But cant we put legendary enchantments on dropped gear?
The crux of the "dropped better than crafted" debate, is wheter the set bonuses which can only be gained on the dropped gear is better than the ones we can get on our crafted gear. Everything beyond that is equal right, seeing as enchants can be applied to all items, and dropped gear can come with the same traits as crafted gear?
NO you cannot put enchamtents on dropped gear that has the embedded enchaments on them. This is what Paul Sage said yesterday....
Yuck.
That's like in WoW you got their terrific piece of gear with permanent gems in it, but the gems can't be resocketed with more useful gems. And jewelcrafters can't even put their elite gems in them, either.
Eww...
That is correct.
Which is why Crafters will make the best gear in game still. Because the Blacksmisth or Tailor gets to CHOOSE THE TRAIT, and the Enchanter gets to CHOOSE the LEGENDARY ENCHANT.
Giving you customization!!!!
But not much for professional perks, either.
My sis is an Alchemist/Tailor in WoW, and WoW's legendary this expansion is the cloak. She can put her professional perk (a proccing +5000 intellect cloak enchant, Lightweave) directly on that cloak.
Not only can she add her professional perk on it, anyone else can add their favorite BiS sub-class enchant on it, ensuring Enchanters can still make the BiS enchants, too.
A few things, the judgments of "best" is mostly coming from a group of min-maxers on the PTS. Minmaxing is great for number crunching and figuring out where there might be potential issues but what it is not known for is build variety. Maybe that looted gear has the best enchantment for an ardent flame, fire destruction staff dragonknight, but you want something else that fits what you are running instead.
That's where crafting comes in.
I'm not sure where the swing argument of "best gear is looted" = "crafting is useless." You still have 50+ levels of sparse itemization that encourages you to craft or find someone else to craft for you, unlike in most games where you get everything from questing. That being said, we all knew looted gear was good, upgraded to be better by a crafter months ago. Why is this an issue now?
Because he is a closed beta tester with reliable information track record so far - aka a solid source.
Is he a god - that is a really weak attempt to discredit anyone
What are you talking about? What reliable information?
You do not trust developers statement, but you trust some GoldenTiger, one of hundreds of closed beta testers.
It is just silly. You have no knowledge how reliable his information ever was except for comparison it with developers information. And now you intentionally ignore developers statement in favor of this nobody. Is he your brother?
I would say you have an agenda!
P.S. By the way, I trust in God! In god only. Don't you?
You should never trust anything a Dev says. They are trying to sell you something after all.
GoldenTiger and others like him are just basing the game (its so awful. etc). They voice their concerns over changes they have seen first hand in the game.
The devs's feet should be held to the fire and we as customers should demand the best game possible.
Its like this you and a buddy go to buy a used car, do you trust the seller to tell you everything bad about that car he is trying to get rid of? When the guy who came with you starts to point out flaws and problems, do you get upset with him? "How dare you tell me the brakes are bad!! The seller said they are brand new. You are a liar!"
But cant we put legendary enchantments on dropped gear?
The crux of the "dropped better than crafted" debate, is wheter the set bonuses which can only be gained on the dropped gear is better than the ones we can get on our crafted gear. Everything beyond that is equal right, seeing as enchants can be applied to all items, and dropped gear can come with the same traits as crafted gear?
NO you cannot put enchamtents on dropped gear that has the embedded enchaments on them. This is what Paul Sage said yesterday....
Yuck.
That's like in WoW you got their terrific piece of gear with permanent gems in it, but the gems can't be resocketed with more useful gems. And jewelcrafters can't even put their elite gems in them, either.
Eww...
That is correct.
Which is why Crafters will make the best gear in game still. Because the Blacksmisth or Tailor gets to CHOOSE THE TRAIT, and the Enchanter gets to CHOOSE the LEGENDARY ENCHANT.
Giving you customization!!!!
But not much for professional perks, either.
My sis is an Alchemist/Tailor in WoW, and WoW's legendary this expansion is the cloak. She can put her professional perk (a proccing +5000 intellect cloak enchant, Lightweave) directly on that cloak.
Not only can she add her professional perk on it, anyone else can add their favorite BiS sub-class enchant on it, ensuring Enchanters can still make the BiS enchants, too.
<--- Kev's a Blacksmith/Enchanter.
True, the Professional Perk would be that you get to Create the Best Gear possible in Game as a Crafter, I think that's the best perk in an MMO in years.
Of course they are going to make the best gear only obtainable by raiding/pvping. How else will they keep people subbed if they could craft best gear? They wont need to spend hours and hours pvping and pveing.
End of thread.... Legendary gear is crafted only. You take a crafted or dropped epic level piece of equipment and a crafter has to use tempers to make it legendary. Legendaries do not drop.
Originally posted by funcon Of course they are going to make the best gear only obtainable by raiding/pvping. How else will they keep people subbed if they could craft best gear? They wont need to spend hours and hours pvping and pveing.
I don't want to set u up for a heartbreak, but crafters will be able to make the best gear in game, and also upgrade raid gear.
The devs's feet should be held to the fire and we as customers should demand the best game possible.
Its like this you and a buddy go to buy a used car, do you trust the seller to tell you everything bad about that car he is trying to get rid of? When the guy who came with you starts to point out flaws and problems, do you get upset with him? "How dare you tell me the brakes are bad!! The seller said they are brand new. You are a liar!"
+1
Don't take anything on face value alone, as publishers/devs change positions as fast as a hooker see's a $100 bill over a $20 one.
Then they wonder why gamers have the attitudes they have? Yeah, toxic relationships don't exist in a vacuum, they exist when the relationships break down.
The devs's feet should be held to the fire and we as customers should demand the best game possible.
Its like this you and a buddy go to buy a used car, do you trust the seller to tell you everything bad about that car he is trying to get rid of? When the guy who came with you starts to point out flaws and problems, do you get upset with him? "How dare you tell me the brakes are bad!! The seller said they are brand new. You are a liar!"
+1
Don't take anything on face value alone, as publishers/devs change positions as fast as a hooker see's a $100 bill over a $20 one.
Then they wonder why gamers have the attitudes they have? Yeah, toxic relationships don't exist in a vacuum, they exist when the relationships break down.
So far, I been following this game for the past year, and everything the devs have said have come true as far as development goes. I think people have been lied to by devs for so long from big names like Blizzard and SOE that they don't see it when a dev like ESO's devs come around and Says what they do, and does as they say.
As far as business aspects, well, where there is money, there is bullchitlin. But business decisions aside, the devs have done everything in development that they said from the beginning.
This thread title will be proven wrong like so many other misunderstandings this game has had from its start. Crafters will be able to make the best gear in game, and even make drops better just like the devs said.
Originally posted by VannorIf you want to roleplay a crafter, I don't see why you'd rather do it in a game instead of in real life.
That's like saying, if you want to build stuff, why play MineCraft...
Who can actually build or craft something in RL? Sure, some people pick up carpentry as a hobby and so on, but smithing for example? Especially stuff that will be used?
For that matter, if you want to gain experience, why play a game and not do some stuff in RL... Getting the point?
Originally posted by Tbau I wouldn't be surprised. DaoC started out with the best gear being crafted and then the developers caved in and changed it, one of them is the head of TESO development.
That's when DAOC went downhill too. ToA ruined DAOC.
Well not everyone likes crafting so I could see why that is the majority on most mmorpgs.
Only game I ever got a crafting type to max was leather working and skinning(?) in WOW because I could skin the enemies while questing didn't have to go farm some nodes.
System should not call for everyone to craft, but rather reward those who do like to craft with a profession that is truly needed by the community. Making the best loot drop is no different than having NPCs heal better than any player can for hire at end game...basically telling healers they are not really needed.
This is an adventure game, who should get priority in the reward system? Most adventures are not entertained nor do they feel rewarded when dropped items are crafting components. Nor do they enjoy being held hostage by crafters, unable to adventure in some cases till they find someone to make their next tier items or repair current ones. Crafting can still be important without making adventurers feel like they are missing out or being ripped off, but if it comes to one or the other, adventure reward systems should always take priority in an adventure game.
Originally posted by Tbau I wouldn't be surprised. DaoC started out with the best gear being crafted and then the developers caved in and changed it, one of them is the head of TESO development.
That's when DAOC went downhill too. ToA ruined DAOC.
ToA was about raiding, not even the same premise. Darkness Falls and Catacombs, both of which were hugely successful for the game, introduced alternate paths to loot other than crafting. I really believe Catacombs is what has kept DAoC alive today.
Originally posted by VannorIf you want to roleplay a crafter, I don't see why you'd rather do it in a game instead of in real life.
That's like saying, if you want to build stuff, why play MineCraft...
Who can actually build or craft something in RL? Sure, some people pick up carpentry as a hobby and so on, but smithing for example? Especially stuff that will be used?
For that matter, if you want to gain experience, why play a game and not do some stuff in RL... Getting the point?
Ha, that's why I never liked melee. IRL you can pick up a weapon and fight. That's probably why I can't get into the gun games either, those are also IRL, I want something unseen, something I can't go to a paintball arena to do.
Last time I checked there is no one capable of shooting fireballs out of their wrists or teleporting around, these games have me engaged with magic that doesn't exist in the real world.
This reminds me of when I tried my hand at carpentry and building things. My god the hand saw was jumping all over the place the first time. I tried to carve things into the wood and instead of a bird, it looked like a deformed toy for females. I then went on to building small funishings, after bending 20 nails and having them break out of the wood the wrong way, I decided, games is a the best and most safe place to craft things.
Well not everyone likes crafting so I could see why that is the majority on most mmorpgs.
Only game I ever got a crafting type to max was leather working and skinning(?) in WOW because I could skin the enemies while questing didn't have to go farm some nodes.
System should not call for everyone to craft, but rather reward those who do like to craft with a profession that is truly needed by the community. Making the best loot drop is no different than having NPCs heal better than any player can for hire at end game...basically telling healers they are not really needed.
This is an adventure game, who should get priority in the reward system? Most adventures are not entertained nor do they feel rewarded when dropped items are crafting components. Nor do they enjoy being held hostage by crafters, unable to adventure in some cases till they find someone to make their next tier items or repair current ones. Crafting can still be important without making adventurers feel like they are missing out or being ripped off, but if it comes to one or the other, adventure reward systems should always take priority in an adventure game.
I disagree and this is exactly the mentality of the Theme Park Locust. This creates a community of people who consume content, loot gear, and move on to the next game when they have nothing left to consume.
Originally posted by deveilblad End of thread.... Legendary gear is crafted only. You take a crafted or dropped epic level piece of equipment and a crafter has to use tempers to make it legendary. Legendaries do not drop.
Do you not understand the major difference here?
The "unique" enchantments ONLY come on dropped items, crafters not NOT make these items.
The unique dropped items are far better then what a crafted item can have on them currently after these changes.
In order to upgrade an item to legendary you do not even need to be a master crafter at all, a few skill points in will allow you to do this.
So the crafters who invest all their time, money, and work into mastering crafting do not get to craft comparable items right now (like they did before these recent changes), instead these dropped items are bettera nd crafters only purpose end game is to improve dropped items (which you do not need to max crafting to do).
This means the people that max crafting and enjoy crafting items will have no place when it comes to end game if they leave it like it currently is.
Well not everyone likes crafting so I could see why that is the majority on most mmorpgs.
Only game I ever got a crafting type to max was leather working and skinning(?) in WOW because I could skin the enemies while questing didn't have to go farm some nodes.
System should not call for everyone to craft, but rather reward those who do like to craft with a profession that is truly needed by the community. Making the best loot drop is no different than having NPCs heal better than any player can for hire at end game...basically telling healers they are not really needed.
This is an adventure game, who should get priority in the reward system? Most adventures are not entertained nor do they feel rewarded when dropped items are crafting components. Nor do they enjoy being held hostage by crafters, unable to adventure in some cases till they find someone to make their next tier items or repair current ones. Crafting can still be important without making adventurers feel like they are missing out or being ripped off, but if it comes to one or the other, adventure reward systems should always take priority in an adventure game.
I disagree and this is exactly the mentality of the Theme Park Locust. This creates a community of people who consume content, loot gear, and move on to the next game when they have nothing left to consume.
Agreed, everyone I know who was jeleous of others obtaining what they had, never once stoped to smell the roses of questiong, or leveling, never once picked up a craft tool in game, never once did they enjoy themselves, instead every single time and time again on every mmo, these people rush tot he top of end game, to raid and get the best gear, then are the FIRST ones to quit the game and somehow they should be the crowd of people who should get rewarded for THAT?
Its about time a game like ESO came along and seen the TRUE value of their Player Base, the people who take their time in games to enjoy it, to enjoy the crafting to max level and don't quit the game the second they feel they have somehow conqured the game, because most crafters are the ones who enjoy the game, and should be REWARDED by the game company to KEEP THESE PEOPLE.
Originally posted by deveilblad End of thread.... Legendary gear is crafted only. You take a crafted or dropped epic level piece of equipment and a crafter has to use tempers to make it legendary. Legendaries do not drop.
Do you not understand the major difference here?
The "unique" enchantments ONLY come on dropped items, crafters not NOT make these items.
The unique dropped items are far better then what a crafted item can have on them currently after these changes.
In order to upgrade an item to legendary you do not even need to be a master crafter at all, a few skill points in will allow you to do this.
So the crafters who invest all their time, money, and work into mastering crafting do not get to craft comparable items right now (like they did before these recent changes), instead these dropped items are bettera nd crafters only purpose end game is to improve dropped items (which you do not need to max crafting to do).
This means the people that max crafting and enjoy crafting items will have no place when it comes to end game if they leave it like it currently is.
YES, ENCHANTERS WILL BE ABLE TO MAKE LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENTS!!!!
Legendary Enchantments can make the best end game crafted gear that blacksmiths and tailors make to BE THE BEST GEAR IN GAME, equal to gear that has been droped and upgraded to legendary by blacksmiths or tailors.
They can also upgrade the raid gear, that has LegendaryEquivelliant Enchantments embedded into them.
I the to break your heart, but yes, crafters will be able to make the best gear in game and make them better. JUST LIKE THE DEVS TOLD US!
Raid gear will not be able to have LEGENDARY ENCHANTS put onto them, Only Crafted gear can be LEGENDARY ENCHANTED because RAID gear alredy has "legendary quality" enchantments embedded into them.
Originally posted by deveilblad End of thread.... Legendary gear is crafted only. You take a crafted or dropped epic level piece of equipment and a crafter has to use tempers to make it legendary. Legendaries do not drop.
Do you not understand the major difference here?
The "unique" enchantments ONLY come on dropped items, crafters not NOT make these items.
The unique dropped items are far better then what a crafted item can have on them currently after these changes.
In order to upgrade an item to legendary you do not even need to be a master crafter at all, a few skill points in will allow you to do this.
So the crafters who invest all their time, money, and work into mastering crafting do not get to craft comparable items right now (like they did before these recent changes), instead these dropped items are bettera nd crafters only purpose end game is to improve dropped items (which you do not need to max crafting to do).
This means the people that max crafting and enjoy crafting items will have no place when it comes to end game if they leave it like it currently is.
Are you sure YOU understand ? Special traits can be researched by crafters, so over time they can craft the exact same traits as a dropped item. Also enchants are made by enchanters, there are no special dropped item enchants, as far as I know anyway... Anything on a dropped piece of gear can be made by a crafter of that particular type (light,medium,heavy) for traits and enchanters can enchant it with whatever. ON TOP OF THAT, crafters can make that piece of gear legendary. So the really really best piece of gear with exactly the right trait/enchant/legendary quality will be crafted at special crafting stations in specific public dungeons, not dropped.
THEY REDUCED THE XP For players that want to explore the world??? WHAT the hell are they thinking?linear questing is BORING. they dug their own grave with this new change.
Thanks for this new change, im telling all my buddies that pre ordered this game.
THEY REDUCED THE XP For players that want to explore the world??? WHAT the hell are they thinking?linear questing is BORING. they dug their own grave with this new change.
Thanks for this new change, im telling all my buddies that pre ordered this game.
If you dint get this joke, ESO has actually increased the amount of XP from mobs.
Its easy to believe something when someone says something contrary to what has been said by devs, simply by believing word of mouth rather then understanding it fully by devs and your own experience.
Comments
But not much for professional perks, either.
My sis is an Alchemist/Tailor in WoW, and WoW's legendary this expansion is the cloak. She can put her professional perk (a proccing +5000 intellect cloak enchant, Lightweave) directly on that cloak.
Not only can she add her professional perk on it, anyone else can add their favorite BiS sub-class enchant on it, ensuring Enchanters can still make the BiS enchants, too.
<--- Kev's a Blacksmith/Enchanter.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
A few things, the judgments of "best" is mostly coming from a group of min-maxers on the PTS. Minmaxing is great for number crunching and figuring out where there might be potential issues but what it is not known for is build variety. Maybe that looted gear has the best enchantment for an ardent flame, fire destruction staff dragonknight, but you want something else that fits what you are running instead.
That's where crafting comes in.
I'm not sure where the swing argument of "best gear is looted" = "crafting is useless." You still have 50+ levels of sparse itemization that encourages you to craft or find someone else to craft for you, unlike in most games where you get everything from questing. That being said, we all knew looted gear was good, upgraded to be better by a crafter months ago. Why is this an issue now?
You should never trust anything a Dev says. They are trying to sell you something after all.
GoldenTiger and others like him are just basing the game (its so awful. etc). They voice their concerns over changes they have seen first hand in the game.
The devs's feet should be held to the fire and we as customers should demand the best game possible.
Its like this you and a buddy go to buy a used car, do you trust the seller to tell you everything bad about that car he is trying to get rid of? When the guy who came with you starts to point out flaws and problems, do you get upset with him? "How dare you tell me the brakes are bad!! The seller said they are brand new. You are a liar!"
True, the Professional Perk would be that you get to Create the Best Gear possible in Game as a Crafter, I think that's the best perk in an MMO in years.
I don't want to set u up for a heartbreak, but crafters will be able to make the best gear in game, and also upgrade raid gear.
+1
Don't take anything on face value alone, as publishers/devs change positions as fast as a hooker see's a $100 bill over a $20 one.
Then they wonder why gamers have the attitudes they have? Yeah, toxic relationships don't exist in a vacuum, they exist when the relationships break down.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
So far, I been following this game for the past year, and everything the devs have said have come true as far as development goes. I think people have been lied to by devs for so long from big names like Blizzard and SOE that they don't see it when a dev like ESO's devs come around and Says what they do, and does as they say.
As far as business aspects, well, where there is money, there is bullchitlin. But business decisions aside, the devs have done everything in development that they said from the beginning.
This thread title will be proven wrong like so many other misunderstandings this game has had from its start. Crafters will be able to make the best gear in game, and even make drops better just like the devs said.
That's like saying, if you want to build stuff, why play MineCraft...
Who can actually build or craft something in RL? Sure, some people pick up carpentry as a hobby and so on, but smithing for example? Especially stuff that will be used?
For that matter, if you want to gain experience, why play a game and not do some stuff in RL... Getting the point?
That's when DAOC went downhill too. ToA ruined DAOC.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
This is an adventure game, who should get priority in the reward system? Most adventures are not entertained nor do they feel rewarded when dropped items are crafting components. Nor do they enjoy being held hostage by crafters, unable to adventure in some cases till they find someone to make their next tier items or repair current ones. Crafting can still be important without making adventurers feel like they are missing out or being ripped off, but if it comes to one or the other, adventure reward systems should always take priority in an adventure game.
ToA was about raiding, not even the same premise. Darkness Falls and Catacombs, both of which were hugely successful for the game, introduced alternate paths to loot other than crafting. I really believe Catacombs is what has kept DAoC alive today.
This reminds me of when I tried my hand at carpentry and building things. My god the hand saw was jumping all over the place the first time. I tried to carve things into the wood and instead of a bird, it looked like a deformed toy for females. I then went on to building small funishings, after bending 20 nails and having them break out of the wood the wrong way, I decided, games is a the best and most safe place to craft things.
I disagree and this is exactly the mentality of the Theme Park Locust. This creates a community of people who consume content, loot gear, and move on to the next game when they have nothing left to consume.
The casino must win.
Never bet against the house. This is why crafters are always doomed.
They don't want players, they want addicts.
Do you not understand the major difference here?
The "unique" enchantments ONLY come on dropped items, crafters not NOT make these items.
The unique dropped items are far better then what a crafted item can have on them currently after these changes.
In order to upgrade an item to legendary you do not even need to be a master crafter at all, a few skill points in will allow you to do this.
So the crafters who invest all their time, money, and work into mastering crafting do not get to craft comparable items right now (like they did before these recent changes), instead these dropped items are bettera nd crafters only purpose end game is to improve dropped items (which you do not need to max crafting to do).
This means the people that max crafting and enjoy crafting items will have no place when it comes to end game if they leave it like it currently is.
Agreed, everyone I know who was jeleous of others obtaining what they had, never once stoped to smell the roses of questiong, or leveling, never once picked up a craft tool in game, never once did they enjoy themselves, instead every single time and time again on every mmo, these people rush tot he top of end game, to raid and get the best gear, then are the FIRST ones to quit the game and somehow they should be the crowd of people who should get rewarded for THAT?
Its about time a game like ESO came along and seen the TRUE value of their Player Base, the people who take their time in games to enjoy it, to enjoy the crafting to max level and don't quit the game the second they feel they have somehow conqured the game, because most crafters are the ones who enjoy the game, and should be REWARDED by the game company to KEEP THESE PEOPLE.
Thankyou ESO.
YES, ENCHANTERS WILL BE ABLE TO MAKE LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENTS!!!!
Legendary Enchantments can make the best end game crafted gear that blacksmiths and tailors make to BE THE BEST GEAR IN GAME, equal to gear that has been droped and upgraded to legendary by blacksmiths or tailors.
They can also upgrade the raid gear, that has LegendaryEquivelliant Enchantments embedded into them.
I the to break your heart, but yes, crafters will be able to make the best gear in game and make them better. JUST LIKE THE DEVS TOLD US!
Raid gear will not be able to have LEGENDARY ENCHANTS put onto them, Only Crafted gear can be LEGENDARY ENCHANTED because RAID gear alredy has "legendary quality" enchantments embedded into them.
Are you sure YOU understand ? Special traits can be researched by crafters, so over time they can craft the exact same traits as a dropped item. Also enchants are made by enchanters, there are no special dropped item enchants, as far as I know anyway... Anything on a dropped piece of gear can be made by a crafter of that particular type (light,medium,heavy) for traits and enchanters can enchant it with whatever. ON TOP OF THAT, crafters can make that piece of gear legendary. So the really really best piece of gear with exactly the right trait/enchant/legendary quality will be crafted at special crafting stations in specific public dungeons, not dropped.
THEY REDUCED THE XP For players that want to explore the world??? WHAT the hell are they thinking?linear questing is BORING. they dug their own grave with this new change.
Thanks for this new change, im telling all my buddies that pre ordered this game.
If you dint get this joke, ESO has actually increased the amount of XP from mobs.
Its easy to believe something when someone says something contrary to what has been said by devs, simply by believing word of mouth rather then understanding it fully by devs and your own experience.