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Do People Actually like MMO's?

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember Posts: 26,682 Rare
    Originally posted by Flyte27
     

    Again we move to the cusp of the matter.  What you are saying here is that single player/co op games give you the experience you desire.  You want to turn MMOs into single player/coop games.  It makes very little sense IMO.  That is not what massively multi player is all about.  It's about having a world where you all co exist together in the same place and have to learn to get along with one another.

    Yes, I am.

    And i am saying if devs want to cater to me, make MMOs more like a SP game. If not, i will seek my entertainment elsewhere.

    Whether it makes sense or not, depending on what audience MMO devs want. And since many MMOs are already solo-friendly and lobby like, why not go all the way and incorporate good SP story elements.

    Remember that it is really not me that ask devs to make MMOs like solo-games. I couldn't care less .. cause i have SP games to play. It is devs who want to cater to the solo crowd. And if so, i am giving them advice of how to do it better.

     

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember Posts: 20,724 Epic
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    The main problem for me is questing is worse then grinding mobs used to be.  There are many quests are all of them are very similar.  Past a certain point it's no longer fun to continue completing these quests.  I know around Wrath of the Lich King and Burning Crusade in WoW i got so sick of questing I couldn't do it anymore.  That is why I'd like to see an MMO that has no instances and there is a very limited amount of quests.  You just go in and do activities like crafting, killing mobs, going into dungeons, fishing, hanging out, or whatever it is you want to do.

    I agree.

    The big issue for me is that I like to "do things". But quest mmos' have you doing small bits of things and then have you run here and run there and run here and run there.

    Nothing enjoyable in that for me.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember Posts: 26,682 Rare
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    The main problem for me is questing is worse then grinding mobs used to be.  There are many quests are all of them are very similar.  Past a certain point it's no longer fun to continue completing these quests.  I know around Wrath of the Lich King and Burning Crusade in WoW i got so sick of questing I couldn't do it anymore.  That is why I'd like to see an MMO that has no instances and there is a very limited amount of quests.  You just go in and do activities like crafting, killing mobs, going into dungeons, fishing, hanging out, or whatever it is you want to do.

     No .. the issue with questing is that they are not like SP games enough. Dishonored, Bioshock and games like that have great scripting and stories.

    MMORPGs should try to do that in instances .. they need MORE instances not less. 

    Agreed. Instancing and phasing, done properly, make everything better.  There is no reason we need to ever see players we aren't grouped with in a PvE area, so there is no credible argument for having everything (or even much of anything) be non-instanced and in an identical phase.

    And since everything is controlled in an instance, there is no reason not to borrow good questing techniques like triggered scripting events, good animation story telling, and so on ....

  • RavingRabbidRavingRabbid Virginia beach, VAMember Posts: 1,150 Uncommon

    If you read these forums No. People like the concept of MMO's,  but since the games aren't tailored to them specifically they berate them in beta's. Sad really.

    You have 2 choices. Play a game or don't play a game while waiting for that perfect game that wont come.

    All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
    Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes

  • DEAD.lineDEAD.line LisbonMember Posts: 424
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    The main problem for me is questing is worse then grinding mobs used to be.  There are many quests are all of them are very similar.  Past a certain point it's no longer fun to continue completing these quests.  I know around Wrath of the Lich King and Burning Crusade in WoW i got so sick of questing I couldn't do it anymore.  That is why I'd like to see an MMO that has no instances and there is a very limited amount of quests.  You just go in and do activities like crafting, killing mobs, going into dungeons, fishing, hanging out, or whatever it is you want to do.

     

    No .. the issue with questing is that they are not like SP games enough. Dishonored, Bioshock and games like that have great scripting and stories.

    MMORPGs should try to do that in instances .. they need MORE instances not less.

     

    Those aren't quests, they're main storylines. MMORPGs already tried that, namely TOR, and not only did it prove way to expensive  for mmos to put out new updates with that type of content, but people hated how SP oriented it was.

    GW2's open world events were praised while it's instanced storyline was slammed, just as an example.  

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILMember Posts: 1,640 Uncommon
    I like being online in a simulated world with other players role playing.  MMO is the only close thing I have to that.  2nd Life or IMVU would be boring.  I need to do something that doesn't cost irl money to keep occupied.  I get caught up in everything about mmo's - questing, rifts/fates, dungeons, etc, that isn't really what I'm there for.  I like being in a guild and listening to peeps talk about, "hey, my wife just had a baby 10lbs, etc, etc, etc."  I'm in a guild now that used to be some kind of facebook fandom, lol.  Nice peeps tho.  What I really want is a sims type simulated medieval/fantasy world with players, pets, farm, and designing.  But without having to pay in real life cash for the clothes/furniture/etc player's design.  I'd also like to see a world that went on forever with no limits; zones okay.  Maybe a world people created as well as making the clothing etc.  I don't want to loose killing.  Sims series (not an mmo) by EA has everything I would hope for except no mobs to kill.  Blood, gore, and violence of a PvE nature grand scaled would be nice.  Do I like the mmo I'm playing now?  Yeah, it'll do.  For now.
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember Posts: 11,155 Rare

    When i started playing FFXi on release,i was in a static and i think i can speak for others we were having a lot of FUN.

    Anyone that remembers vanilla FFXI knows it was the biggest grind game going with a real stingy economy.Here is the deal,NOT once did i or anyone else in my static ever mention GRIND or boring,we were simply having FUN playing not only with our characters but in a group setting.FFXI was a game where by you did not railroad quests,you killed mobs to build your skills and gain experience as your class.

    I think it was the fact you fought enemies 5-7/8/9/10+ levels above your level,so combat was VERY challenging.Also the game was designed to group,everything was group oriented from buffs to debuffs to player>player combos using the Renkai and Magic Burst systems.

    Also what added to the fun was we actually got to enjoy each level and each piece of gear because leveling was so slow.IMO not much fun if you get some cool new item and you out level it in 1 day or less,kind of meaningless if you ask me.

    What kind of terms have we heard since the inception of WOW? GRIND,raiding,L33t,power leveling,END game ect ect.It really seems that since Wow came into fruition at the exact same time so many NEW gamer's were jumping on the MMO bandwagon,it sort of embedded a weak sense of what a true MMORPG should be about into their minds.

    I also believe it is without question that linear questing is NOT fun,you spend tons of time just running back n forth or to find that next quest instead of having FUN playing your character with other people.All we have heard the last several years since Wow ,is END GAME,so obviously players don't give a cahoots about the linear questing.If there were no levels in these games,nobody would do the linear quests,at least VERY few would.

     

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • cinoscinos LondonMember Posts: 963

    I like the "idea" of mmo's.

    They play out so well in my head.

  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide SwedenMember Posts: 711 Uncommon

    mmo's are the only type of games i enjoy.. i dont get mad because new mmo's copy older mmo's or any of that i truly enjoy it.

    i like the versatility. i can play solo, i can play with others, i can pvp etc. they just got alot more to offer than single player games.

    i just think people expect too much from it.. i mean just because it's an mmo and you're surrounded by people it does'nt mean you have to interact with them. it means that the option is there if you so wish and that's great.

    to me it's like an all you can eat buffé.

    kek

  • TheodwulfTheodwulf Brockton, MAMember Posts: 292 Uncommon

    I like MMORPGs as a concept and I liked parts of different games over the years. I like the feel of a huge game world, ideally that world would be capable of change, so there would be some motivation to see the same point more than once. Engaging mini games are also nice to have. Leveling tends to be a chore, grinding mobs or power questing, both get real dull real fast. Adding stories doesn't help as the stories  are pretty bland and predictable. The story can not be about YOU in an MMORPG, it must be about larger events that you may have been involved in some way.  For me they kill immersion as they are cookie cutter tales that have dozens of plot holes in them.

     

     Too many MMOs play out like single player games, empowerment fantasies. Here is your standard issue giant foam finger to sing your praises. There is going to be competitiveness in any MMO even if it's all PVE. That's good, that makes the game interesting.

     

      It all seems so simple to me. Huge game world that is capable of changing.  Multiple avenues of advancement and of competition.  A meta plot that moves whether or not the player involves themselves in it or not. A simple balanced class/skill structure that plays into the heroic archetypes of literature and cinema. Lots of mini games , like racing, gambling and crafting. A game that is easy to learn and difficult to master. A game that rewards long term commitment but doesn't exclude new players.

       A feeling of adventure, exploration and of fun seems too much to ask these days.

     

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAMember Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by DEAD.line  Those aren't quests, they're main storylines. MMORPGs already tried that, namely TOR, and not only did it prove way to expensive  for mmos to put out new updates with that type of content, but people hated how SP oriented it was.

    Sure, "people" hated how SP oriented it was.  Other "people" loved how SP oriented it was.  Both groups exist, and the "love" group is large enough that the game is still played by a very large number of people and is raking in buckets of money.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Chicago, ILMember Posts: 906
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Flyte27
     

    Again we move to the cusp of the matter.  What you are saying here is that single player/co op games give you the experience you desire.  You want to turn MMOs into single player/coop games.  It makes very little sense IMO.  That is not what massively multi player is all about.  It's about having a world where you all co exist together in the same place and have to learn to get along with one another.

    Yes, I am.

    And i am saying if devs want to cater to me, make MMOs more like a SP game. If not, i will seek my entertainment elsewhere.

    Whether it makes sense or not, depending on what audience MMO devs want. And since many MMOs are already solo-friendly and lobby like, why not go all the way and incorporate good SP story elements.

    Remember that it is really not me that ask devs to make MMOs like solo-games. I couldn't care less .. cause i have SP games to play. It is devs who want to cater to the solo crowd. And if so, i am giving them advice of how to do it better.

     

    Come play gta brother. Or are you still into the loot?

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Chicago, ILMember Posts: 906
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    mmo's are the only type of games i enjoy.. i dont get mad because new mmo's copy older mmo's or any of that i truly enjoy it. i like the versatility. i can play solo, i can play with others, i can pvp etc. they just got alot more to offer than single player games. i just think people expect too much from it.. i mean just because it's an mmo and you're surrounded by people it does'nt mean you have to interact with them. it means that the option is there if you so wish and that's great. to me it's like an all you can eat buffé.

    It's actually a skinner box funneling everyone into specific gameplay rather than an all you can eat buffe

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember Posts: 26,682 Rare
    Originally posted by DEAD.line
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    The main problem for me is questing is worse then grinding mobs used to be.  There are many quests are all of them are very similar.  Past a certain point it's no longer fun to continue completing these quests.  I know around Wrath of the Lich King and Burning Crusade in WoW i got so sick of questing I couldn't do it anymore.  That is why I'd like to see an MMO that has no instances and there is a very limited amount of quests.  You just go in and do activities like crafting, killing mobs, going into dungeons, fishing, hanging out, or whatever it is you want to do.

     

    No .. the issue with questing is that they are not like SP games enough. Dishonored, Bioshock and games like that have great scripting and stories.

    MMORPGs should try to do that in instances .. they need MORE instances not less.

     

    Those aren't quests, they're main storylines. MMORPGs already tried that, namely TOR, and not only did it prove way to expensive  for mmos to put out new updates with that type of content, but people hated how SP oriented it was.

    GW2's open world events were praised while it's instanced storyline was slammed, just as an example.  

    TOR is a huge financial success making more than $200M last year. I doubt "people hated how SP oriented" if it is making that kind of money. Surely some people hate it here .. but people here hate everything.

    Main storylines .. quests .. they are just semantics. Just make quests like main storylines.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember Posts: 26,682 Rare
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Flyte27
     

    Again we move to the cusp of the matter.  What you are saying here is that single player/co op games give you the experience you desire.  You want to turn MMOs into single player/coop games.  It makes very little sense IMO.  That is not what massively multi player is all about.  It's about having a world where you all co exist together in the same place and have to learn to get along with one another.

    Yes, I am.

    And i am saying if devs want to cater to me, make MMOs more like a SP game. If not, i will seek my entertainment elsewhere.

    Whether it makes sense or not, depending on what audience MMO devs want. And since many MMOs are already solo-friendly and lobby like, why not go all the way and incorporate good SP story elements.

    Remember that it is really not me that ask devs to make MMOs like solo-games. I couldn't care less .. cause i have SP games to play. It is devs who want to cater to the solo crowd. And if so, i am giving them advice of how to do it better.

     

    Come play gta brother. Or are you still into the loot?

    I don't like GTA ...

    i would much rather play D3 .. and I do.

     

  • DEAD.lineDEAD.line LisbonMember Posts: 424
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by DEAD.line
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    The main problem for me is questing is worse then grinding mobs used to be.  There are many quests are all of them are very similar.  Past a certain point it's no longer fun to continue completing these quests.  I know around Wrath of the Lich King and Burning Crusade in WoW i got so sick of questing I couldn't do it anymore.  That is why I'd like to see an MMO that has no instances and there is a very limited amount of quests.  You just go in and do activities like crafting, killing mobs, going into dungeons, fishing, hanging out, or whatever it is you want to do.

     

    No .. the issue with questing is that they are not like SP games enough. Dishonored, Bioshock and games like that have great scripting and stories.

    MMORPGs should try to do that in instances .. they need MORE instances not less.

     

    Those aren't quests, they're main storylines. MMORPGs already tried that, namely TOR, and not only did it prove way to expensive  for mmos to put out new updates with that type of content, but people hated how SP oriented it was.

    GW2's open world events were praised while it's instanced storyline was slammed, just as an example.  

    TOR is a huge financial success making more than $200M last year. I doubt "people hated how SP oriented" if it is making that kind of money. Surely some people hate it here .. but people here hate everything.

    Main storylines .. quests .. they are just semantics. Just make quests like main storylines.

     

    AFTER it was a huge financial failure that lead to tons of layoffs at Bioware, not to meantion the loss of more than 50% of the playerbase in less than 6 months. But yes, it's making more money now, never denied it.

    What i'm trying to tell you is that those types of stories take alot of time. Bioware themselves said it so. It takes too much money and time to release new cutscenes ans main quests at a proper update pace.

    And like i said, you need to realize single players work because you're the center of the game's universe. Instancing all that content is really pointless. Why waste more money, time,lower graphics do to mmo requieremnts to instance an entire single player experience, when you can make an actuall SP and regain the developement money more easily? With that said, instancing, phasing, sharding, all have a place in mmos, just need to used properly.

    Look at ESO. Everyone hates how different it feels compared to the TES because of the cutbacks it had to make to fit into the themepark mold.

     

  • jdnewelljdnewell Spring Hill, TNMember Posts: 2,136 Uncommon

    I used to like MMOs way back when.

    I still miss the sense of community and accomplishment that a server had in Vanilla DAoC. Granted it had its problems and was by no means perfect. But the community was great.

    Seems to me now that MMOs are more for a quick fix, co op, run dungeon with 5 random joes, no one speaks, only look at gear score, type of games now.

    And that pretty much isnt for me.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember Posts: 26,682 Rare
    Originally posted by DEAD.line

    And like i said, you need to realize single players work because you're the center of the game's universe. Instancing all that content is really pointless. Why waste more money, time,lower graphics do to mmo requieremnts to instance an entire single player experience, when you can make an actuall SP and regain the developement money more easily? With that said, instancing, phasing, sharding, all have a place in mmos, just need to used properly.    

    I don't mind if TOR, or other MMO with good solo content is made into a SP game.

    The point is that if MMOs want to cater to people who like SP games, make MMOs more like SP games. If they just want to do UO, i am out of there.

    Now, since all MMOs are now touting "solo-ability", i don't think devs are going back to the old persistent world, no instance idea. So this is just about how they can be more like SP game.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember Posts: 26,682 Rare
    Originally posted by jdnewell

    Seems to me now that MMOs are more for a quick fix, co op, run dungeon with 5 random joes, no one speaks, only look at gear score, type of games now.  

    Yeh .. basically Diablo with a different combat, and loot system.

    And that is for me .. if not for the instance dungeon runs, and solo-ability, i would not have come back to the genre.

     

  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide SwedenMember Posts: 711 Uncommon
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    mmo's are the only type of games i enjoy.. i dont get mad because new mmo's copy older mmo's or any of that i truly enjoy it. i like the versatility. i can play solo, i can play with others, i can pvp etc. they just got alot more to offer than single player games. i just think people expect too much from it.. i mean just because it's an mmo and you're surrounded by people it does'nt mean you have to interact with them. it means that the option is there if you so wish and that's great. to me it's like an all you can eat buffé.

    It's actually a skinner box funneling everyone into specific gameplay rather than an all you can eat buffe

    pardon my ignorance but what's a skinner box?

    kek

  • InporylemQQInporylemQQ asdasadsMember Posts: 165
    Do people actually add random caps in titles. 

    ArcheAge, Black Desert and Bless videos InporylemQQ Youtube

  • FusionFusion VaasaMember Posts: 1,367 Uncommon
    Originally posted by deniter
    Current philosophy in MMO design seems to be 'MMO = co-op single player game with MOBA on the top'. So no, i don't like MMOs, but i used to love them when the definition for MMO was something else.

    This.

    Things were good back then, before that 'one' game came, brought a ton of bile and changed the genre forever (atleast for the foreseeable future thereafter).

    Nowadays it's mainly the community that drives me away or their influence to the games.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAMember Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by DEAD.line Look at ESO. Everyone hates how different it feels compared to the TES because of the cutbacks it had to make to fit into the themepark mold. 

    Incorrect.  Impressions overall have become more positive since the NDA dropped, there is absolutely no reason to believe "everyone" hates the feel of the game.

    As for your comments about TOR, it's normal to let staff go after launch.  BW intended to not do so, but that intention was based on unrealistic expectations that their product was going to be as successful as WoW.  Instead, it was only more successful than any western MMO other than WoW, which wasn't quite enough success to match their lofty ambitions.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember Posts: 26,682 Rare
    Originally posted by Fusion

    Things were good back then, before that 'one' game came, brought a ton of bile and changed the genre forever (atleast for the foreseeable future thereafter).  

    And i thought people here are for innovation and change?

    Personally i think MMOs are changed into better games ... so all good for me.

     

  • ArakaziArakazi OxfordMember Posts: 911 Uncommon

    I'm kinda split on this.

    On one hand I enjoy the scale of MMO's and the social aspect and the diversity that comes with it.

    On the other hand, MMO's are just bad games. The fighting mechanics are poor, quests are dull and PvP turns out to be unbalanced due to the class and leveling system that is employed. If it wasn't for the large social aspect of MMOs I simply wouldn't play these games. There are tons of games that do combat better, questing and storytelling better and PvP better.

    Yet MMOs are so full of potential and I keep playing them because of the possibility that a game developer will create a virtual world that I want to live in and be a part of. Just maybe the game to end all games is just around the corner, probably not, but just maybe....

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