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Do you think ESO will eventually give in to the F2P or B2P model?

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Comments

  • FaustusIVFaustusIV BirminghamPosts: 49Member
    Originally posted by Krampus
    Originally posted by FaustusIV
    Originally posted by Krampus

    For a lot of you complaining about paying a monthly sub I don't understand it. It'll cost you $60 for the box price and you get the first month free. According to many play testers it'll take you between 80-150 hours of game time to hit max level of 50. How many single player games give you that much? After the first month just cancel your sub and it'll cost you just  the box price  to play a game that gave you that much entertainment.

     

     

     

     

    And even if the quote of 80 - 150 hours is remotely true, it's nothing to write home about....I got 85 hours out of DAO and I currently have over 140 hours on Dark Souls without even completing my first play through.

     All I can is that the RvR endgame had better be something stupendously good, I mean industry defining else subs will quit in droves after the first 3 months. This game is aimed at PvP endgame. Competetive PvPers are notoriously fickle and will jump ship without a second thought as soon as the next shiny comes along.

     

    So you got 85 hours out of DAO, did you complain about the box price? Like I said game testers have said it takes about 80-150 hours to hit level 50 depending on your play style. So even if you did hit max at 80 hours that would put it  right there with your experience on DAO. So for 60 bucks it's on par with other single player RPGs then. Also the AvAvA is as good as advertised.

     

     

    Except DAO did not try to fleece me with pay gated races and did not expect me to pay a monthly sub.

     

    For the box price in ESO you seem to be getting the same amount of hours as you get with the average single player RPG. So what is the sub for? Just the PvP endgame? Is it worth the monthly sub just for that?

     

    Or is the sub to cover the wealth of content that will provided moving forward? Oh wait, the cash shop will handle all that sort of stuff. So perhaps the sub is to cover the annual boxed expansions if they do them? No cus they will charge you separately for those too...

     

    I have no problem with subs and actually prefer them in principle, but only if I can see some value in them. With the premium price point, pay gated content, monthly sub and incoming cash shop ESO is just too damn expensive for the content it provides. This is why so many people see it as a cash grab I guess.

  • KrampusKrampus Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 17Member
    Originally posted by Righteous_Rock
    Originally posted by Krampus

    For a lot of you complaining about paying a monthly sub I don't understand it. It'll cost you $ for the box price and you get the first month free. According to many play testers it'll take you between 80-150 hours of game time to hit max level of 50. How many single player games give you that much? After the first month just cancel your sub and it'll cost you just  the box price  to play a game that gave you that much entertainment.

     

     

     

    Wrong Attitude! Look at all other games, ESO is nothing special and many would say it needs a lot of help. It's no where near worth a box price and sub. The reasons why all subjective of course, but how long will you people be walked all over.

    I guess I'm willing to be walked over for awhile then. I've played in the last 3 betas and after the second one I'm sold. From what I have seen and played it's worth a box price and sub from me.

  • KrampusKrampus Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 17Member
    Originally posted by FaustusIV
    Originally posted by Krampus
    Originally posted by FaustusIV
    Originally posted by Krampus

    For a lot of you complaining about paying a monthly sub I don't understand it. It'll cost you $60 for the box price and you get the first month free. According to many play testers it'll take you between 80-150 hours of game time to hit max level of 50. How many single player games give you that much? After the first month just cancel your sub and it'll cost you just  the box price  to play a game that gave you that much entertainment.

     

     

     

     

    And even if the quote of 80 - 150 hours is remotely true, it's nothing to write home about....I got 85 hours out of DAO and I currently have over 140 hours on Dark Souls without even completing my first play through.

     All I can is that the RvR endgame had better be something stupendously good, I mean industry defining else subs will quit in droves after the first 3 months. This game is aimed at PvP endgame. Competetive PvPers are notoriously fickle and will jump ship without a second thought as soon as the next shiny comes along.

     

    So you got 85 hours out of DAO, did you complain about the box price? Like I said game testers have said it takes about 80-150 hours to hit level 50 depending on your play style. So even if you did hit max at 80 hours that would put it  right there with your experience on DAO. So for 60 bucks it's on par with other single player RPGs then. Also the AvAvA is as good as advertised.

     

     

    Except DAO did not try to fleece me with pay gated races and did not expect me to pay a monthly sub.

     

    For the box price in ESO you seem to be getting the same amount of hours as you get with the average single player RPG. So what is the sub for? Just the PvP endgame? Is it worth the monthly sub just for that?

     

    Or is the sub to cover the wealth of content that will provided moving forward? Oh wait, the cash shop will handle all that sort of stuff. So perhaps the sub is to cover the annual boxed expansions if they do them? No cus they will charge you separately for those too...

     

    I have no problem with subs and actually prefer them in principle, but only if I can see some value in them. With the premium price point, pay gated content, monthly sub and incoming cash shop ESO is just too damn expensive for the content it provides. This is why so many people see it as a cash grab I guess.

     

     

    My point was you could just cancel your sub after your trial month and what you got was a great gaming experience that won't cost  you anything more than the box price. Thought we talked about this already. At 80-150 hours to reach  max level that puts it on par with your experience of DAO play thru.

  • bigbudzbigbudz O Fallon, ILPosts: 52Member

    I don't need it to go to FTP to be able to play it. I'm not poor or cheap. Every FTP game that I have tried has went out the window as I cannot stand microtrans. It makes me feel like the pub is holding me in the corner demanding more and more money for access. If you like playing a game, then why would some of you be so against supporting the game? 15 bucks a month these days is really a small number. Equivalent to the price of a movie ticket or a meal in exchange for several hours of enjoyment. Sad thing is most of you prolly don't blink an eye when you have to pay 9.95 to unlock a race in a ftp.

     

    I like the game as it stands and will pay my sub fee. If it goes ftp, I'll just remove my account and play something that doesn't have a microtrans paywall.

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  • Righteous_RockRighteous_Rock Youngstown, OHPosts: 495Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Krampus

    Originally posted by Righteous_Rock
    Originally posted by Krampus
    For a lot of you complaining about paying a monthly sub I don't understand it. It'll cost you $ for the box price and you get the first month free. According to many play testers it'll take you between 80-150 hours of game time to hit max level of 50. How many single player games give you that much? After the first month just cancel your sub and it'll cost you just  the box price  to play a game that gave you that much entertainment.    

     

    Wrong Attitude! Look at all other games, ESO is nothing special and many would say it needs a lot of help. It's no where near worth a box price and sub. The reasons why all subjective of course, but how long will you people be walked all over.

    I guess I'm willing to be walked over for awhile then. I've played in the last 3 betas and after the second one I'm sold. From what I have seen and played it's worth a box price and sub from me.

     

    Lol well let me know when you're ready to buy a car, I got a great deal for you.
  • Sk1ppeRSk1ppeR PlovdivPosts: 511Member
    Originally posted by bigbudz

    I don't need it to go to FTP to be able to play it. I'm not poor or cheap. Every FTP game that I have tried has went out the window as I cannot stand microtrans. It makes me feel like the pub is holding me in the corner demanding more and more money for access. If you like playing a game, then why would some of you be so against supporting the game? 15 bucks a month these days is really a small number. Equivalent to the price of a movie ticket or a meal in exchange for several hours of enjoyment. Sad thing is most of you prolly don't blink an eye when you have to pay 9.95 to unlock a race in a ftp.

     

    I like the game as it stands and will pay my sub fee. If it goes ftp, I'll just remove my account and play something that doesn't have a microtrans paywall.

    Then you've played all the wrong games, nothing more to add to that. Also that you are a bit delusional here and overreacting. 

  • PednickPednick Oshawa, ONPosts: 26Member
    Originally posted by bigbudz
    I like the game as it stands and will pay my sub fee. If it goes ftp, I'll just remove my account and play something that doesn't have a microtrans paywall.

    Then just do that d00d, no one cares if you cancel your account. You seem more concerned to prejudge people on this so called monetary status than the game itself, that's just anal-retentive.

    "An it harm none, do what thou wilt"

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    warhammer didn't...

     

    it depends if the game's good or not. good games work under any payment model. bad games don't work under any payment model. 

    Umm then i guess other than WOW we never had a single good game? is that what you are trying to say here?

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
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  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,171Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kattycake

    Just gonna keep this short;

    A lot of people, so I've seen/heard from, believe that ESO will turn into what SWTOR once did. TERA switched, The Secret World switched, Rift...etc.

    Do you think dishing $15/mo will be a bit much to some players? I mean even ArcheAge in RU Beta is $9/mo for premium.

    if it is a good game: no.

    if it is a good game: sub+ fluff shop

    if it is a bad game: yes.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • TbauTbau Chicago, ILPosts: 401Member
    Originally posted by Kattycake

    Just gonna keep this short;

    A lot of people, so I've seen/heard from, believe that ESO will turn into what SWTOR once did. TERA switched, The Secret World switched, Rift...etc.

    Do you think dishing $15/mo will be a bit much to some players? I mean even ArcheAge in RU Beta is $9/mo for premium.

    Yes I do believe it will, cant say if it will be quickly or take years just yet. It will come down to total sales, player retention and corporate expectations.

    The main reason I believe it will is the corporate factor. We have no idea just how much the parent company is expecting, I am sure it is high since they allowed the use of the IP, but how high we have no idea.

    The game could sell 4 million copies making it one of the top selling MMOs of all time but if the corporation was expecting 6 million, they can force a F2P switch. Same with if the corporation expects 2 million subscriptions, but it drops below because many leave the game.

    In essence that does make it like SWTOR. It sold over 2 million copies which places in near the top of the MMO sales chain, debatably kept around half of those players yet went F2P because EA required more.

  • Mackaveli44Mackaveli44 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 151Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gravarg

    There's no way to tell.  That's up to Zenimax...I hope it never does.  I liked Rift, played it until it went F2P.  Then I dropped it like a bad habit.  I will never play a F2P, nickel and dime MMO.  If it comes to a point where there are no F2P MMOs, then I guess my long relationship with MMOs is over.

     

    To all the entitlement babies, I'm glad it's P2P.  It keeps people like you out of the game.  If you can't afford $0.50 a day, you shouldn't be playing games, you should go get another job.

    Im with you on that man.  People who complain about paying a sub seriously need to get their heads out of their asses and get a damn job.  F2P games are TERRIBLE in almost every aspect.  Quality, quantity, you get a bunch of washed up bitter kiddies bitching about everything.  

     

    Stay as a Sub and Ill play you as long as Im having fun(which in ESO's case is LOT).  I know 1 big thing alot of ppl who are complaining about the game, they have inadaquate time playing the game to truly get a good impression of it.  This game blossoms the more you play it... It truly is something special.

  • TondagonTondagon Vancouver, BCPosts: 19Member

    People really need to realize that the F2P model is not designed for western MMO's and their players. It was originally designed for the eastern market which has a completely different business model and players with a generally much higher predilection for, and tolerance of in game gambling.

    The adoption of it in the west has led to a glut of poorly implemented and unsustainable business models, leading to a saturation of the market with games that people have no vested interest in, nor commitment to. Both of which are necessary for a MMO to retain a viable population level within the game, allowing for continued development and profit.

    In addition the F2P model has created an entitlement mindset among many MMO players. "Why should I pay for game A, when game B is allowing me to play for "free". Not taking into consideration that game A has a far higher production value and includes everything which is available within the game. While game B is designed so that you will only see it's limitations after you pass through several content pay gates.

    The F2P model has also fostered the notion in some game companies that it is acceptable to take multiple dips into players wallets with subscriptions, cash shops, etc. This is completely unacceptable, and people need to let game companies know it.

    Thankfully, the F2P model is beginning to self destruct as more and more players see it for what it is, and vote with their wallets for better business models.

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tondagon

    People really need to realize that the F2P model is not designed for western MMO's and their players. It was originally designed for the eastern market which has a completely different business model and players with a generally much higher predilection for, and tolerance of in game gambling.

    The adoption of it in the west has led to a glut of poorly implemented and unsustainable business models, leading to a saturation of the market with games that people have no vested interest in, nor commitment to. Both of which are necessary for a MMO to retain a viable population level within the game, allowing for continued development and profit.

    In addition the F2P model has created an entitlement mindset among many MMO players. "Why should I pay for game A, when game B is allowing me to play for "free". Not taking into consideration that game A has a far higher production value and includes everything which is available within the game. While game B is designed so that you will only see it's limitations after you pass through several content pay gates.

    The F2P model has also fostered the notion in some game companies that it is acceptable to take multiple dips into players wallets with subscriptions, cash shops, etc. This is completely unacceptable, and people need to let game companies know it.

    Thankfully, the F2P model is beginning to self destruct as more and more players see it for what it is, and vote with their wallets for better business models.

    Another personal opinion being masqueraded as fact i see.

  • TbauTbau Chicago, ILPosts: 401Member
    Originally posted by Tondagon

    People really need to realize that the F2P model is not designed for western MMO's and their players. It was originally designed for the eastern market which has a completely different business model and players with a generally much higher predilection for, and tolerance of in game gambling.

    We don't have F2P in the west. We have freemium games and they are doing fine.

  • TondagonTondagon Vancouver, BCPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Tondagon

    People really need to realize that the F2P model is not designed for western MMO's and their players. It was originally designed for the eastern market which has a completely different business model and players with a generally much higher predilection for, and tolerance of in game gambling.

    The adoption of it in the west has led to a glut of poorly implemented and unsustainable business models, leading to a saturation of the market with games that people have no vested interest in, nor commitment to. Both of which are necessary for a MMO to retain a viable population level within the game, allowing for continued development and profit.

    In addition the F2P model has created an entitlement mindset among many MMO players. "Why should I pay for game A, when game B is allowing me to play for "free". Not taking into consideration that game A has a far higher production value and includes everything which is available within the game. While game B is designed so that you will only see it's limitations after you pass through several content pay gates.

    The F2P model has also fostered the notion in some game companies that it is acceptable to take multiple dips into players wallets with subscriptions, cash shops, etc. This is completely unacceptable, and people need to let game companies know it.

    Thankfully, the F2P model is beginning to self destruct as more and more players see it for what it is, and vote with their wallets for better business models.

    Another personal opinion being masqueraded as fact i see.

    Watch and see what happens in the next few years.

     

  • angerbeaverangerbeaver Dorval, QCPosts: 869Member Uncommon
    F2P
  • Sk1ppeRSk1ppeR PlovdivPosts: 511Member
    Originally posted by Tondagon

    People really need to realize that the F2P model is not designed for western MMO's and their players. It was originally designed for the eastern market which has a completely different business model and players with a generally much higher predilection for, and tolerance of in game gambling.

    The adoption of it in the west has led to a glut of poorly implemented and unsustainable business models, leading to a saturation of the market with games that people have no vested interest in, nor commitment to. Both of which are necessary for a MMO to retain a viable population level within the game, allowing for continued development and profit.

    In addition the F2P model has created an entitlement mindset among many MMO players. "Why should I pay for game A, when game B is allowing me to play for "free". Not taking into consideration that game A has a far higher production value and includes everything which is available within the game. While game B is designed so that you will only see it's limitations after you pass through several content pay gates.

    The F2P model has also fostered the notion in some game companies that it is acceptable to take multiple dips into players wallets with subscriptions, cash shops, etc. This is completely unacceptable, and people need to let game companies know it.

    Thankfully, the F2P model is beginning to self destruct as more and more players see it for what it is, and vote with their wallets for better business models.

    Yes, please tell me how Gw2 was designed for the chinese market from the get go :) Or Neverwinter in that regard. 

    Also do tell me how TESO has higher production value than Gw2 or SWTOR or Tera? Are they using a better graphics engine? No, they licensed a crappy one, and it will show. Are their animations life-like? Have you ever heard the joke about the carrot and the butthole? :) What about armor design and armor variety? How exactly TESO has a higher production value than games like Rift, Tera, SWTOR, TSW? Sure ... they sunk some millions of dollars for voice overs of AA actors, but in the ends whats the point in all this if players are mostly just going to skip through conversations? Does the game have any notable special effects? Cinematic effects? 

    You need to stop boohoo the old phrase that if its free it must suck, because that's a bunch of balooney. I mean sure, games like Scarlet Blade do suck, I agree ... but then again, we have DFUW, which is pretty bad and it has subscription game. How does it have any more production value of the games I listed above? Last I heard it flopped hard. How's that Warhammer Online doing? Oh right ... the game died. What about Tabula Rasa? Oh right ... the game imploded. 

     

    Do you see the trend here? A single subscription fee is not a sign of quality nor it is a sign of value. It's a simple and proficient cash grab from the folks like you. 

    Enjoy it! :) 

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tondagon
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Tondagon

    People really need to realize that the F2P model is not designed for western MMO's and their players. It was originally designed for the eastern market which has a completely different business model and players with a generally much higher predilection for, and tolerance of in game gambling.

    The adoption of it in the west has led to a glut of poorly implemented and unsustainable business models, leading to a saturation of the market with games that people have no vested interest in, nor commitment to. Both of which are necessary for a MMO to retain a viable population level within the game, allowing for continued development and profit.

    In addition the F2P model has created an entitlement mindset among many MMO players. "Why should I pay for game A, when game B is allowing me to play for "free". Not taking into consideration that game A has a far higher production value and includes everything which is available within the game. While game B is designed so that you will only see it's limitations after you pass through several content pay gates.

    The F2P model has also fostered the notion in some game companies that it is acceptable to take multiple dips into players wallets with subscriptions, cash shops, etc. This is completely unacceptable, and people need to let game companies know it.

    Thankfully, the F2P model is beginning to self destruct as more and more players see it for what it is, and vote with their wallets for better business models.

    Another personal opinion being masqueraded as fact i see.

    Watch and see what happens in the next few years.

     

    Looks like another self appointed seer who can see in future. I am sure everyone is gonna believe some random guy on internet because he said so. image

    13 posts which just praise ESO sky high in ever post...seems legit!!

  • TondagonTondagon Vancouver, BCPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Tondagon
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Tondagon

    People really need to realize that the F2P model is not designed for western MMO's and their players. It was originally designed for the eastern market which has a completely different business model and players with a generally much higher predilection for, and tolerance of in game gambling.

    The adoption of it in the west has led to a glut of poorly implemented and unsustainable business models, leading to a saturation of the market with games that people have no vested interest in, nor commitment to. Both of which are necessary for a MMO to retain a viable population level within the game, allowing for continued development and profit.

    In addition the F2P model has created an entitlement mindset among many MMO players. "Why should I pay for game A, when game B is allowing me to play for "free". Not taking into consideration that game A has a far higher production value and includes everything which is available within the game. While game B is designed so that you will only see it's limitations after you pass through several content pay gates.

    The F2P model has also fostered the notion in some game companies that it is acceptable to take multiple dips into players wallets with subscriptions, cash shops, etc. This is completely unacceptable, and people need to let game companies know it.

    Thankfully, the F2P model is beginning to self destruct as more and more players see it for what it is, and vote with their wallets for better business models.

    Another personal opinion being masqueraded as fact i see.

    Watch and see what happens in the next few years.

     

    Looks like another self appointed seer who can see in future. I am sure everyone is gonna believe some random guy on internet because he said so. image

    I didn't say to believe me, I said to keep you own eyes open and watch what happens. Or not, your choice.

    Your damn right I praise this game, I like what I have seen, and have enjoyed playing it. I know this is not a popular  opinion  to wanna be hipsters such as yourself, but it is what it is.

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tondagon

     

    I didn't say to believe me, I said to keep you own eyes open and watch what happens. Or not, your choice.

    So you cant not even back up your claim rather than 'just watch and see'. Here is a little suggestion. if you want to engage in discussion try to atleast make an informed post with some tangible information.

    If you are here just to update status then FB is what you need or maybe a twitter.

    Oh and anyone who doesn't agree with your 'i know the future' posts is a hipster..i see. image

  • TondagonTondagon Vancouver, BCPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Tondagon

     

    I didn't say to believe me, I said to keep you own eyes open and watch what happens. Or not, your choice.

    So you cant not even back up your claim rather than 'just watch and see'. Here is a little suggestion. if you want to engage in discussion try to atleast make an informed post with some tangible information.

    If you are here just to update status then FB is what you need or maybe a twitter.

    Oh and anyone who doesn't agree with your 'i know the future' posts is a hipster..i see. image

    Here is a little suggestion for you, try and actually talk about the issues at hand instead of resorting immediately to personal and ad hominem attacks. At least keep it interesting.

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tondagon
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Tondagon

     

    I didn't say to believe me, I said to keep you own eyes open and watch what happens. Or not, your choice.

    So you cant not even back up your claim rather than 'just watch and see'. Here is a little suggestion. if you want to engage in discussion try to atleast make an informed post with some tangible information.

    If you are here just to update status then FB is what you need or maybe a twitter.

    Oh and anyone who doesn't agree with your 'i know the future' posts is a hipster..i see. image

    Here is a little suggestion for you, try and actually talk about the issues at hand instead of resorting immediately to personal and ad hominem attacks. At least keep it interesting.

    Asking you to not pull stuff out of thin air is personal attacks? truth is you got nothing to back up your claims other than old and rusted 'it will happen because i said so' excuse. And for someone who called me a hipster please dont even try to play the poor victim card.

    You could have easily shut me up with an intelligent response explaining why F2P games are self destructing...but you can not. And honestly i am not surprised.

    New accounts likes yours always appear fast close to release of new game and then disappear equally fast once the job is done. Not my first rodeo here.

  • TondagonTondagon Vancouver, BCPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Tondagon
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Tondagon

     

    I didn't say to believe me, I said to keep you own eyes open and watch what happens. Or not, your choice.

    So you cant not even back up your claim rather than 'just watch and see'. Here is a little suggestion. if you want to engage in discussion try to atleast make an informed post with some tangible information.

    If you are here just to update status then FB is what you need or maybe a twitter.

    Oh and anyone who doesn't agree with your 'i know the future' posts is a hipster..i see. image

    Here is a little suggestion for you, try and actually talk about the issues at hand instead of resorting immediately to personal and ad hominem attacks. At least keep it interesting.

    Asking you to not pull stuff out of thin air is personal attacks? truth is you got nothing to back up your claims other than old and rusted 'it will happen because i said so' excuse. And for someone who called me a hipster please dont even try to play the poor victim card.

    You could have easily shut me up with an intelligent response explaining why F2P games are self destructing...but you can not. And honestly i am not surprised.

    I honestly can't be bothered, it is clear that you are just looking for an argument, and I don't feel inclined to give you the pleasure. So yay! you win, go you.

  • LisaFlexy22LisaFlexy22 mesa, AZPosts: 430Member
    I think any MMO releasing with a sub model these days is doing so with the full intention of cashing in on launch day box sales and high sub numbers for the first few months with full plans on going F2P when the subs start to drop like they always do around a year.  ESO and Wildstar both will go F2P not because of them "failing" but by design.
  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tondagon

    I honestly can't be bothered, it is clear that you are just looking for an argument, and I don't feel inclined to give you the pleasure. So yay! you win, go you.

    Yeah sure. By the way if you just want to post something random and feel special then FB is that way. There nobody would even ask you to explain your point.

    This is a discussion board so ofcourse i expect people to not just make claims but also back it up with some information and provide links etc to atleast give some idea of what you are trying to say.

    Passing off personal opinions as facts isn't what gets you a good discussion but then again that is not why you are here..to have discussions.

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