncommon

    They are coming. Everywhere you look, from EQN:L to SotA, people are asking for a in depth pvp experience. ESO will be a hit because of Cyrodiil. Most importantly is the new generation of gamers. They want it. 

     

    There is no way you can get a 13 year old kid to sit down and do some quests. Everyone from boys to girls in their generation PvPs. 

     

    Until someone can come up with something other than quests, and dungeons for PvE content, the demand for that  stuff will continue fade.

  • sunandshadowsunandshadow Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon
    For players who don't like PvP, open-world PvP is more intrusive than arena PvP.
    I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story.  So PM me if you are starting one.
  • Dr_ShivinskiDr_Shivinski Seattle, WAPosts: 259Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sunandshadow
    For players who don't like PvP, open-world PvP is more intrusive than arena PvP.

    If developers would balance the risk/reward systems of open pvp games better then I'm sure the PVP averse wouldn't feel so alienated. There should also be intelligent ways to avoid PVP if you wish. EVE has local chat and directional scanning and if you use the two intelligently you can avoid most ganks. I don't know how a fantasy game would translate these tools but I'm sure they could find a way.

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  • funyahnsfunyahns michigan city, INPosts: 315Member
     Because it only takes a handful of idiots to drive off paying customers.
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by funyahns
     Because it only takes a handful of idiots to drive off paying customers.

    This sums it up nicely.

     

    Puts too much power in the hands of internet trolls that simply want to ruin everybody else's experience, with the shield of the internet to protect them from doing so and getting rewarded to troll.

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  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Because open PVP expose players to lose/defeat, breaking their ilusions of power and strenght that slaughter of dumb/weaker npcs brings. Open PVP demands a little more atention, mental work, training, study of the character and smartness in general, which alienates the majority of mmo players.

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

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  • CromicaCromica West Fargo, NDPosts: 657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by funyahns
     Because it only takes a handful of idiots to drive off paying customers.

    This Exactly.

     

    It always ends up being, lets get a couple max level players and go kill people in the starter zones. These people should be banned permanently.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon
    Why? One word says it all Goonies... ^^  Because some people get their jollies from ruining the play experience of other people.  That tends not to be good for business in the western markets.
  • trixtrix Orlando, FLPosts: 55Member

    These games are few and far between and amazing to catch on to early the latest one I have been following and telling many guilds about that I played with and against in shadowbane about this new title which should fill the gap pretty well. It's called albion online or ao www.albiononline.com there is going to be a alpha test on March 24th 2014 which you can sign up for on their site. 

     

    Check it out, everything in the game is crafted from materials that need to be gathered from mining resources. There is full loot pvp and your guild can build and siege other peoples cities.

    _____________

    Darkfall.

    -Full loot PvP.
    -ONE world, ZERO instances.
    -Guild v Guild city sieging.
    -No factions limiting PvP, PK
    anyone anywhere and take all their items.
    -FPS style combat player twitch skill not items!
    -No levels a new player can kill a veteran.
    -Being developed by gamers who got sick of
    playing other peoples retarded mmo's.

    www.Darkfallonline.com

  • Sk1ppeRSk1ppeR PlovdivPosts: 511Member

    It's because of all assholes that go to zerg low level zones and make a bitter first impression of a game. Open World PvP is ONLY acceptable IF there is consequence in killing a player that does not fight back. The whole need of this meaningless PvP (other than beating up noobs and bragging about it) is because somebody stole your mob and you lost your loot, or you just want to jerk around. Gw2 has it right ... you hit, you loot. Nobody can touch your mining node, neither strip you off of your event effort if you've shown effort. 

     

    As someone already said in this forum awhile ago, there is open world PvP in real life too, that doesn't mean you go to hospitals to kill babies. There are laws, and then there's the police that fucks you up if you break the law ESPECIALLY if violent. If a game is to implement such system then I'm all up for it. Nope, EVE Online's police system is not good enough because the game allows you to be 1-shotted rather easily. And that's a load of bullshit. Now if the police was fining you or killing your pod too and not only your cheap ship, that would make them actually viable. The way it is now, large corporation can wreck havok inside Jita, one of the game's largest player hubs  

    Idk about you but I don't like feeling paranoid every single step that I make. 

    Lineage 2 had awesome pvp because of the flag/karma systems. And the fact that if you aren't stupid nobody can loot your hard-earned items. 

     

    Oh and lets be honest, the only reason you enjoy open world pvp is because you can attack unsuspecting foe :) and you hate arenas because people are usually prepared for you and its not that easy for you, admit it :) 

  • ikcinikcin AmberPosts: 620Member Common
    Originally posted by Cromica
    Originally posted by funyahns
     Because it only takes a handful of idiots to drive off paying customers.

    This Exactly. 

    It always ends up being, lets get a couple max level players and go kill people in the starter zones. These people should be banned permanently.

    There is a very easy way to avoid gangs, it is called Personal killing penalty. There was no high level gangs in Lineage 2. In fact there was other limitations too, like PvP level gap penalty, so it was impossible high levels to attack low level players.  It depends on devs to make open PvP good experience for all. And in fact it gives more fun than arenas. You can fight for spot, raid boss, loot or in guild wars, so it makes PvP something funny, not like repetitive arena grind. But most casual RPG players who play MMOs are afraid from open world PvP. I know such farmers, they don't like competition and PvP. So there is players for every game. But arenas are really stupid, better devs to make game with no PvP, than such with arenas.

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  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow TurkuPosts: 1,187Member Common

    Open world PvP is and has always been open world PK.

    Having played enough Lineage 2 I can say that it's always gank or be ganked.

    Instanced PvP provides a 'fair fight'.

  • Sk1ppeRSk1ppeR PlovdivPosts: 511Member
    Originally posted by ikcin
    Originally posted by Cromica
    Originally posted by funyahns
     Because it only takes a handful of idiots to drive off paying customers.

    This Exactly. 

    It always ends up being, lets get a couple max level players and go kill people in the starter zones. These people should be banned permanently.

    There is a very easy way to avoid gangs, it is called Personal killing penalty. There was no high level gangs in Lineage 2. In fact there was other limitations too, like PvP level gap penalty, so it was impossible high levels to attack low level players.  It depends on devs to make open PvP good experience for all. And in fact it gives more fun than arenas. You can fight for spot, raid boss, loot or in guild wars, so it makes PvP something funny, not like repetitive arena grind. But most casual RPG players who play MMOs are afraid from open world PvP. I know such farmers, they don't like competition and PvP. So there is players for every game. But arenas are really stupid, better devs to make game with no PvP, than such with arenas.

    Oh please cut the private server crap. The only protection you get in L2 is until lvl 5 and even now that's gone. As soon as you go out of Talking island you can be killed by lvl 99. But sure nobody would want to stain their Pk score with lowbies. 

    The more I play old school MMOs, the more I find the loot theft an idiotic mechanic. Maybe I'm spoiled by Gw2 idk, but having someone hijack you a raid you've waited for weeks or hit your mob just enough so you would get no loot is just a load of bullshit. Don't tell me I'm wrong. I played this game for 7+ years and it went F2P for a reason. 

  • Sk1ppeRSk1ppeR PlovdivPosts: 511Member
    Originally posted by GoldenArrow

    Open world PvP is and has always been open world PK.

    Having played enough Lineage 2 I can say that it's always gank or be ganked.

    Instanced PvP provides a 'fair fight'.

    Nobody of Open World PvP evangelists wants that. This way they are coming at a prepared opponent. That's not fun to them because there is relatively high chance for them to click "To Village" xD 

    Even in Lineage 2 PvP arenas were mostly empty. 

  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    Looked at ESO soem time ago and it dint seem to be something i liked.....
    Last beta i got in and it totaly suprised me, Cyrodill is A W E S O M E

    WvW is something that needs to hit the sweetspot and Zenimax just did that.
    Dint think i would liked it as GW2 became so boring with zerging empty keeps over and over and over again.....

    The big diffrence is that ESO has healers, and i just happen to love healing :)
    I have no idea how this will turn out, as all the mmo's i bought past 7 years were all flops or outright awfull waiste of money.
    So i might be wrong again, but anything is better then WoW / GW2 atm so ESO might fill that gap of pvp needs :)

    EQN i have no clue about....some say its going the path of Eve Online ^^ that would be EPIC !
    Wildstar looks more like WoW in regards to 10vs10 and 15vs15 altough fun ! i much rather play WvW in epic scaled battles.

    Lets hope it doesnt flop as we realy need to get more mmo's with open world pvp instead of arena style duals.

  • LissylLissyl Peru, INPosts: 271Member Common
    Because of exploiters and griefers.  Find 1,000 PVP-hating PVE'ers that have given PVP a legitimate shot, and I'll lay good money that at least 85% of them will answer one of those or a derivative of the same.
  • Swids2010Swids2010 plymouthPosts: 244Member

    I get the impression most people that want Open world PVP don't want a fair fight and instead more the ability to one shot as many noobs as they can. Arena type BG's are there too give you a fair fight everyone there is willing to fight and die.

    But then again people killing the idiots that hunted noobs gave me a lot of fun in Tera was part of a guild that hunted these people had a lot of fun doing it and keeping lower levels playing.

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  • Sk1ppeRSk1ppeR PlovdivPosts: 511Member
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Looked at ESO soem time ago and it dint seem to be something i liked.....
    Last beta i got in and it totaly suprised me, Cyrodill is A W E S O M E

    WvW is something that needs to hit the sweetspot and Zenimax just did that.
    Dint think i would liked it as GW2 became so boring with zerging empty keeps over and over and over again.....

    The big diffrence is that ESO has healers, and i just happen to love healing :)
    I have no idea how this will turn out, as all the mmo's i bought past 7 years were all flops or outright awfull waiste of money.
    So i might be wrong again, but anything is better then WoW / GW2 atm so ESO might fill that gap of pvp needs :)

    EQN i have no clue about....some say its going the path of Eve Online ^^ that would be EPIC !
    Wildstar looks more like WoW in regards to 10vs10 and 15vs15 altough fun ! i much rather play WvW in epic scaled battles.

    Lets hope it doesnt flop as we realy need to get more mmo's with open world pvp instead of arena style duals.

    [mod edit]  Do you honestly think that Gw2 was a zergfest when it launched? People just figured how to maximize points. Same will happen on TESO. People will always pick the safest way to deal with things. Of course that is if TESO ever gets the concurency Gw2 does in WvW :)

  • skyline385skyline385 BangalorePosts: 564Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by funyahns
     Because it only takes a handful of idiots to drive off paying customers.

    This sums it up nicely.

     

    Puts too much power in the hands of internet trolls that simply want to ruin everybody else's experience, with the shield of the internet to protect them from doing so and getting rewarded to troll.

    Never thought i would ever agree with MMOExposed but yea, what he says is true.

    I loved GW2's WvW even if it got Zergy at times but because Cyrodil is so huge and the number of players are limited at only 2000 max which is the number for a worst case scenario (guests, campaign balancing by server, etc.), i am already worried about the grieving that will ensue. Just look at some of the trolls on this site if you want an example of how bad some people can get.

    My plan for Cyrodil is to join a good guild and mostly roam with them. I don't want to kill my brain cells because of some "people".

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  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    I'm a PvPer and I loathe open world PvP. The action is too infrequent and poor. Great majority of engagements are bound to be one-sided steamrolls. Its just boring.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • berenimberenim KasselPosts: 134Member Uncommon

     I guess it has several reasons: First the mindsets are different. PvEers are more for "friendly competition" (bar elitists in both camps). More like two guys shaking hands after a good match. Also PvEers usually have more achieving and construction in mind, co-op play (sometimes turning into anti co-op, if they are so much a achiever they want to check everyone and everybody so they achiev everything at max efficiency). Bar elitists the tone is usually more friendly, too.

     PvPers usually are more about competition, the tone is harsher, they play more quick and dirty (not in a negative way, but PvP matches last shorter than levelling from 1 - 50 usually :)). More like boxers, wrestlers, judokas whatever wanting to get the other down. They are more "killers" speaking in Bartle. So what happens when a killer/achiever meets an socialiser/achiever? The shit hits the fan. The intersts are diametrical to each other. one will say "watch your back more!" and the other "you want sheep to slaughter". The one who has to compete at work all day and want to relax in an MMORPG just doesn't want to twitch and be anxious about any other character, he want to achieve something with friends. So to say. The one wants to be able to attack anyone anywhere and always watch his back, the other wants to achievbe something and relax. Can't work out.

     That's why PvP usually is optional. One Jerk can drive away 10 customers, who tell 5 friends in average about their bad experience, leading to 10 lost acutal customers and 40 lost potential customers. People do not mind others fighting around them (I didn't in AO), they mind being harrased and ganked. Also the lack of real risk on gankers side is a problem. Ganker walks in, shots newbies, gets downed after an hour or so, respawns and walks away. No real risk for misbeahviour. If being a slaughtering maniac would have consequences up to not being able to even enter the tiniest village with guards things would turn out differently. Or even guards/police whater imprisoning a character for a month gametime. ATM consequences are just on the victims side.

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  • NecropsieNecropsie BursaPosts: 142Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sk1ppeR

    Oh and lets be honest, the only reason you enjoy open world pvp is because you can attack unsuspecting foe :) and you hate arenas because people are usually prepared for you and its not that easy for you, admit it :) 

    Actually, this. When i read a post about "i want open world pvp so much" , all i can think is "ah he means he wants a game where he can gank newbies, call them noobs, carebears and ruin the game for everyone". 

    No one is stupid. You may be a no-lifer with nothing else to do then gank newbies but i am not. I admit it, i am a sheep. Not a wolf. I will not play and pay for a game if some stupid asshole easily kills me, gets my loot and walks away with it. This is not fun. Games are for fun, remember?

    If you are really in to world pvp that much, why dont you try Darkfall and/or Mortal Online? Is it because.. there are no sheeps in those games and everybody is a wolf?

    Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,901Member Uncommon
    Devs don't typically like anything that allows another player to ruin someone's gaming experience. We've seen it since UO and SWG, there's nothing a AAA studio will jump at fixing faster than an aspect that allows another to control someones time in game. Be it camping, ganking,  intrusive objects etc..

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • tixylixtixylix gfff, TNPosts: 1,208Member Uncommon

    Look at Dayz and Rust, open FFA PVP is very popular.

     

    For me personally if an MMO doesn't have open world PVP, I wont play it as it removes anything dynamic from happening. It is just fun to troll each other and the majority of people enjoy it, I don't get the mind set of being scared of loss, it just creates a boring static game where you can accomplish everything. I'd much rather have full loot and FFA PVP where you can lose everything, after a few deaths you stop getting attached to good loot and you become smarter about what you are willing to risk losing. This in turn gives certain items way more value as they become rare because people do not want to lose them. 

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,979Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    They are coming. Everywhere you look, from EQN:L to SotA, people are asking for a in depth pvp experience. ESO will be a hit because of Cyrodiil. Most importantly is the new generation of gamers. They want it. 

     

    There is no why you can get a 13 year old kid to sit down and do some quests. Everyone from boys to girls in their generation PvPs. 

     

    Until someone can come up with something other than quests, and dungeons for PvE content, the demand for that  stuff will continue fade.

    PVP in ESO is not open world, Cyrodill is just a very large arena, with unrestricted access. (not saying it's bad)

    Fact is, few games are being designed around open world PVP, don't point to EQN, best you'll get there are PVP servers which won't be designed for it like EVE is, so they'll largely fail as most PVP servers on PVE centric games do.

    Yeah, there's some indie titles such as Albion Online, CU and some others, so I have hope for some interesting games, but the AAA space still looks more like Wildstar.

    Actually though, come to think of it, what's currently still  out there in the AAA space these days?  Star Citizen?

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

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