Originally posted by Raxxo82 Theres so many ways to make a players home actually be useful even for the people that are not so much into decorating and so on. I took me a coupple of years or so before I started to actually put stuff into place in my EQ2 home, instead of just throwing stuff in there to lower "status costs/rent". But after awhile I got into it and actually started to enjoy creating different cool stuff to look at. Then just before I quit, I had a great travel hub, crafting area, storage etc. that I called home. Thing is there most be SO MANY ways you can make features for housing that are fun and useful for the players. In Eq2 they had -ports, crafting tables, storage, daily buffs and you could go to a playrrs hoise and get a discount on items you purchased from them. Im sure Ive.forgot alot of feats, but that was some of them. Im sure devs can find some awesome feats for housing.
Did it ever offer shelter? Was it multiplayer? Was it crafted?
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
They already banned roleplaying from mmorpg's and now housing is not done anymore in mmo's.
An odd thing to write after a year or two of most major MMOs adding housing systems.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Generally speaking, few things are as unattractive to brave, danger-seeking types as domestic life, and that's why heroic stories start with the protagonist not going toward home, but away from it. With that in mind, and since most of us play MMOs in order to feel heroic, why is it important to us to own an online home?
So the adventurer can make a better home.
If you tried to renovate an existing home in RL (or build a new home), you understand the sheer pain of it. Not only spending eons of time looking at items to replace/add in your home, the terrible expense (and cost overruns) that comes with the task.
Online homes you only tear up a virtual home, not your RL home. And it's not LOUD with 3-4 workmen with all those power tools, 8hrs a day trampling all over. It's not DUSTY because the minute drywall is touched CLOUDS of dust go everywhere. It's not the hassle of dealing with foremen who didn't get word from the contract lead, that the flooring was suppose to be beige and not blue (and you have yet another cost and time overrun -- as what you always want is not available and needs to be reordered). Finally, it doesn't cost $$$$$$ in RL dollars to complete!
Yeah, have done all this from totally building a new home to renovating it -- I take pixels over the real McCoy ANY DAY!
But like anything else that consumes time and rewards escapism, there's someone that loves it. The best games provide as much variety of experience as they can manage.
They already banned roleplaying from mmorpg's and now housing is not done anymore in mmo's.
Guess mmorpg's ARE dead and becoming just quest lobby games if it is up to some people these days.
Online roleplaying games used to be about doing whatever you wanted in a virtual "life"......not just fighting skills and lvl's.
Housing has always been part of real mmorpg's but it was up you IF you wanted one.
why dont we make pong online and call it the next generation of mmorpg's????
I think housing is finally making a comeback. As it should. I really can't see why some players are hostile to it. I barely comprehend being indifferent, but okay, whatever, I guess it's like how I feel about raiding. But the openly hostile, 'don't spend dev time on housing, spend it on xyz!' is just beyond me. The SWTOR forum has several threads full of hostility toward their (years too late) plan for housing. Puzzling.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Auctions Houses and Banks. Get rid of these features and there is your main reason for having a house.
If you don't have a bank or a guild bank, then you need a house to put your stuff in. Want to be a blacksmith?, stand in town and craft at the public forge and have to carry all the items needed in your backpack, or put a forge in your house where you can craft and have your chests of resources right there.
Want to sell your wares to other players, set up a shop and hire an NPC to sell those wares.
Want a place where all guild members can store their items and share as needed, get a guild hall and put in lots of chests.
Developers found that by putting in auction houses and banks, they could cut corners on making a virtual world.
Think about it. At this point in MMO design, you think a game without a bank/guild bank or auction house is an unfinished game? I say it's the other way around and you've been brainwashed by Developers who wanted to cut corners. They took away your homes, and guild halls, and shops.
This is a good topic for discussion. It'll be interesting to see what peeps create with voxels in EQL - probably part of it is being able to create stuff.
For me it's always been something that I could take or leave. It's a nice feature in a game you already enjoy, but for me it won't keep me around in a game I dislike. On the same note a game I enjoy the game play of I'll stick around regardless of housing options or lack thereof.
Iv'e always considered it a "fluff" feature, not a must have. It won't save a game with bad game play and usually isn't required for success across most demographics. Just another potential diversion of resources that may, or may not improve anything.
I don't really like typical housing where it's like just stuffing things in there and there's nothing to do but sit there and look at the stuff, or just have a random place to chat with someone.
I think the WoW type housing where they give you things to do with your house, and upgrade, and actually provide some in game benefit could be interesting though.
Star Citizen, while not really an mmorpg, is on track to do this better than anyone. You will not only have a hanger that people can visit and you can customize, you can also get them into your ship. The capitol ships will have to have quite a few people to even run properly, so these will be ideal social and co-operative environments to game from. SC may not allow for as much customizing the interiors as other "housing", but the weathering system will probably see some interiors and exteriors ooking pretty shabby. Some will want the battle damaged look, others will want a pristine machine to fly.
The major difference is that the ship is part of the adventure, not a relief. Wildstar, I admit, is doing this well, but it is still not part of the adventure. If I am damaged and an Idris is the only friendly in the system I can land and get some repairs done. Maybe even manning a turret or something in the interim while the ship repairs. This is how developers should look at doing housing. I think guild keeps that have pve and pvp focus would be great. Castles not houses, and only guilds can afford them.
You don't really need 5 main dungeons or 25 man raids either. They are just features that have become commonplace. Just like every other feature on the box, it is something to engage the player, and some people will be interested in it while others won't, and most people will dabble.
Why do I like housing? It is a way of expressing myself. Building something semi permanent. In most MMORPGs these days nothing your character does really has a lasting impact on the world. Housing is something you do that stays in the world, or at least in most cases your instanced corner of the world.
I thought LotRO housing was pretty decent, my biggest problem with it was upkeep was hard to keep up unless you play constantly and that really just sucked the fun out of their housing for me. Rift does a great job with the building, but interactivity is low and there are no real reasons to go to your dimension except to look around, or to go some place safe while you take a pee. Wildstar looks like it will nail interactivity and with providing reasons to actually go to your house, but it falls short when it comes to the beauty of what you can do with Rift dimensions. Still Wildstar really looks like it will be the game to beat for housing nuts. Rift will probably stay king for building beautiful environments and showing them off to be ranked.
I never understood this in mmo's. Yes i've had houses in games but i never really found them useful. Even when i got housing drops from mobs. I would put them in my house but it was mostly to clear inventory space. Those were really the onlt times i would go to a house.
I don't really like typical housing where it's like just stuffing things in there and there's nothing to do but sit there and look at the stuff, or just have a random place to chat with someone.
I think the WoW type housing where they give you things to do with your house, and upgrade, and actually provide some in game benefit could be interesting though.
EQ2 has the best use for housing by linking it with the broker (AH), which allowed people -- if they visited players homes -- to not pay taxes on what they bought (lazy buying cost a player a 20% tax). It's a perfect solution to many of the problems with housing, as it gave a purpose to also decorate your home for visitors (not just yourself), and a whole cottage industry evolved to just supply/furnish/decorate players homes. The salesman and specialty crates for storing goods also is terrific, because unlike other games, it was set and forget (non of the pesky micromanagement that EvE and WoW selling has). 6 crates x 66 slots each (also allowed stacking of 200 bulk items per stack)...oh, BLISS!
EQ2 wins hands down with their housing, as it became a culture in itself and showed MMOland how it could be more than a fancy trophy hall.
I thought LotRO housing was pretty decent, my biggest problem with it was upkeep was hard to keep up unless you play constantly and that really just sucked the fun out of their housing for me. Rift does a great job with the building, but interactivity is low and there are no real reasons to go to your dimension except to look around, or to go some place safe while you take a pee. Wildstar looks like it will nail interactivity and with providing reasons to actually go to your house, but it falls short when it comes to the beauty of what you can do with Rift dimensions. Still Wildstar really looks like it will be the game to beat for housing nuts. Rift will probably stay king for building beautiful environments and showing them off to be ranked.
Agree on all 3.
I wrote earlier that I like LotRO's neighborhoods, my problem is more like the limited building / hooks. Can't wait the revamp on that (btw, give it an another try, money is so plentyful nowadays, that upkeep costs won't be a problem even with a very casual playstyle - but of course if you have multiple houses, those still can drain your wallet dry...)
Rift's Dimensions is a great system for the building part, but yep, pretty much that's it. I'm still going back occasionally, and this dream weaving sounds cool.
Wildstar... the very first video of it was the Protostar advert, to go and build your home on Nexus... I'm hooked from that moment. I don't like wow so I didn't even care about the rest (ex-wow dudes, raids, faction pvp, all those crap). Barely know about the classes, I saw the combat has telegraphs maybe, but honestly, who cares? Housing, settler and explorer paths, witty humour, decently written story and characters, that's more than enough for me.
Originally posted by Hariken I never understood this in mmo's. Yes i've had houses in games but i never really found them useful. Even when i got housing drops from mobs. I would put them in my house but it was mostly to clear inventory space. Those were really the onlt times i would go to a house.
You should talk to jedi from swg.
If I saw a guy named Kottonmouth. my house was salvation.
The stories we tell always have some ones house playing some part. UO was the same in the stories department. Stuff you will never forget. That's what gaming is about. That's why no one talks about housing in any other game except for a news release or in response.
For customers in general UO and SWG housing will offer the best experience. You have to make yourself believe otherwise.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
I don't see it as a useless addition to a game, I can see it's appeal for RPers or people that just enjoy flexing their creative muscles and designing incredible looking homes.
As for me, I prefer to keep my MMORPGs heroic and my interior decorating skills in The Sims, but I do admit I've wondered through player cities in SWG, UO, and others and saw some incredible things done with the tools they had to work with.
Shout out to the long sunset The Sims Online, the only MMO that player housing was the core of the game rather then an addition.
Comments
Did it ever offer shelter? Was it multiplayer? Was it crafted?
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
An odd thing to write after a year or two of most major MMOs adding housing systems.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So the adventurer can make a better home.
If you tried to renovate an existing home in RL (or build a new home), you understand the sheer pain of it. Not only spending eons of time looking at items to replace/add in your home, the terrible expense (and cost overruns) that comes with the task.
Online homes you only tear up a virtual home, not your RL home. And it's not LOUD with 3-4 workmen with all those power tools, 8hrs a day trampling all over. It's not DUSTY because the minute drywall is touched CLOUDS of dust go everywhere. It's not the hassle of dealing with foremen who didn't get word from the contract lead, that the flooring was suppose to be beige and not blue (and you have yet another cost and time overrun -- as what you always want is not available and needs to be reordered). Finally, it doesn't cost $$$$$$ in RL dollars to complete!
Yeah, have done all this from totally building a new home to renovating it -- I take pixels over the real McCoy ANY DAY!
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
We don't.
But like anything else that consumes time and rewards escapism, there's someone that loves it. The best games provide as much variety of experience as they can manage.
Is the housing better than old games or is it worse in the eyes of the customer? Honestly? I don't know I haven't played many new mmorpgs,
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
It's not really about housing. It's about having freedom and the ability to make any kind of mark within the game.
I think housing is finally making a comeback. As it should. I really can't see why some players are hostile to it. I barely comprehend being indifferent, but okay, whatever, I guess it's like how I feel about raiding. But the openly hostile, 'don't spend dev time on housing, spend it on xyz!' is just beyond me. The SWTOR forum has several threads full of hostility toward their (years too late) plan for housing. Puzzling.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Auctions Houses and Banks. Get rid of these features and there is your main reason for having a house.
If you don't have a bank or a guild bank, then you need a house to put your stuff in. Want to be a blacksmith?, stand in town and craft at the public forge and have to carry all the items needed in your backpack, or put a forge in your house where you can craft and have your chests of resources right there.
Want to sell your wares to other players, set up a shop and hire an NPC to sell those wares.
Want a place where all guild members can store their items and share as needed, get a guild hall and put in lots of chests.
Developers found that by putting in auction houses and banks, they could cut corners on making a virtual world.
Think about it. At this point in MMO design, you think a game without a bank/guild bank or auction house is an unfinished game? I say it's the other way around and you've been brainwashed by Developers who wanted to cut corners. They took away your homes, and guild halls, and shops.
and many of you liked it...
I remember when your house was your bank/storage!
I'm not sure where this change began by eliminating housing in favor of a silly NPC that holds all my stuff, but it needs to go back the other way.
This is a good topic for discussion. It'll be interesting to see what peeps create with voxels in EQL - probably part of it is being able to create stuff.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
For me it's always been something that I could take or leave. It's a nice feature in a game you already enjoy, but for me it won't keep me around in a game I dislike. On the same note a game I enjoy the game play of I'll stick around regardless of housing options or lack thereof.
Iv'e always considered it a "fluff" feature, not a must have. It won't save a game with bad game play and usually isn't required for success across most demographics. Just another potential diversion of resources that may, or may not improve anything.
I don't really like typical housing where it's like just stuffing things in there and there's nothing to do but sit there and look at the stuff, or just have a random place to chat with someone.
I think the WoW type housing where they give you things to do with your house, and upgrade, and actually provide some in game benefit could be interesting though.
Star Citizen, while not really an mmorpg, is on track to do this better than anyone. You will not only have a hanger that people can visit and you can customize, you can also get them into your ship. The capitol ships will have to have quite a few people to even run properly, so these will be ideal social and co-operative environments to game from. SC may not allow for as much customizing the interiors as other "housing", but the weathering system will probably see some interiors and exteriors ooking pretty shabby. Some will want the battle damaged look, others will want a pristine machine to fly.
The major difference is that the ship is part of the adventure, not a relief. Wildstar, I admit, is doing this well, but it is still not part of the adventure. If I am damaged and an Idris is the only friendly in the system I can land and get some repairs done. Maybe even manning a turret or something in the interim while the ship repairs. This is how developers should look at doing housing. I think guild keeps that have pve and pvp focus would be great. Castles not houses, and only guilds can afford them.
You don't really need 5 main dungeons or 25 man raids either. They are just features that have become commonplace. Just like every other feature on the box, it is something to engage the player, and some people will be interested in it while others won't, and most people will dabble.
Why do I like housing? It is a way of expressing myself. Building something semi permanent. In most MMORPGs these days nothing your character does really has a lasting impact on the world. Housing is something you do that stays in the world, or at least in most cases your instanced corner of the world.
I thought LotRO housing was pretty decent, my biggest problem with it was upkeep was hard to keep up unless you play constantly and that really just sucked the fun out of their housing for me. Rift does a great job with the building, but interactivity is low and there are no real reasons to go to your dimension except to look around, or to go some place safe while you take a pee. Wildstar looks like it will nail interactivity and with providing reasons to actually go to your house, but it falls short when it comes to the beauty of what you can do with Rift dimensions. Still Wildstar really looks like it will be the game to beat for housing nuts. Rift will probably stay king for building beautiful environments and showing them off to be ranked.
EQ2 has the best use for housing by linking it with the broker (AH), which allowed people -- if they visited players homes -- to not pay taxes on what they bought (lazy buying cost a player a 20% tax). It's a perfect solution to many of the problems with housing, as it gave a purpose to also decorate your home for visitors (not just yourself), and a whole cottage industry evolved to just supply/furnish/decorate players homes. The salesman and specialty crates for storing goods also is terrific, because unlike other games, it was set and forget (non of the pesky micromanagement that EvE and WoW selling has). 6 crates x 66 slots each (also allowed stacking of 200 bulk items per stack)...oh, BLISS!
EQ2 wins hands down with their housing, as it became a culture in itself and showed MMOland how it could be more than a fancy trophy hall.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Agree on all 3.
I wrote earlier that I like LotRO's neighborhoods, my problem is more like the limited building / hooks. Can't wait the revamp on that
(btw, give it an another try, money is so plentyful nowadays, that upkeep costs won't be a problem even with a very casual playstyle - but of course if you have multiple houses, those still can drain your wallet dry...)
Rift's Dimensions is a great system for the building part, but yep, pretty much that's it. I'm still going back occasionally, and this dream weaving sounds cool.
Wildstar... the very first video of it was the Protostar advert, to go and build your home on Nexus... I'm hooked from that moment. I don't like wow so I didn't even care about the rest (ex-wow dudes, raids, faction pvp, all those crap). Barely know about the classes, I saw the combat has telegraphs maybe, but honestly, who cares?
Housing, settler and explorer paths, witty humour, decently written story and characters, that's more than enough for me.
You should talk to jedi from swg.
If I saw a guy named Kottonmouth. my house was salvation.
The stories we tell always have some ones house playing some part. UO was the same in the stories department. Stuff you will never forget. That's what gaming is about. That's why no one talks about housing in any other game except for a news release or in response.
For customers in general UO and SWG housing will offer the best experience. You have to make yourself believe otherwise.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Hard to believe you missed a mention of Rift's Dimensions, which sets a new and very high standard for sandbox-style housing in an mmo.
To respond to the title question of why housing in an mmo? Because we get invested in our stuff when we have a place to call home. Pretty simple.
I don't see it as a useless addition to a game, I can see it's appeal for RPers or people that just enjoy flexing their creative muscles and designing incredible looking homes.
As for me, I prefer to keep my MMORPGs heroic and my interior decorating skills in The Sims, but I do admit I've wondered through player cities in SWG, UO, and others and saw some incredible things done with the tools they had to work with.
Shout out to the long sunset The Sims Online, the only MMO that player housing was the core of the game rather then an addition.