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Buying in game currency is here for good?

andre369andre369 .Posts: 946Member Uncommon

Look at my tag, GW1 was my best experience in a online game to date. GW2 has turned into a run around bash stuff for preset rewards making the whole experience dull. The whole game is designed around making people buy gems be it for real money or not. 

I hate it, I can't stand this type of cash shop. Not to mention all the item's that are locked in RNG boxes in the cash shop. Last drop in the bucket for me was with the last patch of the living story. 

One of the end game item sets in GW1 was tormented weapons, and guess what they did with GW2. They just simply put them in a RNG box. >> http://dulfy.net/2014/03/04/gw2-tormented-weapon-skins-gallery/

They have added, 10? or something of these item sets in the RNG boxes. 

If these weapons were actual rewards in the game, rare drops and unique boss rewards, this game would of been so much more rewarding and you would have something to actually play for other than a okay story with almost same type of content most of the time. 

The reason I put this post here, is not really to talk about GW2, but the kind of cheesy cash shop they have. When you have everything in the game avaible for real money, it just rips the whole experience apart. 

I know not everyone can afford to spend extra money in the cash shop. But most people can afford to at least buy enough gems/whatever for that one item you really want. More and more MMO's choose to implement as a feature. Farm for 10+ hours straight or spend 20 or something dollars for that thing you really want. 

This dilemma makes you think about whether or not the time you spend in the actual game is worth the X amount of dollars you could spend in a heartbeat. 

I have not followed Wildstar closely, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I heard you could buy playtime and trade it to other players for ingame currency that do not have/want to spend real money. Meaning they will have to put more time into the game than the player that has the money.

I heard the same for Star Citizen, although they said it would be limited. I guess that's a good thing. 

You also have EVE, but I think that's a core part of the game, since you can actually withdraw you'r money if I'm correct?

The only game I've not heard have something like this is ESO, and I don't feel compelled to try it out since I did not click with the bad combat in Skyrim, IMO. 

What's you'r opinion on this so called feature that more and more MMO's decide to go with?

I hate it, it totally ruins my experience. 

I'll just leave two links here to the two latest item sets you are able to craft and decide yourself if they look bad on purpose or given very little time to the designers since they do not generate money from the cash shop. 

http://dulfy.net/2013/12/10/gw2-ascended-armor-gallery/

http://dulfy.net/2013/09/03/gw2-ascended-weapon-skins-gallery/

 

Comments

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member

    The ability to buy in-game currency or EARN it is, correct me if I'm wrong, called "Fair-to-Play".  Maybe it was a typo?  I haven't been reading about MMO's much the past year, having moved across the country and all.

    First, I like this idea.

    Second, I agree with you that this stuff should be drops or crafting gear... but...

    Third, I don't need "Ascended" to enjoy the game since it's really not that good anyway.

    Fourth, I like counting.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member

    It's probably here for good with a lot of games.

     

    I will say that it is the single biggest thing that has driven me away from GW2 over time. The fact that you effectively can't function or have anything nice without spending real cash to buy gems due to inflation and lack of updates to keep inflation in check has ruined the game. Add in the fact that the centralized TP is controlled by a small hand full of TP barons and you have an economy that is in a colossal state of decline with such a large gap between the rich and the poor it might as well be a 3rd world country for the average player.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • TbauTbau Chicago, ILPosts: 401Member

    Every MMO since EQ1 has had gold sellers, in fact it was an EQ1 player  that started the first company (IGE) to do it. There is no stopping it, other than the company that makes the game selling it themselves, for a lower price.

    Personally, I would rather have the money going to the maker of the game so it can be reinvested back into it than having someone buy from a Chinese company were they pay little and work them to death.

  • dirtyd77dirtyd77 Cumming, GAPosts: 383Member

    I honestly don't mind if you can buy in game currency or not. It does not bother me. So long as everything is attainable in game.

    The downfall for me and something that will make me leave a game in a heart beat is when a full paying sub has content (even fluff or cosmetic) that is gated behind a cash shop. This is the downfall of this industry to me.

    That is a deal breaker. Pick one or the other don't try to suck your player base dry...  If the company wants to sell credits to those that want it....  so be it... does not bother me......  but again lock content ( any type of content/ materials/ anything ) away from subbers in your cash shop and I am out. 

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades

    It's probably here for good with a lot of games.

     

    I will say that it is the single biggest thing that has driven me away from GW2 over time. The fact that you effectively can't function or have anything nice without spending real cash to buy gems due to inflation and lack of updates to keep inflation in check has ruined the game. Add in the fact that the centralized TP is controlled by a small hand full of TP barons and you have an economy that is in a colossal state of decline with such a large gap between the rich and the poor it might as well be a 3rd world country for the average player.

    Is this post uninformed or is it just me?  I ask because in the few months I haven't been playing, SO much has had to change for this post to be accurate.

    So you can't buy Exotics anymore for a handful of gold?  Have mats gone up in price so much that no one can make things?  Serious inquiry here, what could gems possibly have changed to make this huge gap, and more importantly, how does it affect  you when you can't buy Ascended gear on the TP?

    What it sounds like is that you're upset people have more money to buy things that can't really make them any better than you.  The "third world country" analogy might have legs if this was a game like WoW where you could go to the AH and purchase items several dozen ilvl's higher than you with gold.  But it's GW2.  And again, unless things changed, you can't.

    I highlighted the obvious lie in red.

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by Tbau

    Every MMO since EQ1 has had gold sellers, in fact it was an EQ1 player  that started the first company (IGE) to do it. There is no stopping it, other than the company that makes the game selling it themselves, for a lower price.

    Personally, I would rather have the money going to the maker of the game so it can be reinvested back into it than having someone buy from a Chinese company were they pay little and work them to death.

    -It isnt the same...

    Besides that, the gold sellers are cheaper anyhow- At least a few years ago when EQ 2 had the legal gold selling between players. I was astounded to find out that although they condoned selling real items (including gold) you would be banned if caught going 'outside the market'- Which oddly was around 50% of the cost from the 'legal and sanctioned' way.

    I would rather they did away with gold selling period and if caught you would be banned.

    When "real money' came into gaming it changed everything. Right now games are being made around RMT (not the other way around) and its doing no good for the genre.

    Gold sellers will always be a problem - They will also undercut the 'sanctioned' way. 

     

    Regardless, RMT in an MMO is a negative to the game and the consumer.

  • TbauTbau Chicago, ILPosts: 401Member
    Originally posted by Jacxolope

    -It isnt the same...

    Besides that, the gold sellers are cheaper anyhow- At least a few years ago when EQ 2 had the legal gold selling between players. I was astounded to find out that although they condoned selling real items (including gold) you would be banned if caught going 'outside the market'- Which oddly was around 50% of the cost from the 'legal and sanctioned' way.

    I would rather they did away with gold selling period and if caught you would be banned.

    When "real money' came into gaming it changed everything. Right now games are being made around RMT (not the other way around) and its doing no good for the genre.

    Gold sellers will always be a problem - They will also undercut the 'sanctioned' way. 

     

    Regardless, RMT in an MMO is a negative to the game and the consumer.

    That it is not the same is subjective.

    Gold sellers drastically alter the in game economies and drastically increase the costs of everything in game. Its going to be done. As I said, I would rather the money go to the company making the game for reinvestment and as I recall NCSoft is making plenty of continual revenue on GW2 to keep making a profit which means many players are choosing to buy from them over gold sellers.

  • andre369andre369 .Posts: 946Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tbau
    Originally posted by Jacxolope

    -It isnt the same...

    Besides that, the gold sellers are cheaper anyhow- At least a few years ago when EQ 2 had the legal gold selling between players. I was astounded to find out that although they condoned selling real items (including gold) you would be banned if caught going 'outside the market'- Which oddly was around 50% of the cost from the 'legal and sanctioned' way.

    I would rather they did away with gold selling period and if caught you would be banned.

    When "real money' came into gaming it changed everything. Right now games are being made around RMT (not the other way around) and its doing no good for the genre.

    Gold sellers will always be a problem - They will also undercut the 'sanctioned' way. 

     

    Regardless, RMT in an MMO is a negative to the game and the consumer.

    That it is not the same is subjective.

    Gold sellers drastically alter the in game economies and drastically increase the costs of everything in game. Its going to be done. As I said, I would rather the money go to the company making the game for reinvestment and as I recall NCSoft is making plenty of continual revenue on GW2 to keep making a profit which means many players are choosing to buy from them over gold sellers.

    And in return the game is half the experience it could of been. At least for me. There's plenty of flaws in the game. But if it had a sub fee and was not designed around people buying currency it would of been better of as a game. Would it been  so popular? Probably not, would it be a better game? Ye, by a long shot. 

    So you basically defend developers/ the CEO's getting their huge pay check to make a sub par game experience? 

    Wouldn't you rather have a better experience and a game you could actually care about in the long term?

    Do you really want this trend going? It's only going to get worse and worse, since people seem to accept it.

    The current generation of teens, grow up with free to play shit games that are buy to play. Imagine in 5+ years, every single game will be like those mobile games. 

    It's the start of a really bad circle, and if this continues it will just get worse. 

    W/e company has the right to develop and design a game however they want, but that does not mean the customers have to accept it. 

    It all comes down to how everyone spends their money, if every one started playing candy something saga or whatever it's called. What games would the competitors and other companies start to make? 

     

  • TbauTbau Chicago, ILPosts: 401Member
    Originally posted by andre369

    And in return the game is half the experience it could of been. At least for me. There's plenty of flaws in the game. But if it had a sub fee and was not designed around people buying currency it would of been better of as a game. Would it been  so popular? Probably not, would it be a better game? Ye, by a long shot. 

    So you basically defend developers/ the CEO's getting their huge pay check to make a sub par game experience? 

    Wouldn't you rather have a better experience and a game you could actually care about in the long term?

    Do you really want this trend going? It's only going to get worse and worse, since people seem to accept it.

    The current generation of teens, grow up with free to play shit games that are buy to play. Imagine in 5+ years, every single game will be like those mobile games. 

    It's the start of a really bad circle, and if this continues it will just get worse. 

    W/e company has the right to develop and design a game however they want, but that does not mean the customers have to accept it. 

    It all comes down to how everyone spends their money, if every one started playing candy something saga or whatever it's called. What games would the competitors and other companies start to make? 

     

    Don't see how if you look at the first Guild Wars. it had little for PvE and was centered around PvP endgame. If anything, they vastly expanded the experiences while still being B2P, not to mention the constant updates.

    So, we could continue and get into all of the games that did not offer the ability to buy in game currency that turned to be horrible games as a counter to what you are saying, or just admit that your premise is wrong and either try again with a new one, or continue the cycle again and get no where.

  • Kaijin2k3Kaijin2k3 Santa Monica, CAPosts: 558Member

    Yes.

    I agree with you. Once a game is developed with a cash shop in mind, they will try to do what they can to heavily encourage using it. They will avoid making it required, but they will do what they need to do - including manipulating the game world whether by altering prices, drops, or offering inferior (even aesthetically) alternatives - in order to encourage as many people to go through their cash shop.

    All i can think of is Aion near launch. Many of the subscribers back then  really wanted pure black and white dye, and the event gift outs were successfully received. So of course they offered it eventually... in their cash shop (this was pre 1.9 and long before it went f2p).

    It's very simple business, and I've no ill will against them.

    But it's definitely going to stay because - whether you agree with it or not - there is a viable group of people that are quite happy to pay the extra cash. And a small portion of them are quite happy to drop a rather large excess of said cash.

    Of course, some companies are manage their shops differently than others, some are closer to that line where it definitely becomes overwhelming, while others keep a safe distance away from it. But I don't think it's ever going to go away now.

     

    EDIT: I also wanted to add... back in Oct for FF14s relaunch, I was leveling Miner and was talking to my crafting friend about all the botters I was running into and reporting, and (shamelessly) gossiping about when I ran into botters that were in the more well-known FCs. She dropped this on me:

    "I don't get why you're still not botting. As you said yourself, you're just getting screwed over since you can't compete with them."

    She said it so nonchalantly. It made me think back in Aion when I spent weeks gathering and selling aether to afford the level 33 Expert set. A lot of the people I grouped with then assumed I was a Kinah buyer, and just started mentioning when they were due for "refills" so out-of-the-blue (they still never believed me that I never bought the damn kinah)

    While it's still somewhat of a "don't talk about this to people you're not close with' type of topic, I'm really feeling like more and more players are feeling OK about it and accepting it, regardless if the devs make it legal or not.

  • timidobservertimidobserver Orlando, FLPosts: 245Member
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by Aeonblades

    It's probably here for good with a lot of games.

     

    I will say that it is the single biggest thing that has driven me away from GW2 over time. The fact that you effectively can't function or have anything nice without spending real cash to buy gems due to inflation and lack of updates to keep inflation in check has ruined the game. Add in the fact that the centralized TP is controlled by a small hand full of TP barons and you have an economy that is in a colossal state of decline with such a large gap between the rich and the poor it might as well be a 3rd world country for the average player.

    Is this post uninformed or is it just me?  I ask because in the few months I haven't been playing, SO much has had to change for this post to be accurate.

    So you can't buy Exotics anymore for a handful of gold?  Have mats gone up in price so much that no one can make things?  Serious inquiry here, what could gems possibly have changed to make this huge gap, and more importantly, how does it affect  you when you can't buy Ascended gear on the TP?

    What it sounds like is that you're upset people have more money to buy things that can't really make them any better than you.  The "third world country" analogy might have legs if this was a game like WoW where you could go to the AH and purchase items several dozen ilvl's higher than you with gold.  But it's GW2.  And again, unless things changed, you can't.

    I highlighted the obvious lie in red.

    Uh, I guess that you haven't made any ascended gear? The entire ascended crafting system is designed to force you into spending gold if you want to get your item faster. For example, there are certain items that are time-gated for crafting, but you can just buy them immediately if you have the gold. Then, the gold prices are so high that you are enticed into buying gold through gems.

    Sure, the option to do it all the hard/slow way is there, but the system was designed the way that it was to entice player into just buying gold to get what they need faster. Particularly if you have a number of alts. Farming ascended gear for all of them simply isn't realistic in terms of time required or gold required. Then with the wild way they are nerfing and buff gear, you end up having to buy more ascended gear because they made your previous set utterly useless. One example of this is celestial gear, which is set to become completely useless soon.

    The OP is correct that the game is driven by the Cash Shop. Honestly, Anet's Cash Shop isn't as vile as the typical F2P Cash Shop, but it is still a Cash Shop. It started out okayish because it was strictly not P2W, but it is slowly becoming more P2W. An example of it becoming P2W are the new P2W harvesting tools that give you extra stuff if you use them.

    They do a lot of subtle things to try to push people into buying gems. The WvW seasons are another example where basically you pay to swap servers in order to get a better chance at  the rewards at the end of the season, and then you pay again to swap back to your home server once the season it over. Then you pay again to swap once another season starts. 

    I personally am going to be playing ESO because it has no Cash Shop ATM. I will cancel my sub the moment they put one in. 

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,209Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by andre369
    Originally posted by Tbau
    Originally posted by Jacxolope

    -It isnt the same...

    Besides that, the gold sellers are cheaper anyhow- At least a few years ago when EQ 2 had the legal gold selling between players. I was astounded to find out that although they condoned selling real items (including gold) you would be banned if caught going 'outside the market'- Which oddly was around 50% of the cost from the 'legal and sanctioned' way.

    I would rather they did away with gold selling period and if caught you would be banned.

    When "real money' came into gaming it changed everything. Right now games are being made around RMT (not the other way around) and its doing no good for the genre.

    Gold sellers will always be a problem - They will also undercut the 'sanctioned' way. 

     

    Regardless, RMT in an MMO is a negative to the game and the consumer.

    That it is not the same is subjective.

    Gold sellers drastically alter the in game economies and drastically increase the costs of everything in game. Its going to be done. As I said, I would rather the money go to the company making the game for reinvestment and as I recall NCSoft is making plenty of continual revenue on GW2 to keep making a profit which means many players are choosing to buy from them over gold sellers.

    And in return the game is half the experience it could of been. At least for me. There's plenty of flaws in the game. But if it had a sub fee and was not designed around people buying currency it would of been better of as a game. Would it been  so popular? Probably not, would it be a better game? Ye, by a long shot. 

    A sub fee has nothing to do with it. You can buy ISK in EVE with money.

    People have been buying gold for ever since there was online gaming. People have been controlling markets and resources for as long. This isn't a new thing. It's a new twist on an old thing.

    I'm not really sure I agree with the premise that you're forced to buy gems > gold to enjoy the game. I don't and I enjoy it.

  • andre369andre369 .Posts: 946Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by timidobserver
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by Aeonblades

    It's probably here for good with a lot of games.

     

    I will say that it is the single biggest thing that has driven me away from GW2 over time. The fact that you effectively can't function or have anything nice without spending real cash to buy gems due to inflation and lack of updates to keep inflation in check has ruined the game. Add in the fact that the centralized TP is controlled by a small hand full of TP barons and you have an economy that is in a colossal state of decline with such a large gap between the rich and the poor it might as well be a 3rd world country for the average player.

    Is this post uninformed or is it just me?  I ask because in the few months I haven't been playing, SO much has had to change for this post to be accurate.

    So you can't buy Exotics anymore for a handful of gold?  Have mats gone up in price so much that no one can make things?  Serious inquiry here, what could gems possibly have changed to make this huge gap, and more importantly, how does it affect  you when you can't buy Ascended gear on the TP?

    What it sounds like is that you're upset people have more money to buy things that can't really make them any better than you.  The "third world country" analogy might have legs if this was a game like WoW where you could go to the AH and purchase items several dozen ilvl's higher than you with gold.  But it's GW2.  And again, unless things changed, you can't.

    I highlighted the obvious lie in red.

    Uh, I guess that you haven't made any ascended gear? The entire ascended crafting system is designed to force you into spending gold if you want to get your item faster. For example, there are certain items that are time-gated for crafting, but you can just buy them immediately if you have the gold. Then, the gold prices are so high that you are enticed into buying gold through gems.

    Sure, the option to do it all the hard/slow way is there, but the system was designed the way that it was to entice player into just buying gold to get what they need faster. Particularly if you have a number of alts. Farming ascended gear for all of them simply isn't realistic in terms of time required or gold required. Then with the wild way they are nerfing and buff gear, you end up having to buy more ascended gear because they made your previous set utterly useless. One example of this is celestial gear, which is set to become completely useless soon.

    The OP is correct that the game is driven by the Cash Shop. Honestly, Anet's Cash Shop isn't as vile as the typical F2P Cash Shop, but it is still a Cash Shop. It started out okayish because it was strictly not P2W, but it is slowly becoming more P2W. An example of it becoming P2W are the new P2W harvesting tools that give you extra stuff if you use them.

    They do a lot of subtle things to try to push people into buying gems. The WvW seasons are another example where basically you pay to swap servers in order to get a better chance at  the rewards at the end of the season, and then you pay again to swap back to your home server once the season it over. Then you pay again to swap once another season starts. 

    I personally am going to be playing ESO because it has no Cash Shop ATM. I will cancel my sub the moment they put one in. 

    I have to disagree with that statement, If you buy these harvesting kits you will pretty much never ever make it even compared to the pure cost of gems/gold to obtain it.

  • zekeofevzekeofev Mesa, AZPosts: 233Member

    The RMT won the war. They proved that it costs a company more to fight them then it does to join them.

     

    The best way to fight RMT is to sell the content yourself as a developer. Want that GW2 rare sword? 20 bucks or 20 hours of gameplay. It effectively hurts RMT and causes players that would buy gold or items from RMT to buy it from the devs instead.

     

    I blame the players that want to pay to skip content in a game. I also somewhat blame developers that put pure grind content in games that people want to skip.

     

     

    Our MMOs will not be virtual worlds anymore. See the guy with the Shiny awesome looking items? Its not the crazy quests he did or the impossible quests he did. He just had a thicker wallet. Money/cash shops are intrinsically tied to gameplay now.

     

    Even great RPGs like the Final Fantasy 7  re-released on steam have noticed this trend. You can spend money for healing and extra gil from the developer. Seriously, go look it up.

     

    I mean I guess its what the market wants because it is what it is buying.....but I wish the industry would spend its effort to producing better games rather than designing better ways of parting impulse buyers from there cash in the guise of gameplay.

     

    I feel like my game industry sold out on me. So many developers lost my respect.

  • timidobservertimidobserver Orlando, FLPosts: 245Member
    Originally posted by andre369
    Originally posted by timidobserver
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by Aeonblades

    It's probably here for good with a lot of games.

     

    I will say that it is the single biggest thing that has driven me away from GW2 over time. The fact that you effectively can't function or have anything nice without spending real cash to buy gems due to inflation and lack of updates to keep inflation in check has ruined the game. Add in the fact that the centralized TP is controlled by a small hand full of TP barons and you have an economy that is in a colossal state of decline with such a large gap between the rich and the poor it might as well be a 3rd world country for the average player.

    Is this post uninformed or is it just me?  I ask because in the few months I haven't been playing, SO much has had to change for this post to be accurate.

    So you can't buy Exotics anymore for a handful of gold?  Have mats gone up in price so much that no one can make things?  Serious inquiry here, what could gems possibly have changed to make this huge gap, and more importantly, how does it affect  you when you can't buy Ascended gear on the TP?

    What it sounds like is that you're upset people have more money to buy things that can't really make them any better than you.  The "third world country" analogy might have legs if this was a game like WoW where you could go to the AH and purchase items several dozen ilvl's higher than you with gold.  But it's GW2.  And again, unless things changed, you can't.

    I highlighted the obvious lie in red.

    Uh, I guess that you haven't made any ascended gear? The entire ascended crafting system is designed to force you into spending gold if you want to get your item faster. For example, there are certain items that are time-gated for crafting, but you can just buy them immediately if you have the gold. Then, the gold prices are so high that you are enticed into buying gold through gems.

    Sure, the option to do it all the hard/slow way is there, but the system was designed the way that it was to entice player into just buying gold to get what they need faster. Particularly if you have a number of alts. Farming ascended gear for all of them simply isn't realistic in terms of time required or gold required. Then with the wild way they are nerfing and buff gear, you end up having to buy more ascended gear because they made your previous set utterly useless. One example of this is celestial gear, which is set to become completely useless soon.

    The OP is correct that the game is driven by the Cash Shop. Honestly, Anet's Cash Shop isn't as vile as the typical F2P Cash Shop, but it is still a Cash Shop. It started out okayish because it was strictly not P2W, but it is slowly becoming more P2W. An example of it becoming P2W are the new P2W harvesting tools that give you extra stuff if you use them.

    They do a lot of subtle things to try to push people into buying gems. The WvW seasons are another example where basically you pay to swap servers in order to get a better chance at  the rewards at the end of the season, and then you pay again to swap back to your home server once the season it over. Then you pay again to swap once another season starts. 

    I personally am going to be playing ESO because it has no Cash Shop ATM. I will cancel my sub the moment they put one in. 

    I have to disagree with that statement, If you buy these harvesting kits you will pretty much never ever make it even compared to the pure cost of gems/gold to obtain it.

    Regardless, spending money provides you the ability to exclusively harvest something that other people can't. As for the value of them, the GW2 economy fluctuates violently with limited-time items. Who knows what sprockets might be worth in a year. 

    Though, this particular item isn't as much of a problem as the precedent that it sets. Before this item, the GW2 Cash shop strictly avoided all forms of direct P2W. There was somewhat indirect P2W, but this is the first instance of direct "pay us and you will instantly be better at something than players that don't pay us." Now, you can purchase the ability to harvest better than other people. 

     

  • zekeofevzekeofev Mesa, AZPosts: 233Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by andre369
    Originally posted by Tbau
    Originally posted by Jacxolope

    -It isnt the same...

    Besides that, the gold sellers are cheaper anyhow- At least a few years ago when EQ 2 had the legal gold selling between players. I was astounded to find out that although they condoned selling real items (including gold) you would be banned if caught going 'outside the market'- Which oddly was around 50% of the cost from the 'legal and sanctioned' way.

    I would rather they did away with gold selling period and if caught you would be banned.

    When "real money' came into gaming it changed everything. Right now games are being made around RMT (not the other way around) and its doing no good for the genre.

    Gold sellers will always be a problem - They will also undercut the 'sanctioned' way. 

     

    Regardless, RMT in an MMO is a negative to the game and the consumer.

    That it is not the same is subjective.

    Gold sellers drastically alter the in game economies and drastically increase the costs of everything in game. Its going to be done. As I said, I would rather the money go to the company making the game for reinvestment and as I recall NCSoft is making plenty of continual revenue on GW2 to keep making a profit which means many players are choosing to buy from them over gold sellers.

    And in return the game is half the experience it could of been. At least for me. There's plenty of flaws in the game. But if it had a sub fee and was not designed around people buying currency it would of been better of as a game. Would it been  so popular? Probably not, would it be a better game? Ye, by a long shot. 

    A sub fee has nothing to do with it. You can buy ISK in EVE with money.

    People have been buying gold for ever since there was online gaming. People have been controlling markets and resources for as long. This isn't a new thing. It's a new twist on an old thing.

    I'm not really sure I agree with the premise that you're forced to buy gems > gold to enjoy the game. I don't and I enjoy it.

    True but I wish the developers would of tried to combat RMT more effectively. It is true even in the old days you could usually buy game currency for real money but it was not a main design point of the game and the players that did so were shunned. Now it is so pervasive that it is part of the experience and developers push it at you themselves. In many free to play titles the gameplay suffers because of how much the cash shop is pushed into your face.

     

    A good game as measured by developers is one that attacks the human mind to get people to spend money rather than to build a brand and produce a solid gameplay experience. Mobile games like Dungeon Keeper from EA or browser games like League Of Angels are much more about mindset manipulation rather than engaging gameplay.

     

    I wish we had found a way to lock out money from our virtual worlds. Now our virtual worlds are filled with interuptions of gameplay to get us to spend money. Just wait this 12 hours....or spend 2 bucks. Just regen this stamina or spend 5 bucks. You can get sword of awesome +10 if you grind 50 hours....or spend 40 bucks. This trend sickens me.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,209Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zekeofev

    True but I wish the developers would of tried to combat RMT more effectively. It is true even in the old days you could usually buy game currency for real money but it was not a main design point of the game and the players that did so were shunned. Now it is so pervasive that it is part of the experience and developers push it at you themselves. In many free to play titles the gameplay suffers because of how much the cash shop is pushed into your face.

    A good game as measured by developers is one that attacks the human mind to get people to spend money rather than to build a brand and produce a solid gameplay experience. Mobile games like Dungeon Keeper from EA or browser games like League Of Angels are much more about mindset manipulation rather than engaging gameplay.

    I wish we had found a way to lock out money from our virtual worlds. Now our virtual worlds are filled with interuptions of gameplay to get us to spend money. Just wait this 12 hours....or spend 2 bucks. Just regen this stamina or spend 5 bucks. You can get sword of awesome +10 if you grind 50 hours....or spend 40 bucks. This trend sickens me.

    They tried to combat it unsuccessfully for the last 15 years or so. Overall, I don't think it was for a lack of trying. It was like trying to paddle upstream with a fork. I also don't think players were or are as shunned as we said publicly. If it was really that big of a social no no with a heavy stigma then I think it wouldn't be as rampant as it is.

    Dungeon Keeper and League of Angels are the fringe, not the norm. I'm not going to draw broad generalizations, especially based on those games. Some games do have horrific design or models. Don't play those games. On the other hand, all companies need to make money. Don't be cheap and not support your games (F2P, B2P, P2P - it doesn't matter). That should be our perspective to keeping games we like funded and letting the industry as a whole know what we don't like.

    The problem is that time is a currency. So even if you rid games of virtual currencies, you can't rid them of time currency unless you limit and restrict the benefits of that as well. Again, it comes down to just saying no and not playing games that over-monetize timeclocks and limitations.

  • zekeofevzekeofev Mesa, AZPosts: 233Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by zekeofev

    True but I wish the developers would of tried to combat RMT more effectively. It is true even in the old days you could usually buy game currency for real money but it was not a main design point of the game and the players that did so were shunned. Now it is so pervasive that it is part of the experience and developers push it at you themselves. In many free to play titles the gameplay suffers because of how much the cash shop is pushed into your face.

    A good game as measured by developers is one that attacks the human mind to get people to spend money rather than to build a brand and produce a solid gameplay experience. Mobile games like Dungeon Keeper from EA or browser games like League Of Angels are much more about mindset manipulation rather than engaging gameplay.

    I wish we had found a way to lock out money from our virtual worlds. Now our virtual worlds are filled with interuptions of gameplay to get us to spend money. Just wait this 12 hours....or spend 2 bucks. Just regen this stamina or spend 5 bucks. You can get sword of awesome +10 if you grind 50 hours....or spend 40 bucks. This trend sickens me.

    They tried to combat it unsuccessfully for the last 15 years or so. Overall, I don't think it was for a lack of trying. It was like trying to paddle upstream with a fork. I also don't think players were or are as shunned as we said publicly. If it was really that big of a social no no with a heavy stigma then I think it wouldn't be as rampant as it is.

    Dungeon Keeper and League of Angels are the fringe, not the norm. I'm not going to draw broad generalizations, especially based on those games. Some games do have horrific design or models. Don't play those games. On the other hand, all companies need to make money. Don't be cheap and not support your games (F2P, B2P, P2P - it doesn't matter). That should be our perspective to keeping games we like funded and letting the industry as a whole know what we don't like.

    The problem is that time is a currency. So even if you rid games of virtual currencies, you can't rid them of time currency unless you limit and restrict the benefits of that as well. Again, it comes down to just saying no and not playing games that over-monetize timeclocks and limitations.

    But that is the problem...... It is no secret that game companies often hire psychologists (or consult them) in the making of their cash shop or method of monetizing.

     

    I think games are improving in the wrong direction. Seen way too many people spend so much money on a game they end up quitting a week later. Its not really about supporting your favorite game anymore. Its not even about finding a game you like. Game developers do not build a game for gamers anymore...they build a automated cash milker with just enough parts of a game to get you to drop a few bucks.

     

    I also think the fringe FTP games will be the new norm as it has been trending worse. 10 years ago we did not have box fee, sub fee, cash shop all in one game. Now we do. Games like League of Angels and Dungeon Keeper made a ton of money despite horrible reviews. There are too many suckers who fall for P2W money traps that it will continue to cause these games (well they are just barely games. Barely) to be made.

     

    I totally agree with you to support a game you like so that more games of that type are made but,  I think development studios are realizing that cheap crappy games with a cash shop generate more revenue especially for the cost to make that type or product.... And that is sad.

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